The new age will no longer have Channelers

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

Unless....... *random thought* The Creator can't destroy, period. Being the 'creator' it stands to reason that he only has the power to create, not to destroy. Destruction being the DO's domain. And as people have deducted that the DO can't create (only corrupt what has been created), it may be that the creator in turn can't destroy. Hmmmmm....... food for thought.

 

but there is no creation without destruction.

 

i'll say again, because i don't recall the thread where i realized this, but i don't think either the light or the dark has ever won a complete victoy. i think it's been an eternal draw, and must continue to be an eternal draw, or the game would be over, as RJ said. if anyone had won a total victory, they'd be out of play.

[Hyronimus]

while i am happily convinced that channelling will continue antill...that's another story...for a time i thought the thinning in the pattern that led to the discovery of the bore was due to use of the one power drawing energy from the threading of the pattern. fortunatly this idea is full of holes .

[Wheel of Thyme]

Hi all....

If time in the WoT universe remains cyclical, yes, channeling will dissapear somehow. I dont really agree that the Aes Sedai took any significant act in culling the ability to channel from mankind, despite what Robert Jordan wrote. I CAN agree, however, that they may have culled the SPARKERS somewhat. I know, disagreeing with the AUTHOR may be an extreme height of hubris, as the author is god in his world, but its possible Robert Jordan was not as aware of biology as he might have been and thus not as specific as he could have been.

 

Aes Sedai were not very good at swelling their numbers; that we have seen. So, vast numbers of women who COULD channel were never trained to channel. The same goes with men. The Aes Sedai only went after those men who sparked, already showed ability to channel and who already channeled. Those few men did not at all comprise the totality of channeling men; men who were NOT sparkers but could learn if taught were left alone; Aes Sedai had no means to detect them and so they passed ungentled and unnoted.

 

These men did not know who they were, and the many women who could be taught to channel but were not also did not know what they could do...so they easily may have wed, and bred other generations of children with the ability to channel, IF taught.

 

However men who spark, manifest the ability, were caught and gentled. I assume gentling did not change their DNA; had these gentled men bred, its conceivable that the sparker gene would have passed on as well. Women sparkers however, died, generally young and before they had kids, if they were not found by Aes Sedai, and once they were Aes Sedai, those women generally had no children. So I can believe SPARKERS were being culled; then again, the sparker trait is a lethal one UNLESS a channeler knows how to save that young persons life.

 

Then again, it was Robert Jordan's World...and so, all he said about it had to be true; science must adapt to the whims of the Author :)

 

On the new age, however...I agree, there will be channelers.

[Jimvzyl]

Everyone is reborn. Culling would only effectively reduce numbers until we saw those threads being rewoven. Channeling is tied to the soul in its male or female form.

Its up for argument as to whether the fact that so many male channelers have died, and it would take them 4 ages to be reborn, that the ability may be in decline. Same can be said about the teaching of women I guess.

 

We need to know how long it takes for a person to be reborn , in general.

[bscuga]

I don't know specifically about the new age not having channelers, especially with Avi's viewing in the Towers of Midnight indicating channeling still exists. However, with RJ's view of everything being in balance and the yin and the yang; I believe that the following will occur in one of the 7 ages.

 

In no specific order (meaning that age 1 is not really age 1 and so forth).

 

Age 1 - normal channeling - men and women and no technology

Age 2 - only men channeling (the balance of the current age of only women being the main channelers for most of the age)

Age 3 - only women channeling (the current age)

Age 4 - strong channeling (the Age of Legends)

Age 5 - no channeling (the opposite of the Age of Legends) - this ends with the discovery of channeling

Age 6 - normal channeling used with technology

Age 7 - technology with minor channeling or no channeling (opposite of above and my age 1) - technology being the "magic"

 

All of the ages above balance each other out over time with men and women each being able to channel in one age each, there being a strong age (AOL) and weak (or no channeling) age, with and without technology and channeling or no channeling and finally just normal channeling - no too strong or weak channelers.

