Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[Whizbang]

Rand has been trained by Lan, Mat has been trained by his dad. Wht about Perrin? Aside ffrom Ta'veren-ness, what makes him so unstoppable in a fight? I don't remember him getting any special training in using that axe and although he's strong I doubt he's the strongest soldier in the world.

 

I know he's a superb bowman, but I mean in melee combat

 

This always bugged me too. Lan did train him some, and he probably practiced more while traveling with the Shienarans in tGH and tDR, but it doesn't seem like nearly enough time. I guess, like Rand and Mat, he is just very talented. Also, his wolf side gives him an edge. He is always complaining about losing himself in battle, and he fears he might become like Noal, all wolf and no man. So, when he fights, he fights in a combination of wolf and man. That is all I can come up with, extreme talent plus wolf abilities to enhance.

[EmperorAllspice]

Speaking of "just very talented". Does the Pattern choose talented people to be Ta'veren? Or does being Ta'veren contrive to make you very skilled? Does the man make the Ta'veren or does the Ta'veren make the man?

[Whizbang]

I imagine the Pattern plays a lot in the genetics of the individual, as well as surrounding the chosen ta'veren with people who can teach the needed skills/morals/whatever.  If the Pattern can influence events during the breaking to set up things to happen 3,000 years later for the last battle, then I assume it can also do some selective breeding.  Important people seem to fall in love pretty easy with their destined mates, so why not do the same for 3,000 years to ensure your heroes have the right mix of talents and personality?

 

I dunno, maybe that imparts too much omniscience to the Pattern, which has clearly been described by RJ as not a self-aware thinking entity. It is a machine-like mechanism that works within pre-programmed bounds. But, I would think genetics would be within those bounds.

Edited February 3, 2013 by Whizbang

[Agitel]

Speaking of "just very talented". Does the Pattern choose talented people to be Ta'veren? Or does being Ta'veren contrive to make you very skilled? Does the man make the Ta'veren or does the Ta'veren make the man?

 

It's hard to draw the line. I think the ta'veren chooses people who it can work with, so people who already have some type of talent-base, tapped or untapped, and then works from there.

 

If, for example, it was the other way around, I'd imagine we'd have some quite comical reading, where the unskilled ta'veren is always bumbling about in the most clumsy fashion, even while fighting, but luck just saves him or her every time. Our ta'veren are lucky, but they seem to be naturally skilled as well.

[Hagazussa]

The Pattern chooses those who can do the task, and which are likely to do the task. If the Pattern need someone to land an army and defeat an evil empire it is not likely to choose a 97 year old grandmother who can barely walk and is starting to get a bit demented, it will choose a young man or a woman who have the necessary talents and the necessary charisma to get the job done and then it will put other people in their way that can teach them what they need to know. Yes the Pattern can force someone to follow their destiny, but it is much more easy to just nudge them along so that their lives naturally flow in that direction. Now I think that the Pattern have planned it all out from beginning to end, through all the ages so that when a person is born their destiny is already in place, the Wheel do not sit and double click on random individuals like a kid playing the Sims and say...okey you will be doing this, and you will be doing that. Instead when a person is born they already have all the talents needed to complete their task and the personality to do so and they are born into an environment that strengthen these traits, it is all laid out for them from long before they where born. Or at least that is how I think it works.

[Jagen Sedai]

My question is a possible "fault" of the a'dam:   How is it that Egwene is able to use her fist as a weapon against Renna when she is first captured? I thought that any item thought of as a weapon cannot be used. Or is it that Egwene just reacted so quickly that the a'dam properties didn't have "time" to register to stop it? Or.... perhaps your own body doesn't count as an item the a'dam can stop? And if that is the case, what stops a damane from strangling any sul'dam that walks into her room before they become complete?

[Hagazussa]

I think it have to do with how you think about it, or in this case not think about it. Egwene did not really think she just acted. Another possibility is that it is a safety mechanism of the a'dam that parts of your own body do not count, obviously the damane can use their channeling as a weapon just fine, perhaps they can also hit someone with a first if they want or use their hair as a garrote.

[BFG]

Damane cannot move unless complete without feeling really sick - cramps to the extent they can't move.  We see with Eg in tGH that when left alone, they are generally sitting at the table in the middle of the room (or presumably at night, lying in bed), the bracelet is out of reach on a peg, Eg hasn't been able to get close enough to the bracelet to study it in all the weeks she was held captive.  This would prevent them from being able to move enough to strangle anyone. 

