Rand the Pitiful... why? *spoilers*

[stoper]

Why Rand became this wreck? Why?

After the first few books I've thinking that Rand will become more and more powerful with the time. Until the Last Battle where he'll be able to stand against the Dark One. If I'm not wrong, DO is some sort of god. And in my imagination the man who want to opose a god must be really powerful. A true Dragon Reborn.

 

Instead of that he became this poor man, both physically and mentally broken. And he's alive only by the good will of his enemyes and some help from his friends.

Now for Tarmon Gai'don we have this one^ against a god... easy bet if you ask me.

 

P.S. Sorry for my poor english, I just want to share my pain with you.

[Davian93]

Because he is 1 man against what seems a constantly increasing stream of enemies both from the Shadow and the Light.  Even those who should be his allies against the Shadow (Egwene, the Tower, Borderland Rulers) are making his life difficult.  That and he is partially mad from the taint and haunted by the women that have died for him.

 

Suggestion: google the term "Fisher King" and see the analogy between that and Rand.

 

Besides there is still time for him to get better before TG...which he almost certainly will with the remergence of Moiraine and Caddys help in learning laughter and tears again.  All hope isn't lost yet.

s

[TurboZ]

Something I always think back on, Lews Therin was a badass. Plain and simple. However he was older, and since we know channelers live a long time, had years of experience. Rand on the other hand, is a kid. He was given huge amounts of power and responsibility with very little guidance. There was noone to teach him to channel when he first began learning. His only real teacher was a man he was taught to despise and fear. His major military learning came from the Aiel, who at first really don't accept him. Every where he goes he has to force his will in order to get things done. For someone who was no more than a farmer, thats a lot to take in and work with. Cut the guy some slack.

[wvlr]

Actually, this is kind of an interesting aspect of the series.    In a lot of fantecy the hero seems to become almost god like prior to the final confrontation.

 

In RJs WoT sure Rand became powerful in some areas but he has had some really hard times as well.    Many right from the beginning - tGH.  It really makes it a valid question as to wheather he will live through the whole ordeal.   

[Thunderbomb]

Everything aside, I believe the only one that can challenge Rand's full strength head on without deception or suprise, is the DO and Moridin.

 

But for the last battle what ever Rand does will probably shock and awe all of us, and what ever he does will probably have a bit of luck involved.

[Gentled Ben]

Well, I really don't think it will be a channeling contest between Rand and the DO; the DO would flat stomp him and any other channeler the world has ever seen. It is his blood, not his weaves, on the rocks of Shayol Ghul that will save mankind. He's a sacrifice, a lamb being led to slaughter, not a OP gunslinger heading out for a duel at high noon.

[TurboZ]

Everything aside, I believe the only one that can challenge Rand's full strength head on without deception or suprise, is the DO and Moridin.

 

But for the last battle what ever Rand does will probably shock and awe all of us, and what ever he does will probably have a bit of luck involved.

 

True, but Moridin doesn't have the Choeden Kal or Callandor. Unless Moridin can draw that much of the True Power, I see Moridin gettin' stomped.

[Saidar]

Doesn't Choeden Kal or the key gets destroyed? I don't see them take a statue like that with them to TG. And Callandor has his downsides. The male channeler needs two women channelers to guide him with Callandor otherwise he gets freaking nuts!

[RobertAlexWillis]

Doesn't Choeden Kal or the key gets destroyed? I don't see them take a statue like that with them to TG. And Callandor has his downsides. The male channeler needs two women channelers to guide him with Callandor otherwise he gets freaking nuts!

 

The female Choedan Kal was destroyed during the Cleansing of saidin (both the access key and the sa'angreal itself).  The male Choedan Kal is fine; both the access key and the sa'angreal are intact.

 

Also, with the taint cleansed, Callandor is much less dangerous than it was.  It's still unbuffered (so a channeler can burn himself out if he's not careful), but it no longer amplifies the taint, because the taint is gone.

 

As for why Rand has become a "wreck" ... try living with another personality in your head, being in love with three women, having the fate of the world rest on your shoulders, having enemies both open and hidden everywhere, and living in constant physical agony.  All before you're 25 years old.  See if you don't become "a wreck".  ::)

[Vambram]

I completely and totally agree, RAW.

Rand al`Thor is NOT a wreck, and everyone who thinks that Rand is a wreck just does not understand Rand nor what he has had to do, or go through, in order to get himself and the world ready so that the DO may be defeated.

