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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Mulk

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  1. I'd say that we the readers know exactly what the Dark One's plan is - to destroy everything. I'd also say it's also fairly clear that the only Forsaken who knows that is Ishamael/Moridin. We have things from Semirhage, Demandred, Sammael, not to mention multitudinous Darkfriends, that show they believe they are promised immortality and rulership. Moridin plays a different game entirely, which is why he seems insane at times even to his "allies." And he nearly won. We need to not forget that. Rand was seconds away from ending the cycle, or so it appears to me. I posited in a different thread that if the Dark One's true plan were to become known to all of the Forsaken, then any of the Forsaken aside from Moridin might possibly be a candidate for betrayal; I don't believe more than one will turn back in any case, but they want immortality, not eternal annihilation and the prospect of such a different outcome than they expect might drive one or two back to the Light out of self-preservation. I don't know how likely it is, but it seems a possibility. So you could look at it as the Dark One has a bunch of followers who can only be "trusted" as long as they do not know that he has no intention of keeping his promises to them. So his plans and attacks and what not have to be a bit more circuitous than simple kill this and take that.
  2. Given that Moridin is the only one who seems to really know what it is that the Dark One wants to do, I think if it becomes widely known to the Forsaken that he really wants to destroy reality, almost any of the Forsaken could be a candidate to turn back to the Light. They want power and immortality, not eternal annihilation. That said, I think it likely that only one at most turns back and I won't be surprised if none do. It's hard to unlearn the desire something you've wanted for decades at the least. I go back and forth between Demandred and Moghedien personally.
  3. These two. The Two Rivers or other backcountry places aren't going to know that. All we know of Androl's past is that he's been around for a while, he's one heck of a leatherworker, he's been nearly everywhere, he was likely involved in a brief rebellion and he probably had male channelers in the family. Probably a couple of other bits I don't recall off the top of my head but you get the picture. All of the major cities have some idea what Aes Sedai are like (some more slanted and/or off base than others), and the only places we see them held in reverence are along the Blight. Ergo, urban centers taken as a whole are not blind to what Aes Sedai are like, or what the White Tower may try to do. A man as traveled as Androl is would have to be blind and deaf to not have some idea about it. He's not a farmer from the far end of forever who has never met Aes Sedai, he's a reasonably intelligent and well-traveled man who sees more than you might think. Viewed in that light, it's more believable to assume he would know or at least have some idea than to assume the opposite.
  4. probably because forkroot isn't a poison, per se. The normal populace doesn't even notice it, it's like mint tea. And it doesn't "harm" a channeler - that is, it doesn't do permanent damage to a channeler, just puts them out for a while, and after they wake up and have a few hours to recover, they are just fine. Almost like it's a kind of channeler specific alcohol or something.
  5. I think it's a bit far fetched to say he personally should have done all of it, Tglems. He's got a lot else to do. I think it's a pretty sizable plot hole that he didn't do a few important ones, though.
  6. The Dark One is Olver, and the WoT is really a gigantic Snakes and Foxes board!
  7. we don't know if she connected the dots or not because we never see her thoughts on the matter, though if pressed I probably would agree that she eventually figured it out. And I know Gitara likely would not tell an Accepted, which is why I threw in there that the Amyrlin of the time might have told them since they knew of the Dragon's rebirth and were going to be working toward finding him. I'm thinking through these things as I write, can you tell? :D In retrospect, I kinda chalk up neither Fain nor Moiraine knowing almost immediately that Rand was their guy to an early bookism. Lan and Moiraine should know Aiel on sight and know that Rand can't be from around there given his great height and general physical appearance when (for a man) he's not full grown yet; average guys don't stop developing physically until 25 or so. Fain is not likely experienced with Aiel; nonetheless the Dark One and those attached to him would likely be able to realize that just on appearance or description one of these things does not belong. They SHOULD know, even if they don't make the connection on Tigraine (and I'm not saying there's reason that they should at that point, mind), that Rand isn't like the rest of the Two Rivers and thus is the one to focus on.
  8. Point taken about Luc and Moiraine knowing or having the possibility of knowing. I hadn't given either much thought. Though, I doubt Moiraine knew Tigraine well enough to see her features in Rand as clearly as the Aiel and the Caemlyn folk who knew Tigraine better did. Part of me wants to argue that when Tigraine disappeared, Moiraine probably put her out of her mind...UNLESS and it's a big one, unless Gitara told her (or the Amyrlin at the time and that Amyrlin then told Siuan and Moiraine since they witnessed Gitara's last foretelling) what her foretelling to Tigraine was. If you know that, it's easy to piece together. I wonder if it ever is going to be common knowledge. You'd think so - I have to think Rand will eventually tell Galad and once that happens it's probably going to be out of the bag.
