Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[Xcorpyo001]

The Black Ajah was trying to kill (or gentle) any man who could possibly be the Dragon Reborn. This starts right after the Aiel War, and you can bet that Galina was heavily involved.

 

 

Yes, I guess any BA sister that was also Red was extra vigilant while looking for male channelers, but many of the killings involved lucky men, of various ages.

In the talk Elaida had with Alviarin, she said that they gentled 20 men in the last 20 years, although the number showed in the open records is smaller. And I don't think any sister hid the fact that she gentled a man that could channel, and loose the chance to win some Ajah points, even if she was an undercover BA.

 

On the other hand, in NS, we have a guy killed with all his kinds in a stable, a blacksmith, Lan, a prince and his son, all killed(Lan survived) in a matter of days, in a small area of Randland.

I think the number of lucky men killed in all of Randland in those years is a lot larger than the gentled men. And since Cadsuane was in the area at that time(probably hunting for the BA...in NS), she knew about the vile thing(the lucky men were killed with OP), and was referring to the strange deaths, not the gentlings.

And since Annoura is not Red, she shouldn't be asked about the secret gentlings knew mostly by the Reds or the Sitters.

Or maybe both are mentioned in that sentence, who knows?. I can't be sure either way, but I'll put my money on the strange killings+AS deaths, if I have to choose.

Edited October 2, 2011 by Aiel Blademaster

[Terez]

So you mean that the Black Ajah would have used black members among the Red Ajah to influence the other Reds to go against Tower law and gentle male channellers on the spot hoping to take out the Dragon Reborn, is that it? That's actually pretty smart. Shame they're missing the critical information that the DR is just a baby at that time.

Yes, Moiraine realized in New Spring that they didn't know how old the Dragon Reborn was...yet. And the names Logain mentioned really do suggest that the Blacks were trying to influence non-Black Reds to get involved...including Elaida (who was minimally involved) and Barasine...but the other names Logain mentioned were Katerine and Javindhra, and we know they're Black. And somehow (as a result of this?) Galina was raised to Highest of the Red Ajah. (She had only been Highest for 18 years at the time of Lord of Chaos, so she wasn't until 2-3 years after the Aiel War.)

Edited October 2, 2011 by Terez

[MasterAblar]

So you mean that the Black Ajah would have used black members among the Red Ajah to influence the other Reds to go against Tower law and gentle male channellers on the spot hoping to take out the Dragon Reborn, is that it? That's actually pretty smart. Shame they're missing the critical information that the DR is just a baby at that time.

Yes, Moiraine realized in New Spring that they didn't know how old the Dragon Reborn was...yet. And the names Logain mentioned really do suggest that the Blacks were trying to influence non-Black Reds to get involved...including Elaida (who was minimally involved) and Barasine...but the other names Logain mentioned were Katerine and Javindhra, and we know they're Black. And somehow (as a result of this?) Galina was raised to Highest of the Red Ajah. (She had only been Highest for 18 years at the time of Lord of Chaos, so she wasn't until 2-3 years after the Aiel War.)

 

I see. That's quite clever of them. And evil of course, can't forget evil.

[Terez]

Come to think of it, the illegal gentling probably didn't begin until Galina was raised Highest. Before then it was probably just Blacks trying to kill lucky men.

[Finnssss22]

So you mean that the Black Ajah would have used black members among the Red Ajah to influence the other Reds to go against Tower law and gentle male channellers on the spot hoping to take out the Dragon Reborn, is that it? That's actually pretty smart. Shame they're missing the critical information that the DR is just a baby at that time.

Yes, Moiraine realized in New Spring that they didn't know how old the Dragon Reborn was...yet. And the names Logain mentioned really do suggest that the Blacks were trying to influence non-Black Reds to get involved...including Elaida (who was minimally involved) and Barasine...but the other names Logain mentioned were Katerine and Javindhra, and we know they're Black. And somehow (as a result of this?) Galina was raised to Highest of the Red Ajah. (She had only been Highest for 18 years at the time of Lord of Chaos, so she wasn't until 2-3 years after the Aiel War.)

 

 

 

Yep and it wasn't the first time nor was it the last.

Most Blacks and Alviarin (head of the Black for about 2 years at the time) denied to Ishamael that they had anything to do with the death of Sierin Vayu. However, we later learn that Chesmal Emry did indeed manipulate the Reds into it or at least takes credit for it.

 

 

Come to think of it, the illegal gentling probably didn't begin until Galina was raised Highest. Before then it was probably just Blacks trying to kill lucky men.

 

That's what I always figured, especially with Elaidia's PoV in the aCoS prolougue.

She recalls that there have been 24 men gentled in the last 20 years, only 16 are recorded and she was involved in the other 8.

Edited October 2, 2011 by Finnssss

[yoniy0]

There's a topic around here somewhere about the Vileness. Let's continue over there, if anyone has anything to add.

[LazyMonk]

A "simple" question.

At the time of end of ToM... Where are all the Aiel?? (there ARE more than 500000 after all)

[yoniy0]

Some are in Tear, if memory serves. I know the WO met Rand post-VoG, but I'm not sure if that happened on screen. Anyone?

[Finnssss22]

A "simple" question.

At the time of end of ToM... Where are all the Aiel?? (there ARE more than 500000 after all)

 

 

Illian, Tear and Arad Doman mostly and the number is closer to 350k than 500k.

