Perrin's Arc

[Jon Paul]

I think over-all, excluding Rand, Perrin's arc was the best. He finally matures, he finally surrenders to the Wheel. He finally grows a pair. And surprisingly for me, as I have loathed her from day one, I have come to appreciate Faile and why she is here. I never really saw it at first, but I can see how they compliment each other so well. That leaves one or two things I dislike about her.. such as her maneuvering to keep Perrin and Rand a part and a few culture clashes.

 

But I think the damage is done for Perrin's reputation. Seven books of sucking is a lot. I don't think he will have time to completely redeem himself.

[Shienara]

I am sooooo looking forward to reading this book, especially with Perrin being a major arc. I never really understood all the Perrin hate that abounded over the last few books...Yes, I did find his arc somewhat boring at times, but I always liked Perrin, so I am especially excited that he moves forward in what is apparantly an awesome manner!

[saterade]

Perrin was originally my favorite character. He was thoughtful and considerate in 1, and i felt so bad for him when nothing went his way. He was trying really hard to fit in during the great hunt, and 3 he was all crappy at relationships and it was endearing. 4 was his high point, just plain badass becoming a leader of the 2 rivers. Then he fell off the map for a few books, and once he came back only one word could describe him. Whiny. Even when he was being all awesome general and stepping on bugs that just devoured a man's insides, he was still "i don't wanna!"

All I can say about this book is FINALLY! THE BOYS ARE BACK IN TOWN!

 

he jump started his "giveash***er" and got down to business. He quit moping and blaming the wolves and decided to maybe learn a thing or two. He got back into blacksmithing. And he wolf-dream-jumped back into awesomeville, population Mat and Perrin and one sack-o-badger(eased in, of course).

 

On a final note, as a married man, I extremely liked the picnic scene with perrin and faile. No matter how your life is going, if you're not on the same page with the one you've given your life to, nothing else is going to work for you. He had to fix that before he could start fixing anything else.

[Sharaman]

I have a question. Moggy implied that going to TAR in the flesh made you stronger than going in the dreamwalker way when Rand and Rahvin are fighting. Shouldn't that mean Slayer should be way stronger or does that only apply to channeling?

 

To be fair, Slayer *is* ridiculously strong in T'A'R. Not just physically, he has excellent control over the reality, has apparently learned some nuanced techniques we haven't gotten to see yet (it's not like he's dead, and it's Luc who really hates Perrin,) like healing himself... and while he is now entirely a denizen of T'A'R, he started off as just a human. Egwene has the Dreamer thing backing her up, and Perrin's wolf-soul gives him a huge boost. Isam built up his strength from a normal human baseline.

Well, he had been granted many unusual gifts (WH). One of them may have been exceptional TAR ability.

But he is awesomely good.

 

Edit: Incidentally the portal stone usage clears up two/ three mysteries. 1) shadowspawn attack in the waste 2) Algiarin's manor 3) Ebou Dar- Tylee being ambushed.

Also, it appears that even weak channelers can jump large numbers of trollocs via portal stones so Rand was being inefficient in his usage in TGH and TSR.

 

I agree, but it could also have been the ways... Rand didn't find nearly enough of them and the ones he did should have been destroyed, not guarded. HUGE priority that was neglected by the light

 

The timelines on the algiarin attack and the sheer size of the force has always been a problem for analysis.

We've seen that Waygates aren't that wide. One horse at a time is what we've seen.

Say a max of 3 trollocs side by side and 36 trollocs/ minute (12 ranks @5 seconds a rank)?

If you're talking 100,000 trollocs, you take 48 hours just to get the formation into a Waygate.

Then they march for a couple of days and march out again, taking two days to simply exit at destination.

This assumes machin shin doesn't attack and cause further delays/ attrition.

Now look at the timelines for Moridin telling the Forsaken and the attack on Algiarin's Manor - it doesn't add up unless he's deliberately delayed telling anyone about it.

