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Wtf egwene?


tyanth
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I agree with everything you said, however I have to point out that Rand never called Egwene "mother". Just pointing that out.

Of course, why should he ? He treated her with respect, he did not come groveling.There is a difference.

 

You said he called her mother in the post I responded to. I was just correcting you. That's all. I agree that it would be rather ridiculous to expect him to call her mother.

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hmph, what's the best way to convince someone about the course of action? You sit down and explain the plan.

 

something the lord dragon didnt even bother because suprise suprise he has no freakin plan. no idea on what to do when he smashes the seals. I am going to let loose shaitan and begin tarmon gaidon and i have no clue on what's next. But i have to do it because because...... i am bored out of my head.

 

yep we should all go along with it. And people say rand lost all his arrogance. damn why do i even bother? I am out!

 

He told her he would explain everything at the FoM. Also no one here said that she should agree with only that she doesn't need to oppose. Egwene has never said Rand not having a plan as being her reason to oppose him. In fact in her conversation with Elayne and Nyneave she says that Rand should be able to reseal the DO (showing that she doesn't doubt his knowledge or ability to reseal him) without breaking the seals (showing that what she cares about is the seals not being broken). Never anything about Rand not having a plan.

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I actually think the FoM are going to be rather disappointing. The simple fact is that if the FoM goes uninterrupted by the Shadow then it can only logically end in one way: Egwene taken down a peg or two and I honestly don't know if the universe could keep its very fabric together for that to happen to Eggy Sue.

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I actually think the FoM are going to be rather disappointing. The simple fact is that if the FoM goes uninterrupted by the Shadow then it can only logically end in one way: Egwene taken down a peg or two and I honestly don't know if the universe could keep its very fabric together for that to happen to Eggy Sue.

Which is why the shadow won't stop it ; it's a win-win situation. :p

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Rand showed Egwene far and away more deference than she ever deserved. He announced that he would be visiting, waited until Egwene sent for him, allowed himself to be shielded twice over, called her 'Mother', stopped when she told him not to go and even bowed to her. Like I said before, the point is not that she is necessarily wrong to oppose Rand's plan, it's that she does so without ever once considering that he may be right. A good leader must consider every option carefully, especially in such troubled times. Rand even invited her to come along and discuss everything with him at a later time, yet the possibility that Rand may be right never even crosses her mind.

 

Face it...

 

The Egwene worshipers will not be happy unless Rand falls at Egwene's feet, licks her boots, begs her to tell him exactly what to do and when to do it, and submits himself for complete and utter humiliation for his "wrongs" against the White Tower and, indirectly, her. They won't be happy unless Rand forces all of the Asha'man who bonded Aes Sedai release their AS and allow themselves to be bonded into slavery by the WT. They won't be happy until all the Asha'man are made Warder-slaves. They won't be happy until Rand is publicly humiliated by Egwene and turned into her simpering lapdog. Not surprisingly, all of that is exactly what Egwene wants as well.

 

That said, you are entirely correct. Rand showed her more respect than she deserved, and showed an incredible amount of deference to her (more than he should have shown, IMO). Personally, I think Rand is a fool for humbling himself as much as he has to her, especially given that she treats him like crap, but it's no less than I expected. RJ had a huge hard-on for Egwene's character and was determined to write it so that she always "wins". I think those who salivate in worship at the very mention of Egwene's name will be quite pleased with the final book because, truthfully, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if all I mentioned in the first paragraph is exactly what happens. And when it does, I'll host a book burning party at my house. I've already had all of the nauseatingly overwrought Egwene-worshiping "she's so perfect and everyone must obey her!" I can take in the books.

 

If you think Rand treated Egwene with ANY respect you have your priorities all messed up. It has next to nothing to do with Rand's showmanship at the door to the WT.

 

Humbling himself would be showing up in that same fashion, giving her all the information he had, asking her opinion, planning together, then letting her make the final decision. Being equals would be deciding together after all information was on the table. Instead, he gave her no information, told her what he was going to do, and made a ridiculous suggestion that she "plan" for some unpredictable outcome. Giving someone an impossible task, especially when you have information that could help with that task, is extremely disrespectful. Yeah he made the right noises that the front door, then treated her as another tool in his kit.

 

Why even tell her if he's just going to rush off and do it anyway? He can break the seals without her. But he wanted something from her. What? Seems like he wanted a bunch of monarchs and armies gathered at FoM. Did he ask for that? No, he pushed her buttons to get her to do it. How on earth can you claim that's respectful? Rand's taking a page right out of an Aes Sedai's playbook.

 

We don't want him to kiss, or wash, her feet. We just thought he should meet with her, tell her what he knew, bounced the idea off her to see if she'd agree. Instead, he decided to play her like any other monarch. Saying exactly the right thing to make her oppose him on the seal breaking and gather people to support her side.

