one word....Asmodean..... ;-)

[Eitoishi]

Okay guys I'm gonna finally reveal who did it. So for those of you that are stuck on your theories and ideas of who it was and for what reasons that dont want to be wrong dont read on.

 

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It was Robert Jordan. He didnt even have to use the One power. He used an ancient technique called storytelling to not only create Asmo but to destroy him when he was no longer useful. Then he cleverly left evidence for several plaussible as well as improbable suspects. Some of which were thought to be dead at the time of his death. Think about it he almost got away with the perfect murder, I bet none of you even suspected him until i mentioned it. Seriously though it shouldnt be that big a deal to figure out the truth. Everyone is trying to make some grand scheme of how he was murdered. It must be very simple to piece together. Asmo was a washed up character that imo RJ was planning to do something special with...realized it wouldnt work or wouldnt be as widely accepted as he anticipated. Knowing this he probably slightly altered part of the book to killh im off leaving breadcrumbs as to who done it. I know there are going to be those of you out there thinking 'well if it's so easy to figure out why dont you know who it is'? Well I have no excuse to give you...maybe im too simple minded to notice the hints. Maybe it was such a minute detail in the whole of the story I didnt think to pay closer attention till seeing this form(and no I'm not contradicting myself those are speculations not excuses). Either way I've been meaning to re-read the series, a little here and there until aMoL comes out. So in that time I have plenty of opportunity to figure out who killed him and if not then I'll have the same response as somone else earlier in this forum had. Oh so thats who it was....

 

I know the way I type seems like I'm being rude and maybe even singling somone out but I honestly am not trying to do that. I just know that some people can take great offense when their theorys are disregarded. Especially when not even considered for a second. I guess I'm saying to respect other peoples opinions even if you dont agree. I'm not writting this little closing statement because of recent posts. This is just the feeling i got overall from having read half of them over the past week. It's fun to speculate and theorize so remember to have fun doing so. Dont become too serious and let figuring out 'who done it?' get in the way of having fun in the process.

[eug33]

heheehehehehehe

 

 

 

nice i couldnt agree more of cource rj did it and he is goin to do more killings with that method storytelling. it what gives us entertainment. stroy telling has killed armies of people in the past present and will continue to do so.

 

but hey story telling is all fake so it's fun. it's not that the killing takes place ( unless it's non fiction hhehhe) and u know what all this disscussion about how he died just kills him in alll sorta differnet ways so we are alll killers jk

 

plus amol will reveal everything right so RAFO everyone to c who killed him.

 

 

btw i think he died of natural causes he went off on a walk and fell off a cliff and died. hehe i'm not a killer

[Eitoishi]

eug33 you are so right. I cant believe i didnt see it before. He must have fallen off a cliff, a very high one over water at that. I never would have thought of this if it werent for the travelling idea. This is how it went down thanks to Eug33 for the insight i needed.

 

Rand as we all know has a travelling room in the palace to aviod any 'accidents' and so he can come and go as he pleases. Well I think he must of accidentally tied one off in that closet that asmo happened accross. Thats why asmo only took 1 step. Then the blood drained from his face because he was falling at terminal velocity. Then when he comes close to the waters surface he screams YOU? because he sees his reflection and is too dimwitted to realize until that moment he involuntarily commited suicide. When he does realize hes dead meat he then shouts "NO!". As for the way it was worded something like his words lingered in the air..well he was falling ppl. Of course they would be at least 50 or more feet up once he saw his reflection in the river down below. They must have gotten hung up on a tree root sticking out of the cliffs edge about 3/4 of the way down.

 

When you put this logic together its really very clear this is what happened I give most of my credit to eug33 if it werent for him I would have never pieced it together. It also ties up the lose ends. Because since it was a tied of gateway by rand, then it wouldnt have been noticed when being used since it was already active. And Matt and avi wouldnt have heard him scream do to the fact hes on the other side of a gateway no telling how far away form them in reality. I knew it was obvious all i needed was the right puzzle piece put in front of me to figure it out.

[callandor]

Slayer can't Travel' date=' and he could get rid of the body. Actually, murderers throughout the ages have been getting rid of bodies. So that assertion is just silly.[/quote']

 

couldnt slayer travel of a sort since he can step physically into TAR? he could imagine himself somewhere in TAR and the n step into the real world? couldnt he?

[RobertAlexWillis]

couldnt slayer travel of a sort since he can step physically into TAR? he could imagine himself somewhere in TAR and the n step into the real world? couldnt he?

 

Effectively, its the same, but its not Travelling. Thats why I said he could hide or dispose of the body as easily as someone who could channel and Travel.

[eug33]

Eitoishi

 

i don't want to have the credit for that idea in him falling off a cliff. although i was the one that suggested it. i only said it beause i don't want to kill him by storytelling hehehe he died of natural causes. i was goin to say he had a cardiac aresst but it's imposble because he is immortal.

