Egwene's Reign (speculation & possible spoilers)

[cgilbertmc]

1) she is going to get the hall to declare war on the seanchan

2) she is going to start repairing the tower

3) she is going to try and control rand and use his against the seanchan

4) she is going to try and reform the red ajah into something useful (since male channellers are now acceptable)

5) she is going to send envoys to all known sisters outside of the tower, demanding they return to the tower or be proclaimed of the BA and that the tower is now whole and the civil strife is over

6) send a envoy to the BT and open a dialogue

7) after that she is going to send an envoy to the borderlanders and create an open dialogue between them and rand

8) she is going to send an AS advisor to each and every kingdom to advise

 

1) As much as she may want to, she cannot afford to have a formal declaration of war against the Seanchan. They control too much of the lands to the west and south.

2) Absolutely

3) Possible, but very very dangerous I don't know how sane he is and to say he is volatile is an understatement. He is close to being the rabid dog you put in your enemy's back yard.

4) Well on the way. The current leader of the Red is already taking them to task.

5) This one is the most delicate of operations. Ultimatums were what Elaida used to get her way. She needs to start conciliatory talks, especially with those who were expelled, but also those who stayed out of the fray. She has already declared all AS must retake the 3 oaths so she can be sure of anyone in the tower not being BA.

6) Yes, but maybe via the Reds who went at the end of KoD

7) Bring Elayne in as QoA. The Borderlanders are a very formidable army, not where they belong. This will get very very sticky, but I think Rand will eventually handle this himself

8) Including Tarabon, Amadicia, Gheledan, Illian and Arad Domon?

[TheAngryDruid]

Just saying good feedback on the whole Oath's discussion.

 

I think part of the confusion is that the Oath changes somewhat in various books and the BWB, as does the actions necessary by various AS to get themselves into a position where they can use it as a weapon.

 

Kind of a Captain Obvious post, apologies.

 

[dumont76]

i was just wondering why everybody assumes that male channelers will join the WT? i for one dont think they will want to. I would prefer it that way too.the Ashaman are so much cooler 8)  than those idiots at the WT. as to Rand and Egwenes confrontation i hope Rand lets her finish talking and then laughs in her face ;D. Egwene is the biggest idiot of them all. 

Like

 

It is gonna be disastrous when they meet

 

Maybe, just maybe this could lead up to the resolution of the abundant immature behaviors in the male/female relationships exhibited throughout the entire story.  I think it could be accomplished in the last couple of books  ???

 

Or not... ;D

[ranjitb]

As I stated elsewhere, I much preferred Sanderson's handling of Egwene to Jordans' - however, is it too little too late ? We'll have to wait and see...

 

Of course, the pessimistic part of me is sure that the "know the Anger" but WILL be her yelling (or cuttingly dressing down) Rand, and since this is the Wheel of Time, and more importantly, since she is Mary Sue Egwene, Rand will thus be forced to see the error of his ways and accept her guidance.

 

As to everything else -

 

1) she is going to get the hall to declare war on the seanchan

 

Egwene will want to, but eventually succeed in forming a peaceful alliance with Fortuona, thereby succeeding where Rand failed.

 

2) she is going to start repairing the tower

 

I certainly hope we don't see any of this onscreen, we have already had books and books of interAS bickering snorting, and Egwene has already managed to shame them all into cooperation by conveniently displaying each and every ideal that each Ajah holds dear.

 

3) she is going to try and control rand and use his against the seanchan

 

At first, but eventually she, Tuon, Cadsuane, and Rands three "wives" will present a united cold faced front to bring him back into line. All the female characters will then snort and say "Pmf, men !" and all the men will whine to each other about how they don't understand women.

 

4) she is going to try and reform the red ajah into something useful (since male channellers are now acceptable)

 

The Red Ajah is already undergoing a transformation into a find, bond, and thereby control all male channelers Ajah. Which I suppose could be construed as progress.

 

5) she is going to send envoys to all known sisters outside of the tower, demanding they return to the tower or be proclaimed of the BA and that the tower is now whole and the civil strife is over

 

Probably. And the various factions will reunite seamlessly under her leadership once they are impressed by her unparalleled ability to survive a spanking. Cadsuane will have a tea party in which she shall tell her followers "Pmf. If THAT BOY had even a fraction of the strength that Egwene Sue displays, we would not be in such dire straits."

