Chapter 1 "Apples First"

[Charlz Guybon]

Am I the only one who assumed the "mercenaries" that cleaned out his farm was the

[Sharaman]

Verin meant thirty days from the time she gave hime the letter - not thirty days from the time he got to Camelyn.

 

 

Fish

Same difference actually since sahe took him there within a "very few hours" of giving him the letter.

[Kaznen]

Am I the only one who assumed the "mercenaries" that cleaned out his farm was the

I seriously doupt Mat would allow the Band to turn brigand, let alone loot Almen Bunt's farm. I have a feeling that kind old man who helped him and Rand when they were on their last leg is one of the few things he remembers from that period.

 

And when you factor in the time it would take for a letter to get from a farm outside Caemlyn to a farm outside TV, I'm betting the Band wasn't even in the area when it happened.

 

Remember, the Band would hang "Dragonsworn" for doing just what happened to Bunt's farm.

[Rufae]

I always thought that Verin went to Egwene just a couple of days after leaving Matt, makes the most sense to me.

 

If I recall, Mat saw several other letters in Verin's bag which were yet to be delivered. So she would not have gone directly to Egwene, she would go deliever the rest of her letters. This could account for the 30 day delay.

[vasu619]

The one thing I have not understood since KoD is why exactly Egwene and the other AS are so pissed about the Asha'man bonding sisters. Those AS came to gentle and kill every male channeler in there and hang them on sight if possible (in complete violation of Tower law and custom, never mind that it would have been a massive failure), and they're lucky they weren't killed in self-defence. Instead they were left alive and were restrained in the easiest possible way. Let's face it, simply saying "Do not channel unless instructed" is a lot easier than guarding and shielding 50+ sisters at all times. Exactly what would Egwene want done differently? The way I see it it seems to be Elaida's fault, not in the least bit Rand's.

[Aquarius]

The one thing I have not understood since KoD is why exactly Egwene and the other AS are so pissed about the Asha'man bonding sisters. Those AS came to gentle and kill every male channeler in there and hang them on sight if possible (in complete violation of Tower law and custom, never mind that it would have been a massive failure), and they're lucky they weren't killed in self-defence. Instead they were left alive and were restrained in the easiest possible way. Let's face it, simply saying "Do not channel unless instructed" is a lot easier than guarding and shielding 50+ sisters at all times. Exactly what would Egwene want done differently? The way I see it it seems to be Elaida's fault, not in the least bit Rand's.

Since when do truth and reason have anything to do with what AS beleive? The fact that is was the best possible outcome for this situation will certainly not prevent an outcry.

[Crael123]

ok im sorry if this has been mentioned i havnt read the thread, but who do u think rand is going too go too, Egwene or Elayne? i assume elayne

[AparnaVengakkad]

I think Rand is going to suggest a unification of the BT and WT.

 

Since the greatest wonders were build when men and women worked together (Moiraine, Eye of The World), he probably would think so for TG too. Egwene won't like what Rand has to say probably because she doesn't know much about Ashaman and numerous other reasons.

 

The seanchan issue is unlikely since Rand already met with them and it was a mess. He would probably want to take a recon before he pursues it further.

 

As for knowing Amyrlin's wrath, i think that would be different. Probably w.r.t Pavera and team and Rand ignoring BT which was wrong (but you can't blame him for it because well he had so much on his plate. Still it was his responsibility.)

 

As to why Egwene is so angry about Ashaman bonding AS:- Because they condider the whole act unthinkable and dangeorus. Think about it. For 3000 years male channelers have been going mad. How can she be sure that the madness won't transfer if the AS are bonded by them. It is also possible when AS bond the BT men (which is why Siuan and Egwene were reluctant about that too they considered it a necessity). But there is more chance in the former since the power used to bond is saidin.

 

Yes, i know that they were told that saidin is cleansed (after the bonding and madness is not removed by cleansing, but never mind that), but how can they be sure of that. The AS have never experienced saidin before. Saidin is completely different from Saidar. It is a mad, powerful torrent. When they link and try to check it out, how can they be sure that the saidin down't hold any madness? They cannot be because 3000 years of belief and experience is difficult to overcome. They will eventually believe, Egwene having grown and it being necessary. But one cannot blame them for not believing instantly. They probably blame Elaida too but what use is thinking that? She already got her comeuppance (i am sorry for that nobody deserves that fate). Since BT is Rand's and Ashaman is his it is only natural that they attribute responsibility to Rand.