[Moon Sedai]

I loved the construction of Perrin's new toy,

I love that it's name mimics the name of Thor's hammer.

I like that Perrin has finally seemed to have his 'epiphany.'

now that he's stopped whining, he's become a good character again.

 

 

[Bob T Dwarf]

The timelines on the algiarin attack and the sheer size of the force has always been a problem for analysis.

We've seen that Waygates aren't that wide. One horse at a time is what we've seen.

Say a max of 3 trollocs side by side and 36 trollocs/ minute (12 ranks @5 seconds a rank)?

If you're talking 100,000 trollocs, you take 48 hours just to get the formation into a Waygate.

Then they march for a couple of days and march out again, taking two days to simply exit at destination.

This assumes machin shin doesn't attack and cause further delays/ attrition.

Now look at the timelines for Moridin telling the Forsaken and the attack on Algiarin's Manor - it doesn't add up unless he's deliberately delayed telling anyone about it.

 

Moridin calls that meeting on day 739. The attack happens on day 745. So 6 days between when the meeting is called and the attack.

 

The Trolloc attack was pretty obviously sent to kill Rand before he could Cleanse saidin ( as a result of the previous meeting on day 696 ), and the Cleansing had already happened on day 716, so "Sammael" sent them into the Ways sometime after day 696 and before day 716. Just for giggles let's guess that the Trollocs began entering the Ways on day 711. That gives them 34 days to get to the Waygate nearest Algiarin's Manor and then overland to the Manor and attack. I'd guess that is doable.

 

Why Moridin waited so long to tell the others about it is unknown.

[Dakota]

Was anyone else seriously concerned that Perrin would die in this book? After we read those shadow prophesies (which are another matter we need to discuss) I was worried every time I read a Perrin chapter. But I was also seriously disappointed in how terrible Graendal's plan was... true, she couldn't have anticipated how good Perrin would get in the wolf dream, but I feel like she sat in the backseat on this one. This was her last chance, do or die and she let Isam and a bunch of trollocs do all the work? The same woman who was one of the cleverest of the forsaken and has laster this long? I'm now pondering who it is will be taking over the hunt for Perrin though. Maybe he won't live through the next book

 

I wasn't concerned with him dying. It's been said many times over the course of the series that Rand, Perrin, and Mat all pretty much have to live to the very end in order for the Light to win, and if any of them die (or Rand dies before his due time), then the Shadow wins. I don't think that RJ would have written the series for as long as he did only for it to fail at the end. So yeah, he's under constant threat of danger, but Mat and Perrin definately have plot-induced-immortality going for them.

 

As for Graendal's plan, I agree, it was thoroughly disappointing. The woman who's a master at manipulation, mind control, and all that, and her grand infallible plan for killing Perrin was.... just a bunch of trollocs? I can see her, maybe having Fail killed and driving Perrin into a mad incontrollable rage and make him less on guard and easier to kill with a grey man, something like that. But really? Her trump card, her last chance for redemption in the eyes of the Great Lord, her perfect plan for killing one of the Big Three Good Guys was... just to throw a bunch of trollocs at them?

[Vadik2004]

To be honest, I always felt that Perrin's arc in the previous books was very long, tedious, and boring. Like being cut 1000 times very, VERY slowly. However, this book entirely changed my opinion. His story line here was very exciting and I loved reading it. I loved how his issues with Faile had finally been solved for the most part, after 9 books. Still, I think his scenes here were absolutly awesome.

[Isgrimner]

I am getting kind of worried about Perrin for the next book. Mainly due to that dark prophecy talking about the "Broken Wolf". I'm hope they aren't talking about Perrin being turned to the Shadow. Withall the ties to Norse mythology, I don't want to see Perrin set up as a Fenris Wolf, who kills Odin.

 

Hopefully the Brokon Wolf refers to someone other than Perrin.

