one word....Asmodean..... ;-)

[eug33]

if it was obvious then he would of simply said this dude killed asmo and mystery solved

 

and won't go in the trouble in disgusing him in the first place. plus if it was obvious we won't be discussing it at the moment. the mystery would of ended by now

[Ashaman Kovan]

if it was obvious then he would of simply said this dude killed asmo and mystery solved

 

and won't go in the trouble in disgusing him in the first place. plus if it was obvious we won't be discussing it at the moment. the mystery would of ended by now

 

He said it should be obvious and that he didn't just come out and say it because he "Liked watching people squirm over it too much." I think when it comes to things that are said that plainly about something thats happened and the words are uttered by the Creator(pun) of the world, they should be taken to mean quite literaly what he said.

[eug33]

well obvously it's not obvious because people has read it heaps of time and still haven't figured out who did it

[Ashaman Kovan]

well obvously it's not obvious because people has read it heaps of time and still haven't figured out who did it

 

You've never say lost something, an object whatever, car keys or something like that and looked everywhere for them and when you finally found them they were right there on your key rack? I hope you get my meaning.

[Jonn]

It isn't obvious.

[Ashaman Kovan]

It isn't obvious.

 

Not to you. Or me. But what's obvious for some isn't for others.

[lou]

the first person to suggest killing asmo is sammael, in the first meeting of the four (graendal, rahvin, lanfear, and sammael).in later books we have graendal doing everything but fetching water for sam,coupled with the fact that the killing was so absolute it left no body (most likely balefire) the source of the power was most likely female.

 

this is my reasoning anyway.

[RobertAlexWillis]

LOL ... no Jonn, if Moiraine did it, that wouldn't be obvious.

 

It is blindingly obvious to me. I genuinely don't understand how anyone can look at all the evidence and not reach the conclusion that Graendal did it.

[Jonn]

If you have to meticulously pour over evidence to find an answer for something, it's not obvious.

 

Moiraine mentions Asmodean in her "last words" to Rand. In fact it's the last thing in her letter.

 

One of the last scenes of the Fires of Heaven was Asmodean's murder.

 

One of the last things Asmodean was thinking about was Lanfear.

 

the last thing Landear did before she was taken out was to get pulled into a melting doorway by Moiraine.

 

The way Asmodean was killed suggests balefire.

 

One of the few people at that point who showed themselves as willing to use balefire was Moiraine.

 

Asmodean's words hung in the air even after he was dead.

 

Be'lal's words hung in the air after Moiraine zapped him with Balefire.

 

Moiraine is responsible for the demise of two Forsaken besides the suspicions that she killed Asmodean.

 

If it's not obvious that Moiraine killed Asmodean, it's at least quite a bit more compelling than Graendal's case, that she may have.

[eug33]

i don't remeber her word exactly but didn't moraine say it was nessary that rand had a teacher and since there is no one around to teach him except forsakens then it might as well me asmo so she had no motive. my bet will be a forsaken/black ajah/anyone that is a darkfriend that can channel. because asmo knew that person on sight it not like he knows many people from the light.

[Jonn]

i don't remeber her word exactly but didn't moraine say it was nessary that rand had a teacher and since there is no one around to teach him except forsakens then it might as well me asmo so she had no motive. my bet will be a forsaken/black ajah/anyone that is a darkfriend that can channel. because asmo knew that person on sight it not like he knows many people from the light.

 

She said that she "cannot wholly approve."

 

She went on to say that she understands [Rand's need for a teacher]. And it reads to me when she says, "...perhaps it was the only way..." that there is a definite tinge of regret. Regret perhaps that she cannot see to Asmodean at the moment. She then goes on to say that Rand must always remember who Asmodean is, because he's the same man he always was. She then says that Rand will "do well". To me this is her basically saying that Rand doesn't really need Asmodean, that he should have confidence in his own ability to channel as it has brought him this far already. He in fact defeated the man without any help after all. Why rely so much on a known liar and committer of atrocities?

 

So, she does not approve, but she understands. The man's the same as he always was, and Rand will do well.

 

To me it doesn't sound like she's giving Asmodean a pass at all.

[Guest Lord Jameson]

self delete

[chawthor]

Moiraine and Lanfear are both compelling suspects (Lanfear was my initial suspect, my first time through), but I still have trouble getting over the "they had just fallen through the ter'angreal doorway" issue...it's possible that either one of them, once arriving in Finnland, immediately wished for the chance to off Asmo (Moiraine since she was no longer able to protect Rand from Asmo or Lanfear since she could no longer control Asmo - being held by the Finns and all), and, of course, the all-knowing Finns could have known precisely when/where to place them in order to strike unnoticed (and Asmo certainly would be shocked to see either of them, since he thought they were dead)...in fact, the more I write this, the more I like this theory.

