WoT Season 2 - I WATCHED ALL THE EPISODES TOPIC

[trw1972]

On 10/10/2023 at 3:52 AM, Yamezt said:

Me too! 

 

I am surprised I still had my Dragonmount account LOL - decided to login to see what people think after binging of S2 (i waited till all episodes are up before I sub to prime).

 

S2 was a fun ride - I enjoyed more than S1. Though to be fair, I hated Eye of the World. I always thought eotw was an awful book. So the adaptation probably reasonated less with me. The ONLY reason i got through eye of the world was that I already bought the subsequent books and gritted my teeth through it.

 

Enjoyed book 2 onwards (and actually love the dreaded 7-11 books - no accounting my awful taste in books!)

 

I started a re-read last week and i think Eotw has a different feel to the rest of the series. It feels like YA to me.

 

Now that i know the other books are great i will power through but the first time i read the series i was a young adult and didnt mind (1992)

[Rhaze]

3 hours ago, trw1972 said:

 

I started a re-read last week and i think Eotw has a different feel to the rest of the series. It feels like YA to me.

 

Now that i know the other books are great i will power through but the first time i read the series i was a young adult and didnt mind (1992)

 Yeah, now that I am much older in life, I have said more than once, if I had started reading the books right now, I dont know if I would have made it through book 1. Fantasy was an entirely different thing back in 91 though, basically you had LOTR rip-offs and Book 1 fell into the same trap as so much more other fantasy did during that time period.

[Scarloc99]

11 hours ago, Rhaze said:

 Yeah, now that I am much older in life, I have said more than once, if I had started reading the books right now, I dont know if I would have made it through book 1. Fantasy was an entirely different thing back in 91 though, basically you had LOTR rip-offs and Book 1 fell into the same trap as so much more other fantasy did during that time period.

And this is why changes to the source material needed to be made, to keep the themes and tone consistent throughout

[trw1972]

3 hours ago, Scarloc99 said:

And this is why changes to the source material needed to be made, to keep the themes and tone consistent throughout

I just finished Eotw

One of the reader reactors complained bitterly about changes from source, and how it was illogical that rand could kill Turaks guards without training, yet in Eotw rand defeats aginor, ishamael, travels and kills a horde of trollocs and fades with no training.

 

But i am past that book now and excited to read the great hunt 🙂 

[Rhaze]

7 hours ago, Scarloc99 said:

And this is why changes to the source material needed to be made, to keep the themes and tone consistent throughout

you cant use the word consistent with the show. that is the last thing the show is.

[SinisterDeath]

Totally anecdotal, but the Father-In-Law just asked if I saw the Wheel of Time S2 finale; (as if I of all people haven't been following this...) And their opinion as a non-book reader and casual TV watcher?

 

"The finale was Amazing"

That's also coming from a guy from the GenX/Boomer Conservative demographic that "hates all that woke shit". 

[Elder_Haman]

53 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

Totally anecdotal, but the Father-In-Law just asked if I saw the Wheel of Time S2 finale; (as if I of all people haven't been following this...) And their opinion as a non-book reader and casual TV watcher?

 

"The finale was Amazing"

That's also coming from a guy from the GenX/Boomer Conservative demographic that "hates all that woke shit". 

For all the hand wringing and rending of garments, the show is not terribly “woke”. It’s got a diverse cast with LGB characters, but that’s not the same thing. 

[Scarloc99]

2 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

Totally anecdotal, but the Father-In-Law just asked if I saw the Wheel of Time S2 finale; (as if I of all people haven't been following this...) And their opinion as a non-book reader and casual TV watcher?

 

"The finale was Amazing"

That's also coming from a guy from the GenX/Boomer Conservative demographic that "hates all that woke shit". 

Every non book reader I know has much the same opinion, which I think shows that the show is working at doing what it needs to do.

[SinisterDeath]

58 minutes ago, Scarloc99 said:

Every non book reader I know has much the same opinion, which I think shows that the show is working at doing what it needs to do.

Holy shit.

 

The FIL now wants to borrow the first book. 

 

 

 

[Scarloc99]

7 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

Holy shit.

 

The FIL now wants to borrow the first book. 

 

 

 

Make sure you explain it gets better lol. 

[SinisterDeath]

15 hours ago, Scarloc99 said:

Make sure you explain it gets better lol. 

I post the Panic gif because
1) I need to complete my collection

2) I never expected to catch one in the wild.