Edited by Kael Pyralis
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If you think Rand treated Egwene with ANY respect you have your priorities all messed up. It has next to nothing to do with Rand's showmanship at the door to the WT.

 

Humbling himself would be showing up in that same fashion, giving her all the information he had, asking her opinion, planning together, then letting her make the final decision. Being equals would be deciding together after all information was on the table. Instead, he gave her no information, told her what he was going to do, and made a ridiculous suggestion that she "plan" for some unpredictable outcome. Giving someone an impossible task, especially when you have information that could help with that task, is extremely disrespectful. Yeah he made the right noises that the front door, then treated her as another tool in his kit.

 

*snip*

 

The issue here is that Rand and Egwene are NOT equals in any way. Egwene is just another Queen that Rand needs to get to Merrilor. The Aes Sedai are only accorded so much respect by non-channelers because they have a monopoly on the OP and use it or threaten to use it frequently to make other leaders obey them. We have proof of this, Cadsuane brags about how she bullies sovereigns into listening to her. Rand has no reason to treat the Aes Sedai like goddesses - they cannot bully him. If anything, I think he owes it to the world to stop them from abusing the OP to gain authority. Certainly, he has no reason to act as though The Amyrlin Seat is the equal of The Dragon Reborn.

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You assume that Egwene is an equal to Rand, she is not. There is nobody equal to him, neither in importance nor power. Considering how disrespectful she was towards him while she was merely an accepted and he was the leader of the Aiel, ruler of 3 nations and the Dragon Reborn, I find even the amount of respect he showed her in the hall to be far more than she deserved.

 

And the reason he played her like that? Because Rand knows Egwene, Egwene does not know Rand. She, like a bunch of other females throughout the series, always see men as being inferior, especially when it comes to doing the sensible things. She would never consider him an equal in such a discussion, and would keep things from him, even if he laid out everything he knew, simply because she has the same mindset regarding Rand as she had when she first left The Two Rivers, that he, and all other men, doesn't need to know everything.

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You assume that Egwene is an equal to Rand, she is not. There is nobody equal to him, neither in importance nor power. Considering how disrespectful she was towards him while she was merely an accepted and he was the leader of the Aiel, ruler of 3 nations and the Dragon Reborn, I find even the amount of respect he showed her in the hall to be far more than she deserved.

 

And the reason he played her like that? Because Rand knows Egwene, Egwene does not know Rand. She, like a bunch of other females throughout the series, always see men as being inferior, especially when it comes to doing the sensible things. She would never consider him an equal in such a discussion, and would keep things from him, even if he laid out everything he knew, simply because she has the same mindset regarding Rand as she had when she first left The Two Rivers, that he, and all other men, doesn't need to know everything.

 

Egwene will still be an important leader after the Last Battle -- Rand won't be. So you can argue his relative importance now, but he's a rental. And he, himself, has shown concern for the state of the world post-TG before. Why would he stop now? Egwene is likely his best bet for ensuring that things are put right after he's gone. He should be treating her more as a partner than a pawn.

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Rand showed Egwene far and away more deference than she ever deserved. He announced that he would be visiting, waited until Egwene sent for him, allowed himself to be shielded twice over, called her 'Mother', stopped when she told him not to go and even bowed to her. Like I said before, the point is not that she is necessarily wrong to oppose Rand's plan, it's that she does so without ever once considering that he may be right. A good leader must consider every option carefully, especially in such troubled times. Rand even invited her to come along and discuss everything with him at a later time, yet the possibility that Rand may be right never even crosses her mind.

 

Face it...

 

The Egwene worshipers will not be happy unless Rand falls at Egwene's feet, licks her boots, begs her to tell him exactly what to do and when to do it, and submits himself for complete and utter humiliation for his "wrongs" against the White Tower and, indirectly, her. They won't be happy unless Rand forces all of the Asha'man who bonded Aes Sedai release their AS and allow themselves to be bonded into slavery by the WT. They won't be happy until all the Asha'man are made Warder-slaves. They won't be happy until Rand is publicly humiliated by Egwene and turned into her simpering lapdog. Not surprisingly, all of that is exactly what Egwene wants as well.

 

That said, you are entirely correct. Rand showed her more respect than she deserved, and showed an incredible amount of deference to her (more than he should have shown, IMO). Personally, I think Rand is a fool for humbling himself as much as he has to her, especially given that she treats him like crap, but it's no less than I expected. RJ had a huge hard-on for Egwene's character and was determined to write it so that she always "wins". I think those who salivate in worship at the very mention of Egwene's name will be quite pleased with the final book because, truthfully, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if all I mentioned in the first paragraph is exactly what happens. And when it does, I'll host a book burning party at my house. I've already had all of the nauseatingly overwrought Egwene-worshiping "she's so perfect and everyone must obey her!" I can take in the books.

 

If you think Rand treated Egwene with ANY respect you have your priorities all messed up. It has next to nothing to do with Rand's showmanship at the door to the WT.