 

Additionally until they came to Randland, Damane genuinely thought they should be collared and were grateful to the sul'dam for collaring them, so none of them would have tried.

[Hagazussa]

 

Additionally until they came to Randland, Damane genuinely thought

they should be collared and were grateful to the sul'dam for collaring

them, so none of them would have tried.

 

I don't know one of the Sul'Dam in the books comment that many of the damane is upset when they are captured, that they are reeling that they failed their test and that while it is harder to find acceptance from mainlander women I do get the sense that not all the Seanchan damane is happy about their lot from the start either.

[Jagen Sedai]

Actually damane can move--they just can't move the bracelet. Some damane are put in double kennels and can move around on their own, as long as the bracelet itself stays in the exact same spot. For example, they get up and bow perfectly fine.

[Hagazussa]

The problem is that what good would it do a damane to strangle their sul'dam? I mean even if they manage to kill the woman they would just be left where they are, unable to leave the room and all they would have won themselves would be one hefty punishment.

Edited February 4, 2013 by Hagazussa

[BFG]

 

 

Additionally until they came to Randland, Damane genuinely thought

they should be collared and were grateful to the sul'dam for collaring

them, so none of them would have tried.

 

I don't know one of the Sul'Dam in the books comment that many of the damane is upset when they are captured, that they are reeling that they failed their test and that while it is harder to find acceptance from mainlander women I do get the sense that not all the Seanchan damane is happy about their lot from the start either.

 

 

This is a fair point, we only see damane that have been collared a while (or Mainlanders recently collared) and we don't get any damane POVs to actually know their inner thoughts.

 

Actually damane can move--they just can't move the bracelet. Some damane are put in double kennels and can move around on their own, as long as the bracelet itself stays in the exact same spot. For example, they get up and bow perfectly fine.

 

I should have said unable to move more than a few feet, I'll also have to reread, I'm pretty sure that their are instances of Moggy when collared and 'unlinked' struggling and feeling sick having to move around, so although saying they can't move may be an exaggeration it's certainly unpleasent(!) and difficult for them to do so. 

[Hagazussa]

I do not think that it is any problem for a damane to move around as much as she want as long as they do not move the bracelet. I mean in Book 10 where you have that sul'dam I have forgotten the name of who is doing the rounds she comments on that damane is expected to clean their own rooms for example, they could not do that if they could not move, and besides it would not be healthy is they where to sit like statues all day. The only thing that is mentioned is that a damane can only take a few steps holding her own bracelet before being overcome by pain and cramps. Egwene walks around in her room, bow and so on without having any signs of discomfort.

[BFG]

I always assumed that their 'rooms' in the kennel were small, maybe 6/7 feet squared (big enough for a small bed and desk and not a lot else).  We see them getting exercised, to prevent them from getting fat, and I'm pretty sure that withholding exercise is a punnishment (isn't Teslyn(? AS Mat rescues) prevented from exercise as the sul'dam think something's up, next time Mat sees her she's looking 'ragged'?).  But unless their's something different about Elaynes a'dam (other than the lack of a leash) damane don't have unlimited movement without consequences, although I'll go as high as a few feet of movement :).

 

The other thing I'm trying to remember is what happens with the sul'dam that Nyn et al leave collared after Falme.  As they leave they're unable to move towards the bracelet, although this could be their intent to move the bracelet and not the fact that they're moving at all (so Jagen Sedai and you are probably right that they can't move the bracelet). I can't remember what happens from the POV of the sul'dam that finds them. 

 

One last (half-remembered) example, is Egeanin and Bethamin(?) when Bethamin is collared in the basement, doesn't Egeanin say she can go if she can walk across the room?

 

I'll try to dig out the quotes tonight.

[mb]

Speaking of "just very talented". Does the Pattern choose talented people to be Ta'veren? Or does being Ta'veren contrive to make you very skilled? Does the man make the Ta'veren or does the Ta'veren make the man?

All of the Pattern's decisions seem to be based on need of someone and/or of some group.  A person becomes taveren because there is 1 need (or more needs) for that person to become taveren; the need/needs occurring around the time he/she becomes taveren.

Not all people become taveren; thus not all talented people become taveren.  Not sure if all taveren are talented in anything before they become taveren; though a taveren seems to gain skills after becoming taveren.

the man make the taveren or the taveren make the man; maybe a little bit of both.