 

And you cannot deny that Rand has ignored BT abominably.

 

I don't think either Rand or Egwene will harm each other. They care for each other. Egwene says something to that effect somewhere(about how she cares about DR, but also about Rand himself and what happens to him as a person). She also defended Rand a couple of times regarding Morgase and Illian (to steppanos). Rand asked Mat to rescue Egwene from Salidar and also seem to be the only one beside NYn who knows her well. There would be arguements and even diagreements, but i don't think they will hurt each other in any way.

 

Egwene hopefully will come to realise that Rand is much wiser and is more knowledgeable than she is (he has more epxerience and all those memories). She has grown herself so this is possible. Rand himself is cool now and probably will understand all her issues (thus knowing her anger).

 

All the Egwene bashing made me post after months of lurking

[fborch]

Some sort of unification between the two towers is a wet dream of mine. And something i think is pretty inevitable. The trends have already started with the sisters having asha'man warders and vice versa, linking on a regular basis, and confirming that infact the source is clean. Im guessing that Aes Sedai/Asha'man bonding will be the norm in the next age.

[Duskfire]

Pretty sure he could simply use his Ta'vern powers to stop Egwene's heart by coincidence if she started getting uppity. Or maybe she could spontaneously faint from stress. Or maybe he could utterly withdraw the Light's protection of the Tower and let everyone in it be consumed by a giant evil bubble. Then he could use the Wise Ones and freed damane and renegade suldam to train the female auxiliary of the Black Tower and start over again. Frankly, wiping the Aes Sedai off the planet and starting again from scratch is probably doing the world a favor.

 

I very much doubt Rand could do that. He doesn't control the Pattern, which has been pointed out a few times throughout the series. He influences it, but he cant think that he wants something to happen and it does. The Pattern isnt at Rands beck and call; if anything, its the other way around.

[Cutlass]

Also, slightly off topic, I feel obligated to posit that Rand is an idiot for destroying the Choedan Kal. Even if he couldn't use it to fight the Great Lord, it still would have been very useful.

 

So is a nuclear bomb. But we wouldn't be sad if those went away.

 

But atomic bombs don't possess the potential for creating incredible wonders like the Choedan Kal does. Plus, destroying it only postpones the problem; it's logical to assume (especially given the cyclic nature of the Wheel of Time) that at some point in the future people will be able to once again create incredibly powerful Sa'angreal. Rather than figuring out a good system to deal with it, you destroy it? That's almost like someone destroying the first computer prototype because it could foreseeably be used with malevolent intent. In the face of progress it's a futile gesture, not to mention severely limiting - Rand would be kicking himself if the Great Lord were to touch the world in a way that only an incredible amount of the One Power could reverse.

 

I couldn't agree more. Once Rand had the epiphany, he was in a place where he would have been able to handle the power of the CK without going bonkers and destroying the Pattern. He could have used the CK for defense, if nothing else - especially with him walking into the snake pit that is the White Tower. The man needs to be able to channel strongly enough to take on the entire tower, since Egwene will likely have that sa'angreal on her still and will foam at the mouth at the opportunity to best Rand using the One Power to show him who's boss. Being the most important thread in the Pattern means he should act responsibly and protect himself from harm until he absolutely has to put in himself in danger at Shayol Ghul. Getting leashed by Egwene or the Seanchan won't do the Pattern any favors.

 

 

Seems to me that one man having that much power (even post epiphany Rand) would be a recipie for disaster. Throughout tGS Rand had thought that the power was becomming too tempting... now imagine if you well what would have happend if just about anyone other then Rand had picked it up - easily a second breaking

[NetSlider]

Off the topic, but i c the crowd here that might have some info.

 

what is this "Super Secret Project Mark II" on Brandon's page? Any info?

 

From Brandon's Twitter: Super secret project at 40% done. Looking good, though kind of strange. Working title has "Pizza" in it. Feel free to speculate.

 

 

FTW??? Pizza???

[Tom Sawyer]

Very cool chapter. I'm now looking forward to the book more than ever. I like the fact that Rand's calmed down and is now taking a nice, leisurely stroll to the Tower to give himself some time to get in touch with his inner messiah. I do think that what he's going to tell Egwene will have something to do with the Seanchan. That side plot needs to get resolved in this book, so the last one can focus on TG without a pointless fight against someone else wasting pages.