[DemandredFO]

I would mind AMoL being split because I want everything that needs to be. I don't want it rushed. like Pevara being awesome

[jemron]

Do Min's viewings still "work" if the Pattern is no longer cyclical? I mean, if time becomes linear, then Min's ability to "read the Pattern" would no longer exist/be valid. So, just because Min saw certain viewings doesn't actually mean they'll happen. They will if the Pattern and cyclical time continue, but not if (1) The DO breaks free or (2) The Pattern is somehow rebuilt or replaced to turn time into linear rather than cyclical.

[randsc]

I don't think Herid's argument is watertight.

 

There is a woman who we know from Min's viewings has two characteristics. First, that she will be Aes Sedai. Second, that she is able to learn to channel. The viewing does NOT indicate that she WILL learn to channel. It is entirely possible that she will be an Aes Sedai in a non-channeling future.

 

All of the supposed "arrangements" for future relations between channeling groups could still be useful in the absence of channeling.

 

What we do know for sure is that if the DO doesn't win, there will come an Age without channeling. And that Age will come BEFORE the next Age of Legends.

 

I think that there is very significant evidence in the books that the coming Age will be an Age of technology.

[herid]

I don't think Herid's argument is watertight.

 

There is a woman who we know from Min's viewings has two characteristics. First, that she will be Aes Sedai. Second, that she is able to learn to channel. The viewing does NOT indicate that she WILL learn to channel. It is entirely possible that she will be an Aes Sedai in a non-channeling future.

 

All of the supposed "arrangements" for future relations between channeling groups could still be useful in the absence of channeling.

 

What we do know for sure is that if the DO doesn't win, there will come an Age without channeling. And that Age will come BEFORE the next Age of Legends.

 

I think that there is very significant evidence in the books that the coming Age will be an Age of technology.

I'm not sure if you were serious or just bored but in cased it's the former, yes, technically speaking you are correct, it doesn't say that the woman WILL learn to channel but this is a rather small hole to try to wiggle through. the meaning is quite clear here. to get around the issue you have to assume that this is both a ruse and Min is misinterpreting it and that there will be an Aes Sedai organization (teaching women what exactly?) after channeling disappears. also, I certainly disagree that it makes sense to spend time detailing future organization of women channelers if channeling were to disappear. It makes no sense at all and only takes highly valuable screen time. Really, what possible reason could there be to describe detailed arrangement for the Kin in Caemlyn including which channeling services would be free and which not if channeling was going away?

[MichaelOfTheWhite]

In order to entirely block the DO from the world, Rand will also have to block off the OP. His children will not go on to destroy the Aiel and become avatars. Instead, the world will turn away from the OP over time, allowing science to bring us to today's age... until someone bores a hole into the DO's prison once more, or once again learns to channel.

[paetric]

In order to entirely block the DO from the world, Rand will also have to block off the OP. His children will not go on to destroy the Aiel and become avatars. Instead, the world will turn away from the OP over time, allowing science to bring us to today's age... until someone bores a hole into the DO's prison once more, or once again learns to channel.

 

I don't follow your logic. I may be wrong but I thought that during the AOL they had the OP without the presence of the DO. It wasn't until the bore that things went bad.

 

So yeah Rand needs to remake the prison to seal off the DO. Over time he will fade into children stories and legends. As the wheel continues to turn the ability to channel will slowly subside. Eventually Rand and all his antics will just be morphed into another version of Merlin the magician.

[Superhal]

Where does it say both can't exist together? I think clearly in the flashbacks of the AoL, both can be in plentiful amounts.

[Vermillion]

I think the Seachan will eliminate the one power after total domination. Seems that with cannon's being evented and cars the like that there is no need for magic. Especially, going by Avi's visions that they never stopped using channelers. Then you have later visions where there seems to be no channeling just technology.

[Superhal]

Then you have later visions where there seems to be no channeling just technology.

 

That's the riddle of the hiss-staves (Avi's first vision.) She says she found one, but couldn't figure out how to make it work. That means, to me, it works by using standing flows (making an x'greal that people who can't channel can use.)

[ironisles]

Now this just occurred to me..when our Age rolls around again..won't we find artifacts on the Moon from the last time we went there?

[Superhal]

Now this just occurred to me..when our Age rolls around again..won't we find artifacts on the Moon from the last time we went there?

