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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY
JenniferL

Lets talk about The Consolidation =)

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I personally am in favor of the move. To me, it's a pain in the butt to have to go look at all these extar board. I am a member of DM, not all these other boards. It's easier to have all the information at your fingertips, rather than spread out everywhere, especially when important org stuff is at the off-site and then you have to go there to check it.

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I wasn't going to reply to that Tig, but if I don't then it gets accepted as fact or valid because its not rebutted.

 

We have Band boards at DM. And not that I post there often, but you don't bother to participate there as much as I do! And there it is, right at your fingertips. No one says you have to go to the offsites. Anything important is posted at DM and lots of things we do not do at the offsites, only at DM. We do stuff that cannot or will not be allowed to be replicated on DM...

 

I enjoy doing sigs.. and not the postage stamps approved at here. But thats just cosmetics (it is part of what makes us successful as on Org. though)... We do ceremonies, we do stories, which are a form of RP. But those and many other like things won't be allowed because it "infringes" on some other Orgs or Divs territory.. You want OUR ceremonies, our awards etc. posted on some board God knows where, whose Mod knows not the first thing about our Org? Gimme a break! That cuts the heart out of who we are! Kath and Jason both have been invited numerous times to visit and see what it is we do and why we are so adamant about keeping what we have worked to do.. But have they?

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Correction Manny,

 

If you are a member of the Band at DM, you have to register at the offsite Proboards as well.  To complete Raw Recruit training and to become part of a Reg, you have to go to the Band offsite.  To earn promotion points, you have to participate in the Band offsites.  To play the Band's game you have to do so at the Offsite.  The majority of all activity of the Band is at the offsite.  Announcements are at the offsite.  Some are also on DM.  JoTS and Roll Call are the only things on DM that is a must to participate in and not available on the band boards.

 

Tig has also officially been on LOA from the Band, which would explain his lack of activity here at DM or on the offsites.

 

Edit to add another thought....Jason and Corki are emailing and talking to work on things, and Jason has also said that we, The Band, are a unique situation.  Before getting hostile about how this is going to be, let them discuss how it can be.  Perhaps some of the things just need to be clarified, all along we are being told they are willing to work with us, so let's try that out first.  Please...

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Kath and Jason both have been invited numerous times to visit and see what it is we do and why we are so adamant about keeping what we have worked to do.. But have they?

 

You're probably not aware of this, due to a saved cookie you've forgotten about, but the Band's boards are completely inaccessible without some sort of password. Its impossible to even lurk there without it. That's not an open invitation.

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lol *sighs*  ahh feels all natural!!!  People still debating what ajah I should be!!  I also have a green stripe and a blue one...and I am positive there is red and yellow in there too... :o  Oh light!!  Maybe I am a Mumsy mini-me!!!

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The reason for that is that they are private boards... patently obvious. People are expected to be DM members and registered here before they join the off sites... precisely so we don't divert traffic away from DM. If they have to register here, chances are, like most other Band members, they'll also join and be active at other Orgs.

 

The invitation was extended (by me to Jason at any rate and from Horn to Kath I believe, although correct me if I'm wrong) to come join, like any other member, and have a look themselves at what our concerns are and the scale of the issues. So yes, it is an open invitation on the same level as anyone else gets. The boards are there to be looked at for anyone who cares to take the 3 minutes time and effort to join (that's if what we're being told about two way dialogue is true of course.) We appreciate people are busy, so are we, it doesn't have to be done right this second but the invites were issued over a week ago and remain open. The next move is down to Staff.

 

Correction Manny,

 

If you are a member of the Band at DM, you have to register at the offsite Proboards as well.

 

No, you don't. We don't force people to join the off sites. There's nothing stopping people just playing at DM if that's what they want to do.

 

To earn promotion points, you have to participate in the Band offsites.

 

No you don't, roll call, JotS and other activities at DM get you points. 

 

Tig has also officially been on LOA from the Band, which would explain his lack of activity here at DM or on the offsites.

 

No, it doesn't. Tig, (no offense hun, its your choice and I know you're busy elsewhere), hasn't ever been active at the Band even when not on LOA.

 

Before getting hostile about how this is going to be, let them discuss how it can be.