 

6) send a envoy to the BT and open a dialogue

 

Only in order to set up a time table for those men to submit themselves to the honor of being bonded. While Egwene is organizing this, Mazrim Taim will capture and beat her, whereupon he will be impressed by her strength and confess that he was turned black against his will, it's too late for him, but he will hand over a complete list of all his cronies. Egwene will have them all executed, thereby succeeding where Rand failed.

 

7) after that she is going to send an envoy to the borderlanders and create an open dialogue between them and rand

 

She and Garyth Bryne will go in person. The borderlanders, given their deference to AS will immediately swear fealty to the Amrylin Mother Sue. Rodel Itulrade's rag tag band will be captured and brought before her. Gawyn will singlehandedly defeat RI, GB, and DB in hand to hand combat. Seeing this, Egwene will promptly bond him and create him Grand General over a unified Randland army, thus succeeding where Rand failed.

 

8.she is going to send an AS advisor to each and every kingdom to advise

 

Given that the rediscovery of Travelling has made "sending" envoys somewhat obsolete, Egwene will implement a system whereby all the reigning monarchs must come to her for a weekly consultation. Elayne will accept this without any footstamping about how she is the rightful queen of all and sundry. She will be crowned in Cairhien, and Illian as well since Rand will be told that Wooolheaded Shepherds must not aspire above their stations. Once the queen of Andor, Cairhien, and Illian is on board; the rest of the non-Seanchan kingdoms will soon follow suit. Harine and Amys will bargain to bring the Sea Folk and Aiel into the new federation for the privelege of sitting at Egwene's right and left feet. She will thus recreate a psuedo-federalist government uniting all of non-Seanchan Randland with herself as President for life, thereby succeeding where BOTH Rand and King Arthur failed.

[Crossroad]

Rand has all the guidance he wants and if all the woman in this series had let him use it I probably think the books would have been over 7 books ago.  The only person Rand will listen to is Moiraine I think that goes for all the boys.

 

Egwene hasn't grown as a character, she's just got more power now but she still has that attitude problem toward Rand, Mat, Perrin and all males.  Collar them make them do what she says especially Rand, look at how she treats Gawyn(he's love sick can't help it).  Now all she has to do now is collar the alpha dog and she can be happy with herself.

 

When Rand sorts everything out at TG he would have left the world with Male channellers who don't have the taint.

 

If Eqwene doesn't fix the attitude problem she has toward men channellers and men in general her Reign won't be long and she would never attain the position of Tarmyln.

 

 

[DemandredFO]

I think you're wrong, he'll trust Moraine but he also trusts Nyneave.  He cleansed the source with her, he didn't even bother with and she wasn't very happy that Nyneave left.  So he trusts Moiraine and Nyneave.

[thewalrus777]

Rand has all the guidance he wants and if all the woman in this series had let him use it I probably think the books would have been over 7 books ago.  The only person Rand will listen to is Moiraine I think that goes for all the boys.

 

Egwene hasn't grown as a character, she's just got more power now but she still has that attitude problem toward Rand, Mat, Perrin and all males.  Collar them make them do what she says especially Rand, look at how she treats Gawyn(he's love sick can't help it).  Now all she has to do now is collar the alpha dog and she can be happy with herself.

 

When Rand sorts everything out at TG he would have left the world with Male channellers who don't have the taint.

 

If Eqwene doesn't fix the attitude problem she has toward men channellers and men in general her Reign won't be long and she would never attain the position of Tarmyln.

 

 

 

Egwene knows how she has to 'really' handle the situation with the DR. However, it is definitely not the way the Hall wants her to handle it. She has grown as an individual, and it shows when she addresses Gawyn about his 'rescue' attempt. She's learned to distinguish business from pleasure, which in her line of work is needed. Because she isn't thinking about herself anymore, but for the overall good of man. Rand will trust her, because he knows that he needs to be more trusting of those trying to legitimately help him. Sure he'll have Moiraine, Nynaeve, and Cadsuane, but he will need the backing of the WT as well. Egwene has to present herself a certain way to please the Hall.

[DemandredFO]

The Gawyn situation shows that she's not thinking clearly.  They were just invaded by the Seanchan, even though they didn't know of the bloodknives, the amarlyn should have guards.