 

Humbling himself would be showing up in that same fashion, giving her all the information he had, asking her opinion, planning together, then letting her make the final decision. Being equals would be deciding together after all information was on the table. Instead, he gave her no information, told her what he was going to do, and made a ridiculous suggestion that she "plan" for some unpredictable outcome. Giving someone an impossible task, especially when you have information that could help with that task, is extremely disrespectful. Yeah he made the right noises that the front door, then treated her as another tool in his kit.

 

Why even tell her if he's just going to rush off and do it anyway? He can break the seals without her. But he wanted something from her. What? Seems like he wanted a bunch of monarchs and armies gathered at FoM. Did he ask for that? No, he pushed her buttons to get her to do it. How on earth can you claim that's respectful? Rand's taking a page right out of an Aes Sedai's playbook.

 

We don't want him to kiss, or wash, her feet. We just thought he should meet with her, tell her what he knew, bounced the idea off her to see if she'd agree. Instead, he decided to play her like any other monarch. Saying exactly the right thing to make her oppose him on the seal breaking and gather people to support her side.

 

I hardly think that Rand means for Egwene to come up with a plan on the seals. The hidden meaning behind telling her "to let you plan" was probably "on how you will stop me". Egwene herself noted that he looked amused when he said it.

 

Do you really think the aes sedai would have decided to help Rand if had just asked them. They don't exactly have a favorable opinion of him. Maybe if the aes sedai had shown RAND a shred of respect he would have been inclined to trust them. Even Egwene hasn't waranted his trust. They actually shielded him without him apppearing to be threatening in any way. Most of the aes sedai probably consider him an enemy. In what way does he owe them honesty. Your right he took a page out of the Aes Sedai's playbook, and perhaps if the aes sedai were not so arrogant they would have seen that. As it is he showed utmost respect for egwene's position and you'll notice he didn't lie once in the whole meeting. He told them he remembered LTT's whole life and he even partly told them why the seals had to be broken (the rubble must be cleared). Did the aes sedai and Egwene believe him? No.

 

If anything their reaction proves that, in my opinion, Rand was quite right not to trust them.

Edited by Master Ablar
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No, he does not, the seal is his responsible, it's a matter of his war and his victory. That is not a matter in which Egwene will EVER be his equal, he is the sacrifice for the rest of them to survive. The purpose of the meeting at FOM I suspect, is for him to make sure that the world afterwards does not descend into war, but rather that a global peace is enforced. For that, Egwene is merely another monarch.

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You assume that Egwene is an equal to Rand, she is not. There is nobody equal to him, neither in importance nor power. Considering how disrespectful she was towards him while she was merely an accepted and he was the leader of the Aiel, ruler of 3 nations and the Dragon Reborn, I find even the amount of respect he showed her in the hall to be far more than she deserved.

 

And the reason he played her like that? Because Rand knows Egwene, Egwene does not know Rand. She, like a bunch of other females throughout the series, always see men as being inferior, especially when it comes to doing the sensible things. She would never consider him an equal in such a discussion, and would keep things from him, even if he laid out everything he knew, simply because she has the same mindset regarding Rand as she had when she first left The Two Rivers, that he, and all other men, doesn't need to know everything.

 

Egwene will still be an important leader after the Last Battle -- Rand won't be. So you can argue his relative importance now, but he's a rental. And he, himself, has shown concern for the state of the world post-TG before. Why would he stop now? Egwene is likely his best bet for ensuring that things are put right after he's gone. He should be treating her more as a partner than a pawn.

 

A rental? Sure, but the world is doomed without this particular rental. Not so with Egwene. So the WT will lose face in front of the rest of the world. Big deal, it could do them, and the rest of the world, a favor.

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He did take a page out of the AS playbook. It's obvs he was manipulating Egewne and pushing her buttons to get this type of reaction, we just haven't seen what his end game is yet.

 

ToM

Light knows I don't need to do anything else to make Egwene angry

 

ToM

I've poured hot oil into the White Tower and it will be boiling soon....I will get help to Lan, I vow it to you, but right now I must prepare to face Egwene
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Egwene will still be an important leader after the Last Battle -- Rand won't be. So you can argue his relative importance now, but he's a rental. And he, himself, has shown concern for the state of the world post-TG before. Why would he stop now? Egwene is likely his best bet for ensuring that things are put right after he's gone. He should be treating her more as a partner than a pawn.

 

The fact of the matter is that we have no idea what will happen to Rand after the Last Battle. He might die. He might live. He might remain in the public eye, or he might retire somewhere quiet to live out the rest of his life in peace. If he does live, he will be greatly revered - the Fourth Age histories scattered throughout the novels seem to paint him as a wonderful Messiah figure. To describe him as a 'Rental' is a joke; history will likely remember the Dragon for far longer than it will remember an Amyrlin Seat.

