I found it interesting to take a look at the number of people giving imdb episode ratings at the start and end of the first couple of seasons of WoT and a few other fantasy shows to get an idea of the audience retention and engagement. This is far from a comprehensive or accurate picture of the shows for reasons including, but not limited to, how long ago they were released, streamed or not, episode release schedule, popularity of the particular episodes etc. I think it gives at least some information though so I'll share here in case anyone else finds it interesting. WoT: S1E1 - 12.3k, S1E8 - 7.9k, S2E1 - 3.4k, S2E8 - 3.3k GoT: S1E1 - 53k, S1E10 - 43k, S2E1 - 33k, S2E10 - 37k Witcher: S1E1 - 25.8k, S1E8 - 21.5k, S2E1 - 14.8k, S2E8 - 12.3k Shannara: S1E1 - 2.1k, S1E10 - 1.2k, S2E1 - 920, S2E10 - 620 RoP: S1E1 - 52k, S1E8 - 27k Biggest surprise for me is RoP having a similar number of ratings as GoT for S1E1. WoT numbers fit with the narrative that the quality of S1 disappointed a little but better for retaining interest than Shannara and RoP. Then a poor finale, 2 year break, and lack of promotion for S2 hit numbers hard (although it is recent so numbers should creep up) but quality of S2 is actually good so it has retained interest well for the early viewers of it at least. Fwiw GoT holds its numbers for S3 while the Witcher plummets fairly hard. Hopefully those S2 numbers for WoT increase significantly over time and the later viewers also remain engaged.

This was clearly in defence of her life with trollocs charging towards her so it is not relevant to the ship scenario.

Not necessarily. If you stab a victim with a knife then you have used the knife as a weapon so this could be why the word victim is used in that particular definition. We don't generally describe implements of punishments or torture as weapons although torture certainly starts to get pretty questionable. However, we absolutely do describe missiles used to attack structures/drones/vehicles as weapons. If Ukraine used a missile to sink a Russian ship then people would say that they used US supplied weapons to sink the ship etc (even if the ship were unmanned). I feel like this may be the first time in history that people have tried to make the argument that something used to sink an enemy ship wasn't a weapon.

Do we see any examples in the 14 book WOT series of Aes Sedai using the one power against an enemy structure when it is not in defence of their or their warder's life? Genuine question, the answer may be yes. If not then it seems pretty unlikely that RJ was using an incorrect interpretation of the word "weapon". If yes then it becomes much murkier.

These arguments saying that Moiraine didn't use the one power as a weapon are absurd. A few definitions of "weapon" from dictionaries: "any object used in fighting or war" "something used to injure, defeat, or destroy" "a means of contending against another" "any instrument or device for use in attack or defense in combat, fighting, or war, as a sword, rifle, or cannon." "anything used against an opponent, adversary, or victim:" Nowhere in the definitions does it say or imply that a weapon has to be something that is used directly against the human body or with an intention to physically harm a human. If you fire a cannon at an enemy ship then you are using it as a weapon, regardless of your intention to only sink the ship and not directly hit enemy soldiers. If you use a missile to hit an unmanned enemy drone then you are using the missile as a weapon against your enemy, even though you have no chance of harming an enemy soldier. The three oaths do not make any mention of not using the one power to try to kill someone, they state that it may not be used as a weapon. These are different things and we know that the wording of the oaths is crucial. People arguing here that Moiraine could do this because she wasn't trying to directly hurt/kill anyone are arguing a point in which they are wrong even if they are right. Even if it is true that she wasn't trying to directly hurt/kill anyone, she still used the one power as a weapon by any correct definition of weapon. If you're trying to defend the show for this scene then the only sensible angle to do so from is to say that Moiraine believes that Rand being shielded by multiple damane while facing Ishamael means that she can use the one power as a weapon because she believes it is in the last extreme defence of Rand's life and by extension, the last extreme defence of her own life because Rand's death will inevitably lead to her own. I really enjoyed season 2 and I'd like to keep it that way so I'm more than happy to grasp onto a plausible explanation and go with it rather than being annoyed that it makes no sense but the "wasn't used as a weapon" argument is not a plausible explanation.