[azrael.1289]

Egwene knows how she has to 'really' handle the situation with the DR. However, it is definitely not the way the Hall wants her to handle it. She has grown as an individual, and it shows when she addresses Gawyn about his 'rescue' attempt. She's learned to distinguish business from pleasure, which in her line of work is needed. Because she isn't thinking about herself anymore, but for the overall good of man. Rand will trust her, because he knows that he needs to be more trusting of those trying to legitimately help him. Sure he'll have Moiraine, Nynaeve, and Cadsuane, but he will need the backing of the WT as well. Egwene has to present herself a certain way to please the Hall.

But she still wants to "guide" Rand. I know it's a step up from wanting to "control" him. But, my question is, what knowledge does she think she has about winning TG that would make her want to "guide" him?

[Crossroad]

he doesn't need the womans guidance he has the pattern for that all he needs is for Egwene and the WT to be at TG. nothing else.  He has been guided by the Pattern all the boys have.

 

Like I said if she doesn't improve her attitude toward men she might as well be Red Ajah.

[Aquarius]

I think you're wrong, he'll trust Moraine but he also trusts Nyneave.  He cleansed the source with her, he didn't even bother with and she wasn't very happy that Nyneave left.  So he trusts Moiraine and Nyneave.

He trusts Nyneave to link with him and cleanse Saidin, that's HIS idea. He doesn't trust the advice of Nyneave, Aes Sedai of the yellow Ajah.

 

... that means he believes that she's not a DF,but that's about it. She does what she does for her own reasons, as far as he's concerned.

[mikael]

This is a fun thread :) However, the AS must really live up to their legendary status and be nothing like theyve been throughout the series to be of any use at TG.

 

Besides their constant failures and the fact that theyve been pretty much controlled by the BA all along, just look at what a mockery they made of themselves when the Seanchan attacked. Of course they would be shocked initially, but was really all AS traing for naught, and all that arrogance unjustified? One person, and a teenager (?) at that managed to fight back.

 

Seems to me that the only reason they will be at TG is because they have to be there, not because they are particulary useful. Unless you consider sub par power fighters that believe they know it all ^10 that cant and wont be trusted a useful ally ;)

[yoniy0]

he doesn't need the womans guidance he has the pattern for that all he needs is for Egwene and the WT to be at TG. nothing else.  He has been guided by the Pattern all the boys have.

 

Like I said if she doesn't improve her attitude toward men she might as well be Red Ajah.

Your point of view seems skewed to me. How would the Pattern guide Rand if not via the people around him? If Nynaeve wasn't there to guide him, the Borderlanders would be dead now.

Egwene would probably want the same thing. Not leash him, just being there to discuss his plans and weight in. And, probably, she would expect to have a right to veto any action that she considers too risky. That's probably where they will disagree.

[Durinax]

he doesn't need the womans guidance he has the pattern for that all he needs is for Egwene and the WT to be at TG. nothing else.  He has been guided by the Pattern all the boys have.

 

Like I said if she doesn't improve her attitude toward men she might as well be Red Ajah.

Your point of view seems skewed to me. How would the Pattern guide Rand if not via the people around him? If Nynaeve wasn't there to guide him, the Borderlanders would be dead now.

Egwene would probably want the same thing. Not leash him, just being there to discuss his plans and weight in. And, probably, she would expect to have a right to veto any action that she considers too risky. That's probably where they will disagree.

the reason why rand does not discus his plans with them in the first place is because they are not willing to discus things with him, they would just say he's a woolhead or a fool and then try to tell him what to do

[shadowkiller_001]

This is a fun thread :) However, the AS must really live up to their legendary status and be nothing like theyve been throughout the series to be of any use at TG.

 

Besides their constant failures and the fact that theyve been pretty much controlled by the BA all along, just look at what a mockery they made of themselves when the Seanchan attacked. Of course they would be shocked initially, but was really all AS traing for naught, and all that arrogance unjustified? One person, and a teenager (?) at that managed to fight back.

 

Seems to me that the only reason they will be at TG is because they have to be there, not because they are particulary useful. Unless you consider sub par power fighters that believe they know it all ^10 that cant and wont be trusted a useful ally ;)

 

I agree with this post... the AS have a long way to go to redeem their tarnished reputation as weak, arrogant and childish manipulators.  Egwene bulldozing her way to Rand and then trying to influence him is not the way to go.  There needs to be cooperation and understanding between the male/female sides. Not more arguing and trying to dominate and control everything and everyone.