 

From what I can understand of the WoT, there's a lot of leeway for how an Age develops. There's no guarantee that the 2nd time around will be identical to the first.

 

Also, even though there's various references (at this point, I hesitate to call them "clues"), there's no reason to believe Randland is Earth, or that they have the same moon we have.

[randsc]

Actually, there are hundreds of reasons to think that Randland is Earth. Including the direct statements of the author.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

i suspect Toy'varen is trying to encourage discussion by posting things he doesn't necessarily actually believe. please forgive me if i'm mistaken, T., i don't mean any insult by it.

[Superhal]

i suspect Toy'varen is trying to encourage discussion by posting things he doesn't necessarily actually believe. please forgive me if i'm mistaken, T., i don't mean any insult by it.

 

Yep, usually. But in this case, I wasn't sure. After that, I went back and looked at the clues and posted a thread about it in the main forums. I must say it puts the entire universe in a whole different light knowing that RJ simply stole what he needed from Earth and then mixed them up into different cultures.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

and there you are doing it again. . . indefatigable.

[capuga]

I started another thread just like this on the General boards last year:

 

Will there be channeling after the Last Battle

 

Cut and pasted my views on this from that thread:

 

I have seen a few predictions that there will be no channeling after the Last Battle. So I was curious as to what everyone thinks about this.

 

Personally, I think the series has been building towards a new golden age of channeling once the Last Battle is won. Let's look at some of the things that have happened:

 

- Lots of lost Talents such as Traveling and improved Healing have been rediscovered.

- The making of ter'angreal has been rediscovered.

- The existence of channeling groups among various races has been discovered and Egwene plans to tie them all together.

- Saidin is clean and there is now a male channeling organization.

- Men and women have been bonding each other and starting to work together.

- RJ spent a long time building up Egwene to be an awesome Amyrlin and reunite the Tower. Why all that work if she will be irrelevant in a few months?

 

Although it appears that there will be an improvement in technology, the plot is clearly building to an age of channeling marvels, not an age without any channeling at all. The two are not mutually exclusive afterall, we see plenty of high tech in our glimpses of the AoL. I think we're another couple ages away from getting to the point where there is no channeling.

[SheaththeSword]

In order to entirely block the DO from the world, Rand will also have to block off the OP. His children will not go on to destroy the Aiel and become avatars. Instead, the world will turn away from the OP over time, allowing science to bring us to today's age... until someone bores a hole into the DO's prison once more, or once again learns to channel.

And as it fades into our middle ages, Merlin is the last male channeler, up in Aile Dashar/Britain in the cold north aryth ocean, until the Renaissance now coming to Randland finally hits there too? xD (that's a joke, you'd need another breaking to change the continent that much).

 

I originally thought that the rediscovery of lost Talents, weaves and ter'angreal were all indications of the new golden age of channeling, but that does not have to be the case. I mean, there is only likely to be one of these in one Seven-Age cycle, right? We already had AoL in the second, I do not think it can be in the forth.

 

To deal with the new weaves - as Rand is merely fixing what was done poorly in the last Age, namely the sealing of the Bore, I think the recent and very sudden discovery of all these wonderful resources is just the Pattern giving the forces of the Light all they will need to defeat the DO right before the Last Battle. These Talents, Healing weaves and the like are all being revived with objects and sources coming directly form the AoL (few are being discovered independently of AoL influences, Nynaeve being the Major exception) - they are getting one last kick of powerful OP-related resources, until after the LB they will fade from the world. Within the first half of the next Age at the latest.

(There will probably be some very important things done with the OP straight after the LB that will have lasting benefits for humanity, couldn't say what, but that will help usher in the new age of non OP-dependant technology. Hospitals, highways perhaps? I bet Nynaeve dies shortly after the LB, and attacks on Tar Valon help destroy many ter'angreal and written info on the OP).

 

I'm saying there is a parity between the new OP resources and Rand tidying up the half-sealed Bore. Both are coming closer to the conditions at the end of the 2nd age (I mean during the War of Power but before the attack on Shayol Ghul, I think that's still 2nd Age). Both are just an encore to events at the end of Age 2, but the show WILL end after the Last Battle.