[DaddyFinn]

22 hours ago, Scarloc99 said:

Make sure you explain it gets better lol. 

I don't like that long-time book fans warn new readers about the "slog"(which not every book fan, myself included, even consider to be an issue) and first few books being different from the rest. Allow them to make up their own mind as we did. 

 

I've seen a bunch of people in twitter say they couldn't finish the books due to several reasons and consider the show to be a better/more easily digestable version of them so far. I agree with many of their complaints regarding pacing, plotlines, writing etc.

Edited October 16, 2023 by DaddyFinn

[trw1972]

28 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

I don't like that long-time book fans warn new readers about the "slog"(which not every book fan, myself included, even consider to be an issue) and first few books being different from the rest. Allow them to make up their own mind as we did. 

 

I've seen a bunch of people in twitter say they couldn't finish the books due to several reasons and consider the show to be a better/more easily digestable version of them so far. I agree with many of their complaints regarding pacing, plotlines, writing etc.

 

I badgered friends to try the show and two decided to read the books.

One just decided reading fantasy wasnt his thing 

The other is now on book 5 and enjoying it, but when reading Eotw commented it was 'very 90's' and felt like Lotr.

[Scarloc99]

1 hour ago, trw1972 said:

 

I badgered friends to try the show and two decided to read the books.

One just decided reading fantasy wasnt his thing 

The other is now on book 5 and enjoying it, but when reading Eotw commented it was 'very 90's' and felt like Lotr.

I didn't badger anyone, but one friend did ask to borrow my books, I leant her books 1-4 to get started, she got through them mainly because I had raved about book 4, I am lending her 5-8 next but she is going to take a break and read other books first. There is some she liked, but much she found jarring and dated. But, like me she is a completionist and so is determined to finish the series. 

[notpropaganda73]

On 10/14/2023 at 11:43 PM, Elder_Haman said:

For all the hand wringing and rending of garments, the show is not terribly “woke”. It’s got a diverse cast with LGB characters, but that’s not the same thing. 

 

Honestly, agreed. I think the woke label came from a certain corner of the internet who were angry at some of the casting, (god I remember being on here before S1 aired and some poster kept going on about Egwene and how the Two Rivers would be all white, it was horrible), people way too precious about the books and obviously seeing enemies from all sides when it came to changes made, and Rafe's own worldview and comments as well. 

 

I think for people who aren't surrounded by all that, who weren't following the build up to the show religiously and the comments made by the creators of the show, aren't close to the changes that have been made etc., the show in and of itself doesn't really espouse anything too "woke". 

 

I think it's probably an interesting contrast, where *some* of the folks who were upset about the changes think it has to do with being "woke", whereas people completely fresh to the show probably just think "well that's the world of this show" and don't attribute any malice to Mat's background being what it is in the show, or think "men are being torn down" because Lan asked Moiraine to heat up the bath (I remember this being posted on here in S1 as a criticism haha)

[Mailman]

Something I wanted to recheck people's opinion on now that we have had the last couple of episodes is Liandrin's capture and transport of the 3 to Falme.

 

Now we are aware that tying of shields is not a skill current channelers possess and Egwene's power level being enough to at least temporarily hold Ishy at bay it drastically damages the whole passage.

 

1) Liandrin now has to maintain 3 shields at all times from the tower to Falme.

2) Egwene not long after is able to keep at bay Ishmael for a considerable time, Considering Logain required 2 or 3 strong Aes Sedai (including Liandrin)  to keep him shielded and I would assume he is not as strong as Ishmael that sets the bar for Liandrin to solo shield her as highly unlikely.

3) Now that we know tying of shields is not possible why did the Seachan not take over the shields when Liandrin was entering the waygate as I cannot see how they would have thought the shields would have remained once she entered the waygate.

 

Just seems to make the entire scenario completely implausible.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Mailman

[HeavyHalfMoonBlade]

25 minutes ago, Mailman said:

Something I wanted to recheck people's opinion on now that we have had the last couple of episodes is Liandrin's capture and transport of the 3 to Falme.

 

Now we are aware that tying of shields is not a skill current channelers possess and Egwene's power level being enough to at least temporarily hold Ishy at bay it drastically damages the whole passage.

 

1) Liandrin now has to maintain 3 shields at all times from the tower to Falme.

