one word....Asmodean..... ;-)

[Nelal Hurcran]

I just passed this point in my very first re-read. SH hasn't realy been introduced yet, not until the prologe of LoC.

 

Anyway......

 

 

Even after reading all the facts and debate (well...not all of it) going on out there, and preaty much beliveing that it was Greandal, when I read it again, my first thought was that Lanfear was blaringly obvious, closly followed by "oh, wait. She just disapeared that morning. Hum." But after thinking (which hurts) long and hard about it, I came up with a semi-plausible theory:

 

 

After Lanfear fell through the doorway, she somehow convices the Finn (I'm not sure which ones) to make a bargin with her*. She askes to be able to provide some major hinderance to Rand, they put her where whe can kill his teacher, and her repayment is her life.

 

*This is one of the major wholes, as the Finn will not be very likely to want to bargin with someone who destroyed their best access to our world. Another possiblility for this is that she did something simmilar to what Mat did, which is: Spew off random rantings that the finn can take for an attempt to bargin something, to which they set their own price.

 

We know that Lanfear had to die in Finn costady, else how could she come back as Cyndane (sp?). We also know that the Finn like to take life as payment for services, and other "gifts" that they give. 1+1=2 (somtimes)

 

 

Anyway, that's my theory. Tear it apart.

[Wayhey]

i haven't reread the series in a long time (just started again, but i'm only on TDR), but was SH introduced at this point? if so, that solves all of our problems:

 

How would he know who SH is at that point?  Other Forsaken didn't know who he was when they saw him later on.

[Wayhey]

Anyway, that's my theory. Tear it apart.

 

It's too damn convoluted! lol

[DemandredFO]

Someone shot Asmo with a Zat Gun three times.  It was Jack O'neill :lol

 

[bjclinton]

i haven't reread the series in a long time (just started again, but i'm only on TDR), but was SH introduced at this point? if so, that solves all of our problems:

 

How would he know who SH is at that point?  Other Forsaken didn't know who he was when they saw him later on.

 

thats just it- i couldn't remember if he was up and running as a character at this point or not....if he had already established his presence, it would have made sense. but as someone was kind enough to point out and remind me- he had yet to be introduce...

 

oh well....guess it was Grandahl!!  ;D

[Mr Ares]

Even after reading all the facts and debate (well...not all of it) going on out there, and preaty much beliveing that it was Greandal, when I read it again, my first thought was that Lanfear was blaringly obvious, closly followed by "oh, wait. She just disapeared that morning. Hum." But after thinking (which hurts) long and hard about it, I came up with a semi-plausible theory:

 

 

After Lanfear fell through the doorway, she somehow convices the Finn (I'm not sure which ones) to make a bargin with her*. She askes to be able to provide some major hinderance to Rand, they put her where whe can kill his teacher, and her repayment is her life.

 

*This is one of the major wholes, as the Finn will not be very likely to want to bargin with someone who destroyed their best access to our world. Another possiblility for this is that she did something simmilar to what Mat did, which is: Spew off random rantings that the finn can take for an attempt to bargin something, to which they set their own price.

 

We know that Lanfear had to die in Eelfinn custody, else how could she come back as Cyndane. We also know that the Finn like to take life as payment for services, and other "gifts" that they give. 1+1=2 (somtimes)

 

 

Anyway, that's my theory. Tear it apart.

OK. Firstly, Lanfear lacks the means to kill Asmo. She was probably stilled when she went through the doorway (it's the only thing we know of that would explain her later loss of strength - she was Healed by a woman. Furthermore, it would also explain what happened to Lan's bond - Moiraine was also stilled). Secondly, she lacked motive. She would have killed Asmo if she had the chance, but he was utterly secondary, she would have been gunning for the man who spurned her "love" or the woman he betrayed her with (I trust I don't need to spell it out). Thirdly, she lacks opportunity. She is trapped in another world with beings who, according to our late, great, beloved author, cannot affect the outside world AT ALL (he said it in a QOTW relating to limits on the power of the Eelfinn - they walked through the door to hang Mat, which doesn't count as using their power. Therefore, in all likelihood, they cannot go around making new doorways, and stilled women can't make Gateways). Fourthly, she can't dispose of the body. Unless you think she dragged it out with no-one noticing, or spent a while sitting therte hacking it into tiny bits - remember she can't channel, so she only has her natural strength, and the longer she waits the more likely it is that she will be found. In her favour, she would be recognized and so could induce that reaction, she expresses no lack of knowledge as to Asmo's fate (i.e. she never says something along the lines of "I wonder whether Asmo is really dead", which has been the downfall of so many theories relating to the Chosen), she has the same reason to keep it secret as anyone else - she wasn't reintroduced until POD, and could simply not have thought about it, while RJ laughs himself silly at the people who couldn't get the right answer. But the problem is that these are all rather weak points in her favour, as opposed to the huge ones against, and from what I have heard she was, for a long time, the leading candidate - until RJ revealed that most of the answers given to him were wrong. The one decent point in her favour is that she, above and beyond ALL other candidates, including Graendal (and Jonn's suggestion of Moiraine in this instance is, needless to say, utterly ludicrous*), is by far the most intuitively obvious candidate - she's name dropped right before he dies!!! How obvious is that!!! Unfortunately, while she is obvious, all the indications are against her being the killer, unless RJ seriously dropped the ball by making the correct, and most intuitively obvious, killer all but impossible logically - she has almost nothing else going for her.