 

In any case the White Tower's power will be greatly diminished after TG. We have the Wise Ones, the Windfinders and the Black Tower as rival organisations. No matter what happens the Aes Sedai will never be as powerful and influential as they were when the books began. Egwene is just another ruler, albiet one who currently has more influence than the rest.

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Rand showed Egwene far and away more deference than she ever deserved. He announced that he would be visiting, waited until Egwene sent for him, allowed himself to be shielded twice over, called her 'Mother', stopped when she told him not to go and even bowed to her. Like I said before, the point is not that she is necessarily wrong to oppose Rand's plan, it's that she does so without ever once considering that he may be right. A good leader must consider every option carefully, especially in such troubled times. Rand even invited her to come along and discuss everything with him at a later time, yet the possibility that Rand may be right never even crosses her mind.

 

Face it...

 

The Egwene worshipers will not be happy unless Rand falls at Egwene's feet, licks her boots, begs her to tell him exactly what to do and when to do it, and submits himself for complete and utter humiliation for his "wrongs" against the White Tower and, indirectly, her. They won't be happy unless Rand forces all of the Asha'man who bonded Aes Sedai release their AS and allow themselves to be bonded into slavery by the WT. They won't be happy until all the Asha'man are made Warder-slaves. They won't be happy until Rand is publicly humiliated by Egwene and turned into her simpering lapdog. Not surprisingly, all of that is exactly what Egwene wants as well.

 

That said, you are entirely correct. Rand showed her more respect than she deserved, and showed an incredible amount of deference to her (more than he should have shown, IMO). Personally, I think Rand is a fool for humbling himself as much as he has to her, especially given that she treats him like crap, but it's no less than I expected. RJ had a huge hard-on for Egwene's character and was determined to write it so that she always "wins". I think those who salivate in worship at the very mention of Egwene's name will be quite pleased with the final book because, truthfully, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if all I mentioned in the first paragraph is exactly what happens. And when it does, I'll host a book burning party at my house. I've already had all of the nauseatingly overwrought Egwene-worshiping "she's so perfect and everyone must obey her!" I can take in the books.

 

If you think Rand treated Egwene with ANY respect you have your priorities all messed up. It has next to nothing to do with Rand's showmanship at the door to the WT.

 

Humbling himself would be showing up in that same fashion, giving her all the information he had, asking her opinion, planning together, then letting her make the final decision. Being equals would be deciding together after all information was on the table. Instead, he gave her no information, told her what he was going to do, and made a ridiculous suggestion that she "plan" for some unpredictable outcome. Giving someone an impossible task, especially when you have information that could help with that task, is extremely disrespectful. Yeah he made the right noises that the front door, then treated her as another tool in his kit.

 

Why even tell her if he's just going to rush off and do it anyway? He can break the seals without her. But he wanted something from her. What? Seems like he wanted a bunch of monarchs and armies gathered at FoM. Did he ask for that? No, he pushed her buttons to get her to do it. How on earth can you claim that's respectful? Rand's taking a page right out of an Aes Sedai's playbook.

 

We don't want him to kiss, or wash, her feet. We just thought he should meet with her, tell her what he knew, bounced the idea off her to see if she'd agree. Instead, he decided to play her like any other monarch. Saying exactly the right thing to make her oppose him on the seal breaking and gather people to support her side.

 

*can't help himself from returning to this thread*

 

it's amazing that at the height of lews therin power when he wore the ring of tamyrlin he still discussed his plans for sealing the bore with latra and the female aes sedai. Infact he only went ahead with his plan once the female plan for sealing the bore went up in smoke.

 

Whereas rand or should i say lews therin 2.0 strolls in to the house of the aes sedai, tells them what he's going to do, declines an invitation from egwene to plan and simply goes yeah meet up in some location. bye see ya! And people call egwene arrogant.

Edited by Elan Tedronai
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Egwene will still be an important leader after the Last Battle -- Rand won't be. So you can argue his relative importance now, but he's a rental. And he, himself, has shown concern for the state of the world post-TG before. Why would he stop now? Egwene is likely his best bet for ensuring that things are put right after he's gone. He should be treating her more as a partner than a pawn.

 

Egwene would not be very high on my list of people who could put the world right after the Last Battle, unless you mean put the world right into the pocket of the corrupt and immoral White Tower. She is in no way, shape or form Rand's partner. Hell, even among Aes Sedai he outranks her. He was and is the First Among Servants from the Age of Legends, leader of an organisation with millions of members that spanned the entire globe and was universally respected. Egwene is the Amyrlin Seat of a small group of channelers who rule a single city (which would likely have been considered a small town by the standards of a more developed age like LTTs) and sees fit to meddle in other places where they are not welcomed. She has two decades of experiance in a world so backwards they have not yet developed indoor plumbing. He has more than four centuries of experiance in a world that had eliminated poverty, disease, most crime and managed to build ships that could travel in space as the tales of Lem and his eagle tell us. You want to compare a self-absorbed inkeepers daughter to the reincarnation of Lews Therin Telamon? Really? Partners? Equals? Thats absurd.

