WoT Season 2 - I WATCHED ALL THE EPISODES TOPIC

[Scarloc99]

2 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

He got better book by book. The story is well thought out from beginning to end. I'm very interested to see how directly it will be adapted. It's both simple and very high fantasy.

I mean it's Dragons, in a proper Dragonlance, they can talk style rather then Game of Thrones so that will always go down well. 

If i am honest I will be watching it, my wife loved the books and I did see the core of the good well thought through story, I think his writing style just put me off, I really really dislike Brandon Sandersons books (I know, how dare I) mainly because of his style of writing. I do hope it comes off well and is a good show for those who do love the books. 

 

Now Dragonlance, that is a series I would love to see on TV, I wonder if it is more likely with the success of the DnD movie. 

[Yamezt]

38 minutes ago, Scarloc99 said:

Now Dragonlance, that is a series I would love to see on TV, I wonder if it is more likely with the success of the DnD movie. 

Dragon's of Autumn Twilight was my first fantasy novel. I sort of recall an animation adaptation was done. Mustn't been too memorable cuz I don't remember much about the animation other than it exist.

 

I thought the recent DnD movie didn't do well in the box office  (unless things has since turned around). Though BG3 has been amazing and may have helped generate interest in the DnD movie

[SinisterDeath]

3 hours ago, Yamezt said:

 

I thought the recent DnD movie didn't do well in the box office  (unless things has since turned around). Though BG3 has been amazing and may have helped generate interest in the DnD movie

It had a ~$150m budget.

Grossed ~$93m in the domestic market

And ~$208m worldwide. 

So it flopped domestically but not world wide. It may have had a ~$59m profit, which is "okay" depending on who you talk to. 

 

Something to remember.

It was up against.

John Wick 4.

Creed 3

Shazam! Fury of the Gods

 

Plus a couple of "Religious" movies that like to book out theaters to bloat their numbers. 

 

D&D briefly knocked John Wick out of the #1 spot for a day in box office numbers, but as we know John Wick came out ahead in the long run. 

 

Oh, and it released right in the middle of the OGL scandal when half the D&D fans online were boycotting everything D&D. 

[Guire]

1 hour ago, SinisterDeath said:

It had a ~$150m budget.

Grossed ~$93m in the domestic market

And ~$208m worldwide. 

So it flopped domestically but not world wide. It may have had a ~$59m profit, which is "okay" depending on who you talk to. 

 

Something to remember.

It was up against.

John Wick 4.

Creed 3

Shazam! Fury of the Gods

 

Plus a couple of "Religious" movies that like to book out theaters to bloat their numbers. 

 

D&D briefly knocked John Wick out of the #1 spot for a day in box office numbers, but as we know John Wick came out ahead in the long run. 

 

Oh, and it released right in the middle of the OGL scandal when half the D&D fans online were boycotting everything D&D. 

If marketing is not included in that budget it was not really a financial success.  I agree with your assessment it caught a perfect storm of environment to fail.  Too bad.  Fun movie.  I like fun popcorn entertainment.  Unless it is WoT.  Then it feels like my kids are being pepper sprayed.

[SinisterDeath]

26 minutes ago, Guire said:

If marketing is not included in that budget it was not really a financial success.  I agree with your assessment it caught a perfect storm of environment to fail.  Too bad.  Fun movie.  I like fun popcorn entertainment.  Unless it is WoT.  Then it feels like my kids are being pepper sprayed.

Found this article that said movies need to make 2.5x budget to be profitable. 

 

By all rights that movie wasn't bad. (I'd rather watch another D&D movie then another Fast Movie...)

Hopefully the money they receive from streaming is calculated into it's total earnings in some capacity when discussing future sequels...

[EmreY]

Having binged S2 E4-8 for the third time (and figured out a few things I missed before), I started watching the Youtube reactions.

