S3E4 - The Road to the Spear

[SinisterDeath]

Season 3 - Episode 4: The Road to the Spear
Director: Thomas Napper

Writers: Rafe Judkins

Runtime: 1 h 8 min

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Episode Description: Rand faces the forgotten history of his family as Moiraine learns the devastating truth of her future.

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Let's keep DM Tidy, and try to keep all discussions pertaining to S3E4:The Road to the Spear to this topic for the next few weeks.

When reading beyond this point, you should expect to encounter Full Spoilers Up to the ending of Episode 4 only, and full book spoilers in this topic.

[A Memory Of Why]

Well that was super fun, best episode to date for me.

 

Gunna need to get my thoughts straightened out but it's something like..

 

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😆 😃 😊 🤗 🥲 🤯 😊 🤤 🥺 🥹 😭 😲 😳 😃 😇..

 

😱 😤

 

😢

 

[zacz1987]

While I really enjoyed this episode I feel they missed out on the scale of the Aiel in the visions. There should have been huge camps of Aiel moving around - but it seemed that there was only a handful of people travelling with the Tree of Life. In the vision after the Tuatha'an left there seemed to only be the grandfather and grandson and noone else which was strange. 

 

There should have been a huge number of Jenn Aiel which dwindled over time so the size of the camp should increase as they go back in time, not decrease.

[A Memory Of Why]

  On 3/20/2025 at 9:22 AM, zacz1987 said:

While I really enjoyed this episode I feel they missed out on the scale of the Aiel in the visions. There should have been huge camps of Aiel moving around - but it seemed that there was only a handful of people travelling with the Tree of Life. In the vision after the Tuatha'an left there seemed to only be the grandfather and grandson and noone else which was strange. 

 

There should have been a huge number of Jenn Aiel which dwindled over time so the size of the camp should increase as they go back in time, not decrease.

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Yeah I noticed that too. The whole series has been a bit like that, it's like they're can't afford extras.. don't they cost like a happy meal?

 

** insert meme - "can I offer you an egg in these trying times" **

[zacz1987]

Yeah I don't quite get it - you don't even need that many extras - crowds can be quite easily made using CGI etc when you only have a few extras. 

 

Overall though this season has definitely been an improvement from the previous two. 

[Mirefox]

I liked seeing Rand training and explaining the flame and the void.  They need to drop the “I look like them [Aiel]” thing, though.  Aside from the way they dress, the Aiel are completely heterogenous in this show, so why continue to write lines about their distinct looks?  I don’t care if that’s how they wanted to cast it, but then it makes comments about how Rand looks come across as poorly written.  

[Mirefox]

  On 3/20/2025 at 9:22 AM, zacz1987 said:

While I really enjoyed this episode I feel they missed out on the scale of the Aiel in the visions. There should have been huge camps of Aiel moving around - but it seemed that there was only a handful of people travelling with the Tree of Life. In the vision after the Tuatha'an left there seemed to only be the grandfather and grandson and noone else which was strange. 

 

There should have been a huge number of Jenn Aiel which dwindled over time so the size of the camp should increase as they go back in time, not decrease.

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I was thinking the same when Avi faced off with Lan.  There was some whooping in the background (I sounded like from one Aiel), but the camp felt empty.

[Mirefox]

That was a good episode.  I am curious, though, how it is received by non-book readers.  Even in the book the time jumps took a little effort to follow at first.

 

I still wish they’d clean up some of the unforced errors.  For example, why was Janduin fighting and killing without a veil?  They then make the point of explaining veils later in the episode.  Why explain lore and worldbuild but then break your own rules?

[LTL]

Wow, that was incredible. I was worried that they hadn't built up the knowledge of the Aiel enough to have the Rhuidean episode pay off yet but they smashed it out the park. Beat all expectations of how well they would manage to do it.

 

  On 3/20/2025 at 9:22 AM, zacz1987 said:

While I really enjoyed this episode I feel they missed out on the scale of the Aiel in the visions. There should have been huge camps of Aiel moving around - but it seemed that there was only a handful of people travelling with the Tree of Life. In the vision after the Tuatha'an left there seemed to only be the grandfather and grandson and noone else which was strange. 

 

There should have been a huge number of Jenn Aiel which dwindled over time so the size of the camp should increase as they go back in time, not decrease.