[Maji]

Dear Towers of Midnight,

 

Thank you for making it not excruciatingly difficult to read Perrin about Perrin anymore. Ever since he had worried about the wolf taking over he has been on my 'hate list'. Faile being kidnapped for 3 books only compounded this as he lost any amount of spine the character had. I especially enjoyed his scenes in the White Tower other than poor Hopper, poor poor Hopper. The only downside was that you did not finish Slayer off and to that I say "grrr..,booo, hiss."

 

Perrin and Mat finally getting to see one another since the early parts of TSR is pretty awesome, especially with Faile's reaction to Perrin hanging out with our classic Mat. The acorns scene was also hilarious. Thank you

 

The introduction of He Who Soars was also pretty sweet, nice ode to a character who has been with us since the beginning. Still not too thrilled about how Hopper ended up but I think the Hammer with the wolf ensignia was a good send off and tribute to our favorite canine.

 

Thanks again for allowing me to no longer hate one of the main characters, even though I did not want to, but it was unavoidable. It was too much of a spineless twit to enjoy reading about. It was a difficult book to follow after TGS but TofM definitely pulled it off in my humble opinion.

 

Best,

 

Maji :3

[Maji]

I am getting kind of worried about Perrin for the next book. Mainly due to that dark prophecy talking about the "Broken Wolf". I'm hope they aren't talking about Perrin being turned to the Shadow. Withall the ties to Norse mythology, I don't want to see Perrin set up as a Fenris Wolf, who kills Odin.

 

Hopefully the Brokon Wolf refers to someone other than Perrin.

 

 

I'm thinking the broken wolf is in regards to Hopper since there is nothing after you die in Tel'aran'rhiod as far as any of the characters know.

[Owayn The Traveller]

Is anyone else seriously peeved that Hopper died. That's twice that damn wolf made me misty eyed.

 

Have to say I like the way Perrin came to the conclusion that he was back to where he started so long ago before Faile got captured, kinda like when he went off the rails he wasn't doing what he was suppose to do and couldn't develop because he was raging agaisnt the pattern and as soon as he starts to come to terms with himself his story really kicks off. Could explain how powerful or how much Galad got ahead in the whitecloaks, the pattern was trying to get Perrin back in line so it helped out Galad as Perrin needed him to help sort out his problem there.

 

The broken wolf? What really happens when a wolf dies in the wolfdream at the hands of Slayer? He is unusual or special so maybe it leads to different results?

 

Perrin was super awesome in this book and I can see him defeating a forsaken in TAR in the next book. The whole stopping balefire how cool was that and the whole rope thing with Egwene, funny.

[TheAngryDruid]

For me, Perrin's arc was the best arc in the book, and most well done. All of the characters acted wisely and maturely for the most part (Perrin, Faile, Galad, Berelain, even Dain). They thought about what they were doing and did something smart. Other than Nynaeve (who was totally awesome) and Rand (with a couple exceptions), I think this group has come the furthest in terms of development and I really enjoyed it.

 

Getting to some of the stuff we already knew was a bit forced. Morgase's reveal, the trial, Galad/Berelain. But it still was enjoyable, it not action packed. It started out slow, but was well written and thought out, unlike some other parts of the book.

 

The dreamspike revelation was cool. I liked the dream training with Hopper. Perrin was smart enough (well, OK, not right away) to realize he needed to think it out and prepare instead of charging in witless loobie like every other character in the entire series seems to do every single time, but never gets killed (but that is another subject).

 

Hopper's death was tragic and touching, and the forging of the Hammer was a beautiful way to finish it off. Can wolves been reborn to the wheel? I wonder if Hopper will soar at the LB? His unusual devotion has certainly earned it.

 

Loved the scene with Noam/Boundless. Great stuff there. With the Storm of Light chapter and Avi's trip through the columns, my favorite part of the book were Perrin's: his exploits in T'A'R with Hopper/Slayer/Egwene, the forging, and Boudless.

 

The battle with the Trollocs and the battle with Slayer ere epic, as was Perrin going all Neo on Egwene in the Tower. She's still got a ways to go in terms of Dreamwalking. Perrin and Slayer are the real masters.