2) Egwene not long after is able to keep at bay Ishmael for a considerable time, Considering Logain required 2 or 3 strong Aes Sedai (including Liandrin)  to keep him shielded and I would assume he is not as strong as Ishmael that sets the bar for Liandrin to solo shield her as highly unlikely.

3) Now that we know tying of shields is not possible why did the Seachan not take over the shields when Liandrin was entering the waygate as I cannot see how they would have thought the shields would have remained once she entered the waygate.

 

Just seems to make the entire scenario completely implausible.

I think the show showed that they were unconscious at every point we saw them. After being pushed into a wall^TM by a flow of air. Except for Nynaeve who is blocked. And was presumably pushed into a wall^TM again after her chat with Liandrin.

[Elder_Haman]

41 minutes ago, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

I think the show showed that they were unconscious at every point we saw them. After being pushed into a wall^TM by a flow of air. Except for Nynaeve who is blocked. And was presumably pushed into a wall^TM again after her chat with Liandrin.

Also don’t discount the possibility of Forkroot tea. Though it hasn’t yet been introduced in the show, Liandrin could have employed it to keep everyone from being able to channel. 
 

If that’s the explanation though, I wish they’d spelled it out. Would have been easy enough to do during Liandrin’s chat with Nyn in the ways. 

[Windigo]

18 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

Also don’t discount the possibility of Forkroot tea. Though it hasn’t yet been introduced in the show, Liandrin could have employed it to keep everyone from being able to channel. 
 

If that’s the explanation though, I wish they’d spelled it out. Would have been easy enough to do during Liandrin’s chat with Nyn in the ways. 

They are unexperienced, it could also be a make you sleep tea.
Holding 3 shields while they are unconscious would not be that difficult. Being a red that would possibly be something she is more skilled at, or at least has had more practice doing. 

[king of nowhere]

1 hour ago, Mailman said:

Something I wanted to recheck people's opinion on now that we have had the last couple of episodes is Liandrin's capture and transport of the 3 to Falme.

 

Now we are aware that tying of shields is not a skill current channelers possess and Egwene's power level being enough to at least temporarily hold Ishy at bay it drastically damages the whole passage.

 

1) Liandrin now has to maintain 3 shields at all times from the tower to Falme.

2) Egwene not long after is able to keep at bay Ishmael for a considerable time, Considering Logain required 2 or 3 strong Aes Sedai (including Liandrin)  to keep him shielded and I would assume he is not as strong as Ishmael that sets the bar for Liandrin to solo shield her as highly unlikely.

3) Now that we know tying of shields is not possible why did the Seachan not take over the shields when Liandrin was entering the waygate as I cannot see how they would have thought the shields would have remained once she entered the waygate.

 

Just seems to make the entire scenario completely implausible.

yes, i noticed that.

one possibility is that the girls were unconscious until they entered the ways, and in the ways they could not channel to avoid drawing machin shin. but what prevented them from breaking free as soon as they got out?

at least in the books, while everyone was screaming "she's obviously black!!!!" at the pages, she was still officially a regular aes sedai, with actual power to command novices, and she didn't outwardly drop her cover until the end.

plot hole.

Edited October 16, 2023 by king of nowhere

[Spiritweaver1]

Well having finished S2 and having started a rewrite I will proffer my comments as they bubble up through the haze that my mind is becoming.

 

First and foremost I am very much looking forward to S3.  I feel so much better than I did after S1 when I wasn't sure I was going to bother.  In my view this isn't exactly an adaptation or a based on but a reasonably successful middle ground.  I love the books and being a fast reader and retired in Seattle I can power through the series in a couple of months.  

 

As I have said, mostly during S1, the heavy rewrite and condensed story time makes it easy to leave apparent plot holes or unexplained things many of which have been pointed out before.  I do hate the magic resurrections such as Lanfear's.  Jordan handled this much better with the new body approach.  Another one that grates me is Min being wrong on the vision of Matt stabbing Rand with the Dagger.  Unlike her symbolic visions that was very specific.   How is she going to get her credibility back?   

 

Also Rafe seems to like the fake out to rile up us book lovers.  It isn't just deaths.  A possible one is that with Ishy's memory implant and his blowing the horn there is apparently no need for the Finnfolk.  Yet we don't know for sure that he has all his battle skills and perhaps we will see him make the bargains.  I sure hope so.