 

It seems that people who've read all the books before vary between LIVID HATE and quite liking it.  Non-book-readers are quite positive, even gushing, as well as rather intelligent, eg:

 

 

My own favourite reactors remain Everyday Negroes, though I think Carinna will hate one rather important character in later episodes 😉  (Go to 45:50)

 

 

and of course Laura Reactions not the least because she drops her h's and says "Râând" so nicely. 🙂

 

 

 

Edited October 12, 2023 by EmreY

[movieguru]

I had been very disappointed at some of the major differences between the book and the show in season 1. Especially as concerns Perrin and Mat. I thought a major plotline in the books was Perrins role as apprentice to the blacksmith. And his development from there. He had a strong figure in the blacksmith to try to emulate. And being the town's blacksmith at such a young age was unrealistic. And his marriage and subsequent accidental killing of his wife was totally unnecessary. His relationship in the books(spoiler) to a hunter of the horn will have to progress on a much different path or be another unrealistic plotline. That he hadn't been in a serious relationship to that point seemed a much more realistic path for his character. Mat's abusive father in the TV show casts a different tone about the village than the books ever get to. And exactly how does that advance his character? Another plotline totally unnecessary and totally at divergence with the book. 

By season 2 I had reconciled myself to those and other differences that made the series less enjoyable than the books. And was enjoying the second season much more. Then came episode 8. There were more major deviances from the book in this one episode than in the whole series to that point. Beside the fact that the "battles" were on a significantly smaller scale than in the books. 10,000 Children of the Light die on the plains near Falme in the book. Here we have fights between dozens. And the Heroes of the horn? They enter into a fight with maybe thirty Seanchen. I know extras and CGI are expensive but a little would have gone a long way in making this far grander. And Rand fighting Ishamel on top of a tower when he was supposed to fight the Dark One in the skies over Falme for all to see? Why? That was the whole point of that storyline. Disappointing to say the least. But I still am looking forward to season 3.

[Rhaze]

 Once again, I enjoyed season 2 and have re-watched it and will re-watch it again. I never re-watched season 1 and will never re-watch season 1. Even enjoying it, I definitely have complaints and they definitely have room for a lot of improvement. What I dont like, both in season 1 and 2, is that they add story like Moiraine's shield, and then they neglect other arcs like Ingtar's redemption. I think Ingtar's redemption is a huge part of the books. How far is too far gone, can a dark friend be redeemed? It also gives us hope when we find out about Verin. I get they needed to do something with Moiraine, but having Rand cross paths with Ingtar and Ingtar confessing with the Dragon saying "I think just wanting to is enough" and the peace that comes over Ingtar as the Jesus version of Rand washed his sins away.

 

 It was still good, just not great. On one of the reaction videos, someone made a good point about books like WoT compared to books like ASoIaF. WoT has a complicated and consistent magic system with hard set rules that can be hard for a tv show to not screw up. Where as, books like ASoIaF have magic that no one knows the rules, not even those doing the magic. It is a lot easier to use magic as a plot device when you have no idea what is possible.

[EmreY]

4 hours ago, Rhaze said:

I think Ingtar's redemption is a huge part of the books. How far is too far gone, can a dark friend be redeemed?

 

I have been thinking about this too, and wondering if someone else will take his place.  Liandrin would be fun. 😮 

[Finnssss22]

First off, the characters didn't start to really develop their individual arcs till late book 3 and mainly book 4.

The show is still in a position to do that so that shouldn't be a valid complaint at this point.

That said, there were steps and/or hooks to set up those arcs laid throughout the first 3 books that the show hasn't done a very good job of for all of the characters Even having to kind of brute force some of them in (Perrin for example). This is for sure a valid complaint.

 

What shouldn't be a complaint is the underlying plot that they have stayed true to the books with.

Book 1 at it's heart was Ishamael manipulating events to get Rand to the Eye. Season 1 was exactly the same but the difference is the show, while it hid this as well, was actually more obvious about it than in the Book.

We were only able to piece it together through reveals in later books from rare Forsaken PoV's and discovery that Ishy used Farstrider to deliver the message about the Eye at that Stedding to point Moiraine and co at the Eye.

The same was done in the show only this time Ishy delivered the same message through Siuan's dream instead.

 

Books 2 and 3 was Ishy screwing with Rand through his friends trying to put cracks in Rand hoping to break him. Now granted the show ramped this up but they were also firing 2 books worth of cracks at Rand and Ishamael was a hell of a lot less insane by this point than he was in the books at the end of book 3.

