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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY
Guest Egwene

one word....Asmodean..... ;-)

spigots or caudrens  

114 members have voted

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  1. 1. spigots or caudrens

    • spigots
      24
    • caudrens
      23
    • pie spoon
      45
    • washer woman. shaped washer.
      28


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Additionally' date=' the lack of evidence of a murder strongly indicates a channeler.[/quote']

 

Really? Anybody seen Isendre lately?

 

Kadere's wagon is a tad more isolated and private than the royal palace, eh?

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Guest Egwene

the latest update on our poll since the 24th of April:

 

Graendal: + 11

Lanfear: + 2

Moiraine: +/- 0

Shadar Haran: + 4

Moridin: +/- 0

Another forsaken: + 1

Anyone else: + 9

 

 

a total of 27 new votes. Interesting the large percentage of those new votes for 'anyone else' this time round :roll:

 

Since the beginning of the year, Graendal has steadily increased her lead from 40% to 43%( :evil: ) whereas Lanfear is down two percent and Shadar Haran, Moridin and other Forsaken are each down by one percent. Moiraine has stayed steady on 7% throughout and 'anyone else' has regained the one percent lost inbetween.

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Egwene:

 

I voted.

 

I'm not in the majority, but that's not always bad or wrong...just different. :roll:

 

========================================

 

So much to do...so much to do...so much to do...

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read TFoH chapter 29:memories of saldea. kadere killed isendre

:roll: Thank you' date=' I know[/color']

 

Kadere's wagon is a tad more isolated and private than the royal palace' date=' eh?[/quote']

Well there's been quite a lot of noise over just how inhabited the palace was at the time, but that wasn't really my point. My point is that you're making an assumption that he must have been channeled to death because there's no physical evidence when we just witnessed a murder committed without channeling and without leaving any physical evidence a few chapters earlier. I'm not saying I don't think a channeler did it; I agree it's the likeliest solution. This is just one of those facts that nobody takes into consideration when making their assumptions. Kind of like the assumption that Slayer, were he the killer, would have known his target was a Forsaken and thusly placed that above two heavily guarded ex-Sedai.

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read TFoH chapter 29:memories of saldea. kadere killed isendre

:roll: Thank you' date=' I know[/color']

 

Kadere's wagon is a tad more isolated and private than the royal palace' date=' eh?[/quote']

Well there's been quite a lot of noise over just how inhabited the palace was at the time, but that wasn't really my point. My point is that you're making an assumption that he must have been channeled to death because there's no physical evidence when we just witnessed a murder committed without channeling and without leaving any physical evidence a few chapters earlier. I'm not saying I don't think a channeler did it; I agree it's the likeliest solution. This is just one of those facts that nobody takes into consideration when making their assumptions. Kind of like the assumption that Slayer, were he the killer, would have known his target was a Forsaken and thusly placed that above two heavily guarded ex-Sedai.

 

No that's not actually what I'm doing. I believe it's the likeliest solution, just as you say you do. I believe my words were "strongly indicates"; not "must be". Why do you insist on claiming that I and others don't consider other possiblities? I've considered them. I've looked at it from every angle, and Graendal is the choice that seems most likely to me. Could I be wrong? Absolutely. But until someone shows me something that's MORE likely I'm going to continue to think it's Graendal.

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That's not actually what I was getting at, but okay, sure, go ahead and get annoyed.

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That's not actually what I was getting at' date=' but okay, sure, go ahead and get annoyed.[/color']

 

What did you mean then? I would have thought that "facts nobody considers" meant that you thought that nobody ever considered those facts. Silly me.

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Look, I've never argued that Graendal flat out didn't do it, just that the case is actually fairly weak, and that's not what I was getting at here anyway. I'm sorry if you don't like having your thought processes challenged, but you really don't need to go taking it personally. And I'll go on thinking you and pretty much every other Graendal supporter don't really look at other possibilities except with a mind to disprove them primarily because I've never seen anything different. What I was specifically getting at is that it "strongly suggests" nothing, given that FoH gives us an example of people simply being made to disappear without channeling to go along with all the balefire exposure. In fact, from a literary sense, the exposition of balefire early in the book could have just been there for the sake of explaining the Rahvin Reset at the end. The overexposure could just be a red herring.

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read TFoH chapter 29:memories of saldea. kadere killed isendre

:roll: Thank you' date=' I know[/color']

 

you asked a question, i answered it, and not as rudely as you, apparently.

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Look' date=' I've never argued that Graendal flat out didn't do it, just that the case is actually fairly weak, and that's not what I was getting at here anyway. I'm sorry if you don't like having your thought processes challenged, but you really don't need to go taking it personally. And I'll go on thinking you and pretty much every other Graendal supporter don't really look at other possibilities except with a mind to disprove them primarily because I've never seen anything different. What I was specifically getting at is that it "strongly suggests" nothing, given that FoH gives us an example of people simply being made to disappear without channeling to go along with all the balefire exposure. In fact, from a literary sense, the exposition of balefire early in the book could have just been there for the sake of explaining the Rahvin Reset at the end. The overexposure could just be a red herring.[/color']

 

And I'll continue to tell you that I'm not blind to other facts. I'll consider them, and if someone uncovers something that turns out to be an alibi for Graendal then yay for them. I was wrong. If someone comes up with a suspect who isn't either believed dead, known dead, not introduced or later admitted to not knowing what happened to Asmodean who also knew Asmodean, would have been known by Asmodean blah blah blah, then I'll concede the point.

