Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[FarShainMael]

It's not really a simple question, but I'll say here what I thought of mentioning there.

 

ta'veren are just as fallible as the next guy (see Rand with Taim, for example, or Mat's attempting to flee Cairhien). But their effect on the Pattern works for the general plan. In this way, their pull on people and events shouldn't be doubted the same way they should.

 

For example, if Nynaeve is helpless to oppose Rand's plan to break the Seals because of his ta'veren nature, then his plan should be heeded. On the other hand, if she supports him just because she's wool-headed, that's a horse of a different color

 

My read-through has reached TGH3, and here Loial says:

 

"For a while, the Wheel will bend the Pattern around you three, whatever you do. And whatever you do is more likely to be chosen by the Wheel than by you. Ta'veren pull history along behind them and shape the Pattern just by being, but the Wheel weaves ta'veren on a tighter line than other men. Wherever you go and whatever you do, until the Wheel chooses otherwise you will - "

 

And then Mat furiously cuts him off.

 

So yes, I'd say that Rand's pull on Nynaeve should certainly be heeded!

Edited September 8, 2011 by FarShainMael

[ShenAnCalhar]

Who needs flying and trains/cars?

I always kind of wondered about this too. Wouldn't it make more sense just to have an area in every town/city where there are a bunch of gateways to different places, all tied off? Teleporting sure beats flying...

[Luckers]

Brandon implied after TofM that gateways can't be kept tied off for long periods of time.

[Rose]

I would have thought they could create a Travelling ter'angreal of some kind (you know, like a stargate or something). But the glimpses we get from the AOL suggest that that's not possible, as people only seem to be able to Travel if an Aes Sedai takes them along. You'd think they would have created such a ter'angreal if it was possible. Too bad, really!

[Xcorpyo001]

I would have thought they could create a Travelling ter'angreal of some kind (you know, like a stargate or something). But the glimpses we get from the AOL suggest that that's not possible, as people only seem to be able to Travel if an Aes Sedai takes them along. You'd think they would have created such a ter'angreal if it was possible. Too bad, really!

 

 

I think Aviendha and Elayne can work something up if they work together.

After all, they did managed several things that weren't in the AoL.

[PsyQuestor]

In regards to quotations, i simply listed the wiki, but am aware of quotes from the books themselves. At the time I answered the query, I happened to be reading through a chapter that had pertinent information per the original question. I have not had time to go back through to find it, but I don't feel it is relevant anyway. Due to being jumped on in the fashion that I have, I've lost interest in the forum.

 

Perrin enters T'A'R = true. Perrin has had information from T'A'R he would not have otherwise had = true. He has dreamed of possible futures = true. Perrin is not a male channeler = true. He has a talent or a Talent? *yawn*

 

The point being made is that Perrin is a dreamer and he is male. There appears to be a distinction between "Talent" and "talent." *shrug* again, small distinction and one I'm not interested in debating. Enjoy.

[Luckers]

The point being made is that Perrin is a dreamer and he is male

 

I'm afraid this point is actually incorrect. Dreaming is having dreams [in the normal function] which tell the future. RJ was distinct on this--the capitalised Dream is the style of future-dreams that Egwene experiences. Perrin's "Windows of the future in the Wolf Dream" is a completely distinct ability, though of course very similar in function.

 

I do understand the misconception--the two abilities are incredibly similar, but for all that RJ was specific. Perrin is not a Dreamer, for all that he has glimpses of the future whilst asleep and dreaming. And yes, I am aware the wiki incorrectly cites Perrin as a Dreamer.

[JeffWeissberg]

I just read the scene where Loial returns with Kaldrin to Carhien and Samitsu (Cads crew) is with Sashalle (Red Healed from Stilling sworn to Rand). Does anything ever come from these healed sisters being freed from the Three Oaths?

 

AS never seem to notice that a woman Healed from Stilling is free from the Oaths...