 

There was nothing hostile said. Manny merely expressed an opinion and a perfectly reasonable one at that. There'd be a lot less arguing here if people would stop putting meanings and intentions to folks words that aren't even there. How many times have people pointed out that text can be easily misconstrued? Why don't you try just reading what someone says and responding to the points they raise rather than slinging accusations of being hostile? (And yes, I've made that mistake myself so don't think I'm lecturing, its merely a suggestion).

 

I'm seeing a lot of talk on various boards accusing people moaning, whining, complaining etc just because they spoke their minds. That's not only unfair, its insulting. Not the most tactful way to get people to work together. What did any of you expect? Everyone to follow along quietly like sheep without expressing their feelings or views? Don't be so naive, :-\ its a community, the whole place is about being able to do those very things. Not to mention these specific threads were ostensibly started for that very reason. Of course folks will vent. Its not right to slam them for doing so.

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I just wanted to comment that I see names in here from the Band that I have never seen before on DM. I get around, even to the Band on occasion but... *shrugs*

We have a few Greens that are members so... I go to see their activity levels. I am a spy.  :P

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lmao  :o you are? Yeah, there are a couple who have posted who are purely Band members. Ash and Kris I think. The others, so far, belong to other Orgs as well. :)

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Yeah im just wondering is it policy to completly ignore org leaders who just happen to speak their mind around here. Kath, Owen, Fader, Jason, anybody one of you must have answers to my questions and concerns i really dont care which one of you it is but i do expect some sort of response as a member of Dragonmount and the staff i do believe that i am entitled to some rights around here. And no i will not shut up or go away until i hear something definite.

 

Well as this is a PUBLIC issue now The poll results in the staff board are out though i would like to point out that in a vote most of the staff were opposed to the idea.

 

As my second in command pointed out the main grief with the wolfkin is about control. We just had to deal with kath on the issue of leadership and it took somewhere close to a month, a month and a half before that was sorted out. During which time, We were struggeling to stay above water as an org. We had no clear chain of command or staff though we got through it and are a strong orginization within DM today. We do not want to wait around to make changes to our boards or our leadership team within the org if the subdomains go through. Some boards might last a month or 2 due to speacial progects that we are doing and some might be a permanant fixture to our org. If it was left to just kath and the admins to do we might have weeks in between responses as they have responsibilities we dont have but we would also like to move foward with our plans.

 

Another issue I have with all of this is the way it was handed down and the way its been handled thus far. I came into this with a fairly open mind. I tried to work with the DM staff but after a few emails communication stopped. It was suddenly do this or else from kathana. In the e-mails from jason that i had he seemed very reasonable and asked for the url to the wolfkin's offboards so he could look around and see for himself what exactly made our boards so speacial that we wouldnt want to get rid of them. I posted a poll not to long ago in the staff board to get the feel of the rest of the staff as to how they felt. The responses poured in then corki came back from vacation and voiced his opinion. That was when the threats started from the staff in earnest. Now i know corki isnt known for being the most level headed person on DM and truth be told neither am I. I am having to force myself to remain calm and open throughout this whole post. But to start with threatening a well respected org leader was not the best way to convince me to be cooperative. I consider corki a close friend though we have butted heads on a few occasions in the past we always know that DM is buisness and that doesnt affect us as people. We've always come to a peaceful solution to our problems without threats or promises of bannings or firings of staff within the band.

 

I am very angry and upset at the way this whole situation has been handled. In A perfect world the motion would of been put before the staff of DM and put to a vote. I feel the reason it wasnt was because kathana has never liked offboards as well as a few other things and i know for a fact that this isnt the first time she's rubbed people the wrong way. Egwene resigned from the newbie board in a large part due to disagreements with kathana about how things should operate.

 

Kath, I know you do a difficult job but the way this was handled was wrong and you very well know it. I do not think you meant for this to spin out of control but the fact was it did and now we have to deal with it. I apoligize for laying this at your feet but since the last email with jason where i felt we had made a step in the right direction all my dealings with this issue have been with you and we seem to have digressed from the progress i felt was made with jason.