[Generic Aelfinn #2]

Also, with the taint cleansed, Callandor is much less dangerous than it was.  It's still unbuffered (so a channeler can burn himself out if he's not careful), but it no longer amplifies the taint, because the taint is gone.

 

are you sure the taint IN the channeler won't be amplified?

 

I've always thought that Rand would use Callandor at the Tarmon Gaidin, amplifying the taint inside of him.  This would result in the total breakdown of whatever barrier that would still exist at that time, giving Lew Therin COMPLETE control over the Rand-body.  At this point, Lews Therin would kill himself(probably killing a whole lot of shit along the way...), fulfilling the 'you must die' part of the Aelfinn answer.

 

*theres a few little details, but they're not necessary for this part of my theory.

[RobertAlexWillis]

are you sure the taint IN the channeler won't be amplified?

 

Am I sure?  No.  Jordan didn't say anything on the subject (that I'm aware of), and we haven't seen anyone use Callandor since Jahar did at the Cleansing.  But I am pretty sure that its more safe now than it was before.  Thats all I said.

 

I'm not sure why Rand would use Callandor when he has the male Choedan Kal still intact.  Callandor has kind of become Narishma's tool, since Rand feels like he can trust Narishma with it.  Perhaps after Logain exposes Taim, Rand lets him use it, which leads to him kicking serious butt at Tarmon Gai'don and his future "glory".  Whatever happens, if it involves the Power at TG, Rand would be a fool to use less than his best, and his best is the Choedan Kal.

[trakand_01]

I'm only up to CoS and although i've read books 8/9/10 once before, I cannot profess to remember more than the basic story line of 8/9 so please forgive me if this is revealed / resolved later in the books.

 

Does / would Logain team up with Rand, for TG? Surely they'd be a force to be reckoned with?

[stoper]

Rand al`Thor is NOT a wreck, and everyone who thinks that Rand is a wreck just does not understand Rand...

See that's the point. I don't THINK, he IS a wreck. RJ made it that way, not my imagination. I'll copy/paste this opinion from one other forum:

"He's a poor crippled bastard - he's lost one arm, he has two unhealing wounds that break open any time he exerts himself, he's got something wrong with his vision (and prophecies have suggested the possibility that he will be blind) and he gets sick everytime he tries to grab the Source. He can't fight, he can't use magic, he has no authority over anybody relevant, and is in fact at the whim of Cadsuane Melaidhrin..."

 

See the posts above, the only priority he have are Chalandor and Choedan Kal. Every random channeler with these sa'angreals will do the same work. And Cadsuane can slap his ass and give them to whoever she want.

No one thinks he'll fight and defeat someone, the important is his blood(dead) on the rocks of Shayol Ghul, like a sacrificial lamb. And that's a pity.

[Vambram]

The person who made that post on another forum is a real knucklehead who REALLY NEEDS to re-read the entire series again, especially all of the scenes that have Rand al`Thor, the Dragon Reborn in them. The statements in that post you quoted are gross exaggerations without a lot of truth in them.

 

[Gentled Ben]

I would only disagree with the last sentence of it, and he's lost a hand, not an entire arm (can still use an elbow strike in hand-to-handless combat :P). Other than that, I'd say it's spot on.

[Guest durram laddel cham]

question about callandor: how do the AS know that there are 2 female cannelers needed to control it safely?

 

ot I think moiraine will just in time before rand is going to make himself evn harder

[Tyrell]

A circle with 1 man and 2 women can be controled by one of the women. With the man not in control he can't go crazy with the power when all that taint is oozing into him, just regular crazy.

[anamul]

Yeah, Rands physical and emotional condition is at a dire state right now. But the way RJ was writing and planning, It is obvious that he was going to make a come back.

 

For cadsuanue being in charge, thats a load of crap. Aiel's loyality is to Rand, wheather he is crippled or not, the sworn aes sedai...there loyality also lies with Rand, not cadsuanue. The sea-folk, Dobrain in Carhairen...there loyality also to Rand. And we saw how nasty Dobrain can get. I like that man.You might have noticed the way he took those noble's out of Cadsuanues nose and the way he confronted her.Aes sedai in general doesn't impress Dobrain. Also, Davram Bashere....where does his loyality lies?

 

Cadsuanue just playing her role, to teach him to laugh and cry. Apart from that, Rand has followed his own plan.

A truce with Seanchan...Cadsuanue didn't like it...but she couldn't stop it, even if she wanted. Rand would have override her.Cleansing Saidin...etc.

 

No, my friend, Cadsuanue isn't as much as in Charge as her followers(Daigin, Samitsu thinks).

