Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[nolirion]

A thing in on my head for quite some time now (since I read the original book and not some filthy translation)

And I am myself not quite sure about it I find it to complaisant , it is about the main prophecies of the dragon reborn

:"His blood on the rocks of Shayol Ghul, washing away the Shadow, sacrifice for man's salvation"

and one of the aiel prophecies about He Who Comes With The Dawn

:"He shall spill out the blood of those who call themselves Aiel as water on sand,"

The Shadow Rising, He Who Comes With The Dawn

 

 

so my question : Could is "blood" nor refer to is health but to the Aiel in the last battle ?

[Tsunami]

A thing in on my head for quite some time now (since I read the original book and not some filthy translation)

And I am myself not quite sure about it I find it to complaisant , it is about the main prophecies of the dragon reborn

:"His blood on the rocks of Shayol Ghul, washing away the Shadow, sacrifice for man's salvation"

and one of the aiel prophecies about He Who Comes With The Dawn

:"He shall spill out the blood of those who call themselves Aiel as water on sand,"

The Shadow Rising, He Who Comes With The Dawn

 

 

so my question : Could is "blood" nor refer to is health but to the Aiel in the last battle ?

Seems plausible to me.

 

The Aiel are his relations.... i.e. his blood-kin.

 

 

[The Desert Pea]

In past lives has the Dragon ever gone over to the Shadow? We have a few quotes supporting this but in a recent thread it was mentioned RJ went back on the earlier interviews and the Dragon never went over. If true would love to see that quote and some clarification. Thanks.

 

The way I interpret RJ's quotes is that in the past, non "Dragon soul" Champions of the Light have gone over, but the "Dragon soul" itself has never been turned to the Shadow. For example, an incarnation of the Hawkwing soul could have turned to the Shadow in the past while it was the Champion of the Light, but the LTT/Rand soul has never ever been turned.

[farthammer]

Have any of the prophecies been fulfilled in multiple ways?  It seems it usually gets argued that one specific event(s) was the correct event being prophesied, but I'm wondering about the ones that have multiple explanations.

[Suttree]

In past lives has the Dragon ever gone over to the Shadow? We have a few quotes supporting this but in a recent thread it was mentioned RJ went back on the earlier interviews and the Dragon never went over. If true would love to see that quote and some clarification. Thanks.

 

The way I interpret RJ's quotes is that in the past, non "Dragon soul" Champions of the Light have gone over, but the "Dragon soul" itself has never been turned to the Shadow. For example, an incarnation of the Hawkwing soul could have turned to the Shadow in the past while it was the Champion of the Light, but the LTT/Rand soul has never ever been turned.

 

Is there any indication that the CoL has been one of the other Heroes of the Horn like Hawkwing? Or has it  always been the LTT/Rand soul?

[The Desert Pea]

In past lives has the Dragon ever gone over to the Shadow? We have a few quotes supporting this but in a recent thread it was mentioned RJ went back on the earlier interviews and the Dragon never went over. If true would love to see that quote and some clarification. Thanks.

 

The way I interpret RJ's quotes is that in the past, non "Dragon soul" Champions of the Light have gone over, but the "Dragon soul" itself has never been turned to the Shadow. For example, an incarnation of the Hawkwing soul could have turned to the Shadow in the past while it was the Champion of the Light, but the LTT/Rand soul has never ever been turned.

 

Is there any indication that the CoL has been one of the other Heroes of the Horn like Hawkwing? Or has it  always been the LTT/Rand soul?

 

Crossroads of Twilight book tour 16 January 2003, Dayton, OH - Tim Kington reporting

RJ: Yes, the Champion of the Light has gone over in the past. This is a game you have to win every time. Or rather, that you can only lose once--you can stay in if you get a draw. Think of a tournament with single elimination. If you lose once, that's it. In the past, when the Champion of the Light has gone over to the Shadow, the result has been a draw.

 

If Champions of the Light have gone over in the past, but the LTT/Rand soul has never gone over, then there have been other Champions of the Light who aren't the LTT/Rand soul.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Hold up, where do you get teh notion that teh CoL is multiple souls.

 

i am lead to believe that Rand's soul is the CoL soul.

 

The "Dragon" was just a political title for LTT (remember Graendal says Demandred could have been the Dragon if LTT wasnt so good)

 

REmember also the "never ending battle" and "I win again LT".

 

Also, just because the CoL (Rand's soul) has gone over in the past, it doesnt mean that the DO would win.

 

If there is a quote specifying that the Dragon never went over but the CoL did, could it be provided.

 

If  not, then I stick to this post, if there is such a quote, then disregard this.

[Damos]

I have a few questions that have been nagging me.

 

1. Has Rand met Birgitte yet? I thought it obvious, as she is always by Elayne, yet I can not remember. Plus, wouldn't he remember her since the horn scene?

 

2. According to the theory on Rand's Madness being resolved from VoG, didn't the heroes know him and he them? Still not quite sure about this. Hopefully someone can enlighten me. I have read Luckers thread on it, which was a godsend.

