Towers of Midnight Speculation Thread (Spoilers for tGS)

[WolfDragonFox]

But just remember that he didnt channel all of it at the same time, he sent it thru the saidar tube in bulk until it was all through....what happend to all the channeling men throughout the world that were getting there weave on...lol probably more than a few burn outs from Rand snatching their power away..hahaha...that contradicts what i said about him not using it all at once but only eventually getting it all through but I had to say that cuz i was thinkin it.

[mossman87]

Immortal has every right to his opinion, however his opinion here is based purely on logical fallacies mixed with some tears over the story not progressing the way his mind thinks it should.  I see no 'holes', only ignorance on the inner workings of WoT.

 

To be honest I think this is just a very good troll, but the lines are blurred so much nowadays you never know.

[JakeBarnes]

What about my other 2 points? (I'm not being a douche, I really want to know)

 

Does Rand know that damane can't link?  If not, your entire rant about the situation is pointless.  If so, I apologize.

 

But really, how does me questioning your opinion show how little I understand the series and the world?

[Sentinel78]

Does Rand know that damane can't link?

 

Technically, they are already linked to the sul'dam, although the sul'dam are not very useful.  Think back to Fires of Heaven when Nynaeve captured Moggy and went to help Rand fight Rahvin.  Nyn forced Moggy into a link via the a'dam and could then direct the flows like any other link where she was leader.  Nyn could have added her own strength to the circle but wasn't mad enough and couldn't break her block at the time. 

 

Egwene deduced that in a link like that you couldn't further link to other channelers because that was a restriction caused by the a'dam.  It is very unclear whether Rand could have deduced that.  He has a lot of good Power-intuition from his LTT memories, but a'dam were not around during the Age of Legends so he might not know (Moridin's POV confirmed that forced circles were a novelty of this age).

 

In any case, the extra saidin Rand drew as a precaution through the CK made sense because even assuming no damane could link, they could have angreal, or as Rand indicated, it was at least 'possible' another Forsaken could have slipped in.

[WolfDragonFox]

Yep, nicely cleaned up Sentinel

[Sharaman]

There's no explicit conversation which would lead him to know this.

Even if RaT could have deduced it, (he might, given his and LTT's knowledge of the OP) better safe than sorry.

Egwene has much stronger reasons for knowing linking is impossible - she's "experimented" with A'dam. Ditto Nyn and Elayne.

But of course, they wouldn't discuss this with RaT.

 

 

[clu7ch]

I have this feeling, that I got when I re-read Egwene's end-book stuff in TGS, that she is gonna die. Maybe not in ToM, but I just feel like shes gonna die. We haven't had any main characters kick the bucket yet....and we know some of the seanchan assassins are still lurking about. I'd hate to see it happen, but it just seems likely.

[Lilbaz]

I'd be suprised if a few of the charcters didn't die. Have a gentle hunch theat Rand may well kill Gawyn in a duel and this would be the Amrylin's rath (sorry bout the spelling but can't be arsed to check  :P)

[JakeBarnes]

This is as good a place as any to put this, I think.  It is directed mostly toward the super-readers:

 

What about Egwene's accepted test vision about Beldeine?  In her vision of the future, Beldeine was her KotC and the White Tower had the Dragon Reborn captured in chains.  Is this going to come true, or was it merely a version of the future (ie Egwene becoming Amyrlin and Rand getting put in the box).  This scene still bugs me (From TDR I think, but maybe from TGH.  Again, super-readers correct me). 

 

She remembers the BA purge in the vision as well.

[Tigraine]

This is as good a place as any to put this, I think.  It is directed mostly toward the super-readers:

 

What about Egwene's accepted test vision about Beldeine?  In her vision of the future, Beldeine was her KotC and the White Tower had the Dragon Reborn captured in chains.  Is this going to come true, or was it merely a version of the future (ie Egwene becoming Amyrlin and Rand getting put in the box).  This scene still bugs me (From TDR I think, but maybe from TGH.  Again, super-readers correct me). 

 

She remembers the BA purge in the vision as well.

 

I'm pretty sure that it was just part of the test...she had to want to be Aes Sedai more than anything...even leaving a friend to be executed. 