It seems pretty clear that using the one power in the way Moiraine did to sink the ship was using it as a weapon. Unless we are going to say that cannons and artillery are not weapons, which they are by every reasonable definition. The only justification I can see under the oaths is that Moiraine believed that the Dragon's life was in imminent danger and thus she could use the one power as a weapon to defend him because to do so is actually in the last extreme defence of both her own and her warders life (and everyone else's). If the Dragon dies, Moiraine and Lan will die at the Last Battle, if not before, so even though her life isn't in imminent danger, it is in inevitable, extreme danger, so she could see it as a last, extreme defence of her own life to save the Dragon from Ishamael. To be really clear on this, you could view it as a situation similar to using the one power as a weapon to stop someone from giving you a poison that would inevitably kill you within the next 2 years. Your life is not in imminent danger but you could still use the one power as a weapon in defence of your life to stop this happening I would think. I think this must be what they were clumsily trying to get Moiraine to explain (they failed) when she said that she could and would kill 1000 innocents to save Rand. I don't think the scene was well done because it looks very much like she broke the oaths and (as can be seen from the lengthy discussion here) the reasoning for why she might not have done is unclear and unexplained. This is the most coherent explanation for why she was able to make the statement about killing innocents and then take this action though, so I would imagine it is the justification that the show has in mind.

4,6,7 and 8 are just differences that may or may not turn out to be bad depending on how things go from here. Yes they are different to the source material but I'm happy to just wait and see how they work in the show before considering getting annoyed about them. If you're annoyed there are changes then yes of course, you're right there are lots of changes. Discussion on that is surely settled by now. It seems too early to determine if these particular changes make for a bad show though.

My default assumption since Rosamund was announced in the role has been that she probably wouldn't want to be involved in the show for over a decade and they likely planned to make Moiraine's death real in the show as a massive main character death to rival GoT. I figured this fit in nicely with making her the main character in the early seasons, increasing the impact when it happens. Obviously that has ripple effects on the later part of the story and I'm in no way saying that this will definitely happen but it seems like a realistic possibility? It may also not be decided yet how they'll deal with it. Might depend on things such as the success of the show, Rosamund's desire to continue, budget future seasons are given etc.

I agree that they pushed the women forwards in the show compared to TEOTW book in terms of giving them more big moments and the men less. I'd even agree they went a bit too far with it. Rand was relegated from being the main hero and narrator. Mat was made "darker". Perrin killed his wife and was a bit of an emotional mess as a result. Lan was less of an invincible superhero than he appeared through Rand's eyes in TEOTW. Meanwhile, Nynaeve and Egwene were made stronger than they were in the TEOTW and Moiraine was made the main character. Quite clearly, the direction of travel from the books was in favour of strong women and away from strong men. I do think reactions to that can be overblown though and it's something I felt less on later rewatches than I did when the series first came out. Firstly, TEOTW is almost entirely told from Rand's POV and probably has a greater proportion of interesting/great things done by men compared to women than the rest of the book series. It probably makes sense for the show to move things more in line with the rest of the series on this point, as they have with various other things. I think part of my feeling about it came from direction of travel from the book rather than objectively women being portrayed as way better than men in the show. Secondly, there were good moments for men, even if they did give Nynaeve the most extreme awesome moments in season 1. To name a few off the top of my head: Tam and Rand kill a Trolloc they weren't prepared for while the village falls apart until Moiraine and Lan's arrival. Lan takes down a bunch of Trollocs. Mat runs back into the carnage to find his sisters. Logain cold open of ep4 and then later melting his cage. Thom throws a dagger through a darkfriend's throat and then takes on a Fade to save Rand and Mat. There were also negative/less strong moments for the main women. For example, Nynaeve's pride having the potential to kill Mat by not getting Moiraine's help. Moiraine gets hit by a trolloc spear in ep1 and spends time out of action as a result. In general tv/film history you have a million things where the men are the clear heroes and it's just considered normal but anything where the balance may be tilted the other way and there will be a ton of debate, analysis and criticism of it from certain quarters. Cast your mind back to see if you can think of any examples in the history of knowing your brother when he said "Seems to me like this is just another 'men are the heroes, women do nothing' story, not gonna watch any more of that." I'd be prepared to wager he has never said it and I would also be prepared to wager that he has watched many things that would fit that description. Personally, I will find it very irritating if they go through the entire show with the women getting all the biggest moments and Rand's role getting cut back at every opportunity. I'm not watching it looking for an opportunity to get annoyed at each season where the balance swings towards cool moments for women if the balance varies season to season though so I'll just see how it plays out in Season 2 and beyond. Season 1 was one way but not to an absurd extreme when looking in absolute terms rather than comparing moments to TEOTW imho.