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A lot of Aiel set off initially in lots of groups, each with a cutting of the Tree of Life. I took that to explain why they were moving around in small groups in future generations. The grandfather said they were going to meet others but having that small group and only the two of them stick with it helped to show how hard the path they were on was for me.

[king of nowhere]

if the show gets deleted tomorrow, i will be happy i got this episode. it was everything i could hope for.

 

well, i was hoping we'd see a bit more of the age of legends and the breaking of the world, but that will do.

the hole in the sky was chilling.

 

the wall of spears, with the "leave your weapons here, you will take them back if you return" gives a very strong sense of how much time has passed, and how many aiel died because they couldn't bear the secrets of rhuidean. the corpses littering the columns are also a deviation from the books that works perfectly.

Edited 23 hours ago by king of nowhere

[Kaleb]

  On 3/20/2025 at 1:46 PM, Mirefox said:

That was a good episode.  I am curious, though, how it is received by non-book readers.  Even in the book the time jumps took a little effort to follow at first.

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If you want some reactions from show-only fans, this reddit thread has some great ones.

 

[Kaleb]

Got up a little earlier than usual to watch this episode before going to work, and it was almost everything I hoped for.

 

LOVE

- Josha's performance in all his ancestor's lives. So powerful to see it onscreen, as my head-canon was never very clear on the characters' faces.

- The time devoted to each scene, making clear what the point of each step on the road to the spear was. They skipped the gift of water scene with the Cairhienin ancestors, but the brief lore dump from Moiraine filled in that important piece. The look on Rand's face as he understood how deeply he and Moiraine are connected was priceless.

- The cinematography for Moiraine's visions was great, the rotation and rapid-fire changes cut to her shocked face really worked to give a sense of that experience.

- Latra Sedai! Oh man, I'm choked up just thinking of her off-screen experience through all those visions. And her scene at avendesora was so powerful, raising the glass columns and calling the Aiel oathbreakers.

- The rescue scene where they pick up the spear and are then exiled was the best of the bunch. Such an emotional scene, I teared up there too.

- Mierin unleashing the Dark One was incredible. Such a core memory for ME that I am still having first-watch quibbles with the execution on the show (BLACK FIRE!), but I can't wait to see it again, just like I read those chapters in the books dozens of times.

 

MEH

- Agreed on the need for extras in the earlier Aiel scenes. Even if they all set out separately, they clearly had a larger caravan in the books.

- Agreed on the inconsistency with using the veil. They gave us a powerful intro to it, we should have seen it more prominently in the previous/later scenes.

- Some of Josha's makeup was a bit overdone, it took me out of the moment briefly.

Edited 22 hours ago by Kaleb

[Turin Turambar]

I didn't really miss the extras. It shows the Aiel setting out in 10000 individual wagons. Some would have formed up together at points but any scene could be a small group experiencing the difficulty of traversing the land in those tumultuous times. In the grandfather scene, it appears that they had just been attacked. So how many were killed and possibly carried off with wagons of treasure in that attack? I felt it showed that although most everyone abandoned the mission they were given, a remnant of a remnant held true and finally made it to Rhuidian.

 

Overall, I felt it was very well done. Only slight issue was Avi v. LAN. She is really cool but only Rhuarc is probably an even match for Lan. BTW, I absolutely love the guy playing Rhuarc.  He is doing a super job.

[Pandemonium]

tried to reply to this thread without reading anyone else's replies first.

a few thoughts;

1.  pretty much perfect episode.  single best adapted episode directly from the books

2.  this is one of the few wheel of time episodes with no cold open

3.  absolutely loved all the book references about Tam being a blademaster, the flame and the void, Laman's pride and the Aiel war, and the whole chain of events that took place to connect Moiraine and Rand

4.  the only thing that kind of annoyed me was Aviendha going to Rhuidean so early.  This means we won't get the excellent book scene of Aviendha  finally stepping up and acknowleding herself as a Wise One.  this also means no Nakomi.

5.  No separate Choedan Kal and Callandor--- this is all fine, but I really hope we still get Rand's breakdown scene on dragonmount where he break's the male Choedan Kal.   

6.  all of Aiel scenes were fantastic, but I don't think they gave the viewer a very good scale of how many Jenn Aiel were there.  

[DaddyFinn]

  19 hours ago, Pandemonium said:

4.  the only thing that kind of annoyed me was Aviendha going to Rhuidean so early.  This means we won't get the excellent book scene of Aviendha  finally stepping up and acknowleding herself as a Wise One.  this also means no Nakomi.