They also had Lanfear drop a big ole wrench in the works by moving the timeline up of Ishy's plans up so Ishy doesn't turn or break him and Lanfear gets Rand to herself.

Should be obvious at this point that Ishamael's motives are to break or turn Rand. This was the case right up until the end of book 12.

Most think Lanfear's motives are because she loves Rand and sure that is part of it but mostly she is in love with the idea that Rand is her only chance of possibly defeating the Dark One himself and finally getting her hands on all that power she uncorked in the first place. This was always her true motive in the books, she loved power over anything or anyone else period.

 

The show needs to do better on the individual character arcs without losing the why of the underlying forces acting against them.

 

Season 1 was a mess, it's hard to say it wasn't. I didn't think it was horrible but it wasn't good imo either. I liked season 1 but it was a very luke warm like.

Season 2 was much better pretty much across the board, I definitely liked and enjoyed it a lot more than S1. It was good and at times excellent imo.

Do they need to do better though? Absolutely.

 

Season 3 will straight up make or break this show period. I know it and I think most people know it. Let's hope they nail it.

[Gothic Flame]

21 hours ago, Scarloc99 said:

Now Dragonlance, that is a series I would love to see on TV, I wonder if it is more likely with the success of the DnD movie. 

If it's given the DnD movie treatment, I'm all for it. 

If it's given the Wheel of Time treatment, then hell no!

[king of nowhere]

17 hours ago, movieguru said:

 And being the town's blacksmith at such a young age was unrealistic.

 

people keep throwing around that "unrealistic" word when they don't like something.

if we use our own past as a comparison, that's perfectly realistic. perhaps he was the apprentice, then the blacksmith died of a sudden disease leaving him as the sole blacksmith. happened all the time.

what's unrealistic is girls in their late teens being unmarried. egwene not having a half dozen brothers and sisters.

except wot is not our past, so we can't use that as a comparison anyway.

9 hours ago, Rhaze said:

 I think Ingtar's redemption is a huge part of the books. How far is too far gone, can a dark friend be redeemed?

i disagree. the thing is, that plot never went anywhere. we never see any other darkfriend seeking redemption in the books. no, that one does not count, she was never a dedicated darkfriend who had a change of heart, she always wanted to undermine them.

sure, jesus rand was a nice moment, but ultimately that subplot could be excised from the books without any issue.

 

Quote

 It was still good, just not great. On one of the reaction videos, someone made a good point about books like WoT compared to books like ASoIaF. WoT has a complicated and consistent magic system with hard set rules that can be hard for a tv show to not screw up. Where as, books like ASoIaF have magic that no one knows the rules, not even those doing the magic. It is a lot easier to use magic as a plot device when you have no idea what is possible.

it's best discussed as sanderson's first law: the ability of an author to solve conflicts with magic is directly proportional to how much the public understands said magic.

in a soft magic system, i.e. one where there are no rules, you can always use magic to complicate life for the characters, becase that creates tension. but if you use it to solve problems, it just comes out of nowhere. it's a deus ex machina. the public loses tension, because they know the problem will be handwaved with someone flicking their fingers and saying "hey, it's magic!".

in the lord of the rings magic has no defined rules, and the protagonists are all regular people - frodo, aragorn - that have to find mundane ways to solve magical problems.

in a hard magic system, magic has hard rules. the public understands them, and the author can use them to solve problems in clever ways, just like the gadgets in a james bond movie. magic is just another tool, that can be used entertainingly.

in the mistborn saga, allomancers can put up complex magical fighting that are entertaining because their moves follow their basic principles.

of course, if you have a hard magic system, you can't just make up stuff as the plot demands.

 

I also disagree that it's easier to use soft magic as a plot device. sure, it's easier to use it to create problems. i suppose one could say it's also easy to use it to solve the plot, but it's extremely unsatisfying. one major criticism of the sword of truth saga is that the plot would pile bigger and bigger problems upon the protagonist, only for him to just suddenly magic it all away in the last ten pages. and then forgetting how he did it. why would a reader get invested in the plot, if it's just going to be magicked away with no discernible logic?

 

unfortunately, hollywood does not seem to value internal consistency too much.

[Guire]

3 hours ago, Finnssss22 said:

First off, the characters didn't start to really develop their individual arcs till late book 3 and mainly book 4.

