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JenniferL

Lets talk about The Consolidation =)

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switching gears a tad bit, Kath I have a question...

 

the old DM boards are going to be closed down, will they still exist as an archive or be deleted?  What happens then to the info that didn't transfer? 

 

We're planning to archive them.  They will be closed to new posts, but still readable. The posts that didn't transfer will continue to be available.

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I don't think I said it won't work.. said just the opposite actually. Corki hasn't said it won't work either.. Except our site will not be transferred.. So that claim is out the door...

 

What is galling is the way that admins continually insist we MUST, WILL, HAVE NO CHOICE... but to move..  I don't take well to ultimatums and neither do a lot of others.. And the other way would be so much easier and less overbearing and actually decent and thoughtful...

 

Prove your new site can do what it claims.. Let its magnificence pull the offsites to DM.. If they do what they claim, the offsites will likely go poof on their own!

 

But that doesnt stroke ego's.. Doesnt allow for weight throwing... Too bad that was the prevailing attitude that has been displayed

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Prove your new site can do what it claims.. Let its magnificence pull the offsites to DM.. If they do what they claim, the offsites will likely go poof on their own!

 

 

Thats exactly what I asked about a few pages back... why that couldn't at least be tried first, possibly preventing some of the ruffled feathers we have here.

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and I think it was mat that said a couple orgs have volunteered to do just that.

 

But, again, I will say that with the attitudes, such as Manny is expressing and many others are holding..what kind of a chance will they give it?  Any little problem will be jumped on, critisized, and blown out of proportion, without the grace to work it out.  That's just as important with all of this...there has to be allowances to tweak it for this to work at all!  And, if folks are going to stand back and wait to have it "proven" to them..that won't work either...it will take willing and active participation, with out the attitude!

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Yeah, I don't know how the other heads find time to manage those offsite boards in addition to managing the Ajah boards here on DM.  That's one of many reasons I never opened any off site boards for the Gray Ajah.  So I completely understand how it would be hard for a newbie to keep up with mulitple boards.  Hehehe, sometimes I have a hard time keeping up with my DM orgs I'm involved in.  In fact, I feel kinda bad about my inactivity in the Illuminators Guild.

 

That is just one of many quotes I could pull up but one of the many reasons I have for being excited about moving over. I am an ajah head, I am Head Wise One, I am First Gardener to the Ogier, I am ajah head on the rp side. I spend a ton of time on offsite boards. On the Greens a huge part of my time is spent, doing avatars, usergroups, board changes, etc. It would be so much easier for me if I had one board to go to for all my admin or mod duties. Russ by the way I dislike those offsite boards, I have to try and remember to go to them and I am excited about the prospect of doing rp planning and ajah planning onsite instead of on the offsite boards. I have to tell you that I have been having a hard time rping and part of that is those boards and having to add those into everything else I do, when you have so much to do, it kind of takes the fun out of rping or posting. I am a staff member of the White Tower and something I know is that I choose to be a staff member, it's not something that is forever or something that isn't controlled by someone else. Yes I could step down at anytime but I know that I could also lose my postion at anytime. That's the way it is.

 

I have been here a very long time and believe me we have been through this before, in 2003 or 04 I believe we were housed on something called the Age of Legends board. All the Ajahs at that time were together, I don't even think the other orgs had offsite boards. One day we were told that with the new upgrades we would be moving to DM and have no offsite boards. I can tell you that did not go over well. We had two weeks I believe to move and then the boards were locked. The boards and all their posts eventually were deleted through human error and we lost everything. I can tell you people were really pissed off back then, we moved over and then DM crashed (mind you a much more antique DM) and we were allowed to have offsite boards. We weren't supposed to be affiliated with DM, all the ajah heads of that group knew that. We also knew that we could be yanked back to DM at anytime. Kath has always made it very clear to me that she dosen't want us to have offsite boards and she has been vocal about it in the WT Staff board, so I am suprised at the Org leaders not knowing this.