 

For those who think Logan is going to teach Rand forget it.  We will be seeing Asmodean or one of the other male Forsaken do that bit.  It is dramatically much more interesting to have to clasp the snake to your breast and deal with all that entails.   Speaking of teaching Rand the way he dispatched Turok made much more sense than pretending he can defeat someone with a blade.

 

Combining characters like Uno and Gaidal Cain and Hurin and Elyas  make sense we likely will see more of that.  It works for me so far.  

 

I felt the dragon was a bit over the top.  I much preferred the way Jordan played it in the book.  Eggs was a little too strong for a decent plot line.  It would have been better to have Moraine link with her and Elayne and hold defensive weaves or have Nynaeve  as part of the effort.  After having her be super girl on several occasions she is regressing into incompetence.  Really?

 

Finally the way things are going after this effort is complete we can hope for a more faithful AI generated effort.  It could be as long as it needs to be and as long as somebody is supervising to cut some sloggy bits it could be awesome.  I really would like to see Randland brought to life.  However until that day this show will fill the gap nicely.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bringbackthomsmoustache]

11 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

13 hours ago, Mailman said:

Something I wanted to recheck people's opinion on now that we have had the last couple of episodes is Liandrin's capture and transport of the 3 to Falme.

 

Now we are aware that tying of shields is not a skill current channelers possess and Egwene's power level being enough to at least temporarily hold Ishy at bay it drastically damages the whole passage.

 

1) Liandrin now has to maintain 3 shields at all times from the tower to Falme.

2) Egwene not long after is able to keep at bay Ishmael for a considerable time, Considering Logain required 2 or 3 strong Aes Sedai (including Liandrin)  to keep him shielded and I would assume he is not as strong as Ishmael that sets the bar for Liandrin to solo shield her as highly unlikely.

3) Now that we know tying of shields is not possible why did the Seachan not take over the shields when Liandrin was entering the waygate as I cannot see how they would have thought the shields would have remained once she entered the waygate.

 

Just seems to make the entire scenario completely implausible.

Expand  

yes, i noticed that.

one possibility is that the girls were unconscious until they entered the ways, and in the ways they could not channel to avoid drawing machin shin. but what prevented them from breaking free as soon as they got out?

at least in the books, while everyone was screaming "she's obviously black!!!!" at the pages, she was still officially a regular aes sedai, with actual power to command novices, and she didn't outwardly drop her cover until the end.

plot hole.

Alternatively the red's do know how to tie off weaves and keep it is an Ajah secret (in line with book lore about the Ajah's having their own secret weaves).

[Mailman]

12 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

Also don’t discount the possibility of Forkroot tea. Though it hasn’t yet been introduced in the show, Liandrin could have employed it to keep everyone from being able to channel. 
 

If that’s the explanation though, I wish they’d spelled it out. Would have been easy enough to do during Liandrin’s chat with Nyn in the ways. 

Forkroot does not exist in the show until it is introduced it has no value.

11 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

yes, i noticed that.

one possibility is that the girls were unconscious until they entered the ways, and in the ways they could not channel to avoid drawing machin shin. but what prevented them from breaking free as soon as they got out?

at least in the books, while everyone was screaming "she's obviously black!!!!" at the pages, she was still officially a regular aes sedai, with actual power to command novices, and she didn't outwardly drop her cover until the end.

plot hole.

But Liandrin would be constantly channeling anyway so if it draws the black wind then it is already doing so.

13 hours ago, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

I think the show showed that they were unconscious at every point we saw them. After being pushed into a wall^TM by a flow of air. Except for Nynaeve who is blocked. And was presumably pushed into a wall^TM again after her chat with Liandrin.

There is no proof of that the one scene in the ways shows an awake Nynaeve and Liandrin and thats it. Then them awake when they leave the ways. It is nothing but conjecture that she knocked Nynaeve out again either.

 

None of this explains the Seachan also not taking control of the shields once they are out of the ways.

[Mailman]

8 minutes ago, bringbackthomsmoustache said:

Alternatively the red's do know how to tie off weaves and keep it is an Ajah secret (in line with book lore about the Ajah's having their own secret weaves).

Ajahs did not have secret weaves in the books. Some sisters had small tricks or talents usually to do with wilders early contact with the source. 

[bringbackthomsmoustache]

Just now, Mailman said:

Ajahs did not have secret weaves in the books. Some sisters had small tricks or talents usually to do with wilders early contact with the source. 

Not so.  In New Spring where we see Moiraine inducted into the blue she is then taught their secrets.