Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[Luckers]

Firstly, a binder is not one of the Rods of Dominion. The 9 Rods were regional governers (the rods likely being symbols of their office, like how the Amyrlin Seat is so named).

OK, that makes a lot of sense, though the Tamyrlin seems to be able to command or at least summon them.

Binders were ter'angreal used on criminal Aes Sedai, and the numbering was probably a way of catalogueing and keeping track of them (binders have a lot of room for abuse).

I never thought of that, it also makes a lot of sense.

There is no functional difference between binders, though it remains uncertain if a binder could release an oath sworn on another binder--Galina fears this, which is why she returned to the Shaido.

This, however, is where I must most respectfully disagree. The original AS Oath Rod (#3) clearly releases & reswears the BA in ToM.

 

This actually supports your claim that "There is no functional difference between binders", though it seems to disprove your claim that "it remains uncertain if a binder could release an oath sworn on another binder", since the original "3" binder serves quite well in exposing the BA.

 

I was just asking if there was any difference between the Rods & your first point seems to have answered it perfectly.

 

 

The Black Ajah swore their new Black Oaths on the Aes Sedai binder (the Oath Rod, the #3 binder). We know this from Galina's reaction to the Shaido binder (the #111 binder)--she deliberately returns to the Shaido despite having a chance for freedom, and directly states in her thoughts that it is because she is uncertain if the Oath Rod could remove and Oath sworn on the Shaido binder. She also shows clearly in several other ways that this is the second binder she has encountered, but that's the point that makes it clearest.

 

Keep in mind Sitters have free, easy and secretive access to any ter'angreal they wish. This is how Seaine and Pevara get hold of the Oath Rod. All that is needed, therefore, is for there to be at least one Sitter who is Black Ajah at all times, and the Black can swear in new sisters whenever they need. Not a difficult thing with the number of Blacks in the Tower.

 

So yes, it remains uncertain if one binder could release an Oath sworn on another binder, as to date the only Oaths we've seen released were released using the same binder on which they were sworn.

 

I can only conclude that the DO/BA has one of the other seven Rods (which I must now admit functions identically no matter what number it has on it) that it uses to swear the three Black Oaths.

 

You still seem to be confusing the Nine Rods of Dominion (Regional Governers in the Age of Legends) with binders. They are completely seperate, completely distinct things. There were likely hundreds of binders (certainly the numbering of the Shaido binder suggests as much). The Rods of Dominion had no relation to this. Here, let RJ explain...

 

Question Part 1: I have a question about the Nine Rods of Dominion. We have a couple of references to this, and Ishamael says that Lews Therin summoned the Nine Rods of Dominion, and theories have been floating around. Are the Oath Rods not the Nine Rods of Dominion?

Jordan: They were not the Oath Rods.

Question Part 2: Well are they positions of power? Were they people, or were they actual rods?

Jordan: They were actual people, and they were, but you might call them regional governors of the earth, regional governors of the planet. So if I say, summon them, then we've got a guy who has been given in effect ultimate power.

 

[contempt]

How do you know that there are only 9 oath rods/binders/whatever they call them in different ages? Given that one of them is numbered 111, I assumed there must have been at least 111 of them, probably more (like a couple hundred or something), but most of them got destroyed or lost in the Breaking so there are only 2 left that we know of.

According to the BWB, the Tamyrlin has the authority to summon the "Nine Rods of Dominion", strongly implying there are only nine Rods/Regional Governors. Luckers makes a very good point saying each Rod is etched with the number of criminals bound to each Rod at the time of the Breaking.

 

Also, the fact that the AS oath rod releases and reswears the BA doesn't prove that two different binders can be interchanged, does it? This is the oath rod they've been sworn on all along, so they're just reusing the same, not a different one.

About the interchangeable Rods, that's what I was originally asking Luckers. He made a very good point that all the binders are the same, just numbered with how many AoL AS criminals were originally sworn on them & I think that is a very good explanation.

 

Or maybe I'm understand this completely wrong, and in that case I apologize.

 

Edit: And yoniy0 already said all that.

 

I do wonder about the whole Galina thing, though. I didn't understand why she didn't unswear herself as soon as she got her hands on the binder in Malden. Why did she wait until Therava showed up to capture her?

That's simple, she couldn't channel without Therava's or Sevanna's permission.

 

EDIT- OK, I was clearly wrong about the "Nine Rods" thing, but then what did you mean about it referring to the number of people each had binded? Specifically:

Binders were ter'angreal used on criminal Aes Sedai, and the numbering was probably a way of catalogueing and keeping track of them (binders have a lot of room for abuse).

Edited September 15, 2011 by contempt

[Luckers]

I meant the catalogueing the binders not the criminal aes sedai. So it'd be like 'I'm checking out binder number three now'

[contempt]

^^Ooh OK, now it finally makes sense to me. Sorry if I gave you a headache about it. Thanks for explaining it to me.

[Rose]

That's simple, she couldn't channel without Therava's or Sevanna's permission.

Oh yes, I had forgotten about that. So what was her plan, ride back to Tar Valon and get somebody to release her there?

[Din]

When we first meet Urien (TGH28) he sees Verin, and greets her respectfully as 'Wise One'. When Verin asks hm why, he says: 'You have the look of those who have made the journey to Rhuidean and survived. The years do not touch the Wide Wise Ones in the same way as other women, or as they touch men.'

I believe this is in reference to how channelers 'slow' rather than in reference to the ageless look.