 

I even liked the date scene with Faile. She really has grown since her captivity, and it was nice to see. Everything doesn't have to be her way. She's come a long way, baby.

 

Even Dain Bornhald comes through in crunch time. There is some good fiber there. Good for him.

[Owayn The Traveller]

Hopper as a hero of the horn? I'd love it!

[Sid]

'When the Wolf King carries the hammer, thus are the final days known.'

Seems to fit even more now.

 

 

I'd be very surprised if Perrin did not end up killing Slayer with his new hammer. He made the thing with the remembrance of his friend in mind, and it seems appropriate revenge. It may bolster his strength in the dream to match Slayer finally.

[Mehn_Deke]

Mjollnir!!!!

 

That's all.

 

[rambling]

'When the Wolf King carries the hammer, thus are the final days known.'

Seems to fit even more now.

 

All we need now is for Tenobia to die and Faile to get the Broken Crown

[MatthewWallace]

So Perrin's arc gets better after his ridiculous date with Faile? I have started just skipping him and Faile altogether because the date scene showed me nothing happens in his chapters to advance the story and nothing has happened in his chapters so far that is even remotely interesting. This books has ground to a halt for me it is so slow. It picks up post ch. 19? I am honestly on the verge on putting it down and not finishing.

 

Yeah! Who wants character development when we can just find out the ending and be done with it!

 

His reconciling of his relationship issues with Faile was an integral part of him settling his personal demons and getting his head out of his you know what. Read the rest of the book and stop being so emo.

[DPT24]

I liked Perrin in this book, but really, I've never had that big of problem with him and Faile, except for Lords of Chaos.

 

Did anyone else notice that almost the ENTIRE Trankand family judged/whinned/threatened/argued with Perrin??? All it would have taken was Gawyn taking a swing at him to complete it... although in the end they all made up. And strangly, Galad and Perrin work together well, since they're both honest and try to do what's right, not playing politics the entire time.

[AnthonyJamesEnglish]

Hopper as a hero of the horn? I'd love it!

 

That.. Would be freaking awesome.

[Phariah]

finally Perrin has accepted he is a leader. i have always been a fan of Perrins. the whole hammer forging scene was great. i mean besides Rand he has been tortured the most. persecuted by whitecloaks, his family slaughtered, forced to become a leader to save his village and friends and loved ones while being fearful he might lose himself and become a madman or lost in the wolfdream. Mat compared to Perrin has been unfettered. Mat is the outgoing devil may care clown. Perrin is the thinker and responsible one. bearing everything on his shoulders. i love him being differant. it would suck if he was another Mat or Rand. i am glad at times for his chapters. his internal battle is intriguing tbh. trying to understand who and what he is. he is so much the honorable warrior / knight.

[Ataxia]

I hope he becomes a hero, otherwise his death is really tragic. Lets just hope he wasn't made a dark hound :(

[Owayn The Traveller]

Hopper as a hero of the horn? I'd love it!

 

That.. Would be freaking awesome.

 

Lets start a campaign. Hopper for Hero of the Horn. Surely you can be elected to that position that not just good deeds do.

 

Possible stupid question coming up, watch out. If Perrin kills Slayer does he have to kill Luc as well or vice versa? I know two souls but one body an all but

[MatthewWallace]

I would assume you kill them dead together. Regardless of the souls its only got one body. Then again, I believe I read somewhere that he has taken on both physical forms in the real world at different points in the books. In other words, he doesn't have to be in TAR to choose who he looks like, he can literally change his physical form at will. If that was correct then not knowing the nature of his 'shape-shifting' its hard to conclude that one.

[Owayn The Traveller]

I can only remember him being Slayer once in the real world and that was in FarMadding and he stepped out of TAR to kill his nephew at least I think that is who he reffered to. If I recall correctly, I usually don't, he picked his form in TAR.