[JakeBarnes]

I'm having trouble dismissing Beldeine.  She has been around for far too many important moments in the series, such as Dumai's Wells, being linked with one of the Ashaman at the cleansing when he died, and also present for Semirhage's attack on Rand. 

 

 

[Sentinel78]

We don't really know how the Accepted-test ter'angreal work exactly.  They seem similar to the Rhuidean rings (not columns) the Wise Ones, and also to the Portal-stone alternate-reality trip in tGH.  I half some vague memory of RJ commenting on this, and indicating that it is an interpretation of an alternate future that is modified for the purposes of the Accepted-test.  I do not believe it's a sign of what's to come exactly, too many things are already contradicted from that test.  Beldeine is not Keeper, Egwene was not raised to the green ajah, Elaida was Black ajah, there were Fades in the White Tower just hanging out, Elaida removed Egwene as Amyrlin instead of Siuan, Rand was captured, etc...

 

So basically, I wouldn't look for answers in that ter'angreal.

[lsm]

 

Technically, they are already linked to the sul'dam, although the sul'dam are not very useful.  Think back to Fires of Heaven when Nynaeve captured Moggy and went to help Rand fight Rahvin.  Nyn forced Moggy into a link via the a'dam and could then direct the flows like any other link where she was leader.  Nyn could have added her own strength to the circle but wasn't mad enough and couldn't break her block at the time. 

so this is what moridin refers to as involuntary links when he watches the web unweave as aviendha and friends leave ebou dar?

[Sentinel78]

so this is what moridin refers to as involuntary links when he watches the web unweave as aviendha and friends leave ebou dar?

 

Yeah, that was the Moridin POV I was referring to.  Apparently a'dam and Domination bands weren't around during the War of Power.  Domination bands (male a'dam) were made during the Breaking to control insane male channelers, whereas a'dam were first made by some Seanchan-side Aes Sedai (not affiliated with the White Tower) who sold out other female channelers to Hawkwing's son Luthair sent to invade Seanchan.

[Mr Ares]

This is as good a place as any to put this, I think.  It is directed mostly toward the super-readers:

 

What about Egwene's accepted test vision about Beldeine?  In her vision of the future, Beldeine was her KotC and the White Tower had the Dragon Reborn captured in chains.  Is this going to come true, or was it merely a version of the future (ie Egwene becoming Amyrlin and Rand getting put in the box).  This scene still bugs me (From TDR I think, but maybe from TGH.  Again, super-readers correct me). 

 

She remembers the BA purge in the vision as well.

She also has Agelessness, but remembers never having held the OR. As a vision of the future, it's not perfect. It might come true, but it doesn't have to.

 

 

Technically, they are already linked to the sul'dam, although the sul'dam are not very useful.  Think back to Fires of Heaven when Nynaeve captured Moggy and went to help Rand fight Rahvin.  Nyn forced Moggy into a link via the a'dam and could then direct the flows like any other link where she was leader.  Nyn could have added her own strength to the circle but wasn't mad enough and couldn't break her block at the time.

so this is what moridin refers to as involuntary links when he watches the web unweave as aviendha and friends leave ebou dar?

The BA also know a way to force someone into a link. They use it for punishments.

[Rocky_Outcrop]

How is that performed exactly?? Pardon my memory being crap, this seems like the sort of thing I really should remember.

 

Could you link with someone against their will and use their power against them?

 

Does this BA trick rely on you being stronger than the person you link with in the same way as shielding does?

[Crael123]

so this is what moridin refers to as involuntary links when he watches the web unweave as aviendha and friends leave ebou dar?

 

Yeah, that was the Moridin POV I was referring to.  Apparently a'dam and Domination bands weren't around during the War of Power.  Domination bands (male a'dam) were made during the Breaking to control insane male channelers, whereas a'dam were first made by some Seanchan-side Aes Sedai (not affiliated with the White Tower) who sold out other female channelers to Hawkwing's son Luthair sent to invade Seanchan.

 

the adams were made by some insano seanchan channeler that thought that all channelers were the bane of the earth and she gave it too artur hawkwings son or whatever that invaded seanchan so he could control them. 