The show is still in a position to do that so that shouldn't be a valid complaint at this point.

That said, there were steps and/or hooks to set up those arcs laid throughout the first 3 books that the show hasn't done a very good job of for all of the characters Even having to kind of brute force some of them in (Perrin for example). This is for sure a valid complaint.

 

What shouldn't be a complaint is the underlying plot that they have stayed true to the books with.

Book 1 at it's heart was Ishamael manipulating events to get Rand to the Eye. Season 1 was exactly the same but the difference is the show, while it hid this as well, was actually more obvious about it than in the Book.

We were only able to piece it together through reveals in later books from rare Forsaken PoV's and discovery that Ishy used Farstrider to deliver the message about the Eye at that Stedding to point Moiraine and co at the Eye.

The same was done in the show only this time Ishy delivered the same message through Siuan's dream instead.

 

Books 2 and 3 was Ishy screwing with Rand through his friends trying to put cracks in Rand hoping to break him. Now granted the show ramped this up but they were also firing 2 books worth of cracks at Rand and Ishamael was a hell of a lot less insane by this point than he was in the books at the end of book 3.

They also had Lanfear drop a big ole wrench in the works by moving the timeline up of Ishy's plans up so Ishy doesn't turn or break him and Lanfear gets Rand to herself.

Should be obvious at this point that Ishamael's motives are to break or turn Rand. This was the case right up until the end of book 12.

Most think Lanfear's motives are because she loves Rand and sure that is part of it but mostly she is in love with the idea that Rand is her only chance of possibly defeating the Dark One himself and finally getting her hands on all that power she uncorked in the first place. This was always her true motive in the books, she loved power over anything or anyone else period.

 

The show needs to do better on the individual character arcs without losing the why of the underlying forces acting against them.

 

Season 1 was a mess, it's hard to say it wasn't. I didn't think it was horrible but it wasn't good imo either. I liked season 1 but it was a very luke warm like.

Season 2 was much better pretty much across the board, I definitely liked and enjoyed it a lot more than S1. It was good and at times excellent imo.

Do they need to do better though? Absolutely.

 

Season 3 will straight up make or break this show period. I know it and I think most people know it. Let's hope they nail it.

I agree with most of this.  It is hard for me to forget characters later development and place them at a point in time in books.  I dont think we are going to see any change from Amazon and showrunners approach.  Time constraint and centering Moraine has created a situation where telling a great version of this story will get harder and harder. It will be fine to good single watch TV.  A segment of audience that really loves certain aspects of way show is made will love it.  But it isnt going to rise to great TV.  Besides some great character work and acting the story flaws get worse the more you watch it. The highs show how good it could have been but Amazon and writers cant get out of their own way. 

[Guire]

11 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

people keep throwing around that "unrealistic" word when they don't like something.

if we use our own past as a comparison, that's perfectly realistic. perhaps he was the apprentice, then the blacksmith died of a sudden disease leaving him as the sole blacksmith. happened all the time.

what's unrealistic is girls in their late teens being unmarried. egwene not having a half dozen brothers and sisters.

except wot is not our past, so we can't use that as a comparison anyway.

i disagree. the thing is, that plot never went anywhere. we never see any other darkfriend seeking redemption in the books. no, that one does not count, she was never a dedicated darkfriend who had a change of heart, she always wanted to undermine them.

sure, jesus rand was a nice moment, but ultimately that subplot could be excised from the books without any issue.

 

it's best discussed as sanderson's first law: the ability of an author to solve conflicts with magic is directly proportional to how much the public understands said magic.

in a soft magic system, i.e. one where there are no rules, you can always use magic to complicate life for the characters, becase that creates tension. but if you use it to solve problems, it just comes out of nowhere. it's a deus ex machina. the public loses tension, because they know the problem will be handwaved with someone flicking their fingers and saying "hey, it's magic!".

in the lord of the rings magic has no defined rules, and the protagonists are all regular people - frodo, aragorn - that have to find mundane ways to solve magical problems.

in a hard magic system, magic has hard rules. the public understands them, and the author can use them to solve problems in clever ways, just like the gadgets in a james bond movie. magic is just another tool, that can be used entertainingly.

in the mistborn saga, allomancers can put up complex magical fighting that are entertaining because their moves follow their basic principles.

of course, if you have a hard magic system, you can't just make up stuff as the plot demands.