 

I know its widely accepted that Rand dissapears after Tarmon Gaidon but I'm not so sure thats how it will go. We've seen a future in which Rand dies or withdraws from the world and Egwene remains an important leader; it ended with the destruction of pretty much every culture that wasn't Seanchan, including the White Tower. How will Rand react when he learns of that? I could see him deciding to stick around and use his centuries of experiance and knowledge from an enlightened space-age society to build a new Age of Legends. Heck, I'd consider it pretty irresponsible of him if he didn't, knowing what Aviendha saw and what the leaders of the world managed to do once he was gone.

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Rand showed Egwene far and away more deference than she ever deserved. He announced that he would be visiting, waited until Egwene sent for him, allowed himself to be shielded twice over, called her 'Mother', stopped when she told him not to go and even bowed to her. Like I said before, the point is not that she is necessarily wrong to oppose Rand's plan, it's that she does so without ever once considering that he may be right. A good leader must consider every option carefully, especially in such troubled times. Rand even invited her to come along and discuss everything with him at a later time, yet the possibility that Rand may be right never even crosses her mind.

 

Face it...

 

The Egwene worshipers will not be happy unless Rand falls at Egwene's feet, licks her boots, begs her to tell him exactly what to do and when to do it, and submits himself for complete and utter humiliation for his "wrongs" against the White Tower and, indirectly, her. They won't be happy unless Rand forces all of the Asha'man who bonded Aes Sedai release their AS and allow themselves to be bonded into slavery by the WT. They won't be happy until all the Asha'man are made Warder-slaves. They won't be happy until Rand is publicly humiliated by Egwene and turned into her simpering lapdog. Not surprisingly, all of that is exactly what Egwene wants as well.

 

That said, you are entirely correct. Rand showed her more respect than she deserved, and showed an incredible amount of deference to her (more than he should have shown, IMO). Personally, I think Rand is a fool for humbling himself as much as he has to her, especially given that she treats him like crap, but it's no less than I expected. RJ had a huge hard-on for Egwene's character and was determined to write it so that she always "wins". I think those who salivate in worship at the very mention of Egwene's name will be quite pleased with the final book because, truthfully, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if all I mentioned in the first paragraph is exactly what happens. And when it does, I'll host a book burning party at my house. I've already had all of the nauseatingly overwrought Egwene-worshiping "she's so perfect and everyone must obey her!" I can take in the books.

 

If you think Rand treated Egwene with ANY respect you have your priorities all messed up. It has next to nothing to do with Rand's showmanship at the door to the WT.

 

Humbling himself would be showing up in that same fashion, giving her all the information he had, asking her opinion, planning together, then letting her make the final decision. Being equals would be deciding together after all information was on the table. Instead, he gave her no information, told her what he was going to do, and made a ridiculous suggestion that she "plan" for some unpredictable outcome. Giving someone an impossible task, especially when you have information that could help with that task, is extremely disrespectful. Yeah he made the right noises that the front door, then treated her as another tool in his kit.

 

Why even tell her if he's just going to rush off and do it anyway? He can break the seals without her. But he wanted something from her. What? Seems like he wanted a bunch of monarchs and armies gathered at FoM. Did he ask for that? No, he pushed her buttons to get her to do it. How on earth can you claim that's respectful? Rand's taking a page right out of an Aes Sedai's playbook.

 

We don't want him to kiss, or wash, her feet. We just thought he should meet with her, tell her what he knew, bounced the idea off her to see if she'd agree. Instead, he decided to play her like any other monarch. Saying exactly the right thing to make her oppose him on the seal breaking and gather people to support her side.

 

*can't help himself from returning to this thread*

 

it's amazing that at the height of lews therin power when he wore the ring of tamyrlin he still discussed his plans for sealing the bore with latra and the female aes sedai. Infact he only went ahead with his plan once the female plan for sealing the bore went up in smoke.

 

Whereas rand or should i say lews therin 2.0 strolls in to the house of the aes sedai, tells them what he's going to do, declines an invitation from egwene to plan and simply goes yeah meet up in some location. bye see ya! And people call egwene arrogant.

 

Well LPD and the female aes sedai of the AoL were rather more knowledgable of the subject at hand than the current WT wouldn't you say? Not to mention he was aes sedai himself and had certain obligations to them. Rand has no such obligation to the current aes sedai.

 

And really Egwene's invitation to plan, was likely just going to turn out to be her and the rest of the aes sedai that this was crazy and he couldn't do this. That's what she's been repeating for the entire book after all, starting about half a page after her invitation to plan. And half a page seems a very short time to go from "this is a posibility, let's think about it", to "this plan is completely crazy, we will stop you".