 

Now that thats over with i have one more point to make. As it has been stated the org offboards feel like home. The skins applied to these boards, Board names and such look and feel like the org they belong to. The wolfkin boards are truly a work of art that i credit to shelaria as she did our graphics work before she had to leave dm due to personal reasons. I believe this was one of the last websites she designed before she left and they truly are beautiful. Not a whole lot other than org work happens on these offboards but that does not mean they are not important. Each of my council and myself have a board to ourselves where we can brainstorm and store our idea's for the org. While these boards are open to the other council members so they can get input from each other each of the offices is a unique place. which we have made into our own private workspace and know where everything is at. The fledgeling guilds of the wolfkin are working on there boards and making them into homes currently as the guild idea is a new thing for the wolfkin and some are still getting used to it. We feel that this move would interrupt the major progress the org has made since early april late march. Wolfkin is once again a strong org and growing by the day. In taking on this job I promised i would represent my org with everything I posess. I am protecting them from a move they are not quite ready for. Though they are resiliant ive done my research since darksmoon, the original wolfkin org leader left, we have had a bumpy sometimes volitile road. I am trying to smooth those lumps left by time and i dont want to see the hard work put in by me and my staff go to waste.

 

That is really all i have to say right now ive poured it all out on the table. Take it or leave it the choice is yours to make.

 

Goldeneyes05

Wolfkin Org Leader

 

 

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Actually... I don't agree. Though others might see it as great reading. I think the Band needs to work on their problems with the Admins. Does that sound horrible? I hope not... and I apologize for it if it does.

 

As far as I can see "most" of the the staff you are talking about are just the Band. Unless I am missing the others???

 

Who are the other Staff members that were adamantly upset about this, that still are and that are not yet satisfied with the answers to their queistions?? Just checking...

 

And here I am in the middle of packing my house. *shakes head slowly*

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I'm sure you'll be able to make a full report after you've talked to him.  But if you want answers, you'll have to email Jason. I know Corki already has.

 

That goes for anyone, by the by, not just Org Leaders. If you feel very strongly one way or the other about the subject, email Jason. He'll be happy to talk to anyone regarding this.

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hmm..Correction Tay.   When I chose to leave the Band's Proboards earlier this year, and maintained my membership in the Band Org at DM, the then, XO, Horn, informed me I HAD to be registered at the offsite boards to be a member of the Org.

 

To earn promotion points you do have to be at the offsite boards.  The only promotion points that can be earned at DM, are 2 for roll call each month, and the posting of JoTS, and then only a percentage of any promotion can be earned by JoTS.  You can also occaisionally earn a point by participating in the lottery, beyond that I am unaware of any regular activities at DM that earn promotion points.  Hornsounder articles must be submitted on the Proboards, Album, Gig and Holiday Reviews must be done at the Proboards. Participation in the Redarm challenges, the Quotes board, the JoTS competitions, to be on Staff and recieve staff pay all requires activity on Proboards and NOT Dm.  And again, if a person joins the Band, and wants to participate and enjoy the fullness of the Org, the only way is to be on the offsite boards where all the activity and all the members are.

 

Tig has also explained he was focusing on his other Orgs.  It may be that he was referring to them more than the Band where he is active.  In fact he didn't mention a specific Org, but to offsite boards in general.  

 

lol and we both know that Manny is hostile about all of this.  I would dare to say that you are as well, this isn't exactly a constructive comment, "that's if what we're being told about two way dialogue is true of course.)"  Again I say, Jason and Corki are talking, Corki has said he doesn't want to leave DM...give them a chance to work towards a solution that allows the best for everyone.

 

Make no mistake about this..I love the Band and the people there.  I have given a lot of my heart and time to it in the past year.  I am concerned about losing any of it in the consolidation, there are some really special things that we do that makes us what we are.  We have a lot to give to the DM community that right now isn't even known about because it is hidden in the offsite board.  In the same way, Band members are missing out on a lot of wonderful things by being so isolated from DM.  In the long run, I believe this will be beneficial for everyone.  