[CUBAREY]

Quote:

 

No, my friend, Cadsuane isn't as much as in Charge as her followers(Reign, Samitsu thinks).

 

Very true, and its important to understand that she does not want to be.  She is three hundred years old, a very powerful and feared A.S., she obviously has studied the prophecies and knows her strengths and weaknesses (not that she would acknowledge any of the latter).  She has determined that the best way she can help is by teaching Rand to laugh and cry again (To teach Rand that he is human and  not just "THE DRAGON REBORN").She does what she does because she sees its necessary and is the only person who can do it (Moraine for all her scheming, intelligence and wisdom could not).  As someone stated previously Cadsuane is Rand's Non-Seanchen Voice and like any good Voice she will slap the Emperor's face when needed.  That some readers, like most Seanchen nobles,  find this incredible only goes to show that they do not truly understand the role that Cadsuane/any Voice plays.

 

 

[aevogt]

Your strong characters should have to go through trying times to grow their power and develop their personalities.  Otherwies, you have no idea what motivates their actions.  Look at Simon in "The Dragonbone Chair" 

 

Starving, freezing, about 10 seconds from a hearty meal consisting of a handful of dirt.  Then, and only then, it's the elves to the rescue..  That's a character that stuck with me even though I haven't read Memory, Sorrow and Thorn in about 10 years. 

[Harmless Bandit]

Cadsuane, IMHO, would not try to command or order Rand around, because she knows he would not respond. That's one sure way to get his back up and stiff like a board. In terms of strong wills, I believe Rand is Cadsuane's match (which she would never admit, he's just 'the boy') or otherwise she would swallow him without trying. Is there anywhere in the books where she calls him by his name, by the way?

?Nearly everyone is in awe of her, but she's aware that neither her legendary status nor her strength--on which Rand dwarfs her--will impress him, so she wisely doesn't go by them.

?On the other hand she also knows that Rand would walk on her if she acted like a milksop, so she has to be firm, using another type of strength.

?But, can anyone remind me how often she managed to change his mind?

 

Not that she has any choice, really, it's in her best interest to agree with him in all his 'crazy schemes', as some individuals here would put it.

[Lord_Naryb]

Quote:

 

  As someone stated previously Cadsuane is Rand's Non-Seanchen Voice and like any good Voice she will slap the Emperor's face when needed.  That some readers, like most Seanchen nobles,  find this incredible only goes to show that they do not truly understand the role that Cadsuane/any Voice plays.

 

 

 

wow, I'd never thought of Caddy as a Voice before and have always disliked her, but now I kinda see where she's coming from

[n00l3y]

Rand cannot be ordered around, whether by Cadsuane or his harem or anyone else. In some way, I loathe him for that. A man who gets ordered around, realises that he is in the wrong, yet does his duty with equal diligence and dignity, that's good. Rand's stubborn, yet gets deceived into playing right into the Aes Sedai's hands. That's why I find him weak.

 

We've already heard the millions of valid excuses why Rand's such a wreck; his age, his (bleedy annoying) harem, Lews Therin in his head, etc. All true, all correct, but it doesn't change the fact that Rand can sometimes be an immature, selfish, thoughtless, reckless, wuss. I believe that everyone, whether you count it against him or not, has seen that at some point or other.

 

Yet, as previous posters have stated, it makes life interesting. Perhaps Rand's going through some metamophosis. Perhaps he's not meant to survive TG. Perhaps he's not expected to fight. Whatever it is, I pity the feeble pawn he's become. I suppose being the Dragon Reborn, co-existing with Aes Sedai everyday, chatting with a madman, getting swarmed by feminists, etc...yeah, it gets to you eventually.

[krelianzg]

As someone stated previously Cadsuane is Rand's Non-Seanchen Voice and like any good Voice she will slap the Emperor's face when needed.  That some readers, like most Seanchen nobles,  find this incredible only goes to show that they do not truly understand the role that Cadsuane/any Voice plays.

 

Truthspeaker, not Voice. Cadsuane is most definitely Rand's version of Anath, minus the Forsaken-ness, of course (that we know of :o).

 

While she has yet to teach her "lesson" to Rand and the Asha'man, I think her biggest contribution to the Light so far has been her ability to stand up to Rand and tell it like it is. He's constantly surrounded by people who are in love with him, deathly afraid of him, want to kill him, or some combination of the three. Having his own personal Women's Circle to follow him around and point out when he's acting the fool is an invaluable asset, which I think Rand is fully aware of at this point.