The "Bleakness" was taking close to 1000 a day for quite a while after the Shaido defeat at Cairhien.

[MasterAblar]

A "simple" question.

At the time of end of ToM... Where are all the Aiel?? (there ARE more than 500000 after all)

 

 

Illian, Tear and Arad Doman mostly and the number is closer to 350k than 500k.

The "Bleakness" was taking close to 1000 a day for quite a while after the Shaido defeat at Cairhien.

 

Aren't some still in Cairhien too?

[Finnssss22]

A "simple" question.

At the time of end of ToM... Where are all the Aiel?? (there ARE more than 500000 after all)

 

 

Illian, Tear and Arad Doman mostly and the number is closer to 350k than 500k.

The "Bleakness" was taking close to 1000 a day for quite a while after the Shaido defeat at Cairhien.

 

Aren't some still in Cairhien too?

 

 

There prolly was but I suspect Elayne has "kicked" them out like she did in Andor.

[LazyMonk]

A "simple" question.

At the time of end of ToM... Where are all the Aiel?? (there ARE more than 500000 after all)

 

 

Illian, Tear and Arad Doman mostly and the number is closer to 350k than 500k.

The "Bleakness" was taking close to 1000 a day for quite a while after the Shaido defeat at Cairhien.

 

Aren't some still in Cairhien too?

 

 

There prolly was but I suspect Elayne has "kicked" them out like she did in Andor.

So why aren't they moving north to the Last Battle?! ((It's a rant - I know))

[David Selig]

Elayne did kick the Aiel out of Andor, they left because Rand send to Arad Doman.

[Feral]

What was Min's viewing concerning Moiraine again? Was it that Rand would fail without the help of a dead woman or something similar? And has it ever been confirmed that Moiraine is definitely the subject of this viewing?

[FarShainMael]

It's in ACoS35:

 

"What good to tell him (Rand) he would almost certainly fail without a woman who was dead and gone?"

 

AFAIK it's not confirmed that she means Moiraine; in fact Moiraine isn't even in her thoughts at that point. Nor is any other woman, though.

[yoniy0]

I've seen some people interpret that as Min having had a viewing of Rand's needing a dead woman. I don't think that was the intention; I think she was remembering a viewing she had about Rand needing Moiraine, and attaching her own preconceptions on it. I guess that would work equally well for any woman whom Rand might need, anyone who Min believes dead, but Occam's Razor suggests we needn't look further than Moiraine.

[FarShainMael]

Or - possibly - Lanfear.. who knows how the Bore was made.

[Xcorpyo001]

It's in ACoS35:

 

"What good to tell him (Rand) he would almost certainly fail without a woman who was dead and gone?"

 

AFAIK it's not confirmed that she means Moiraine; in fact Moiraine isn't even in her thoughts at that point. Nor is any other woman, though.

 

 

In the next chapter she's thinking about Moiraine and the only viewing she had that failed.(when she meets Caraline Damodred)

I though that she saw that Rand needs Moiraine to win the LB, but since she's dead and gone(from her pov), the viewing was wrong.

Since the quotes are just several pages apart, I thought they were connected. I'm not sure about it though, but I think she was talking about Moiraine.

[Rose]

I always took that one to be her (supposed) viewing of Moiraine marrying Thom.

[MasterAblar]

A "simple" question.

At the time of end of ToM... Where are all the Aiel?? (there ARE more than 500000 after all)

 

 

Illian, Tear and Arad Doman mostly and the number is closer to 350k than 500k.

The "Bleakness" was taking close to 1000 a day for quite a while after the Shaido defeat at Cairhien.

 

Aren't some still in Cairhien too?

 

There prolly was but I suspect Elayne has "kicked" them out like she did in Andor.

 

Like David said, she only kicked them out of Caemlyn. Kicking them out of Andor might have been pushing it a little too far. And I don't think she had time to do anything in Cairhien apart from taking the throne. As an aside, I have to say that Elayne getting the throne of Cairhien was one of the thing that dissapointed me the most. I've got nothing against Elayne, but personally I really think Dobraine would have deserved the throne. He's actually from Cairhien, unlike Elayne, and has been the most, and perhaps the only, loyal follower of Rand's from Cairhien. And he would have made a good King.

[pamela]

Agree- Dobraine for the king!

[Terez]

No way. Moiraine and Thom.

[yoniy0]

I'd wear a 'Moiraine for Queen' badge, if it weren't for the fact that she seems to dread the possibility more than the very end of the world (well, that's not fair. She never stopped having nightmares about Rand in NStN, she just started having new ones as well).

 

Or - possibly - Lanfear.. who knows how the Bore was made.

That's actually a very neat idea. Quite the twist. You have my vote, just for the fun of it.

[Terez]

I'd wear a 'Moiraine for Queen' badge, if it weren't for the fact that she seems to dread the possibility more than the very end of the world (well, that's not fair. She never stopped having nightmares about Rand in NStN, she just started having new ones as well).

That was waaaaay back in New Spring. And the main reason she was scared is because she didn't want to be the first Aes Sedai queen in 1000 years. She feared mobs. Since they've already more or less accepted Elayne, that's not a problem.

[FarShainMael]

Or - possibly - Lanfear.. who knows how the Bore was made.

That's actually a very neat idea. Quite the twist. You have my vote, just for the fun of it.

 

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