Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[mb]

I take Moiraine meant that Sammael could not do a non-Gateway weave from Illian to Tear.  That would be true.

 

The Forsaken I guess remembered the gateway weaves and that they did not need to re-discover.

[The Fisher King]

mb...yonster...wow: all the times I have read this series (especially TSR) and I never understood the *context* of Rand and Moiraine's conversation there until you two just clarified for me. Unreal.

 

I SHOULD have trusted more. Bad Fish! LOL.

 

It does make much more sense reading that part in the context you guys suggest.

 

 

Fish

[Guest Timboy14]

Hi, this question might have been asked before,

When Egwene, Nynaeve and Elayne Trakand are held prisioner in the stone of Tear, how is it that only Amico Nagoyin, is able to sheild all 3 of them, they are ment to be much stronger than most Sister, yet all three of them trying to escape did not break the sheild.

i know a weeker person in the power can hold a shield on a person who can weild more of the one power is posible, i just thought it would take more than one person to hold all three of them.

even leane sharif, had three sister keeping the shield on here, I know that was custom, but it implies that they need number to keep a person shielded.

[yoniy0]

Hey there. Welcome.

 

They were inexperienced. Nynaeve is probably the biggest problem here, because she had reason enough to be mad, and Amico shouldn't be able to hold her on her own. Perhaps fear got the better of her, I can't recall. Egwene's and Elayne's abilities were undeveloped, so they're less of an issue (their potentials notwithstanding).

[Durinax]

Hey there. Welcome. They were inexperienced. Nynaeve is probably the biggest problem here, because she had reason enough to be mad, and Amico shouldn't be able to hold her on her own. Perhaps fear got the better of her, I can't recall. Egwene's and Elayne's abilities were undeveloped, so they're less of an issue (their potentials notwithstanding).

to add on this, during the timeframe they don't know they can push against shields, so they seem to just hit it and give up

[Tyler Glembo]

Has anybody ever posted theories on "the day that dawns twice" and balefire being used to such a massive scale that it basically pushes the sun back in time, thus making the day dawn twice?

[The Fisher King]

Hey there. Welcome. They were inexperienced. Nynaeve is probably the biggest problem here, because she had reason enough to be mad, and Amico shouldn't be able to hold her on her own. Perhaps fear got the better of her, I can't recall. Egwene's and Elayne's abilities were undeveloped, so they're less of an issue (their potentials notwithstanding).

 

You don't feel like you might be reachin' just a wee bit there, my man??  ;-)

 

 

Fish

[mb]

Has anybody ever posted theories on "the day that dawns twice" and balefire being used to such a massive scale that it basically pushes the sun back in time, thus making the day dawn twice?

For balefire to make the sun go back in time, the balefire would need to hit the person/thing that controls the sun.

I guess the sun is controlled by either the Creator or by the Wheel/Pattern.  Doing balefire to either of those may be as dangerous as doing balefire to the Dark One.

Edited January 2, 2013 by mb

[yoniy0]

 

Hey there. Welcome. They were inexperienced. Nynaeve is probably the biggest problem here, because she had reason enough to be mad, and Amico shouldn't be able to hold her on her own. Perhaps fear got the better of her, I can't recall. Egwene's and Elayne's abilities were undeveloped, so they're less of an issue (their potentials notwithstanding).

You don't feel like you might be reachin' just a wee bit there, my man??  ;-)

Not particularly, because I didn't overextend myself. I stated, clearly, that with Nynaeve Timboy had a real concern. Less so with Egwene and Elayne, even if Egwene was able to Shield an already-channeling Joiya (Amico might've been a different deal). Still, I can think of no other reason, save Nynaeve's block (although Nynaeve "tried and tired and tired", so that doesn't sound right).

Edited January 3, 2013 by yoniy0

[The Fisher King]

I like your logic. In fact, it is way better than mine - though I have to admit: I still feel that this may well have been an ''Early-Bookism.''

 

 

Fish

[The Fisher King]

A new discovery has me worried that I may have been a mite too quick in conceding my stance on the ''Moiraine/Forsaken - when did they know about Travelling'' issue...

 

FOH: Ch 6: Gateways

 

He made a hole in the air taller than he was, opening into the blackness that made the moonlight seem day. A gateway, Asmodean called it.

 

''What is that?'' Moiraine gasped.

 

 

Fish

[shortkut]

Just because she knew what traveling was, does not mean she knew what skimming was or what it looked like

[Hagazussa]

I agree Moiraine could have read about both traveling and skimming when studying at the Tower but she would most likely never have seen such a portal and know how it would look like so she would be just as surprised when she first encountered one.