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Okay, the Ogier have very little to say on this matter as we don't even use our offsite boards.  If you want them, by all means have them.  I'm happy with the boards on DM for us.  I would like a couple of new private boards for us when this is said and done though.  Now, in response to the others I would like to say that I can agree with both sides.  We do need to do more to improve activity at DM, and our private offsites can be very important to us.  Orgs like the Wolfkin and the Band have real need for their offsite boards simply because of the volume of posts, members, or projects they have going on at any one time.  The Ajahs usually have the same needs for their boards.  In addition to all the hard work that is put in to them, its a lot easier for some people to have a more private interaction with their org members.  Now, the only way I can see this working is by the Admins here allowing the offsites to be virtually copied and pasted here at DM.  I don't think thats a possibility, but I have been wrong before.  Maybe you guys have some better ideas then I come up with, and I can't wait to hear them.  

 

Well after everything is said and done, I can only hope that there will be no loss of leaders or members.  Thats my two cents...

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As far as I can see "most" of the the staff you are talking about are just the Band. Unless I am missing the others???

 

Hey that's what I said! And still I don't see anyone else besides the Wolfkin and the Band?

 

Just curious... who ele is actually opposed to this? Haven't heard any BT/Seanchan/Illum/SG/Kin people here? I remember the BT having an extensive offsite.

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If you haven't heard from the Kin people, it's because this isn't bothering us. We're not that big an organization, we avoid drama like the plague and our offsite boards are mostly backup, archives and record keeping. *shrugs* Since everything else would fit in here, why argue about who's hosting it?

 

Speaking as a staffer from the WT, too, it's still not bothering me. And as staff for the Illuminator's... STILL not bothering me.

 

I don't see this as anything but an attempt to create more unity within the Orgs and Divs and provide a place that meets the needs of the community. An attempt being argued about by those who believe that separate houses for their things makes them stronger as a community. I can't help but disagree with that, but I'm not getting into an argument over it.

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Wow, I’m finally caught up with all 14 *looks around* um i mean 15 pages.  Yes I’m the type of person who tries to be as informed as possible before taking a stance.  I do have a few concerns as to the change over, however I believe that my concerns are being addressed privately as I brought them up to Corki, since it involves the Band and I know he is having dialogue with Jason.

 

But as anyone who knows me will know, that won't stop me from putting my 2 cents worth in.

 

I agree with most of the concerns brought up, and I’m not very keen on the idea of the consolidation as it stands right now.  I am a business person so I respect the business aspect of DM and have no qualms with it in that respect.  But everyone needs to remember that this is a very unique business and many people are involved with vested interests, if not financially then with the amount of time each of us have dedicated to our individual cause and groups we belong with.  I appreciate Jason for Creating Dragonmount and allowing us to be a part of it and helping it grow into the community we have today.  For that I want to say Thank You.  But don't think I’m brown nosing, because as I said before each of us have a vested interest here and we deserve to be heard on matters that concern us.  For DM to continue to flourish Jason is going to need everyone's help and that means the criticisms as well as the compliments.  How else can we continue to grow and improve to become even better if people don't point out what’s wrong?  Every post here has a valid point and a good leader is one that can sate our concerns and is willing to take our opinions into consideration while deciding what is best for both the community and the business.

 

But enough of that,  I’m at the point where I’m going to wait and see what will happen with the trial orgs who are willing to test the waters for the rest of us.  I am skeptic as I mentioned before but I’m also open minded about it as long as the Band is able to keep some things that are unique to our Org.  In particular things that I, as have many others both past and present, have worked hard to create, However if we are unable to maintain those areas that are unique to the Band then most likely you are going to see a different side of me, at least those of you who haven’t been around in the Band’s off-site board and anyone who has been there knows, it won’t be pretty since I am extremely opinionated and rightfully don’t give a rats-you-know-what what anyone thinks of me for speaking my mind.   Also for the record, I am just speaking about the Band here, since I’m not as active in my other Orgs as I am there.

 

One thing I would like to see mentioned here (or somewhere that I can find) is what will and will not be allowed once the consolidation is completed.  I only just found out about the semi-rpg rule and I’ve been a member of DM for nearly 2 years.  I know this is a pretty open question, however I think an outline of the guidelines are necessary so everyone knows exactly what is allowed and expected with each sub domain.  Each org has discovered what works best for their individual needs, especially with their off boards, some of which would only be allowed on boards other than DM.  So I’m wondering what all would be permissible to carry over in the consolidation (and I know that it will depend on the individual group) and what will have to change.  To me the best way to do this is to just lay out the law and allow the  orgs pick it apart for themselves and present questions and concerns BEFORE the consolidation takes place—but I’m just one person.