 

After examining the evidence, Graendal seems like the most likely culprit, but she's also kind of boring...I like Moiraine or Lanfear as the guilty party.

 

Perhaps in A Memory of Light, we'll get a run-down of that day's events from the Moiraine/Lanfear battle in Carhien right up to Asmo's death, and put these discussions to rest...though I expect RJ to stick to his "I'll never tell" mentality.

[Guest Egwene]

:D yes, chawthor, exactly. Moiraine and Lanfear would be fun... Graendal as the culprit would be plain boring. I think that even if RJ had Miss G as the culprit originally, he really ought to have changed it to the much more exciting Moiraine or Lanfear by now.

 

Jonn, just a friendly heads up... your Avi is way outside the permitted maximum of 80x80.

[Mr Ares]

:D yes' date=' chawthor, exactly. Moiraine and Lanfear would be fun... Graendal as the culprit would be plain boring. I think that even if RJ had Miss G as the culprit originally, he really ought to have changed it to the much more exciting Moiraine or Lanfear by now.

 

Jonn, just a friendly heads up... your Avi is way outside the permitted maximum of 80x80.[/quote']Maybe he'll make up for the disappointment of the actual killer by having her wear a really great (and well described) dress for the revelation - nothing could be more exiting than a description of a dress! Unless he doesn't give the answer in the books, but makes a revelation while wearing a dress himself. I should probably stop now.

[Jonn]

:D yes' date=' chawthor, exactly. Moiraine and Lanfear would be fun... Graendal as the culprit would be plain boring. I think that even if RJ had Miss G as the culprit originally, he really ought to have changed it to the much more exciting Moiraine or Lanfear by now.

 

Jonn, just a friendly heads up... your Avi is way outside the permitted maximum of 80x80.[/quote']Maybe he'll make up for the disappointment of the actual killer by having her wear a really great (and well described) dress for the revelation - nothing could be more exiting than a description of a dress! Unless he doesn't give the answer in the books, but makes a revelation while wearing a dress himself. I should probably stop now.

 

lol

 

egwene: noted, I was looking for something allblacks that was smaller, but failed to find one that would stick. I'm working on it.

 

*there you go, a scary pic of Kees Meeuws doing the Haka, one of the baddest mutha*****s of ALL TIME! Hold my drink *****.

[BrainFireBob]

Just because *you* would find it exciting is not proof, nor is it sufficient reason to oppose an existing, more consistent (read: Requires far fewer assumptions) option. Most people don't think it's Graendal- it's just that the online community figured it out. Most readers aren't online. Therefore, for most readers, it would be exciting if it was Graendal instead of, say, Lanfear- whose excitement lies in an "after all" vein.

[Guest Egwene]

BrainFireBob, I didn't say that it being more exciting was proof... though having said that, if I was to write a story, I would obviously try and make things as exciting as possible... so maybe it is a slight point in favour of Moiraine *g*

 

I still am of the opinion that my theory about Moiraine requires no more in the way of assumptions than the one about Graendal. Everything that I 'assume' is based on the info that was available to us up to the end of FoH. Subsequent events have added substantially to making it even more possible and, in my eyes, plausible.

 

Jonn... if you want someone to re-size your Avi for you, post a request on the Signature Request Board... they'll be very happy to help.

[Mr Ares]

BrainFireBob' date=' I didn't say that it being more exciting was proof... though having said that, if I was to write a story, I would obviously try and make things as exciting as possible... so maybe it is a slight point in favour of Moiraine *g*

 

I still am of the opinion that my theory about Moiraine requires no more in the way of assumptions than the one about Graendal. Everything that I 'assume' is based on the info that was available to us up to the end of FoH. Subsequent events have added substantially to making it even more possible and, in my eyes, plausible.

 

Jonn... if you want someone to re-size your Avi for you, post a request on the Signature Request Board... they'll be very happy to help.[/quote']Would you actually like to try counting all the assumptions? To give the killer means, motive, oppotunity, the ability to dispose of the body and the ability to induce Asmo's reaction are all necessary, so lets just see how many assumption are needed to give each person this.

