Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[Luckers]

Pevara was shown travelling off screen (even if it was just as the gateway was woven to the Black Tower). By the time we see her she's already focussed on the earth shattering concept of a Red working out an alliance with a man who can channel. It's bound to sweep aside anything else.

[Smittyphi]

My search-fu must be off because I can't find it and I can't believe it hasn't been discussed but how exactly did Mesaana get around the oath rod? I just re-read ToM and don't understand how she did it.

[David Selig]

One of the theories about how Mesaana did that the Aes Sedai research team suggested to Egwene in Chapter 15 was the correct one, according to Brandon.

[FarShainMael]

One of the theories about how Mesaana did that the Aes Sedai research team suggested to Egwene in Chapter 15 was the correct one, according to Brandon.

 

These three theories are:

 

1. Linking herself to a second 'oath rod' while taking the oaths, so they don't hold;

 

2. Send a 'look-alike' wearing the MoM to take the oaths in her stead;

 

3. Use a weave to alter her voice, so that what people hear is not what she said.

 

Later on, in ToM 37/38, Mesaana places a weave on Katerine to disguise her and sends her to face Egwene in her stead.

 

So it looks as though most likely Mes used method 2 to defeat the Oath Rod.

[Mats Spare Hat]

Alright so I'm on a re-read, and just finished through Crown of Swords...

 

Did anyone else find it just kind of weird that Moridin just happened to be at SL, so shortly after Sammael & Rand had arrived?

 

As to say, Sammael goes all bru-hah-hah challenge challenge in response to Rand et al's Illian surprise, and gates away. Rand follows him.

 

Assuming SL wasn't planned out as a trap beforehand, and since Rand's plan came off like a complete surprise, is the thinking that Sammael 'paged' for lack of better words, for help in an off camera moment in the meantime, when we're just seeing things from Rand's PoV...Or, Mori just happened to be out for a stroll?

 

Probably just reading too far into it, but it is kind of weird to think about. *shrug

Edited October 19, 2011 by Mat's Spare Hat

[Finnssss22]

Alright so I'm on a re-read, and just finished through Crown of Swords...

 

Did anyone else find it just kind of weird that Moridin just happened to be at SL, so shortly after Sammael & Rand had arrived?

 

As to say, Sammael goes all bru-hah-hah challenge challenge in response to Rand et al's Illian surprise, and gates away. Rand follows him.

 

Assuming SL wasn't planned out as a trap beforehand, and since Rand's plan came off like a complete surprise, is the thinking that Sammael 'paged' for lack of better words, for help in an off camera moment in the meantime, when we're just seeing things from Rand's PoV...Or, Mori just happened to be out for a stroll?

 

Probably just reading too far into it, but it is kind of weird to think about. *shrug

 

 

Except, SL was indeed planned out as a trap by Sammy in the first place.

Evidenced by Rand commenting on how the amount of power he used for the fire-sword shouldn't of been enough for Sammy to detect. Showing that Sammy had been there earlier and warded the place.

[Southpaw89]

who do you guys think is "Sammael?" And what I mean is, in KoD I think it's Moridin, who says that Sammael was leading trollocs through the ways. It has so far not been said who it was. Any ideas?

[Sharaman]

who do you guys think is "Sammael?" And what I mean is, in KoD I think it's Moridin, who says that Sammael was leading trollocs through the ways. It has so far not been said who it was. Any ideas?

Someone with a "Chosen mark" and definitely not halima/ Balthamiel. Beyond that, lots of guesses. Luckers thinks it's Taim (who's been raised to Chosen). There's at least one thread devoted to this.

[JKN-SW]

One of the theories about how Mesaana did that the Aes Sedai research team suggested to Egwene in Chapter 15 was the correct one, according to Brandon.

 

These three theories are:

 

1. Linking herself to a second 'oath rod' while taking the oaths, so they don't hold;

 

2. Send a 'look-alike' wearing the MoM to take the oaths in her stead;

 

3. Use a weave to alter her voice, so that what people hear is not what she said.

 

Later on, in ToM 37/38, Mesaana places a weave on Katerine to disguise her and sends her to face Egwene in her stead.

 

So it looks as though most likely Mes used method 2 to defeat the Oath Rod.

 

If she sends someone else to do it in her stead, wouldn't that have had to be a black sister? If so, how could she take the oaths? If she used compulsion for such a complex "task" wouldn't it have been noticed?

[FarShainMael]

I don't think it would have had to be a black sister, just someone under mild Compulsion. How noticeable that would be I don't know. Would such a task be more complex than those needed for theories 1 or 3? Bear in mind that Brandon apparently indicated that one of these three was correct.

[Sharaman]

I don't think it would have had to be a black sister, just someone under mild Compulsion. How noticeable that would be I don't know. Would such a task be more complex than those needed for theories 1 or 3? Bear in mind that Brandon apparently indicated that one of these three was correct.

It could also have been audio manipulation -we've seen that the AoL had various ter'angreal to do that and Saerin (?) demonstrated a weave that could do this.

So udio manipulation was a known, well-understood and relatively easy thing to do.

The Aiel sister-bonding ceremony (WH) shows another weave that works like a delayed audio record and play function. Even that could be used (Messi might speak the oaths earlier while not holding the rod and playback the recording, while actually saying nothing, when she's holding the rod.)