 

3. Are Egwene, Elayne and Aviendha(?) pretty much equal in strength when it comes to the OP? They are much weaker than Nynaeve, but other than that, I assume they pretty much cancel each other out save for their talents?

 

The last question is that I recall Mordin on the other side of the gateway as Aviendha unravels it. Could they have linked and taken him? Purely speculative I know, just wonder if the TP would give him an edge when Rand did not have one when he was taken....

 

Anyways, If anyone could help me out here, I would much appreciate it. :)

 

Thanks.

[darko]

I assumed all three are the same strength, but when Aviendha confronts the Wise Ones after Min riles her up she says something like "I can channel better than any Aiel woman alive", but does that include Someryn? I thought she was close or equal to Nynaeve.

 

And how did Tam know of the truth about Maighdin (sp?)...He tells Rand that Morgase is alive  so Perrins & co. must know too but it wasn't mentioned anywhere, was it? Maybe I missed it, but I would think a big revelation like Morgase being alive would be a worthy addition.

[nolirion]

About the queen of Andor , this specific event as happens but in the book it is not part of the narration

. It is a given fact From Tam and may be a result of the confrontation of Perrin and the withecloak ,  it might be talk about in the prelude of ToM.

The "Dragon" was just a political title for LTT (remember Graendal says Demandred could have been the Dragon if LTT wasnt so good)

It is not a political title it is like the wheel of time itself and the idea of the dark one a concept in the culture of the world of Wot .

I I remind correctly it is simply the nature of the "chosen" of the creator in the battle against the dark one and is force ; it was given to LTT by is pair but he himself did not like it ( Morridin told something like that).

I likely am mistaken but is is not a tittle some can give much like the very fact of been Ta'veren the pattern chose you.

The case of LTT or Rand himself are particular

[Barid Bel Medar]

About the queen of Andor , this specific event as happens but in the book it is not part of the narration

. It is a given fact From Tam and may be a result of the confrontation of Perrin and the withecloak ,  it might be talk about in the prelude of ToM.

The "Dragon" was just a political title for LTT (remember Graendal says Demandred could have been the Dragon if LTT wasnt so good)

It is not a political title it is like the wheel of time itself and the idea of the dark one a concept in the culture of the world of Wot .

I I remind correctly it is simply the nature of the "chosen" of the creator in the battle against the dark one and is force ; it was given to LTT by is pair but he himself did not like it ( Morridin told something like that).

I likely am mistaken but is is not a tittle some can give much like the very fact of been Ta'veren the pattern chose you.

The case of LTT or Rand himself are particular

 

I think you dont understand what i am saying.

 

the CoL is LTT and Rand's soul.

 

The title "the Dragon" is something the AoL gave LTT. Just like Richard I was called "Lionheart"

 

 

Edit: Here is Luckers' reasoning for this

 

No, but I did. The Champion of the Light was a phrased coined by the fandom to reference the Rand/Lews Therin Soul. I'm not even sure RJ ever knew of it. We did so originally because the title, the Dragon, was a political title Lews Therin wore, much like 'the King of Illian' is one Rand bears. It was not a title for the soul in its role as Champion of the Light.

 

We know this because;-

 

Logic 1

 

1. The Age of Legenders are cited to have given Lews Therin the title.

2. The Age of Legenders had no knowledge that Lews Therin was a soul reborn to be the Light's champion.

3. Ergo they gave it to him purely for his political role in that age, not his rebirth destinty.

 

Logic 2

 

1. Rand is the Dragon 'Reborn', not the Dragon. Similarily Lews Therin was the Dragon, not the Dragon Reborn--therefore the Dragon is Lews Therin, and Rand is named the Dragon Reborn specifically for his link to Lews Therin

 

Logic 3

 

1. Graendal directly states Demandred could have been the Dragon--Demandred could never have been Rand's soul, ergo she meant Demandred could have held the political role that Lews Therin did.

 

As for the Champion of the Light ever being anyone other than Rand--no, RJ never even suggested that, and every time he spoke of the role of championing the Light it was always in reference to the Rand/LTT soul.

[Majsju]

 

 

And how did Tam know of the truth about Maighdin (sp?)...He tells Rand that Morgase is alive  so Perrins & co. must know too but it wasn't mentioned anywhere, was it? Maybe I missed it, but I would think a big revelation like Morgase being alive would be a worthy addition.

 

The timelines are a bit off. In TGS, we see Rand and Egwene advance a lot. Perrin on the other hand will spend a fair deal of TOfM catching up with them, so the actual revelation of Morgase will take place there. Just as Perrin meeting with Galad, which Rand sees in one of his flashes.

[farthammer]

Damn I thought the lack of perrin in TGS was a mercy but it turns out hes just going to clothesline my head off with emo meathead shit in the next one.

[yoniy0]

1. Has Rand met Birgitte yet? I thought it obvious, as she is always by Elayne, yet I can not remember. Plus, wouldn't he remember her since the horn scene?

Not yet. He hasn't seen Elayne since the Stone of Tear, except for a short visit to the Royal Palace. At the time, Birgitte was working in her study (Elayne deduces that she's reading reports), and only got out when Elayne forgot to mask the link.