 

Sorry for the long post, but RL is a bit hectic right now and I’m not sure when I will be able to revisit this thread.  I want to make sure I get everything out now before I miss the opportunity.

 

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hmm..Correction Tay.   When I chose to leave the Band's Proboards earlier this year, and maintained my membership in the Band Org at DM, the then, XO, Horn, informed me I HAD to be registered at the offsite boards to be a member of the Org.

 

Being registered there doesn't mean you have to be active there. You weren't told you had to be registered to be a member, you were told you had to be registered to earn promotion points... there's a difference. Anyone can be a member of the Band here at DM and participate on the boards if that's what they prefer.

 

To earn promotion points you do have to be at the offsite boards. Hornsounder articles must be submitted on the Proboards,

 

HS Articles can also be submitted at DM. Yes, it might be slower but NO you do not need to be at the off site to earn promotion points. Of course you'll get a fuller experience there but again, its not something we can force people to do.

 

lol and we both know that Manny is hostile about all of this.  I would dare to say that you are as well, this isn't exactly a constructive comment, "that's if what we're being told about two way dialogue is true of course.)"

 

We don't both know anything of the sort. If you go back and check, Manny stated quite clearly in his first post here that he thought this whole thing could work if it had been handled differently. Yes, like many of us, he has concerns about how this will happen and the impacts on the Org, but no, he hasn't been hostile. You can "dare to say" all you like, the fact of the matter is that you have no idea how I feel on this matter. My attitude to it has varied dramatically since it was first mentioned. As it stands now, I don't know myself how I feel, so there's no way anyone else does. My comment was not intended to be "constructive" it was meant to be sceptical. I'm also quite prepared to wait and see how the trials go with other Orgs before making any decisions. Being open minded is the only way for this to work, that doesn't mean shutting up and not stating concerns though.

 

Again I say, Jason and Corki are talking, Corki has said he doesn't want to leave DM...give them a chance to work towards a solution that allows the best for everyone.

 

Which has nothing whatsoever to do with the rest of us airing our opinions. Corki is the Org leader and will do what he feels is best for the Org. I'm sure Jason and he will cover what they feel to be the relevant points. But just as the Band is not the whole of DM, neither is Corki the whole of the Band. We have minds, thoughts and opinions of our own and every right to express them.

 

And as was just mentioned, I'd certainly be interested to hear what the notably absent Orgs think about this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Tay the conversation with Horn had nothing to do with promotion points.  I was told I had to be registered at the Proboards to keep my Org membership at DM and be a member of the Band. Period.  The last thing on my mind at that time was points.  Didn't enter into the conversation at all.  However, if you have to be registered to earn promotion points..thats saying that to participate as a member, be interactive and achieve ranks in the regiments, you have to be registered for the proboards. 

 

I have not seen a thread to submit Hornsounder articles.  If there is one, I missed it.

 

The hostility?  Let's agree to disagree on this point.

 

I have not told anyone to "shut up"  about thier concerns, I have said I am tired of the whining and non-constructive comments in relation to the move to the new boards, and expecting immediate fixes to everything they didn't like. I get to express my frustration and opinion as well.

 

The point I was trying to make and you have missed, is that many of the issues that Band members are fussed up about, Corki is talking to Jason about.  Giving them a chance to discuss them and Corki time to report back, gives an answer to us, and then a factual place to express the concerns from, instead of, for example, assuming that "god knows who"  would be modding something we don't even know will be an issue.

 

And look back a page or two, Kelly, the Org leader of the Ogier posted, stating that it isn't a problem to lose thier offsite boards, Lor posted that it isn't a problem for the Kin, which I also know as a member of the Kin Council, she also said it isn't a problem as a member of the White Tower Staff, and still not a problem as a member of the Illuminator's Guild staff.  And many members of the White Tower have participated in this discussion.  The Org's not heard from I think are the BT, the Seanchean, the Aiel, and SG.

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I am one of the Head Wise Ones on the Aiel and we are already talking about the move in a positive manner, as long as we have the boards we need here and can still use our offsites for archives, we are fine. I will point Tess this way!

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