The advantage would be that she wouldn't need to grab another AS, black or not.

[Luckers]

who do you guys think is "Sammael?" And what I mean is, in KoD I think it's Moridin, who says that Sammael was leading trollocs through the ways. It has so far not been said who it was. Any ideas?

 

If your interested in my thoughts on this, its in my thread on the attack on algarin's manor (which is in the FAQ linked in my sig).

[FarShainMael]

I don't think it would have had to be a black sister, just someone under mild Compulsion. How noticeable that would be I don't know. Would such a task be more complex than those needed for theories 1 or 3? Bear in mind that Brandon apparently indicated that one of these three was correct.

It could also have been audio manipulation -we've seen that the AoL had various ter'angreal to do that and Saerin (?) demonstrated a weave that could do this.

So udio manipulation was a known, well-understood and relatively easy thing to do.

< snip >

The advantage would be that she wouldn't need to grab another AS, black or not.

 

With such weaves available and known, you'd have thought the AS would have been on the lookout for them. Or were they so hung up on denying the existence of the BA even among themselves that they didn't think to look?

[mandersen]

I don't think it would have had to be a black sister, just someone under mild Compulsion. How noticeable that would be I don't know. Would such a task be more complex than those needed for theories 1 or 3? Bear in mind that Brandon apparently indicated that one of these three was correct.

It could also have been audio manipulation -we've seen that the AoL had various ter'angreal to do that and Saerin (?) demonstrated a weave that could do this. So udio manipulation was a known, well-understood and relatively easy thing to do. < snip > The advantage would be that she wouldn't need to grab another AS, black or not.

With such weaves available and known, you'd have thought the AS would have been on the lookout for them. Or were they so hung up on denying the existence of the BA even among themselves that they didn't think to look?

Most AS show very little creativity in what weaves they use in various situations. I'm guessing they never thought of these loopholes just now.

[Mulk]

Most AS show very little creativity in what weaves they use in various situations. I'm guessing they never thought of these loopholes just now.

 

This. They don't encourage experimentation at all. It's not until they get an influx of new blood who aren't mentally bound by the constraints of learning the same thing over and over and over and see the outcome of all of the "new" weaves that they begin to experiment, tweak and alter. I will admit that a certain amount of this is fully understandable, given what happened to Martine Janata during her ter'angreal experimentation, and what has happened to many who undertook the testing to be Accepted or Aes Sedai. But even the Browns, whose province is knowledge, are mostly bound to the study of history. There is little to no evidence of any upward accumulation of knowledge, merely the retention of what is known. It is of vast importance to retain knowledge, but there needs to be some movement to increase it, less assumption that you already know that which is profitable for you to know. The Yellow Ajah was particularly bad about this.

[Sharaman]

We know that they didn't look at all for ways around the rod until Egwene ordered them to. Then they found several possible ways.

No, they weren't looking out for this sort of audio stuff (or for Mirror of Mists, which they definitely know).

[metalisticpain]

In the great hunt for the horn, Liandrin and Suroth have been ordered by a forsaken/ishamael to take Egewene and Nyneave across the ocean.

 

What is the basis/grounds for this do we know?

Why not simply order them killed?

[Mulk]

I don't recall that we ever see on screen what the reasoning is, but given what we know of Ishamael and his bent toward turning Rand et al to his side, I think he saw it as a great opportunity to have Egwene and Nynaeve forced into becoming damane, who would have been in the care of a nation swayed by Semirhage. Perhaps the intent was to have her take them and break them personally; that wouldn't surprise me. But either way, they would have been great weapons to use against Rand in the event he did not turn.

[msbee]

Not only a way of breaking the girls and using their strength, it raises the opportunity of a set up where Rand can be forced to fight them and ruins the chances of a peaceful 'binding of the Nine Moons'

[shaiel]

Okay, here's my question: why does everybody on the boards think that Rand is tied to the Horn? I find it in every thread about the horn of valere, and it puzzles me. I mean, if he's the Dragon, how can he be tied to the Horn? these are two different things...

[mb]

Okay, here's my question: why does everybody on the boards think that Rand is tied to the Horn? I find it in every thread about the horn of valere, and it puzzles me. I mean, if he's the Dragon, how can he be tied to the Horn? these are two different things...

tied to the Horn? Rand did not sound it; Mat did.

 

or do you mean him being a Hero? That is actually "bound to the Wheel".

The Heroes calling him Lews Therin seem to be an indicator.

Edited October 28, 2011 by mb

[metalisticpain]

tied to the Horn? Rand did not sound it; Mat did.

 

or do you mean him being a Hero? That is actually "bound to the Wheel".

The Heroes calling him Lews Therin seem to be an indicator.

 

Rand is def bound to the wheel as the Dragon.

 

The horn only calls the heroes waiting in the dream world. If 5 out of 50 are born in the world, it would only pull the 45 heroes available. (numbers just for example). Unless the horn is used somewhere other then in an time where the last battle is imminent I doubt he has even answered its call. The dragon is going to almost always be born whenever the horn is blown

Edited October 27, 2011 by metalisticpain

[Disco]

what city/province is king roderan in?

[MasterAblar]

what city/province is king roderan in?

 

City of Lugard in Murandy.

[FarShainMael]

Why is the Great Hunt for the Horn called in Illian? What is the connection (if any)?