[Kathleen]

You can attack your suldam but any pain the suldam feels the damane feels twice over. So they would learn quickly not to strike their suldam and not to let any harm come to them.

[Hagazussa]

I always assumed that their 'rooms' in the kennel were small, maybe 6/7

feet squared (big enough for a small bed and desk and not a lot else). 

We see them getting exercised, to prevent them from getting fat, and I'm

pretty sure that withholding exercise is a punnishment (isn't Teslyn(?

AS Mat rescues) prevented from exercise as the sul'dam think something's

up, next time Mat sees her she's looking 'ragged'?).  But unless

their's something different about Elaynes a'dam (other than the lack of a

leash) damane don't have unlimited movement without consequences,

although I'll go as high as a few feet of movement :).

 

The sul'dam that I again can not remember the name of comments that the kennels the damane get on the mainland is to small indicating that normally a damane would have allot more room to move. I think there is something special with Elayne's a'dam there for everything that is indicated in the books is that damane can move as much as they want as long as they do not move the bracelet. Also Egwene's kennel is big enough that she, Min and Renna can be inside at the same time even if it is then a bit crowded, cleaning such a room would entail moving more than a few feet. I think that it is made rather clear that they can move as long as the leash reaches, but off course there is a limit to that.

 

Now as for lack of exercise being a punishment, it might but I think that have more to do with the boredom of sitting in a small room all day with nothing to do but stare at the walls. The reason why Teslyn is looking worse for wear the next time Mat see her is that the sul'dam think she is up to something and recommend that she be broken which she comments creates the most obedient damane but which is a uncomfortable process which requires stern punishments for even the smallest slight and even a damane's best effort earning he hardly a pat on the head as reward, that will wear most people down and make them look a bit ragged over time.

 

All the damane move around in their kennels, they clean, they kneel, they walk to the windows, and also when Renna want to teach Egwene a lesson she orders her to lift her own bracelet which causes pain and cramps, not moving around while the bracelet is on a peg. Also the reason why Egwene have not been able to study the bracelet is that is is seamless, she can not see how it opens and closes without lifting it up and studying it more in detail which would be rather painful to do, and also she do figure out how the collar is opened and closed but trying to touch it with the intention of opening it causes pain. It never however say that she can not move as long as the the bracelet stay in place.

 

Also it makes sense for Elayne's a'dam to have a feature to prevent how far Moggy can go or she could just run for the hills when no one is looking, a normal a'dam however do not need it as the leash provides a limit for how far the damane can go without moving the bracelet.

 

 

You can attack your suldam but any pain the suldam feels the damane

feels twice over. So they would learn quickly not to strike their suldam

and not to let any harm come to them.

 

Yes but that is only when the sul'dam is wearing the bracelet, not when it is on a peg. This do lead me to another question though, is this true for normal Circles as well? I mean if two Aes Sedai is linking and you poke one with a needle, will the other one feel it?

[MrPaul]

Quick Random Question. Moiraine describes the One Power as follows:

 

"The One Power comes from the True Source, the driving force of creation, the force the Creator made to turn the Wheel of Time. Saidin, the male half of the True Source, and saidar, the female half, work against each other, and at the same time together to provide that force."

 

My question is this. How can two forces work agaist each other to turn a wheel. If they work together that makes sense. If they are working against each other surely that would only serve to either stop the wheel, or if one was more powerful, it would overpower the other to turn the wheel of its own accord.

 

I am new to the series. Currently on book five and really enjoying it. This is one of the only theories I cannot get my head around and would appreciate any clarification.

Please appreciate the fact that I'm only on book 5 in any replies to my question. No spoilers for me please!

 

Thanks!

[Whizbang]

Imagine this:

Saidin ---->___ 
           /   \
          |Wheel|
           \___/ <------Saidar

The two forces are going opposite directions, and so oppose each other, but together spin the wheel. Also, think of how a hurricane is formed, or a tornado.

Or, better yet, imagine this:
 

The two chase each other, pushing against each other, in a whirlwind.

Edited February 5, 2013 by Whizbang

[MrPaul]

Thanks Whizbang. I understood it to mean that they fought each other, and cooperated at the same time. Now it explained in your fashion, Moiraines explanation makes perfect sense!

Thannks again!

[mb]

About linking & pain, each person in the circle can sense the feelings of the others.  Lord of Chaos.