 

Really some of the posts I am seeing in here shock me, "your demands aren't met" what is that?? This site is run by Jason, he owns it, he pays for most of it and it's something he has let us use. Saying your demands sounds like you think your in charge. We can't do anything about this guys, yes we can leave a site that we love, oh yes that's a great thing to do. :P Something was said to me when we moved boards in 03 and everyone threw a hissyfit. This is pretty close to what was said, "The fact is that if you leave there will be people who will still join up, not knowing what has happened. The books are popular and people will come back or new people will join. Even if some of you leave others will stay and new people will join." As a staff leader you are replacable, yes that might hurt to hear that but being one I know that there are always people standing in the wings who would take my job if left. Maybe we need to deal with the reality here and stop making demands. We have been told, we have been given a large amount of notice and it is going to happen. So let's deal with it. Negative emotions, do nothing but upset the group and your emotions as org leaders or staff fuel your group. They have their own opinions and feelings but I can tell you if you are pissed and negative and take the view that it's not going to work, than many of them are going to believe that it's not going to work. Let's go into this with an open mind and try and make the best of it, because having been here since 1998 I can tell you making the best of it is all you can do at this point.

 

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Well, I just read the last nine pages of this debate/discussion and it seems that it all boils down to the following:

 

-The DM admins have given the Orgs a mandate that we must move our boards over to the new DM site and "consolidate"

-A lot of us members and certain org leaders as well are not very happy with the "dictatorial" decision made for us.

 

I've heard Jason referred to as "God" and what he says absolutely "has to happen". What those who disagree are saying is that the boards can be made on dm if you'd like, but if the Org gets decapitated, or we just get rolled over, most of us will NOT come back here. They're not denying that those boards can be made on here, they're saying those boards will be empty shells because there won't be many, if any, people left to partcipate. I'm not speaking for other orgs, but the Band will definitely not lay on its back and take this quietly. I honestly don't think it's worth losing 80% or more of an org just so you can get things your way.

 

Now, what Horn said earlier, saying that we'd like to see a trial or some sort of demonstration of such a large data transfer as well making the new sub domain work properly, is entirely reasonable and I think it will be possible since we do have a decent amount of time before we're expected to decide, Jan 1st.(I say decide, and not move, because it will come down to each person's own decision, whether or not the admins would like us to.)

 

I'm very open to the move as long as the two things already mentioned, lack of admin interference, and proper data transfer work. One of the problems is that with all the sub boards we have for the Band, we feel they might be lost along the way. The specialization we have within our Org is one of its best attributes and losing it would be like losing an arm or a leg; in short it would be ruinous.

 

I am fairly optimistic about the idea of moving over from proboards to a subdomain if the trials/demonstrations work well. I am quite willing to wait and see how things go, and honestly, I really want things to work out. Kathana, this is just a suggestion, but I think things might go a lot more smoothly if, instead of flouting the fact that the admins have decided this and it will happen, you simply showed those of us who are skeptical that it will work alright by demonstrating and thereby proving so with another group.

 

Again, I do want this to work. I even think there's a pretty good chance it will. But is it that much of a problem to simply allay our collective concern by proving that there is in fact nothing to worry about?

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why is everyone referring to "admin interference" as a reason not to move over?  Are you guys doing something illegal?  :o

 

 

 

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I do agree that people need to stop calling Jason, God.  I don't think his head could get any bigger.

 

*runs away*

 

;)

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I am fairly optimistic about the idea of moving over from proboards to a subdomain if the trials/demonstrations work well. I am quite willing to wait and see how things go, and honestly, I really want things to work out. Kathana, this is just a suggestion, but I think things might go a lot more smoothly if, instead of flouting the fact that the admins have decided this and it will happen, you simply showed those of us who are skeptical that it will work alright by demonstrating and thereby proving so with another group.