Edited by Master Ablar
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Egwene will still be an important leader after the Last Battle -- Rand won't be. So you can argue his relative importance now, but he's a rental. And he, himself, has shown concern for the state of the world post-TG before. Why would he stop now? Egwene is likely his best bet for ensuring that things are put right after he's gone. He should be treating her more as a partner than a pawn.

 

The fact of the matter is that we have no idea what will happen to Rand after the Last Battle. He might die. He might live. He might remain in the public eye, or he might retire somewhere quiet to live out the rest of his life in peace. If he does live, he will be greatly revered - the Fourth Age histories scattered throughout the novels seem to paint him as a wonderful Messiah figure. To describe him as a 'Rental' is a joke; history will likely remember the Dragon for far longer than it will remember an Amyrlin Seat.

 

In any case the White Tower's power will be greatly diminished after TG. We have the Wise Ones, the Windfinders and the Black Tower as rival organisations. No matter what happens the Aes Sedai will never be as powerful and influential as they were when the books began. Egwene is just another ruler, albiet one who currently has more influence than the rest.

 

 

 

hate to break it to you but once rand retires the supreme leader or all chanellers would be egwene and logain.

 

not nynaeve, moraine, silvia, cadsuane or anybody else. Egwene herself

 

The black tower will be vapourised and the aes sedai will clean up all the mess rand allowed to fester with taim and his cronies. The ashaman under logain will move in with aes sedai in tar valon with that massive tower elaida was building.

 

once tarmon gaidon is over, it will be left to egwene and logain to take over the reins. The wiseones, sea folk and the kin are all tied to the bargain made by egwene.

 

so yeah, all the folks here hoping for a massive power degrade for the white tower will be very disappointed come the end of AMOL.

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Egwene will still be an important leader after the Last Battle -- Rand won't be. So you can argue his relative importance now, but he's a rental. And he, himself, has shown concern for the state of the world post-TG before. Why would he stop now? Egwene is likely his best bet for ensuring that things are put right after he's gone. He should be treating her more as a partner than a pawn.

 

The fact of the matter is that we have no idea what will happen to Rand after the Last Battle. He might die. He might live. He might remain in the public eye, or he might retire somewhere quiet to live out the rest of his life in peace. If he does live, he will be greatly revered - the Fourth Age histories scattered throughout the novels seem to paint him as a wonderful Messiah figure. To describe him as a 'Rental' is a joke; history will likely remember the Dragon for far longer than it will remember an Amyrlin Seat.

 

In any case the White Tower's power will be greatly diminished after TG. We have the Wise Ones, the Windfinders and the Black Tower as rival organisations. No matter what happens the Aes Sedai will never be as powerful and influential as they were when the books began. Egwene is just another ruler, albiet one who currently has more influence than the rest.

 

 

 

hate to break it to you but once rand retires the supreme leader or all chanellers would be egwene and logain.

 

not nynaeve, moraine, silvia, cadsuane or anybody else. Egwene herself

 

The black tower will be vapourised and the aes sedai will clean up all the mess rand allowed to fester with taim and his cronies. The ashaman under logain will move in with aes sedai in tar valon with that massive tower elaida was building.

 

once tarmon gaidon is over, it will be left to egwene and logain to take over the reins. The wiseones, sea folk and the kin are all tied to the bargain made by egwene.

 

so yeah, all the folks here hoping for a massive power degrade for the white tower will be very disappointed come the end of AMOL.

 

 

So tell me, what else happens in aMoL?

 

More seriously, you really think that the hatred between male and female is just going to evaporate like that, and the aes sedai are going to accept male channelers into their city?

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Egwene will still be an important leader after the Last Battle -- Rand won't be. So you can argue his relative importance now, but he's a rental. And he, himself, has shown concern for the state of the world post-TG before. Why would he stop now? Egwene is likely his best bet for ensuring that things are put right after he's gone. He should be treating her more as a partner than a pawn.

 

The fact of the matter is that we have no idea what will happen to Rand after the Last Battle. He might die. He might live. He might remain in the public eye, or he might retire somewhere quiet to live out the rest of his life in peace. If he does live, he will be greatly revered - the Fourth Age histories scattered throughout the novels seem to paint him as a wonderful Messiah figure. To describe him as a 'Rental' is a joke; history will likely remember the Dragon for far longer than it will remember an Amyrlin Seat.

 

In any case the White Tower's power will be greatly diminished after TG. We have the Wise Ones, the Windfinders and the Black Tower as rival organisations. No matter what happens the Aes Sedai will never be as powerful and influential as they were when the books began. Egwene is just another ruler, albiet one who currently has more influence than the rest.

 

 

 

hate to break it to you but once rand retires the supreme leader or all chanellers would be egwene and logain.

 

not nynaeve, moraine, silvia, cadsuane or anybody else. Egwene herself

 

The black tower will be vapourised and the aes sedai will clean up all the mess rand allowed to fester with taim and his cronies. The ashaman under logain will move in with aes sedai in tar valon with that massive tower elaida was building.