[Luckers]

I just read the scene where Loial returns with Kaldrin to Carhien and Samitsu (Cads crew) is with Sashalle (Red Healed from Stilling sworn to Rand). Does anything ever come from these healed sisters being freed from the Three Oaths?

 

AS never seem to notice that a woman Healed from Stilling is free from the Oaths...

 

No one has realised yet, though Sashalle states her intention to 're-swear the Oaths and re-dedicate herself to her Ajah', no one notably connects the issues.

[yoniy0]

gateways can't be kept tied off for long periods of time.

Yeah, but it just occurred to me that very few people (Asmodean only knew three such, for example) can keep a Gateway from closing. It's not quite the same as tying them off, they do eventually shrink, and Rand probably has better things to do with his time, but...

[Dreggs Morlock]

In regards to quotations, i simply listed the wiki, but am aware of quotes from the books themselves. At the time I answered the query, I happened to be reading through a chapter that had pertinent information per the original question. I have not had time to go back through to find it, but I don't feel it is relevant anyway. Due to being jumped on in the fashion that I have, I've lost interest in the forum.

 

Perrin enters T'A'R = true. Perrin has had information from T'A'R he would not have otherwise had = true. He has dreamed of possible futures = true. Perrin is not a male channeler = true. He has a talent or a Talent? *yawn*

 

The point being made is that Perrin is a dreamer and he is male. There appears to be a distinction between "Talent" and "talent." *shrug* again, small distinction and one I'm not interested in debating. Enjoy.

These forums can be like that at times. People have firm beliefs, and disagreeing with their points can at times be taken the wrong way, and they get defensive. You struck upon a topic that RJ has settled by making clear statements on the issue, but the fact that it was brought to him in the past means your points were being made way back when, and he NEEDED to clarify.

 

Don't take it personally, and try again. Stand up for your points, but also be willing to accept it if there is a huge amount of proof that you are wrong. I don't think a single person who answered you meant anything about you, only your assertions. The flames here only burn once, then they become a fire that pushes you to become a better poster.

 

Trust me. =)

[Lisa Campbell]

I just read the scene where Loial returns with Kaldrin to Carhien and Samitsu (Cads crew) is with Sashalle (Red Healed from Stilling sworn to Rand). Does anything ever come from these healed sisters being freed from the Three Oaths?

 

AS never seem to notice that a woman Healed from Stilling is free from the Oaths...

 

No one has realised yet, though Sashalle states her intention to 're-swear the Oaths and re-dedicate herself to her Ajah', no one notably connects the issues.

 

Considering that Sashalle wrote to Galina even though it was Tsutsama who recieved the missive, I think Sashalle is black and was talking about re-swearing her oaths to the Dark One. Is there a thread for that?

[Terez]

If she was Black, she wouldn't be likely to bring that little detail to anyone's attention voluntarily. Even Siuan was devious enough to keep that information to herself.

[Lisa Campbell]

If she was Black, she wouldn't be likely to bring that little detail to anyone's attention voluntarily. Even Siuan was devious enough to keep that information to herself.

 

That's precisely my point. If she isn't black, she wouldn't be worried about her pre-stilling oaths being wiped out (by uncontrolled circumstances she did not seek) and would think she could serve Rand better without them and keep the secret to herself. On the other hand, if she was black she would be very worried about punishment from the Dark One or his subordinates because of supposed disloyalty to the Dark One. From what we are told of the letter, Sashalle seems scared about it.

 

There is little evidence to support this and perhaps it is only intended as a plot device so that Tsutsama can pass the news on to the rest of the Tower that stilling wipes out former oaths, but IIRC Egwene already knows about this from Siuan.

 

The main thing that makes me suspicious about it is that Sashalle seems to have gained the respect of the Wise Ones and could have some influence on the Aiel in Cairhein.

[JKN-SW]

Do we know that swearing to the DO involves the OP and thus will be affected by stilling/gentling? Non-chennelers swear to the DO as well, and it would make sence that they were just as bound to their oaths (to DO) as the channelers were.