[DocBean]

I wonder what is up with the White Trees.

We first saw them in Galad's POV, then in chapter 1 we saw that a guy turned into one. – or something.

 

it' smelled of sulfur, which is normally connected to the darkhounds, but obviously used as a connection to the Dark One.

 

seems weird.

[TigerGamer]

Him going to the Tower is just like from his dream in tEoTW (where fade is waiting for him in the tower itself). It would be cool if he actually walks through the streets of Tar Valon and people (all of them) follow him all the way to the tower grounds.

I got the feeling that's whats going to happen, all the people he passes will follow him on his "pilgrimage" to the WT. When he get there he'll point to Egwene and say, "You're full of sh!t."

If only. it is time for AS to finally realize that he is the creator's champion, and not them. it would be cool if his meeting with Egwene was public (in front of all the people) and when she tries bulling him or something the crowd gets really upset. it's time for people to follow the man who is destined to die for them and save them and not through some proxy/middleman.

 

 

I'd defnitely think this will happen because the only food in the world that is not going to be spoiling will be the food centered around Rand. So the entire population could just start sticking to his bootheels and rulers without people to rule are stuck sittin' on their thumbs. Could be a main motive to get everyone up north for the big fight.

[78WARLOCK]

113 men, unlinked, sealed the Dark One for 3000 years.

 

Yeah, I don't think massive strength in the One Power is going to be the critical success factor of ridding the world of the Dark One.

 

The Choedan Kal is like having the big gun. It's a big strength, but also a big liability. What happens if it falls into the wrong hands? Rand himself is barely strong enough to use it: what happens if he slips while using it?

 

He was right to destroy it.

Was Rand even aware that it would be destroyed ?

[Sentinel78]

I wonder what is up with the White Trees.

We first saw them in Galad's POV, then in chapter 1 we saw that a guy turned into one. – or something.

 

it' smelled of sulfur, which is normally connected to the darkhounds, but obviously used as a connection to the Dark One.

 

seems weird.

 

Yeah I didn't understand that part. I guess it was just a bubble of evil that manifested itself as a man-eating tree or maybe he actually turned into the tree. It was unclear.

 

I reread the Galad POV - I don't think it was the same kind of tree. He was looking at skeletal type trees that were having a tough time hanging on with some kind of white moss infecting them or something. I took that just to mean that nature itself is being assaulted, and not just the areas where mankind lives. Thus, whole swaths of forest are just dying out. Everything's dying basically. In other words, I don't think those white trees was actually a village that turned into trees during a bubble of evil. That being said, Galad was told he was supposed to have been out of the forest already when they showed up, and there were other dead people around there, so maybe that's what happened...

[Morsker]

The one thing I have not understood since KoD is why exactly Egwene and the other AS are so pissed about the Asha'man bonding sisters. Those AS came to gentle and kill every male channeler in there and hang them on sight if possible (in complete violation of Tower law and custom, never mind that it would have been a massive failure), and they're lucky they weren't killed in self-defence. Instead they were left alive and were restrained in the easiest possible way. Let's face it, simply saying "Do not channel unless instructed" is a lot easier than guarding and shielding 50+ sisters at all times. Exactly what would Egwene want done differently? The way I see it it seems to be Elaida's fault, not in the least bit Rand's.

 

They're as superstitious about the Bond as we are about marriage. I don't find it unrealistic, just annoying. In particular, I have a hard time finding sympathy for AS enslaved by the Seanchen, since their own attitudes about the Bond are nearly as bad.

[rabbittmaster]

is tor gonna release chapter 2 soon

[Tom Sawyer]

is tor gonna release chapter 2 soon

 

Ya, it's coming out on November 2nd.

[wipe]

Rand's effect on the apples and people's mood made me wonder. This effect strongly mimics the Nym's abilities. I have always assumed the Nym were just contructs out of the era of Peace - leftovers if you will. But what if they were made to try and counter the DO's touch in the War of Power? One woud assume the DO had similar effects on the land and people then so the Aes Sedai could have created the Nym to battle those effects.