 

once tarmon gaidon is over, it will be left to egwene and logain to take over the reins. The wiseones, sea folk and the kin are all tied to the bargain made by egwene.

 

so yeah, all the folks here hoping for a massive power degrade for the white tower will be very disappointed come the end of AMOL.

 

 

So tell me, what else happens in aMoL?

 

More seriously, you really think that the hatred between male and female is just going to evaporate like that, and the aes sedai are going to accept male channelers into their city?

 

I might have phrased it diff but I do think this is the most likely scenario for the Ashaman and Logain(his glory). The WT needs a balance post TG. Just fits perfect with RJ's overall theme of balance for the story and remember.

 

"The greatest feats of the Age of Legends were done by men and women working together with the One Power"

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Egwene will still be an important leader after the Last Battle -- Rand won't be. So you can argue his relative importance now, but he's a rental. And he, himself, has shown concern for the state of the world post-TG before. Why would he stop now? Egwene is likely his best bet for ensuring that things are put right after he's gone. He should be treating her more as a partner than a pawn.

 

The fact of the matter is that we have no idea what will happen to Rand after the Last Battle. He might die. He might live. He might remain in the public eye, or he might retire somewhere quiet to live out the rest of his life in peace. If he does live, he will be greatly revered - the Fourth Age histories scattered throughout the novels seem to paint him as a wonderful Messiah figure. To describe him as a 'Rental' is a joke; history will likely remember the Dragon for far longer than it will remember an Amyrlin Seat.

 

In any case the White Tower's power will be greatly diminished after TG. We have the Wise Ones, the Windfinders and the Black Tower as rival organisations. No matter what happens the Aes Sedai will never be as powerful and influential as they were when the books began. Egwene is just another ruler, albiet one who currently has more influence than the rest.

 

 

 

hate to break it to you but once rand retires the supreme leader or all chanellers would be egwene and logain.

 

not nynaeve, moraine, silvia, cadsuane or anybody else. Egwene herself

 

The black tower will be vapourised and the aes sedai will clean up all the mess rand allowed to fester with taim and his cronies. The ashaman under logain will move in with aes sedai in tar valon with that massive tower elaida was building.

 

once tarmon gaidon is over, it will be left to egwene and logain to take over the reins. The wiseones, sea folk and the kin are all tied to the bargain made by egwene.

 

so yeah, all the folks here hoping for a massive power degrade for the white tower will be very disappointed come the end of AMOL.

 

 

So tell me, what else happens in aMoL?

 

More seriously, you really think that the hatred between male and female is just going to evaporate like that, and the aes sedai are going to accept male channelers into their city?

 

I might have phrased it diff but I do think this is the most likely scenario for the Ashaman and Logain(his glory). The WT needs a balance post TG. Just fits perfect with RJ's overall theme of balance for the story and remember.

 

"The greatest feats of the Age of Legends were done by men and women working together with the One Power"

 

Well I expect it to happen eventually, but for it to happen straight away after the Last Battle seems unreasonable. Too much bad blood. Besides, what reason would the ashaman have to want to attach themselves to the WT and the aes sedai?

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We've seen a future in which Rand dies or withdraws from the world and Egwene remains an important leader; it ended with the destruction of pretty much every culture that wasn't Seanchan, including the White Tower.

None of Aviendha's visions said anything about Egwene or an Amyrlin, so we don't know whether she survived the Last Battle or remained an important leader in that particular future. The fact that the Tower was barely mentioned by the Aiel suggests they had little to no contact with it, and the Black Tower also appears to have remained separate from the WT:

 

The Ravens were unstoppable; now that Tar Valon had fallen, every realm in the wetlands was subject to the Seanchan. Only the Black Tower still fought, though the Asha'man did so in secret, as their fortress had fallen years before.
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None of Aviendha's visions said anything about Egwene or an Amyrlin, so we don't know whether she survived the Last Battle or remained an important leader in that particular future. The fact that the Tower was barely mentioned by the Aiel suggests they had little to no contact with it, and the Black Tower also appears to have remained separate from the WT:

 

The Ravens were unstoppable; now that Tar Valon had fallen, every realm in the wetlands was subject to the Seanchan. Only the Black Tower still fought, though the Asha'man did so in secret, as their fortress had fallen years before.

 

True we dont know that she didn't simply die at Tarmon Gaidon, but the lack of deaths in the series so far make me doubt that the final book will see more than a few token sacrifices. If Egwene was to be considered a prominent figure who could prevent that future I think she would have been mentioned at least once. Tuon and Rand were instead put forward as the guys who could have made a difference if they had still been there. Egwene is too much of a traditionalist to build a future IMO, I very much doubt she will be considered the hope of a post-Tarmon Gaidon world.