[Calderis]

he doesn't need the womans guidance he has the pattern for that all he needs is for Egwene and the WT to be at TG. nothing else.  He has been guided by the Pattern all the boys have.

 

Like I said if she doesn't improve her attitude toward men she might as well be Red Ajah.

Your point of view seems skewed to me. How would the Pattern guide Rand if not via the people around him? If Nynaeve wasn't there to guide him, the Borderlanders would be dead now.

Egwene would probably want the same thing. Not leash him, just being there to discuss his plans and weight in. And, probably, she would expect to have a right to veto any action that she considers too risky. That's probably where they will disagree.

 

His being Ta'veren does a lot in the "guiding." Remember that Ta'veren are held more tightly by the pattern, and with how strongly Ta'veren Rand is, most of what he does is pretty much forced on him. Almost everything he's done so far in the series has worked out, his only real mistake was the attempt to become increasingly harder, and even that served the fulfillment of prophecy. Rand is, at least IMO, on a pretty narrow track as for as what he's doing. any attempt to "guide" him is only gonna work if it's what the pattern already wants, and most people in this series would try to guide him against almost everything he's done... which has, for the greater % succeded. Hell, even his only real "defeats" were his own doing, with Callandor east of Ebou Dar, and then the whole Arad Domon fiasco, because of his mindset.

[Crossroad]

Desertion is a Executable Offense, the Bordlanders should have been taught a leason.  But what he said to Harin was probably a better way.

[garion]

I wonder if the Amyrlin shows the DR her anger because the DR got in a fight/duel with her warder over a parental issue?

[Crossroad]

I wonder if the Amyrlin shows the DR her anger because the DR got in a fight/duel with her warder over a parental issue?

 

Don't think Gawyn will get close enough to kill Rand, and even if he was to call him out Rand would clean his dial. The only way Egwene would be able to stop him would be to present his mother infront of him.  He's an Idoit.  I like to see Mat clean his dial actually.

[Agitel]

The Gawyn situation shows that she's not thinking clearly.  They were just invaded by the Seanchan, even though they didn't know of the bloodknives, the amarlyn should have guards.

 

She's eighteen years old and the Amyrilin Seat. If she allows anybody to usurp her power she'll have difficulty getting it back. She's thinking as a political figure, not just as a person.

[Aquarius]

She's eighteen years old and the Amyrilin Seat. If she allows anybody to usurp her power she'll have difficulty getting it back. She's thinking as a political figure, not just as a person.

Indeed. And it would hurt the WT far more if the political figure was killed, than if only Egwene Al Vere was killed. This is why leaders have bodyguards. Some put a little too much show in it, but they all do the same thing.

[SuperFade]

Exactly. Egwene snapping at Siuan, Gareth Bryne and Gawyn for their 'lack of trust' in her just shows that she still hasn't gotten rid of her immaturity. Siuan and co. knew that the Tower was under attack; for all they knew, Egwene could be dead or worse. One would expect Egwene, with her newfound 'maturity' would be able to understand their predicament.

[yoniy0]

It wasn't lack of trust. It was insubordination, plain and clear. I can definitely understand why they did it, as I'm sure Egwene can (well, actually, she could, if she was real, you know...), and I can appreciate the sentiment, but that doesn't excuse it.

You know what they do to people refusing orders in a time of war, right? I say they got off easy.

[SuperFade]

I seem to recall Egwene saying that she'd only accept a rescue if it seemed that her life was in real danger. I'd say that a Seanchan attack on the Tower, coupled with the fact that Egwene had just been yanked out of the World of Dreams would definitely seem life threatening to Siuan and co. No matter what Egwene's wishes are, she is the Amyrlin. She is a political leader of extreme importance as has already been mentioned. Even though she succeeded in the end, it didn't look like it at the time to Siuan. Rescuing her was the best course of action given the information they had available.

[Durinax]

It wasn't lack of trust. It was insubordination, plain and clear. I can definitely understand why they did it, as I'm sure Egwene can (well, actually, she could, if she was real, you know...), and I can appreciate the sentiment, but that doesn't excuse it.

You know what they do to people refusing orders in a time of war, right? I say they got off easy.

egwene should be able to appreciate the insubordination, she enjoyed insubordinating the WO's quite frequently before she was Amyrlin