[Thorgan]

Has anyone ever voiced the theory that Elaida is really Judge Dredd? Just curious.

[yoniy0]

That's simple, she couldn't channel without Therava's or Sevanna's permission.

Oh yes, I had forgotten about that. So what was her plan, ride back to Tar Valon and get somebody to release her there?

That's my guess too. She'd have to be careful, though. If she just approached a random BA and said "these Wilders made me swear not to reach for the Source, mind helping me get free of that Oath?" she might not get a warm welcome. On the other hand, it's not general knowledge (or, it wasn't, not as far as Galina knew) that the OR can release one of Oaths taken on it, so she couldn't just approach any AS about it.

 

BTW that's my answer to the question about Moghedien a few pages back, too. The way Liandrin treated her is proof enough that it's a very bad idea to let just any BA know she can't touch the Source without help.

Edited September 15, 2011 by yoniy0

[Xcorpyo001]

Has anyone ever voiced the theory that Elaida is really Judge Dredd? Just curious.

 

 

Not since I'm around here(not too long). But no, I don't think so. How did you managed to come up with that idea?

From what I can remember from the little I know about him, Dredd should be a good guy, at least in his organisation. He even refuses the position of First Judge, and saves the day more than once. Elaida on the other hand...

 

I think it's better if you make a Children of the Light Galad = Judge Dredd.

That's the guy who'll uphold the law no matter the costs. And the Children are the Jury, Judge and Executioner sort of organisation.

Edited September 15, 2011 by Aiel Blademaster

[csarmi]

Elaida IS a 'good guy'. She's misguided and corrupted by Fain and used as a tool by the Black Ajah (Alviarin), but her thoughts imply that clearly enough. She's even capable.

[Leyrann]

Elaida IS a 'good guy'. She's misguided and corrupted by Fain and used as a tool by the Black Ajah (Alviarin), but her thoughts imply that clearly enough. She's even capable.

 

But even after Alviarin's fall, she didn't stop destroying the Tower.

[yoniy0]

This is not the right thread for that kind of talk. Please open another one if you really want to discuss the merits of her character.

[Thorgan]

Well, I wasn't really serious.

 

But Elaide said "I am tower law" which is really close to Judge Dredds punchline.

Edited September 15, 2011 by Thorgan

[Guest splateaux]

Simple question:

Is it explained anywhere how the third oath, "Never to use the One Power as a weapon except against Darkfriends or Shadowspawn, or in the last extreme defense of her life, the life of her Warder or another Aes Sedai" is seemingly broken all the time.

 

The oath isn't, "You'll not kill anyone with the power", it's that you won't use it as a weapon. Non-black ajah are constantly running around wacking each other with the power "as a weapon."

[Terez]

Simple question:

Is it explained anywhere how the third oath, "Never to use the One Power as a weapon except against Darkfriends or Shadowspawn, or in the last extreme defense of her life, the life of her Warder or another Aes Sedai" is seemingly broken all the time.

 

The oath isn't, "You'll not kill anyone with the power", it's that you won't use it as a weapon. Non-black ajah are constantly running around wacking each other with the power "as a weapon."

It's all a matter of perception, and they've convinced themselves that light chastisement doesn't count as 'weapon'.

[Turin Turambar]

I had thought that Oath was overly restrictive in the letter of the law but is then interpreted to allow transgression.

 

My question though is it explained why Mat's Ter'angral is/was able to injure the gholam? if so, How?

[mackoY-kun]

It is repeatedly "implied" that terangreal that had similar functions interfere with each other. (i.e. the Dream ring Verin gave Egwene in her accepted test). So the same principle is believed in tha gholam's case. You could say that the Gholam could be considered a terangreal?

[FarShainMael]

A wayward, and not too serious thought... Was ToM called that because it was the 13th book....?

[yoniy0]

Brandon implied that the title had many different meanings. I guess that would be a good one. Truth be told, it's my least favorite book name, or close to it. Nothing major happens in this book that refers to the Midnight Towers or the Towers of Midnight (that is, if anything major could be said to happen in it at all ), not in any interpretation, unless one considers 'finnland to be it. There are a few towers there, and one on Randland's side of the portal, but I have a hard time stomaching 'the halls of mourning' as a proper name, let alone 'the Towers of Midnight'. Pushing them both down my throat...

[pamela]

Question 1: could bonded AM also bond his AS or vice versa? Could simply 2 people bond each other so that they can both have the same benefits resulting from the bond and be equal?

 

Question 2: don't the Seanchan Ogier have a problem with longing?

[Goldstar]

Question 1: could bonded AM also bond his AS or vice versa? Could simply 2 people bond each other so that they can both have the same benefits resulting from the bond and be equal?

 

Question 2: don't the Seanchan Ogier have a problem with longing?

1. Just as long as they don't experiment with the "exponential orgasm"...

 

2. THe longing began after the breaking. The Seanchan Ogier didn't experience the breaking... so...

[Luckers]

Seanchan ogier experienced the breaking. They avoided the longing because stedding are more common in seanchan and thus the ogier never lost them.

[pamela]

Ok, thanks. I just found the threads about both issues, but you guys are so fast I didn't have a chance to cancel or edit my post

[FarShainMael]

Possibly a silly question, but can a (sufficiently strong) channeller, or circle of channellers, shield more than one person at a time?

[MasterAblar]

Possibly a silly question, but can a (sufficiently strong) channeller, or circle of channellers, shield more than one person at a time?

 

Yes. For example Rand shielded both Elayne and Egwene at the same time in tSR.