 

What should I be thinking about when someone brings up a piece of evidence meant to cast doubt on any particular theory? I'm sorry if nothing you've come up with is anything that casts serious doubt on the Graendal theory. I'm also sorry if you don't like it when people can answer your challenges logically.

 

I disagree that one instance of an unsolved murder committed by a non-channeler in which the murderer was in an isolated place and had no fear of interruption and which was committed in a place where nobody but the murderer is likely to go (in order to see blood stains etc.) makes it any less likely that a channeler killed Asmodean. Kadere came up behind Isendre which is what enabled him to kill her without her making a sound. Asmodean saw his killer, recognized him/her, and was sufficently frightened by the sight as to have the blood drain from his face and to make no attempt at self-defense, and died before his words faded from the air. I disagree that any non-channeler we know of would have been able to meet all those conditions. Slayer is the only one who MIGHT have but he's not mentioned for the 5 books between tSR and WH.

 

Even apart from the reasons I don't feel the Kadere/Isendre case is applicable, the notion that a non-channeler might have been able to kill Asmo in the manner described, doesn't weaken the theory as a whole. There are still other conditions to be met, more questions to be answered which can't be without more assumption. If this non-chaneller did it, who was it? How did Asmo know them? Why would they have been in the palace? CAN they have been in the palace? How did they know Asmo? How did they dispose of his body? Why didn't Asmo try to defend himself? Why did they do it? Greandal is the only character for whom I can answer all those questions with information direct from books up to and including tFoH without being contradicted by any of the books after.

 

All anyone can come up with is reasons why some detail or other might not have happened a certain way. Well sure it might not have. But might not != did not. The possiblility that one detail of a theory might have gone a different way does not invalidate the whole theory.

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i think i finally figured out who killed him, and i think it is Padan Fain. I mean, Fain wants nothing more than to kill Rand, and he somehow figured out that asmo was with Rand, so he killed him. Maybe he thought that Asmo was either helping him, in which case Rand would of been hardr to kill, or Asmo was gonna kill him, and Fain went in a crazy rampage that Rand was his.

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Guest Egwene

sorry Callandor... here is what Robert Alex posted previously:

 

From Dragoncon 2005, cited on wotmania.com here: http://www.wotmania.com/faqtopic.asp?ID=101

 

Question: Would you please name one character who did not kill Asmodean? Will you please name one of the following: Lanfear, Graendal, Moridin, Shaidar Haran, Padan Fain, Semirhage, Demandred, Mazrim Taim, Slayer. I thank you for your mercy and if you can please explain why they didn’t do it that would be a nice touch.

 

Jordan: Padan Fain didn’t because he wasn’t in the right place at the right time. He would have if he had been in the right place at the right time, but he wasn’t.

 

Fain is off the list.

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now i think it i Taim!

 

he doesnt want rand to be a better Asha'man then him, and he's a darkfriend.

 

 

yes...

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Taim doesn't show up til a few weeks after Asmo's death...

 

Sorry to keep rainin' on yer parade. :lol:

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I wanna know why everyone thinks Graendal did it. What would her motive be? I personally have no idea who it was. I do think it was a Channeler, though, because it just says "death took him." If he were stabbed or something it probably wouldve gone into more detail, or at least give a hint. RJ better tell us who it was in Memory of Light, cuz I'm going insane!!

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I wanna know why everyone thinks Graendal did it. What would her motive be?

 

From Graendal's point of view, Rand al'Thor had transformed from a backwoods farmboy to a dangerous channeler who killed Rahvin, as well as possibly Lanfear and Moghedien (who dissapeared the same day), and broke up a plan that Graendal had been involved in, all in the space of a few months. The same few months that Asmodean had been his teacher.

 

She must have attributed alot of his success to Asmodean. Since she was unwilling to risk striking at al'Thor directly, her motive would be to weaken him by removing his teacher.

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I could be just imagining this but I'm not sure RJ is planning a reveal within the books. I seem to remember reading somewhere about him maybe announcing it after AMoL just to put us out of our misery but that he didn't plan to do it as part of the story. I could be wrong because I have no idea where I saw it but...

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Actually he said that if he didn't do it in the story, he would tell us after AMOL was published. Frankly, since it could be solved with a one sentence POV from the killer "Ever since I killed Asmodean, blah blah blah," I think he'll slip it into AMOL, but only he really knows. Unless he told Harriet.

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RJ said only one person got it right, and I doubt only one person would suggest Graendal, so it can't be her.

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Guest Egwene

If RJ really said that, I assume that he must be refering to the actual whole setting of it, not just the name. If only one person got the name correct, then I think we can forget about the intuitively obvious bit *g*

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RJ said only one person got it right' date=' and I doubt only one person would suggest Graendal, so it can't be her.[/quote']

 

It's the same 12 year old quote that everyone keeps bringing up.

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i love it when someone says "what possible motive could graendal have for killing asmo?"

does she really need one? the forsaken have done kill people for fun, many have been fed to the trollocs for sport, and once demondred killed an entire city because he thought they had slighted him.this applies to any of the other forsaken as well, if given the chance they would gut each other like fish.

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