As a book reader and long-time lurker, I have finally been inspired to post in case my experience with a re-watch helps encourage anyone else to go for it. I had mixed feelings watching the show the first time round. Before the opening credits of Episode 1 we'd already had Moiraine say that the Dragon could be a woman (I'm glad they released that scene before episode 1 aired so I didn't have to digest that as I sat down to watch Ep1) and Liandrin say that the power "isn't meant" for men. I think all the reviews saying that the writers clearly haven't read the books were pretty inevitable given the choice to really slam it in viewers faces that there would be large changes from the first second of the show and then try to win them back. If they wanted to expand the possible dragons, I think a better choice would have been to start with everyone assuming the dragon would be a man and then a couple of episodes in have Egwene ask Moiraine how we can be sure that the Dragon will be reborn a man and Moiraine reply that as people don't remember past lives, it's not really possible to be sure if people are always reborn with the same gender. You'd still have some complaints but I think most book readers would agree that it makes a lot of sense that characters in world would not have much idea about how re-incarnation works exactly. That would feel like better writing to me than to shoehorn in Moiraine stressing in a show opening speech that that they don't know if it'll be a man or woman. The show then continues and I loved winternight, thought the end of Episode 1 was a bit ridiculous with everyone happy to let Moiraine take the 5 of them with trollocs descending on the village with no dissenting voices. The pacing didn't feel great for the first few episodes but I enjoyed parts. Loved Episode 4 and hoped the series had finally hit it's stride. Brought back down to earth with Episode 5. Didn't love the Steppin arc, especially Lan at the end of the episode. I rewatched each episode before the next one was out and always enjoyed it more the second time when the shock of some of the bits I didn't like had passed a little but I couldn't stomach a second viewing of episode 8. Overall, I would have rated the show at 6-7 out of 10. It was great to see the characters brought to life (loved the casting) and to see some of the story on screen, which it seemed like may never happen. However, it seemed like a missed opportunity to do better. Had it been 6-7 out of 10 and really close to the books I'd have loved it, or had it been 8-9 out of 10 with a lot of changes I'd have loved it, but to make so many changes and not really knock it out the park seemed a bit of a shame. Anyway, fast forward 18 months or so and I finally got round to watching ROP. It was no GOT but I quite enjoyed it, thought it was better than WOT although I don't have any real allegiance to the source material for it. When a friend said they thought the two shows were of similar quality it got me thinking that maybe I was being too harsh on the WOT due to the changes made so I gave it another re-watch, going into it with the pain from the bad bits and changes faded over time and I enjoyed it a lot more. Some of it still seemed pretty bad but I did find that some of my complaints were probably not really valid or were at least overblown and I wouldn't have given them a second thought in any other show. I recently gave it a final re-watch before series 2 came out and I mostly really enjoyed it. Focusing on the positives and letting the negatives wash over me made me appreciate that I was actually getting to watch some version of my favourite book series from a couple of decades ago. If you really hated it then I imagine a re-watch will do nothing but anger you more but if you find yourself somewhat on the fence like I was then I'd recommend watching it with the mindset of just enjoying the bits you found to be positives and maybe you can find yourself enjoying it more and looking forward to season 2!