 

2. According to the theory on Rand's Madness being resolved from VoG, didn't the heroes know him and he them? Still not quite sure about this. Hopefully someone can enlighten me. I have read Luckers thread on it, which was a godsend.

I'm not sure what you mean. The Heroes did know him, as he too is bound to the Horn apparently, but he only knows them when he's in between lives. LTT didn't know them as well (as a man, that is).

 

3. Are Egwene, Elayne and Aviendha(?) pretty much equal in strength when it comes to the OP? They are much weaker than Nynaeve, but other than that, I assume they pretty much cancel each other out save for their talents?

They are equal in their potential. However, Egwene has been forced, so I'm not sure if they're actually equal in strength right now. darko has a good point regarding Someryn, but I guess that's just a mistake, or else Aviendha might not consider the Shaido part of the Aiel nation anymore.

 

The last question is that I recall Mordin on the other side of the gateway as Aviendha unravels it. Could they have linked and taken him? Purely speculative I know, just wonder if the TP would give him an edge when Rand did not have one when he was taken....

No chance of that, I think. They were only three, unless of course you mean that they could link with the Windfinders and Kin present at the time. In any case, I'd imagine that the TP could give one an edge in the right circumstance.

[DocBean]

Is there anyway to find a list of characters in each book?

I'm trying to find a list of new characters in The Gathering Storm, characters we didn't see in earlier books.

 

is there an easy way to do that?

 

 

[Ashaman Kovan]

Is there anyway to find a list of characters in each book?

I'm trying to find a list of new characters in The Gathering Storm, characters we didn't see in earlier books.

 

is there an easy way to do that?

 

 

 

The glossary maybe?

 

Or this>>        http://www.dragonmount.com/character.php

[farthammer]

Character data is everywhere like those two places you listed for example.  What's really lacking are good ways to sift through it all as far as I can tell, but I haven't checked every WoT related site so I could be wrong.  It'd be pretty kick ass if there was just a straight SQL database you could query directly.  I think there would be enough technically inclined people around that could work short requests with it, in this case a list of characters that didn't exist in name until TGS.

 

Then again probably like 500 people had already thought of that, did it, and I just don't know it because I am an idiot.

[farthammer]

“The lion sword, the dedicated spear, she who sees beyond. Three on the boat, and he who is dead yet lives. The great battle done, but the world not done with battle. The land divided by the return, and the guardians balance the servants. The future teeters on the edge of a blade.”

 

Foretelling made by Nicola in LoC.  I can't remember but is there any reason to consider this a credible foretelling?  I don't remember what anyone did to separate this from total fabrication.

[Luckers]

Character data is everywhere like those two places you listed for example.  What's really lacking are good ways to sift through it all as far as I can tell, but I haven't checked every WoT related site so I could be wrong.  It'd be pretty kick ass if there was just a straight SQL database you could query directly.  I think there would be enough technically inclined people around that could work short requests with it, in this case a list of characters that didn't exist in name until TGS.

 

Then again probably like 500 people had already thought of that, did it, and I just don't know it because I am an idiot.

 

There is ideal seek (linked in the online resources thread at the top of this board), which allows you to scan for lines of text within the books--up to KoD, I think.

 

Foretelling made by Nicola in LoC.  I can't remember but is there any reason to consider this a credible foretelling?  I don't remember what anyone did to separate this from total fabrication.

 

The knowledge in it proves its veracity--how would Nicola know to link a lion sword, a dedicated spear and a woman who sees the future? How would she know to claim the Asha'man would equal the Aes Sedai?

 

 

[farthammer]

Heh well I guess the same way Rand started spitting out names of false Dragons back in the EotW, or how predictions attributed to Nostradmus can begin to sound pretty convincing to a lot of people.  But not to take a shit on your answer that is basically what I wanted to know, what the AS reasoning was, and their level of skepticism in regards to foretellings.

[Luckers]

Nicola's predictions are a little more specific. Besides the Aes Sedai didn't have the information we do. Whilst we can verify them, Anaiya certainly couldn't have. The reason the Aes Sedai don't question it is, whereas they do her later ones, were the circumstance surrounding the first foretelling--exhausted following a link fighting a bubble of evil is not really a time people choose to fabricate foretellings.

[Val Mickey]

Nicola's Foretelling can be confirmed by the Dreamwalkers' Dream - the three women in a boat dream.

 

The Zomara(ns?) read minds, right? So the Forsaken meeting with the 2 extra chairs mean 2 new/recycled Chosen, right?

Or that Moridin is messing with the Chosen. I kinda lean to the first option.

[Tsunami]

Nicola's Foretelling can be confirmed by the Dreamwalkers' Dream - the three women in a boat dream.

 

The Zomara(ns?) read minds, right? So the Forsaken meeting with the 2 extra chairs mean 2 new/recycled Chosen, right?

Or that Moridin is messing with the Chosen. I kinda lean to the first option.

I think those were empty chairs... for forsaken that had been BF'd

[Durinax]

could have been a reminder of the price of failure too

[Ashaman Kovan]

What is the point of the TofM "Non-Spoiler" board? How can there be spoilers for a book that isn't even out?