 

So your theory amounts to this: that Lanfear fell into another world, destroyed the main point of ingress, was given a bargain for some unknown reason, was shoved out despite her hosts apparent inability to shove her out anywhere but the TOG, killed him despite being unable to channel, didn't go and kill Rand or Avi, despite those almost certainly being on the top of her agenda, was brough back despite a seeming inability of her hosts to bring her back, disposed of the body for reasons unknown, and all of this for no readily apparent reason. Makes perfect sense. Happy with that tearing apart?

 

*Jonn has suggested that Asmo's words hanging in the air have a similarity to a previous scene, specifically that in TDR when Moiraine kills Be'lal. It is supposedly intuitively obvious that not only do we see a similarity and think balefire may have been used, but that it was Moiraine using said balefire, despite all indications to the contrary, and despite it happening 2 books ago, and so surely not obvious to "the most casual observer". Nice try Jonn.

[Vicious Circle]

Made you look! No really, I just gave the thread a bump so the new guys could find it. It was all the way back on page 18 of the list of threads! We can do better by this thread people! ;D

[Majsju]

The reason this thread was so far back is because we try to keep all discussions about Asmo here:

http://forums.dragonmount.com/index.php/topic,9967.0.html

[Vicious Circle]

How would someone reading the thread know that?

[Majsju]

Well, considering that this thread was buried on page 18, and have not been posted in for over two moths, I'd say people manage quite well to find the proper thread.

[Vicious Circle]

If you don't want me to post here I won't, but if if you want to keep the posts in the other thread shouldn't it say that or be locked?

[Majsju]

I keep this open just in case someone new actually use the search function, because I rather have people post here than starting a new thread.

 

 

[Paviel]

My theory is that after falling through the doorframe, Lanfear just happened to say something to the effect of "I want Asmodean dead."

[Morindin]

THIS THREAD IS STILL ALIVE????

 

I am shocked LOLLL  :o

[trakand_01]

Its all irrelevant; Luckers and I have deduced that it was in fact Christmas that killed Asmodean.

 

Probably the shopping.

[Jonn]

Its all irrelevant; Luckers and I have deduced that it was in fact Christmas that killed Asmodean.

 

Probably the shopping.

 

You mean the spirit of Christmas, don't you?

 

Hmm yeah, trying to track down a Nintendo Wii, I'm told, will probably kill anyone.

[Mr Ares]

My theory is that after falling through the doorframe, Lanfear just happened to say something to the effect of "I want Asmodean dead."

So your theory is that Lanfear is upset at Rand for sleeping with another woman, upset at the other woman (Avi) for sleeping with her man, probably upset at Moiraine for throwing her into another world when she was trying to punish Rand and Avi (and was probably upset at probably being stilled as well) but her first words are to kill Asmo? You didn't really think that one through, did you? Christmas killed Asmo is far more likely. Picture the scene: [Asmodean] pulled open a small door, intending to find his way to the pantry. There should be some decent wine. One step, and he stopped, the blood draining from his face at the sight of the fat man with the beard. "You? No!" The word still hung in the air, as did the sound of sleigh bells, when death took him.

 

Also, why would Lanfear wishing for Asmo's death make a blind bit of difference? Are the Eelfinn supposed to care, are they supposed to help her? She just destroyed their door.

 

Now, Merry Christmas everyone....or else.

[Guest Dreadlord]

QUOTE

Its all irrelevant; Luckers and I have deduced that it was in fact Christmas that killed Asmodean.

 

Probably the shopping

UNQUOTE

 

Im glad I saw that post, i laughed out loud when I saw that, and I dont normally laugh out loud often when Im on my own.

 

Anyway, Brandon Sanderson has announced that Asmodeans killer will be revealed in A Memory of Light

 

http://www.brandonsanderson.com/blog/590/Merry-Christmas!--New-FAQ!

Its quite a way down the page but he does say that he and Harriet have thought of a place where Asmodeans killer will be revealed.

[Guest leebarr]

we all know Bela kicked him in the head.

[Guest Dreadlord]

i reckon it might have been sammael

[Mr Ares]

i reckon it might have been sammael

The Sammael who said he didn't do it - in a Sammael POV, with no indication that he was lying? Why didn't we think of that?

[Great Lord of the Dark]

such violence?? I think that it would have to be somebody that he didn't expect because he seemed really upset before he died...ohhhh the irony. I think it was one of the Aiel Wise Women or Moiraine

[Vicious Circle]

... or Aviendha.

[Bob T Dwarf]

i reckon it might have been sammael

The Sammael who said he didn't do it - in a Sammael POV, with no indication that he was lying? Why didn't we think of that?

 

Logic has no place here.  Neither does reason.  Asmodean's killer has become such an article of faith for most, that this thread has really become a religious argument.

 

Besides, I proved several hundred pages, and a couple of threads ago, that it could only have been Dr. Who. ;)

[Majsju]

Obviously, when Rand severd Asmos black cord, Asmo started to accumulate a sense of guilt for everything he had done. When he got dead, and then unbroughten dead by Rands balefire, a shift in reality caused this guilt to be separated from Asmos body, and be transformed into a brand new physical entity. Which only existed in order to pay the consequences, ie put a drastic end to Asmos existence. Since this new entity was created from Asmo, there was a link that made it able to sense Asmos actions, and thus it could wait behind the proper door.

So Asmo opens the door, sees the evil twin version of himself (you know, with a goatee), and gets dead.

 

Case closed.