[jadelollipop]

I just hope Galad and Berelain finally meet so we can get rid of that inane triangle of Perrin,Faile,Berelain.  I get really annoyed when the women in a love relationship falsely accuse the one who loves them (esp when Perrin is ready to let the world hang for her and she berates him over someone like Berelain.)  Grrr

[RenaldFanwar]

so this is what moridin refers to as involuntary links when he watches the web unweave as aviendha and friends leave ebou dar?

 

Yeah, that was the Moridin POV I was referring to.  Apparently a'dam and Domination bands weren't around during the War of Power.  Domination bands (male a'dam) were made during the Breaking to control insane male channelers, whereas a'dam were first made by some Seanchan-side Aes Sedai (not affiliated with the White Tower) who sold out other female channelers to Hawkwing's son Luthair sent to invade Seanchan.

 

the adams were made by some insano seanchan channeler that thought that all channelers were the bane of the earth and she gave it too artur hawkwings son or whatever that invaded seanchan so he could control them. 

 

here is the exact part from Robert Jordan's 'World of Wheel of Time' which mentions the a'dam and its history

 

"The first a’dam was made by an Aes Sedai, Deain, who brought it to Luthair Paendrag in an attempt to curry favor with him. She knew he had no Aes Sedai in his armies, and for the most part the Aes Sedai hated him. Deain believed that Luthair would eventually win and felt that she would be richly rewarded for bringing him a gift that could hand him the Power of the Aes Sedai, willing or not. Several years after that, the first sul’dam were found—women who could learn to channel and had the spark, but could not actually channel without training. These women were considered ideal controllers of the damane, the Leashed Ones. For her trouble Deain was rewarded with imprisonment by her own device. She was, after all, Aes Sedai and thus not to be trusted. It is said her screams “shook the Towers of Midnight.”

 

Once the a’dam gained regular use, the title Aes Sedai disappeared completely from Seanchan, and those who could channel were renamed marath’damane, or Those Who Must Be Leashed."

 

so u see, it WAS some foolish aes sedai who made the first a'dam

[randalthorr]

Are the towers of midnight in Seanchan?

[Morsmordre]

Sorry if anyone has already mentioned it but have you all forgotten Min's viewing of Berelaine? She is going to fall in love with Galad. Min's viewing was that Berelaine is going to be... influenced (or sth like that) by a very beautiful man in white. Galad, of course.

 

I think that Matt's adventure at the Tower of Genjei is going to begin right from the beginning and end in the middle of the book.

 

I hope that Twatan will finally find their lost song. They deserve to find it - probably among the Seanchan but I think that there are a couple of other possibilities:

1. Aviendha at Rhuidean;

2. Matt at the Tower of Genjei (we all know that Matt knows so many songs from the memories);

3. Elayne, by testing the ter'angreal which contains a thousand of songs.

 

[offtopic]Rand should never have hurt Min alone. Cadsuane should have been in the room as well. Although there is no point in discussing it, I have this need to express my point of view of these events. Rand, Min and Cadsuane in the same room. Semirhage enters and captures Rand, ties Min and Cadsuane with his power. Torturing Cadsuane. Torturing Min. Attemting to kill Cadsuane. Aviendha and Nynaeve entering the room trying to fight Semirhage. Semirhage torturing them all via Rand. Rand reaching for the True Power. Semirhage burnt out of the Pattern. I believe that this would have been a much dramatic development of the events. Cadsuane - exiled (she should have trained him the way Moiraine did, not just bullying him into civility). Nynaeve - gaining Rand's trust for trying to stop Semirhage. Rand - devastated by his consciousness because he had tortured not just one of his loved ones, but two of them. Watcha think :)[/offtopic]

 

Merillil and Talaan. Where the hell did they go? Merillil obviously kidnapped Talaan in order to train her in the Aes Sedai way because she couldn't overcome the fact that there are so few Aes Sedai that are so strong.

 

Noal Charin's plotline clarified. I cannot truly understand his part in all this. I don't think he should be one of the three that rescue Moiraine. Perhaps he will die in front of the Tower and Olver will replace him..?