 

but then when rand cut him offf from shai tan i wondered if that broke his immortality?

[callandor]

 

No other Chosen has killed another directly or even indirectly' date=' and I dont think that Graendal would.[/quote']Actually, they have. Not any of the ones on screen, but in the War of the Shadow the chosen frequently fought against, and killed each other. So killing a traitor if given the oppotunity is in character for all the Chosen. It's just a question of the opportunity arising, which is the only assumption needed to make it Graendal. No one else needs that few assumptions.

 

So, new theories necessary all round then, young mortals.

actually, you are wrong. outta the 13 chosen, all thirteen were trapped in the bore. if you are talking about the dreadlords during the AOL, then yes, they plotted and killed each other, but the main thirteen never killed each other.

[Eitoishi]

I knew it eug33 is really Kira. The evil protagonist in the Japanese Anime Death Note. I almost over looked his thread as nothing but an innocent reply to my theory of how asmo died. But then it hit me like a ton of bricks when he was overly defensive about killing him himself. That he would have him die of 'cardiac arrest'. Those of us that have watched even a few episodes know that is the most comon way that the Kira kills off people as to avoid suspicion. Now all I have to do is tell N and he can hunt you down.

 

Good thing I dont have my full name posted on this forum or an Avatar in case you have the shinigami eyes.

[eug33]

u've watched to much films/anime

 

i'm not kira or any one u do know heart attacks is one of the most common ways old people die and stroke ofcource. it was the first thing that popped up in my mind

[Mr Ares]

No other Chosen has killed another directly or even indirectly' date=' and I dont think that Graendal would.[/quote']Actually, they have. Not any of the ones on screen, but in the War of the Shadow the chosen frequently fought against, and killed each other. So killing a traitor if given the oppotunity is in character for all the Chosen. It's just a question of the opportunity arising, which is the only assumption needed to make it Graendal. No one else needs that few assumptions.

 

So, new theories necessary all round then, young mortals.

actually, you are wrong. outta the 13 chosen, all thirteen were trapped in the bore. if you are talking about the dreadlords during the AOL, then yes, they plotted and killed each other, but the main thirteen never killed each other.

Actually, young callandor, you're wrong. During the War, all of the shadow's channelers were called Forsaken (by the Light) or Chosen (by themselves). There were substantially more than 13 of them, and Dreadlords didn't exist till the Trolloc Wars. Here's a quote if you want one:

Week 12 Question: In Winters Heart, you mention that back in the Age of Legends, there were several other Forsaken that the Dark One had killed because he suspected they would betray him. What's their story? Were those people ever as high ranking as the 13 survivors, or where they more like high-ranking Dreadlords then actual Forsaken?

 

Robert Jordan Answers: First off, Dreadlords was the name given to men and women who could channel and sided with the Shadow in the Trolloc Wars. Yes, the women were called Dreadlords, too. They might have liked to call themselves "the Chosen," like the Forsaken, but feared to. The real Forsaken might not have appreciated it when they returned, as prophecies of the Shadow foretold would happen. Some of the Dreadlords had authority and responsibility equivalent to that of the Forsaken in the War of the Shadow, however. They ran the Shadow's side of the Trolloc Wars, though without the inherent ability to command the Myrddraal that the Forsaken possess, meaning they had to negotiate with them. Overall command at the beginning was in another's hands.

 

Forsaken was the name given to Aes Sedai who went over to the Shadow in the War of the Shadow at the end of the Age of Legends, though of course, they called themselves the Chosen, and despite the tales of the "current"Age, there were many more than a few of them. Since they occupied all sorts of levels, you might say that many were equivalent to some of the lesser Dreadlords, but it would be incorrect to call them so. At the time, they were all Forsaken—or Chosen—from the greatest to the least.

 

Some of those Forsaken the Dark One killed were every bit as high-ranking as the thirteen who were remembered, and who you might say constituted a large part of the Dark One's General Staff at the time of the sealing. With the Forsaken, where treachery and backstabbing were an acceptable way of getting ahead, the turnover in the upper ranks was fairly high, though Ishamael, Demandred, Lanfear, Graendal, Semirhage, and later Sammael, were always at the top end of the pyramid. They were very skilled at personal survival, politically and physically.

 

In large part the thirteen were remembered because they were trapped at Shayol Ghul, and so their names became part of that story, though it turned out that details of them, stories of them, survived wide-spread knowledge of the tale of the actual sealing itself. Just that they had been sealed away. Other Forsaken were left behind, so to speak, free but in a world that was rapidly sliding down the tube. The men eventually went mad and died from the same taint that killed off the other male Aes Sedai. They had no access to the Dark One's protective filters. The women died, too, though from age or in battle or from natural disasters created by insane male AesSedai or from diseases that could no longer be controlled because civilization itself had been destroyed and access to those who were skilled in Healing was all but gone. And soon after their deaths, their names were forgotten, except for what might possibly be discovered in some ancient manuscript fragment that survived the Breaking. A bleak story of people who deserved no better, and not worth telling in any detail.