 

Again, I do want this to work. I even think there's a pretty good chance it will. But is it that much of a problem to simply allay our collective concern by proving that there is in fact nothing to worry about?

 

Well, that's what I've been trying to do. However, when the Org Leaders asked me what would happen if they refused to move their Orgs, I was honest with them.  Jason has asked us to move everything related to DM onto DM. Otherwise, it will not be considered part of DM anymore.  You've got time to decide what you want to do. I've tried to be as nice as I possibly can be about this, but those are the facts of the situation.  I'd really rather not have to replace anyone or restart any Orgs, but if that's the decision that's made, I'll accept it.

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I do agree that people need to stop calling Jason, God.  I don't think his head could get any bigger.

 

*runs away*

 

;)

 

Oh, I don't know. I thought calling him a force of nature was a pretty good description.

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makes sense Kathana. Glad to hear we're on the same page. Like I said, I'm pretty open to the new boards idea and am waiting eagerly to see things work out all right.

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makes sense Kathana. Glad to hear it. Like I said, I'm pretty open to the new boards idea and am waiting eagerly to see things work out all right.

 

I appreciate that. =)

 

As I've said before, we have people who are eagerly awaiting this move. I just had to tell another person, we can't start moving yet. I think once we get the ball rolling everyone will be satisfied with the change.

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instead of flouting the fact that the admins have decided this and it will happen,

 

(not to point you out precisely, but other share this sentiment and I felt the need to respond.

 

I don't see why you [all] are laying the blame on the admins. I don't think they are to blame. Jason said, so Jason is to blame. If the admins don't do their jobs, Jason can and probably will fire them. Guys, what I am saying is that it isn't fair to lay the blame at their feet when these are their marching orders. Consider that before implying blame.

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Err... how will finding the right person to blame help matters?

 

Well... to answer Seggie, no we dont' do anything illegal. Well, I'm not sure about US laws anyway. But we are sometimes smutty, spammy and altogether a mess with posts.

 

So if we're talking about general DM posting rules like, No SPAM, keep it PG13 and stuff like that there, our offsite boards are gonna have half its threads wiped out. So are these rules going to prevalent on our private boards or not?

 

And if so, is there a chance we can discuss this?

 

I think I've been thru enough changes in DM to know this, if ya don't like the change, just stay away for a while. Things will CONSISTENTLY change. Staff might lose their power, but I really don't get the power hunger anyway. It's so much work. Plus, I'm sure ya got the smae issues in ya org, with members not liking the edicts ya put in place too. I hated the age-of-legends boards. So I left DM for a while. Until the boards came back here. And so did I. It's a place of leisure. Not a job. *shrugs*

 

So yeah... space? PG13? messy posts? Whose jurisdiction? Ajah heads? Admin?

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I'm actually wondering if Jason (who I appreciate is probably a very busy person like so many of us) will deign to post here. Like Alys said, the order has come from him. Would it kill him to reply to some of these concerns? Then maybe Kathana will receive a lot less of the complaining directed at her.

 

I was against the move. But I have come to realise that regardless on my personal feelings, it is going to happen. I know there are many of you who have been at DM for years and years and are very excited about it, and I'm happy for you all. It would be like coming home to you, in a respect. For me and others like me, it's a very different sentiment. I joined DM just over 2 years ago, when the RP was separate to the orgs. And home to me became the WT Div offsite boards, and it still is, really. Like Russ said, we do still come to DM, that's where we do all our RPing, but to me, DM was a big scary place when I joined. There were so many people! I didn't know anyone, didn't know what I was doing. But I found that the smaller nature of the WT boards were a lot less intimidating.

 

Joining the Orgs and Divs back to the one place was a good thing. It was awful scary though - I didn't have a clue what the orgs were, what they did...I tried joining, but found the environment so much different. Not a bad thing, just different, and not what I was looking for at DM. Just like so many aren't looking for RP. It's an individual preference thing.