Means: Moiraine and Graendal both have balefire, if they should decide to use it. This also counts towards body disposal. Both also have access to other killing weaves, and can dipose of the bod in other ways. Unless, of course, the violently explodind ter'angreal didn't still her*(0 each)

Motive: Kill the traitor v kill the Chosen. A slight stretch in M's case as Asmo was useful to Rand, and she had already warned Rand. (M=1,G=0)

Oppotunity: G could travel there, we know of no impediment to her getting there, the only necessary assumption is a reason to go - not hard to invent, but not explicitly stated, so here it is. M needs to bargain with the Finn, they need to be able to give her a way into the palace, so 2 more there. And she may be stilled. (M=3,G=1)

They could both induce Asmo's reaction, one being dead and the other being a mortal enemy. Final score Moiraine=3 assumptions, and Graendal=1. And that's hardly an in depth look, is it? Any comments?

 

*Moiaine's stilling requires an assumption either way, so I chose not to count it, even though, under the cicmstances, it is a reasonable assumption to make

[Digbe]

LTT killed him... When Rand entered TOH in the flesh, "He would lose apart of himself" as the aiel wise ones might mention. LTT, (being respun by the pattern) exists in TOR. LTT was strong enough to touch the waking world while waiting in the dream world. Bringing Rand into the world of dreams allows him to gain more ability.(What Rand lost, LTT gained)

 

There isn't a character that hates Asmo as strongly as LTT... or at least he is the one that claims he wants to kill him the most out of the series.

 

Ltt finally had enough strength to enter the waking world and so w/his first effort, he decided to kill the forsaken closest to to Rand. LTT would think he was a better teacher then asmo anyways.

 

Prophecies said that one will live and one will die(COS). Min had a viewing (COS) that rand was [fighting] with another man. Actually, she saw two men fighting and she knew that one was Rand and the other she did not know.COS

 

The Battle between Rand and LTT will be equally as important as the one w/DO. Afterall, If the DO were to be breaking loose and touching the world it only stands to say that his biggest rival would also touch the world as desparately as DO

 

Wudda think? Any takers?

 

Read Look through some of the previous suggestions and apply LTT to the scenarios & you will see that LTT is just as logical as Gr,Mo,L

[eug33]

can u write who LTT is in full please

[chawthor]

LTT = Lews Therin Telamon

[Mr Ares]

LTT killed him... When Rand entered TOH in the flesh, "He would lose apart of himself" as the aiel wise ones might mention. LTT, (being respun by the pattern) exists in TOR. LTT was strong enough to touch the waking world while waiting in the dream world. Bringing Rand into the world of dreams allows him to gain more ability.(What Rand lost, LTT gained)

 

There isn't a character that hates Asmo as strongly as LTT... or at least he is the one that claims he wants to kill him the most out of the series.

 

Ltt finally had enough strength to enter the waking world and so w/his first effort, he decided to kill the forsaken closest to to Rand. LTT would think he was a better teacher then asmo anyways.

 

Prophecies said that one will live and one will die(COS). Min had a viewing (COS) that rand was [fighting] with another man. Actually, she saw two men fighting and she knew that one was Rand and the other she did not know.COS

 

The Battle between Rand and LTT will be equally as important as the one w/DO. Afterall, If the DO were to be breaking loose and touching the world it only stands to say that his biggest rival would also touch the world as desparately as DO

 

Wudda think? Any takers?

 

Read Look through some of the previous suggestions and apply LTT to the scenarios & you will see that LTT is just as logical as Gr,Mo,L

LTT is not in TAR. He was, until he was spun back into the pattern, as Rand Al'thor. He currently exists as a voice in Rand's head, a form of madness. He has no separate existence. For what you say to be true, you either need to invent a completely separate existence for LTT (unnecessary, not obvious, wrong) or you have to have LTT seize control of Rand's body, walk out on Davram Bashere, kill Asmo, who seems strangely terrified of Rand, return to Bashere, and have no memory of what happened. And you say this is as logical as the other candidates? Why not just say that the Creator did it, or go back to Asmo suicide theories, they make more sense. Also, the losing part of yourself may just be WO superstition, as we have seen little to no evidence of it.

[richglennon]

I finally figured it out....

 

It was Bela

 

Means: In the city at the time. Nobody is watching her anyway. No alibi.

 

Modus operandi: Hoof to the head.

 

Motive: To be as important in the last book as in the first 3. Feeling left out.

[chawthor]

...and I think I'd be pretty scared of an angry horse in a closet. Though how did Bela remove any trace of the death? Did she eat the body?

 

The WOTFAQ suggests that Slayer demonstrates "a loss of one's humanity" by entering TAR in the flesh repeatedly.