 

Is this all that we are going to see of Elaida? When I read the chapters with her, I was saying to myself 'It is impossible that someone is so blinded by his/her foolishness' although I have seen many evidences that people from the real world are even worse. I think that Elaida still thinks of herself as the Amyrlin so there might be some chapters with her trying to gain prestige or even authority.

 

Setalle Anan should be more than just Matt's companion. She was brought in these books for a reason. Before she had stilled herself (I really cannot remember what her name was when she had been Aes Sedai...), she had studied ter'angreals. Now that she's in Caemlyn with Elayne, perhaps she will reveal herself and try to help in some way. I really hope that a man Heal her so she could be as strong in the Power as she had been before the accident.

 

Seanchan now know of Traveling. Will they attempt to destroy what Rand has achieved as he and Nyneave fear so?

 

What of the King if Illyan? He still lives in the White Tower. Egween thought of him as a warrior. Perhaps he will claim his throne and Rand will give it to him under the condition that he helped him in TG?

 

What of Alviarin? I am pretty sure that she is going to play a crucially important role but in the last book, not in the next one. I think that BS will let the fans forget about Alviarin in this book.

 

'A remnant of the remnant.' To me, this is Shaido. Perhaps all the Aiel that follow Rand will die in the Last Battle. If that's true, then BS will either kill most of them in this book (if we follow this theory, I consider it as a part of Demandred's plans - to destroy Rand's main battle force (the Aiel) before the Last Battle had begun) and kill the rest of them in the Last Battle or he will kill them all in the Last Battle.

 

This is, pretty much, all I can think of without involving the main plotlines.

[Sharaman]

here is the exact part from Robert Jordan's 'World of Wheel of Time' which mentions the a'dam and its history

 

"The first a’dam was made by an Aes Sedai, Deain, who brought it to Luthair Paendrag in an attempt to curry favor with him. She knew he had no Aes Sedai in his armies, and for the most part the Aes Sedai hated him. Deain believed that Luthair would eventually win and felt that she would be richly rewarded for bringing him a gift that could hand him the Power of the Aes Sedai, willing or not. Several years after that, the first sul’dam were found—women who could learn to channel and had the spark, but could not actually channel without training. These women were considered ideal controllers of the damane, the Leashed Ones. For her trouble Deain was rewarded with imprisonment by her own device. She was, after all, Aes Sedai and thus not to be trusted. It is said her screams “shook the Towers of Midnight.”

 

Once the a’dam gained regular use, the title Aes Sedai disappeared completely from Seanchan, and those who could channel were renamed marath’damane, or Those Who Must Be Leashed."

 

so u see, it WAS some foolish aes sedai who made the first a'dam

 

Does this imply that Luthair's original Sul'dam / damane , other senior officers knew that Sul'dam had the potential to channel and damane could be Sul'dam as well? If so, the knowledge was lost or suppressed over centuries.

I think it was TGH where Egwene was told about a version of the same story about A'dam.

So it may not be that much of a shock to Seanchan-ites when the dirty secret is revealed. There may always have been a small core of people who knew. Sort of like a 13th depository of channelling knowledge that is only accessed on a Need-to-Know basis by senior Sul'dams.

 

[WolfDragonFox]

Yes the Towers of Midnight are in Seanchan but that has pretty much been said that as the title of the next book, it refers to the BT and WT and ToG.  BS himself actually revealed that his first ever title to the next book was The Three Towers ( he said it was a fun play at the LotR 2nd book The Two Towers) These are paraphrases of course and he did say BT and WT and i'm throwing in the ToG because we all pretty well know it is time for some Ghenji action.

[randalthorr]

So the next ones all about the towers. Mat at Genjei, Rand/ Logain and Taim  confront at the black tower, Egwene and the White Tower politics, And Tuon at the towers of midnight at Seanchan.

 

 

And yeah, Hawkwings son initially knew about the Suldam as ones that can be taught to channel but kept it a secret which it remained. From what I recall I read in the 'World of RJ's WOT', none of the existing Seanchan 'Blood' know of it other than the ones who came to know of it in the course of the series.

[WolfDragonFox]

No not all about them, there BS has explicitly said this book will not be as focused as TGS and that we will be jumping around wrapping up some side characters and getting everyone important ready for the last battle but those three will be the epicenter of the ToM book.