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Didn't she go in book 4 as well to begin her Wise One training? She went second time in book 13(?) and became a Wise One?

This episode was very very good. The glass columns were executed near perfectly. I wanted to see more of the Bore and Breaking but I'm sure that will happen later in this season or in future seasons.

Edited 19 hours ago by DaddyFinn

[Skipp]

  19 hours ago, Pandemonium said:

4.  the only thing that kind of annoyed me was Aviendha going to Rhuidean so early.  This means we won't get the excellent book scene of Aviendha  finally stepping up and acknowleding herself as a Wise One.  this also means no Nakomi.

 

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Wise ones go to Rhuidean twice, the first for the Rings to become apprentices and then to the columns to become full Wise Ones

[Gary Again]

I thought they did a great job with it and I thought the way they showed the 3 rings was awesome and the visuals and sound combined to make things seem otherworldly. I thought they hit all of the important notes  with both Rand and Moraine and I liked how they both shared that moment at the end. I liked how Rand played all of his ancestors and I like how there was a Mat and Perrin type when they went to take on the bandits I thought that was a nice touch. Also really enjoyed the Mieren part it was nice to see them talk, nice to just tie back to how long it's been and she's still the same person and then the dark one part was really great again I thought the audio they did here was really nice and added to the scene. Then seeing the breaking and start of the Aiel journey and the way they through in the modern shoes was cool. With Moraine I hope that some of those are actual scenes that we end up seeing, some should be choices that she shouldn't make but some should be the path that she has to take so it will be cool if they use some of those. 

 

Couladin was nice to see and Savanna as well. I kind of feel like maybe they chase the Shaido to Tear instead of Cairhen and if they do that it will be kind of funny if Mat kills Couladin without knowing who he is. Like what that dude was supposed to be a big deal or something? lol. Also looks like snakes and foxes isn't happening which I get that may be a bit too strange and also hard to do visually while eating up a ton of budget and not having that much to do with the main story. Makes me wonder how Mat is going to get his stuff. Maybe they do snakes and foxes just with Mat and he finds a door in Tanchico or maybe Mat just finds his stuff in Tanchico with the wonder girls. Too bad I really loved the scene in the books where everyone keeps stepping out of the red stone door lol like who didn't walk through this thing.

 

One thing I missed was the buildings in Rhuidian being modern but then the shoe part was great so I thought maybe that was more powerful and they already kind of did the buildings with the season 1 flashback so overall it was fine but I thought that was cool how the Aiel live in them so maybe we still get that part. Also miss Rand pulling up water but there is a cooler scene with that later so again maybe we still get this part. I don't miss the Cheodan Kal too much it is kind of redundant with Callandor and this orb still gets the point across that the Aiel needed to carry that sphere to Rhuidian and I like how the tree grew around it I thought it was a cool touch.

 

Overall I thought it was awesome and Rhuidian is not an easy thing to get across but I thought they did a great job and got the main points across well. The visuals of the 3 rings with Avi floating there were amazing that part really stands out to me and then the modern shoe for Rand's second to last vision was done really well also. I guess I'd add that the coming with the dawn looked beautiful as well great shots in general Rhuidian looked amazing.

[Pandemonium]

  19 hours ago, DaddyFinn said:

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Didn't she go in book 4 as well to begin her Wise One training? She went second time in book 13(?) and became a Wise One?

This episode was very very good. The glass columns were executed near perfectly. I wanted to see more of the Bore and Breaking but I'm sure that will happen later in this season or in future seasons.

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i stand corrected on the wise ones going to rhuidean twice, haven't read the books since Sanderson finished them up over a decade ago.

 

I agree about the Bore.  I mean we pretty much have to see Shayol Ghul at some point, right?  I can understand why they didn't want to show it so soon to avoid comparisons to LOTR.  I'm also curious to see if we will get a Shaidar Haran.  It seems like we might since they have already talked about Naeblis and the true power now.  

 

A visit to Shayol Ghul would be pretty epic though.  I truly can't wait.  

[notpropaganda73]

Wow. 
 

I will post more detailed thoughts another time but can I just say that it is quite amazing how much dense lore and worldbuilding they are able to get across in such a short timeframe. 
 