 

How does this justify us keeping our boards? Well it doesn't. Realistically, there is no difference exactly where our boards are, so long as we have them. But it is daunting, after having the independence of having complete control over our sites and boards, to contemplate handing it over. It's like giving your baby to a stranger, letting someone else decide what it's going to wear, what it's going to learn, what it's going to eat...(sorry I have a 10 month old so the analogy makes sense to me ;)). It's not to say that no one else could look after it like I could, but in essence, it's 'mine'.

 

This has gotten long winded, sorry. But it's hard also, for us to give up control. No, we don't do anything illegal on our boards, but does that mean we want admins reading over our shoulders? I guess it feels like working at a desk, with your boss constantly reading over your shoulder. It doesn't make the best working environment. But that being said, there's no reason to not let them see, it's just not a nice feeling. Same goes for things like making boards if we need them, changing ranks, user groups, etc. At the moment, it is something I can do in a second, whereas handing over control puts me in mind that I will have to petition someone to do it, and wait for them to approve the change and do it. It's a frustrating thought.

 

All this being said...I'm not arguing against the move. I might not like it, but I can see all the merits. I guess this is just something we all feel passionately about in some way or other, and having the idea thrust on us is naturally going to raise heckles, good idea or not. Staff may have known about it for some time (well some of you), but many of us members have not. My first thought was to hate the idea, and all the more so upon realising it was an order. An order that was going to result in people being fired unceremoniously if the disagreed with it that badly. We are all human, don't forget. We have emotions, and many people are upset by this! A little understanding goes a long way, as does a little empathy.

 

Wow...I'll shut up now :)

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People aren't going to be fired for disagreeing. Its the nature of humans to have different opinions. But we've been asked to do something by our boss, so we need to do it.

 

Jason's been traveling for his job a bit recently. I'll let him know this thread is up though and if he has time, I'm sure he'll stop by. Several people have sent him emails regarding the change, and I know they received responses.

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So yeah... space? PG13? messy posts? Whose jurisdiction? Ajah heads? Admin?

 

Whoops. Sorry, Skeech. It's almost midnight here. =)

 

Whatever boards you need, within reason, will be granted. The Blues will start out with three and we'll go from there.  I'm not sure what you mean by messy posts, but in the WT Org, I've always allowed the Ajah Heads to decide how much nonsense they were willing to put up from ya'll. Same with with the Org Leaders.

 

Keep in mind that for many people Dragonmount represents the Wheel of Time series. One of the reasons Tor and other vendors have been so willing to work with us over the years is that we do a good job of representing the series in a way they are comfortable with.

 

That said, if you find yourself on a private board and you're reasonably sure everyone is of age there...*shrugs* I couldn't possibly read every board and neither would I want to. As long as you're not posting porn and having cybersex while illegally trading files, I'm fine with most things.

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Err... how will finding the right person to blame help matters?

 

it will mean that you are not directing your rudeness at the admins who are following order and are the ones trying to help to ease the directive.

 

I know of no person who enjoys being grouched at for something that isn't their fault. It is like being blamed for wrecking your parent's car when you know without a doubt that it was your sibling.

 

Kath looks over shoulders, but mostly you don't know she is there unless you invite her or she suggests an idea that you can veto or agree with. *shrugs* You will mostly have control.

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*chuckles* Yeah, I know mommy well enough for the whole looking over my shoulder thing.

 

Another question I wanna know is... coz I'm not sure if it's the evil Nets over here or is it in general, will these extra boards caused slower loading...etc? I mean as in SURE our server can SUPPORT it, but while that means it won't go down much, I don't want to have to spend half a dozen hours waiting for one board to load.

 

Offsite boards are SO fast coz, obviously the loads just minimal, what with us Blues just have a board for Porn, another for illegal file trading and a third for Paet to do his stripteases and another for archiving everything. *shrugs* So yeah... will they be ALOT slower?

 

Just wondering.

 

And mommy, you should sleep. Soon. Works the crankiness away. *huggles*

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