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Egwene will still be an important leader after the Last Battle -- Rand won't be. So you can argue his relative importance now, but he's a rental. And he, himself, has shown concern for the state of the world post-TG before. Why would he stop now? Egwene is likely his best bet for ensuring that things are put right after he's gone. He should be treating her more as a partner than a pawn.

 

The fact of the matter is that we have no idea what will happen to Rand after the Last Battle. He might die. He might live. He might remain in the public eye, or he might retire somewhere quiet to live out the rest of his life in peace. If he does live, he will be greatly revered - the Fourth Age histories scattered throughout the novels seem to paint him as a wonderful Messiah figure. To describe him as a 'Rental' is a joke; history will likely remember the Dragon for far longer than it will remember an Amyrlin Seat.

 

In any case the White Tower's power will be greatly diminished after TG. We have the Wise Ones, the Windfinders and the Black Tower as rival organisations. No matter what happens the Aes Sedai will never be as powerful and influential as they were when the books began. Egwene is just another ruler, albiet one who currently has more influence than the rest.

 

What actually happens to Rand is irrelevant. He is operating under the assumption that he will die. And given that, he does think about setting up post-TG provisions, like his Universities. There is also the seanchan if they aren't dealt with first, the Aiel, and the rulerless, weak, or destabilized wetland regions. The White Tower could would should help with all of those.

 

And the WT is corrupt. But their dirty laundry is out for all to see, and nothing disinfects better that sunlight. And furthermore, little rich slamming Aes Sedai when the Asha'man are rotten to the core. Rand isn't really in a place to judge.

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Egwene will still be an important leader after the Last Battle -- Rand won't be. So you can argue his relative importance now, but he's a rental. And he, himself, has shown concern for the state of the world post-TG before. Why would he stop now? Egwene is likely his best bet for ensuring that things are put right after he's gone. He should be treating her more as a partner than a pawn.

 

The fact of the matter is that we have no idea what will happen to Rand after the Last Battle. He might die. He might live. He might remain in the public eye, or he might retire somewhere quiet to live out the rest of his life in peace. If he does live, he will be greatly revered - the Fourth Age histories scattered throughout the novels seem to paint him as a wonderful Messiah figure. To describe him as a 'Rental' is a joke; history will likely remember the Dragon for far longer than it will remember an Amyrlin Seat.

 

In any case the White Tower's power will be greatly diminished after TG. We have the Wise Ones, the Windfinders and the Black Tower as rival organisations. No matter what happens the Aes Sedai will never be as powerful and influential as they were when the books began. Egwene is just another ruler, albiet one who currently has more influence than the rest.

 

What actually happens to Rand is irrelevant. He is operating under the assumption that he will die. And given that, he does think about setting up post-TG provisions, like his Universities. There is also the seanchan if they aren't dealt with first, the Aiel, and the rulerless, weak, or destabilized wetland regions. The White Tower could would should help with all of those.

 

And the WT is corrupt. But their dirty laundry is out for all to see, and nothing disinfects better that sunlight. And furthermore, little rich slamming Aes Sedai when the Asha'man are rotten to the core. Rand isn't really in a place to judge.

 

What do the ashaman have to do with this?

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Egwene will still be an important leader after the Last Battle -- Rand won't be. So you can argue his relative importance now, but he's a rental. And he, himself, has shown concern for the state of the world post-TG before. Why would he stop now? Egwene is likely his best bet for ensuring that things are put right after he's gone. He should be treating her more as a partner than a pawn.

 

The fact of the matter is that we have no idea what will happen to Rand after the Last Battle. He might die. He might live. He might remain in the public eye, or he might retire somewhere quiet to live out the rest of his life in peace. If he does live, he will be greatly revered - the Fourth Age histories scattered throughout the novels seem to paint him as a wonderful Messiah figure. To describe him as a 'Rental' is a joke; history will likely remember the Dragon for far longer than it will remember an Amyrlin Seat.

 

In any case the White Tower's power will be greatly diminished after TG. We have the Wise Ones, the Windfinders and the Black Tower as rival organisations. No matter what happens the Aes Sedai will never be as powerful and influential as they were when the books began. Egwene is just another ruler, albiet one who currently has more influence than the rest.

 

What actually happens to Rand is irrelevant. He is operating under the assumption that he will die. And given that, he does think about setting up post-TG provisions, like his Universities. There is also the seanchan if they aren't dealt with first, the Aiel, and the rulerless, weak, or destabilized wetland regions. The White Tower could would should help with all of those.

 

And the WT is corrupt. But their dirty laundry is out for all to see, and nothing disinfects better that sunlight. And furthermore, little rich slamming Aes Sedai when the Asha'man are rotten to the core. Rand isn't really in a place to judge.

 

What do the ashaman have to do with this?

 

We're talking about Rands motivations and why or why not he should show more or less respect to Egwene. I highly doubt Rand would be thinking "screw those corrupt Aes Sedai, and their blindness of what goes on in their own ranks" when he's the one who created and neglected the AMs. Pot meet kettle, basically.

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