Looks like I'm right then. Any further questions? They are appreciated as a diversion from the rantings of the two idiots who currently seem to be infecting this thread.

[lou]

slayer would be a nice theory except that although we have luc stepping into isam into Tel, but we never have him pulling anything with him on the way.slayer also seems to enjoy leaving his handiwork behind, that would be his MO,that's what makes it doubtful.

its referenced throughout the books that the chosen scheme against each other as much as they scheme against the light.sammael was prepared to blast lanfear and possibly graendal in tSR, but rahvin stayed his hand.this instance shows that given the opportunity, yes they would kill each other in a heartbeat.

[callandor]

:evil: :roll:

 

the chosen i was talking about in the first place were the main 13. grrrr...

[DaWarw]

:evil: :roll:

 

the chosen i was talking about in the first place were the main 13. grrrr...

 

The 13 trapped weren't the main 13. They just happened to be meeting at SG when the 100 Companions attacked.

[callandor]

:evil: :evil: :evil:

 

they were the most powerful.

[RobertAlexWillis]

they were the most powerful.

 

Um, no. Jordan's statement, quoted earlier, specifically says, "Some of those Forsaken the Dark One killed were every bit as high-ranking as the thirteen who were remembered"

 

The ones who were remembered were remembered specifically because they got caught with their pants down (figuratively) at Shayol Ghul.

 

Certainly the ones caught were among the strongest, but evil channelers of comparable strength and position had fallen to the Light, to each other, and to the Dark One, during the War of the Power.

[Elwinn Taron]

Callandor, what you are remembering is straight out of the books. Unfortuneately, you are remembering a quote from Moiraine. Lots of things that Moiraine learned as "fact" from the White Tower are later shown to be wrong. She also was taught that strength in the Power between men and women was equal in the AoL. So Moiraine wasn't lying, she thought it to be true.

 

I've never figured out if RJ changed his mind as the story "grew like Topsy", or if he planned on making the "all powerful, all knowing" Aes Sedai look a little foolish. I still can't figure out if he wants us to like the arrogant, know-it-all, obnoxious Aes Sedai or not.

[eug33]

u wouldn't exactly call it arrogance though. they want to maintein there image as the all knowing and powerful because they need to, because if people thought they were weak it will be disaterous.

 

the shit i can't remember which ajah is good at negotiating peace. i think is white. is goood at negotiating is people fear them and will do as they are told. think of them as the UN now but abit stronger

[RobertAlexWillis]

Its the Grey Ajah.

[Guest Egwene]

Let's see, what do we have here?

 

Hmmmm....Moiraine picked up a vote or two... :) and Graendal is one percet down :D

 

Keep voting

[Guest Egwene]

just a post to get past the 'no post exists for this topic' syndrome.... :evil:

[Caramoore]

I'm 99.9% sure it was Graendal' date=' for alot of reasons.[/quote']

 

I know this is probably a rehash, but Robert could you post or repost what your reasoning is for Graendal? Thanks...

[lou]

you are about to unleash the mighty RAW....god have mercy on your soul.....

[RobertAlexWillis]

I know this is probably a rehash, but Robert could you post or repost what your reasoning is for Graendal? Thanks...

 

A summary is on page one of this thread:

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9967

 

Its the third post in the thread.

 

For greater detail, or a response to specific objections ... oh man ... you'd have to winnow through about the last 50 pages of this thread, and that one.

 

Feel free to ask any specific questions though.

[Caramoore]

I wasn't asking to be a smart A** really, I just thought you would have it all laid out somewhere... THANKS. And after reading that I have to say I almost agree with you :D Now I'm down to Graendal or Taim. Sorry, I just can't get Taim out of my head so I'm leaning 60/40 towards Taim with the 40% on Graendal. But let's just say that I respect your opinion enough to have bump her up from about 5% lol...

[RobertAlexWillis]

Well ... since you brought up Taim specifically ...

 

Taim didn't arrive in Caemlyn until about a month after Asmodean's death (as evidenced by the fact that Mat is already downstream in Maerone on the day he arrives). Not only did he arrive late, but he had been travelling so hard that it made him appear almost 10 years older than he actually is (see Jordan's explanation cited here: http://www.wotmania.com/faqtopic.asp?ID=84 )

 

That's running pretty hard.

 

So, if Taim were Asmodean's executioner, he would have had to be in Caemlyn the day Rand proclaimed his amnesty, but, rather than take it, he would have to leave Caemlyn, grind a decade's worth of aging into himself, then come back a month later. I have a very hard time believing that to be the case. Even if he felt it would have been suspicious to show up the same day, he could have just hidden in the city for a week or two.

 

No, Taim was nowhere near Caemlyn when Asmo got killed. He was in Andor, but not the Royal Palace.

 

Oh, and I didn't think you were being a smartass. I know there's way too much on these threads to dig through.