  9. yeah; though apparently Rand and Luc/Isam are the only ones who actually know that Rand's mom was Tigraine. The Aiel don't know who she was in the wetlands, no one in the wetlands knew where she went, and Rand didn't tell anyone as far as we know. Of course, that leaves open to question how Luc found out.
  10. As Mat said nothing about the angreal in his bargaining, as they let them leave with her without attempting to take it from them, I think they saw it as Moiraine's, confusing wording aside.
  11. yeah, I read it as a plot error and not character error, herid. For Aes Sedai like Moiraine, I always thought that she viewed the Warder bond as a partnership with unequal ownership stakes - that is, they work together but she has the deciding vote, though on occasion Lan does manage to overrule her. For those like Merise, who seems to be training personal servants, I have a harder time dealing with it. It was encouraging to me to see that she was dithering on how to handle Jahar, who has not given in to her tight control like the others. It is to be hoped that once the problems between AS and Asha'man are resolved, that those Aes Sedai under the compelled version of the bond will be released and that a new version of the bond for those who wish to be that close with another in work or anything else which isn't one-sided. Something akin to how Asha'man bond their wives - at least, as it appears, since we don't know how much it mirrors the Warder bond.
  12. best guess for me is that Egwene doesn't know. AFAIK, no one has told her; at least no one has done so on screen. The Wise Ones know but they don't spread it about; they've become somewhat reticent about sharing information with Egwene since she left the Aiel tents. Obviously Alanna isn't going to tell anyone and Verin is dead without telling Egwene about it. Cadsuane and Egwene haven't met yet and the only encounter we see of anyone currently in Cadsuane's group of flunky AS with anyone of the Tower or Salidar is when Merise shows up in the Salidar camp with Jahar and his proposal re: bonding. Those sworn to Rand do not interact with Tower or Salidar Aes Sedai right now. Nynaeve, if she knows, hasn't mentioned it to her. Elayne, Aviendha and Min seem as though they wish to deal with Alanna personally instead of going through White Tower protocols...unless of course that doesn't prove satisfactory. So, we see no reaction because she simply does not know. As far as I know, the only thing AS have done to Rand that she believes she has any need to apologize for is his captivity in LOC and that inherited from Elaida, not of her own doing.
  13. From what I can recall, I think when we see people ducking and weaving to avoid something, we are seeing them avoiding secondary effects. Things like the lightning, earthquakes, storms, are all secondary effects that seem to originate along the weave and then flow in the aimed direction - or, they are weaves that are completed and then "thrown" to use a baseball term, like Cyndane's fireball tossed at Alivia during the cleansing, or balefire, which originates at the channeler's hands and flows in the pointed direction. They are vectors then, with direction and magnitude. Anything with a vector can be dodged, and anything with a vector can hit something who wasn't the original target - anyone who wanders into the path of the force in question can be hit by it. A shield seems to me to be a bit of a different animal. The only ways we know of to defeat a shield attempt are to either be strong enough in your connection that the one or ones trying to shield you cannot successfully stem the flow, to cut the shield before it cuts you off, or to break line of sight or greatly increase your distance from the caster of the shield. In addition, your connection to the Source is not a physical place, it's more of a metaphysical reality - we know it exists, but it is not a single, physical location. So, as long as you are in sight and in range, you can be shielded as your connection to the Source does not move in the same way a physical object would. There is a bit of apparent paradox in here, but RJ used several seeming parodoxes in describing the way the Source works, where it exists and how it is touched, so I think that's only to be expected. I hope I explained that ok. It's clear in my head, but explaining invisible realities that are described with the use of paradox isn't something I'm all that practiced at.
  14. I don't have one particular plot point that got on my nerves. My complaint was more general. That moment in POD at which it became painfully and crystal clear to me that RJ had no idea how to get from where he was to where he was going. I held out hope through COS. After POD, I went on hiatus for a while, because I knew I'd be lucky if I got the end of the story within a decade. I was only short by four years and change. :P I remember thinking "I've put up with eight years of arms crossing under breasts and looking down noses and general 'the other sex is stupid and not to be trusted' for -this-?" Don't get me wrong, I still love the story, which is why I came back to it. I openly wondered whether he was being paid by the word at many points, though.
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