 

 

 

 

 

As far as taveren linked to the breaks in the clouds, I think taveren has nothing to do with it. It's all about Rand (he has to be more than just some guy who can channel, his new ability finally puts him really above simple mortals ). The presence of Mat and Perrin at the LB is not simply for Mat's war knowledge and Perrin's wolf link, their presence will tilt the chance in light's favor (maybe kind of as if pattern will be represented by them for the light's side). So their presence there is important without the ability to heal the earth (which once again I think Rand-only thing)

 

But Rand clearly states that his effect is just local... How can it reach all the way down to Caemlyn?

[Arani Lepenque Aes Sedai]

 

Also, slightly off topic, I feel obligated to posit that Rand is an idiot for destroying the Choedan Kal. Even if he couldn't use it to fight the Great Lord, it still would have been very useful.

 

So is a nuclear bomb. But we wouldn't be sad if those went away.

 

But atomic bombs don't possess the potential for creating incredible wonders like the Choedan Kal does. Plus, destroying it only postpones the problem; it's logical to assume (especially given the cyclic nature of the Wheel of Time) that at some point in the future people will be able to once again create incredibly powerful Sa'angreal. Rather than figuring out a good system to deal with it, you destroy it? That's almost like someone destroying the first computer prototype because it could foreseeably be used with malevolent intent. In the face of progress it's a futile gesture, not to mention severely limiting - Rand would be kicking himself if the Great Lord were to touch the world in a way that only an incredible amount of the One Power could reverse.

 

I couldn't agree more. Once Rand had the epiphany, he was in a place where he would have been able to handle the power of the CK without going bonkers and destroying the Pattern. He could have used the CK for defense, if nothing else - especially with him walking into the snake pit that is the White Tower. The man needs to be able to channel strongly enough to take on the entire tower, since Egwene will likely have that sa'angreal on her still and will foam at the mouth at the opportunity to best Rand using the One Power to show him who's boss. Being the most important thread in the Pattern means he should act responsibly and protect himself from harm until he absolutely has to put in himself in danger at Shayol Ghul. Getting leashed by Egwene or the Seanchan won't do the Pattern any favors.

 

Pretty sure he could simply use his Ta'vern powers to stop Egwene's heart by coincidence if she started getting uppity. Or maybe she could spontaneously faint from stress. Or maybe he could utterly withdraw the Light's protection of the Tower and let everyone in it be consumed by a giant evil bubble. Then he could use the Wise Ones and freed damane and renegade suldam to train the female auxiliary of the Black Tower and start over again. Frankly, wiping the Aes Sedai off the planet and starting again from scratch is probably doing the world a favor.

 

And lets not forget that he also has the True Power up his sleeve. Who knows whether or not the One Power can even shield that.

 

I cannot believe you. Killing nearly 1000 sisters who can channel, over 100 Accepted and 1000 Novices just before the Last Battle. A very fine way to protect yourself from dreadlords and BA and dark Asha'man. Taking out over 2000 channelers who could, linked with Asha'man, wipe out entire fists of trollocs at a blow. A very fine way to ensure your victory over the Shadow's forces indeed.

[Lisa Campbell]

Going way back in this thread but why is everyone so certain that Rand will go to TV? I can't see any way that he would go there still believing that Elaida is in charge. He can't know about the Seanchan attack or any of that stuff yet.

[Aquarius]

Going way back in this thread but why is everyone so certain that Rand will go to TV? I can't see any way that he would go there still believing that Elaida is in charge. He can't know about the Seanchan attack or any of that stuff yet.

Either he goes to TV to talk to Egwene besieging the city, or he goes to TV to talk to Egwene in the WT.

Some have suggested he will go to talk to Elayne ? Since he's so close to TV, Egwene seems more likely.

[Tom Sawyer]

Going way back in this thread but why is everyone so certain that Rand will go to TV? I can't see any way that he would go there still believing that Elaida is in charge. He can't know about the Seanchan attack or any of that stuff yet.

 

Well, if he thinks Elaida's still in charge, then he thinks that Egwene's outside the walls with the rebel army since he doesn't know that she got captured or anything either. It can be written off in one sentence like "Oh, the war's over and Egwene's in charge of all the Aes Sedai now - that's randomly useful to my purpose in coming here". Either that or he can be given some random Super Dragon ability to read the Pattern or something and know what's going on. Either way, the story can move forward and not be bogged down by lack of communication.