[yoniy0]

More likely than not, only whispers of the ability to go wherever you please in the world in just a few moments was all that's left of both abilities. If Moiraine would've seen his bedroom through the Gateway, she might've put one and one together (I wouldn't blame her if she were still shocked to actually see it, though). Since what Rand gave her was Skimming, how was she to connect it to the legends of Travelling?

 

(Unless, of course, she grilled someone about what Rand did at Alcair Dal--which is soo out of character for her)

[Whizbang]

When the wonder girls introduce Traveling, they ask Mogi for a way to travel without memorizing the origin point.  She provided Skimming.  It was commented at the time that none of the AS had ever heard of Skimming, or anything like it.  I don't have the book handy to quote.  If no one else provides it by end of day, I'll come back with the quote.

Edited January 3, 2013 by Whizbang

[yoniy0]

Good catch.

In a way, that anybody could still hear from any of their eyes-and-ears at all was one of Moghedien's "gifts." The sisters with the strength to make gateways had all been in Salidar long enough to know it well. Those who could weave a gateway of useful size were able to Travel almost anywhere from there, and land right on the spot. Trying to Travel to Salidar, however, would have meant spending half of each night learning the new roped-off patch of ground, more for some, every time they made camp. What Egwene had pried from Moghedien was a way to journey from a place you did not know well to one you did. Slower than Traveling, Skimming was not one of the lost Talents—no one had ever heard of it—so even the name was credited to Egwene. Anyone who could Travel could Skim, so every night sisters Skimmed to Salidar, checking the dovecotes for birds that had returned to where they had been hatched, then Traveled back.

[jedman67]

Question: How did the forsaken manage to move large amounts of shadowspawn to where they shouldnt be? (I.e. the Waste, or the Stone of Tear in the early books)

I'm leaning towards Portal Stones, but if there was a discussion on it, i'd appreciate a link to the thread.

[Whizbang]

Waygates, mostly.

 

It is not possible to send them through a Gateway. Constructs (except Gholam), die when they pass through a Gateway.

[yoniy0]

There aren't any Waygates in the Waste. No, it's more likely they really did use Portal Stones, at least to cover some of the distance and get them past most of the Aiel. In Tear, I think some arrived by boat, and they could've gone onto it in the Borderlands for all we know.

[Whizbang]

Rand had to use an Angreal to move a couple hundred people via the Portal Stone. Granted, he hadn't reached his full potential, but the Angreal should have put him over any Forsaken unaided, and none of the Forsaken have an Angreal yet. Lanfear was the first to get one, as far as I know, and she got it from the wagons brought from Rhuidean.

 

How many Trollocs and Fades were there in the attack in the waste? I suppose between Lanfear and Amsodean, they could have gone back and forth to bring a lot, but that doesn't account for the fact that Kadere's wagons were also somehow brought over. None of the DFs in the wagon knew Asmo and Lanfear were with them, and they'd have figured that out pretty quick if they travelled to the waste via Portal Stone.

 

So, something else occurred, at least for Kadere and Co. Maybe DF Aiel guided them.

Edited January 3, 2013 by Whizbang

[jedman67]

Rand had to use an Angreal to move a couple hundred people via the Portal Stone. Granted, he hadn't reached his full potential, but the Angreal should have put him over any Forsaken unaided, and none of the Forsaken have an Angreal yet. Lanfear was the first to get one, as far as I know, and she got it from the wagons brought from Rhuidean.

 

How many Trollocs and Fades were there in the attack in the waste? I suppose between Lanfear and Amsodean, they could have gone back and forth to bring a lot, but that doesn't account for the fact that Kadere's wagons were also somehow brought over. None of the DFs in the wagon knew Asmo and Lanfear were with them, and they'd have figured that out pretty quick if they travelled to the waste via Portal Stone.

 

So, something else occurred, at least for Kadere and Co. Maybe DF Aiel guided them.

Most likely Asmo and Lanfear linked to bring the trollocs over via Portal Stones. Alternatively, . and for Kadere, all it would take is a little compulsion for him and his men to forget traveling wagons via gateway. Or again, a little Compulsion and the Aiel would forget ever having guided them into the waste.

[mb]

The attempted ambush on Perrin in Towers of Midnight; that is likely one time of Shadowspawn being transported by Portal Stone.

Not so sure about other times in the series.

The attacks in the Waste, there is some chance that the passes were used.  Possibly in combination with Waygates on the other side of (or with Waygates within) the mountain chain.

[DSgamer64]

The only known Portal Stone in the Waste is the one that Rand used to bring him and his companions to Rhuidean.

[yoniy0]

Yes, but unlike stedding, we don't know that there aren't any others.

[Jason Williams]

Do we know anything about how people become recognised as blademasters?