[capuga]

Do we know that swearing to the DO involves the OP and thus will be affected by stilling/gentling? Non-chennelers swear to the DO as well, and it would make sence that they were just as bound to their oaths (to DO) as the channelers were.

 

Yes, we know they bind themselves with the Dark Oaths on the Oath Rod. That's why the Black Ajah hunters use it to remove the oaths and reswear them on their suspects and why Verin was looking for the Oath Rod before committing suicide.

[JKN-SW]

Can non-chennelers be bound by the oath rod as well? Iirc the channeling isn't made by the swearer when the AS swear their oaths. Or do I remember wrong?

[csarmi]

No they cannot. The oath rods only work on channelers. It doesn't matter who channels the spirit into the rod, but it only binds channelers.

 

According to Sammael, there is a way to control non-channelers, but harder. (It comes up with his dealing with Sevanna)

 

I believe that if you swear on one oath rod, you can remove your oaths by that one ONLY, but I don't think there is a proof either way. (The reasoning is that they used them to bind criminals in the AOL. Now that wouldn't be much help if you could get ANY rod and unbind yourself with it. Also, therods are numbered. Of course this doesn't prove anything, maybe they were more careful with their oath(s) and that's all. It only takes one oath of obedience and a few orders not to be able to use the rod again, afterall.)

Edited September 9, 2011 by csarmi

[Sharaman]

Oaths can be removed by unswearing on any oath rod, I believe. They can even be removed (or sworn) by using an oath rod dreamt up in TAR.

[JKN-SW]

Do we know that swearing to the DO involves the OP and thus will be affected by stilling/gentling? Non-chennelers swear to the DO as well, and it would make sence that they were just as bound to their oaths (to DO) as the channelers were.

 

Yes, we know they bind themselves with the Dark Oaths on the Oath Rod. That's why the Black Ajah hunters use it to remove the oaths and reswear them on their suspects and why Verin was looking for the Oath Rod before committing suicide.

 

Another thought. Wasn't Verin aware that stilling can now be healed? If so, wouldn't stilling and healing be a better way to remove her oaths to DO rather than suicide? Since she had such a good knowledge of BA, she would have been able to find sisters to trust to help her with this.

[Dewairah]

did the AoL people like LTT etc know about the light and the dark before the bore was created?

 

If there was no dark one - how would they have known about the "dark"?

 

If there was no dark - how would they have really known about or appreciated the "light" ?

 

Was the whole light/dark theology something that came about after the bore was drilled?

[csarmi]

Oaths can be removed by unswearing on any oath rod, I believe. They can even be removed (or sworn) by using an oath rod dreamt up in TAR.

 

What makes you think that?

[Sharaman]

Oaths can be removed by unswearing on any oath rod, I believe. They can even be removed (or sworn) by using an oath rod dreamt up in TAR.

 

What makes you think that?

Can't remember the exact reference or find the quote but it was clarified. I'm sure Luckers or Terez et al will dig it up.

[Dreggs Morlock]

did the AoL people like LTT etc know about the light and the dark before the bore was created?

 

If there was no dark one - how would they have known about the "dark"?

 

If there was no dark - how would they have really known about or appreciated the "light" ?

 

Was the whole light/dark theology something that came about after the bore was drilled?

Now this... THIS is a very good question.

 

The funny thing is, I seem to remember asking the SAME questions when I first read the Aiel flashback storyline that Rand saw in the rings way back, when the Aiel and co. found out the Bore was sealed by LTT. Reading this reply gave me a great flashback!!

 

BTW, I have no IDEA.

[Terez]

Oaths can be removed by unswearing on any oath rod, I believe. They can even be removed (or sworn) by using an oath rod dreamt up in TAR.

 

What makes you think that?

Can't remember the exact reference or find the quote but it was clarified. I'm sure Luckers or Terez et al will dig it up.

No, because we are lazy. It's in my sig > reference library > interview database > one power