I have some complaints of course 😅 but I think as a standalone episode it is an incredible piece of work.

 

bravo to Josha and the entire team on this

[A Memory Of Why]

  18 hours ago, Gary Again said:

Also looks like snakes and foxes isn't happening which I get that may be a bit too strange and also hard to do visually while eating up a ton of budget and not having that much to do with the main story. Makes me wonder how Mat is going to get his stuff. Maybe they do snakes and foxes just with Mat and he finds a door in Tanchico or maybe Mat just finds his stuff in Tanchico with the wonder girls. Too bad I really loved the scene in the books where everyone keeps stepping out of the red stone door lol like who didn't walk through this thing.

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I can see why they didn't want Mat there, it's already got a lot going on and having a 3rd pov with something else out of this world could be a bit much, not to mention less time on Rand.

 

He doesn't do much in the waste anywho, other than the Finns and complaining about being there.

 

Regarding the Finns:

 

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Imbd has someone cast as a Finn for one episode 😃

 

I'm still going with my prediction from the trailer that Mat will go through a doorway in Tanchico and pop out in Rhuidean, in time for Rand to lead the Aiel back and find him hanging from the tree.

 

Notice Moraines hat is different in the teaser as they're standing over Rhuidean, I'm thinking that's them coming back.

 

Interestingly, Rhuidean is still foggy.. maybe a different fight will make Rand create the lake?

 

Such a wetlander thing to do.

[Sabio]

  On 3/20/2025 at 9:22 AM, zacz1987 said:

While I really enjoyed this episode I feel they missed out on the scale of the Aiel in the visions. There should have been huge camps of Aiel moving around - but it seemed that there was only a handful of people travelling with the Tree of Life. In the vision after the Tuatha'an left there seemed to only be the grandfather and grandson and noone else which was strange. 

 

There should have been a huge number of Jenn Aiel which dwindled over time so the size of the camp should increase as they go back in time, not decrease.

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Sort of how I felt, it was a good episode but something about left me feeling unsatisfied.  Glad a whole episode was devoted to it.  I think a huge miss was not showing the Aiel handing over the sapling and explaining what the debt they had was.  After Moiraine mentioning the cutting down, I think seeing what caused the debt would have been a must see.

 

As others mentioned, seeing all of the spears left by those who never returned was a pretty nice visual.

Edited 16 hours ago by Sabio

[king of nowhere]

  17 hours ago, A Memory Of Why said:

Interestingly, Rhuidean is still foggy.. maybe a different fight will make Rand create the lake?

 

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in the books, the lake is created when a subsequent fight cracks the ground. there's plenty of groundwater underneath the waste.

[TheBlueStuff96]

I just watched Season 3 Episode 4. Wow. Just … wow. You know, since season 1, I’ve been comparing the show to the book. At times happy, or disappointed, or confused with thier interpretation of the events of the book we all love. For the first time, episode 4 just made my mind blank: no comparisons. I just watched and was so immersed and pulled into it. It’s  different to what happened in the book but it’s so well done, so intimate and psychedelic… Jeezuz that was such an experience to watch. I think I’m going to re-read the Rhudien arc of the books again just to relive that moment. 

[A Memory Of Why]

  15 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

in the books, the lake is created when a subsequent fight cracks the ground. there's plenty of groundwater underneath the waste.

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Yep, I was pointing out when they return in the books (which is off screen) the lake is already formed.

 

And in the teaser they're standing over Rhuidean and Moraine is wearing a different hat, an interesting hat 🤔

[A Memory Of Why]

  14 hours ago, TheBlueStuff96 said:

I just watched Season 3 Episode 4. Wow. Just … wow. You know, since season 1, I’ve been comparing the show to the book. At times happy, or disappointed, or confused with thier interpretation of the events of the book we all love. For the first time, episode 4 just made my mind blank: no comparisons. I just watched and was so immersed and pulled into it. It’s  different to what happened in the book but it’s so well done, so intimate and psychedelic… Jeezuz that was such an experience to watch. I think I’m going to re-read the Rhudien arc of the books again just to relive that moment. 

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It was fantastic wasn't it, gripped me by his hairy bits the whole episode. To date no other episode gave me a sense of lost time like this, suddenly it's over and I'm thinking, wow that was an hour?

 

Dang, if any episode deserved to be movie length.. blood and bloody ashes Amazon need to loosen the reigns and take a few steps back 😠