I imagine each person would be able to sense if any of the others became physically hurt; but without the physical pain being transferred or magnified.

[EmperorAllspice]

What's the colour scheme of the Seanchan exactly?

[Rhienne]

What's the colour scheme of the Seanchan exactly?

Their banner is a white flag with a blue border and a golden hawk in the center.  Da'covale wear white.  Damane wear grey.  Sul'dam wear red and blue with silver lightning bolts.  The Deathwatch Guard wear armour that is red and very dark green.  The Ever Victorious Army members wear standard leather army with red, green and gold lacquered steel plates.

[Rhienne]

These questions may have very obvious answers, but prior to reading AMoL in January its probably been about 5+ years since I read most of the series.  I've started a re-read now but am only as far as tGH.  Just a few things I have been wondering about.

 

1.  Do Warders live a normal lifespan or is it enhanced at all by the bond?  (as a side note, how long is a normal life expectancy in the WoT?)

 

2.  Why does Nynaeve not have any problem with being bound with the oath rod when she knows it will drastically reduce her lifespan?  Especially as her immediate peers, Elayne and Egwene, are not bound by it.

 

3.  Why do men want to become Warders?  Where do they get their Warder trainees from?  I can see that some might come from the Borderlands, but they seem to be from all nations, and most nations aren't that keen on Aes Sedai, and certainly the majority of people don't like or trust them enough to bind themselves to them for life.  And what is the appeal?  On my first read through the books I thought being a Warder would be awesome with the enhanced senses and endurance, but perhaps because I'm older now, it seems like a pretty awful job to me.  You must obey your Aes Sedai, go where she goes, do what she commands and have pretty much zero control of your own life.  No chance to fall in love, or marry, or have a family, to go where you want, and permenantly being ''on guard''.  (Not true for some of the warders bonded to Green Sisters who are also their lovers/husbands, which makes more sense to me), but the majority of Aes Sedai don't have that kind of relationship with their Warders.  I am struggling to understand why men would give up their freedom, and their whole lives in servitude to women that most of the world don't have much faith in.

[Suttree]

1. Do Warders live a normal lifespan or is it enhanced at all by the bond? (as a side note, how long is a normal life expectancy in the WoT?).

They live a normal life span but keep vitality longer.

 

Interview: Apr 7th, 2001

Elf Fantasy Fair - Aan'allein (Verbatim)

Question

Do Warders have a regular lifespan?

Robert Jordan

Yes they do. They hang on to what you would call 'vitality' longer than the average man, but they live a normal lifespan. They do get things out of the bond, but not a longer life.

 

2. Why does Nynaeve not have any problem with being bound with the oath rod when she knows it will drastically reduce her lifespan? Especially as her immediate peers, Elayne and Egwene, are not bound by it.

She knows the oaths can be removed, much like Egwene does(who also has sworn them). Elayne didn't over concerns for the babies.

 

 

3. Why do men want to become Warders?  Where do they get their Warder trainees from? I can see that some might come from the Borderlands, but they seem to be from all nations, and most nations aren't that keen on Aes Sedai, and certainly the majority of people don't like or trust them enough to bind themselves to them for life. And what is the appeal? On my first read through the books I thought being a Warder would be awesome with the enhanced senses and endurance, but perhaps because I'm older now, it seems like a pretty awful job to me.  You must obey your Aes Sedai, go where she goes, do what she commands and have pretty much zero control of your own life. No chance to fall in love, or marry, or have a family, to go where you want, and permenantly being ''on guard''. (Not true for some of the warders bonded to Green Sisters who are also their lovers/husbands, which makes more sense to me), but the majority of Aes Sedai don't have that kind of relationship with their Warders. I am struggling to understand why men would give up their freedom, and their whole lives in servitude to women that most of the world don't have much faith in.

The WT has been the main force against the shadow for 3,000 years. If you are an elite warrior type individual that is a very worthy cause to dedicate yourself to. There really are only two countries that have a serious dislike of AS. Over a 1/3 of the WT is out doing good work at any given time so while there may be some backwaters like the 2Rs that don't really understand what AS do most cosmopolitan areas have a more tempered view. Again AS are out healing people, guarding the blight, averting wars, settling disuputes, taking down bands of darkfriends etc. Warders are men who find a life of honor by helping the AS do these good works. Edited February 7, 2013 by Suttree