 

I also disagree that it's easier to use soft magic as a plot device. sure, it's easier to use it to create problems. i suppose one could say it's also easy to use it to solve the plot, but it's extremely unsatisfying. one major criticism of the sword of truth saga is that the plot would pile bigger and bigger problems upon the protagonist, only for him to just suddenly magic it all away in the last ten pages. and then forgetting how he did it. why would a reader get invested in the plot, if it's just going to be magicked away with no discernible logic?

 

unfortunately, hollywood does not seem to value internal consistency too much.

In WoT show Perrin is not blacksmith he is an apprentice or assistant.  Layla is blacksmith. Age is irrelevent.  A teenager could be a working blacksmith with proper background.

 

I think Ingtar was important to Rand's character growth.  He saw how easy good intentions could lead to wrong behavior.  That the world was going to be more complex and difficult in resisting the temptation of the dark one. It was also just a great scene foreshadowing the latter big reveal.  He was not absolutely needed however.  I think show really wasted time even showing Ingtar considering his end.  

[Scarloc99]

34 minutes ago, Guire said:

I agree with most of this.  It is hard for me to forget characters later development and place them at a point in time in books.  I dont think we are going to see any change from Amazon and showrunners approach.  Time constraint and centering Moraine has created a situation where telling a great version of this story will get harder and harder. It will be fine to good single watch TV.  A segment of audience that really loves certain aspects of way show is made will love it.  But it isnt going to rise to great TV.  Besides some great character work and acting the story flaws get worse the more you watch it. The highs show how good it could have been but Amazon and writers cant get out of their own way. 

Moiraine is no longer the centre of the TV show, she wasn't through season 2, hers was an ancillary story and not part of the main except for 2 episodes where she was alongside Rand. Season 3 will probably bring her a bit more into the story, but in the books RJ gave her a bit more prominence as is usual for a character who is about to go away for a long while. 

 

[notpropaganda73]

1 hour ago, king of nowhere said:

i disagree. the thing is, that plot never went anywhere. we never see any other darkfriend seeking redemption in the books. no, that one does not count, she was never a dedicated darkfriend who had a change of heart, she always wanted to undermine them.

sure, jesus rand was a nice moment, but ultimately that subplot could be excised from the books without any issue.

 

The entire tension of the books for me was Rand and whether he's too far gone, what sort of victory would it be if he won and remained the ice-cold Rand, the tension between light and dark, and the road to hell paved with good intentions. 

 

Ingtar set that up in book 2, the show should never have bothered with him if they weren't going to give him the full arc. Give it to Liandrin now and it will likely pay off very well - however I still think we need someone close to Rand to show him that path/danger. 

Edited October 13, 2023 by notpropaganda73

[Guire]

16 minutes ago, Scarloc99 said:

Moiraine is no longer the centre of the TV show, she wasn't through season 2, hers was an ancillary story and not part of the main except for 2 episodes where she was alongside Rand. Season 3 will probably bring her a bit more into the story, but in the books RJ gave her a bit more prominence as is usual for a character who is about to go away for a long while. 

 

So why did Rafe discuss adding additional season 3 material for Pike because she is the star.  Unless you have insider info, this is just a guess.

[fra85uk]

8 minutes ago, notpropaganda73 said:

 

The entire tension of the books for me was Rand and whether he's too far gone, what sort of victory would it be if he won and remained the ice-cold Rand, the tension between light and dark, and the road to hell paved with good intentions. 

 

Ingtar set that up in book 2, the show should never have bothered with him if they weren't going to give him the full arc. Give it to Liandrin now and it will likely pay off very well - however I still think we need someone close to Rand to show him that path/danger. 

 

The Ingtar reveal as a Darkfriend and his redemption was so effective and moving in the books. There was no reason in the show to keep him while spoiling of this arc and its relevance in Rand's growth. 

I totally agree with you.

[Pumbaa]

I wasn't expecting the show to be a 1/1 adaptation of the books, but this isn't very pleasant.

 

Rand is sidelined to 2nd rate character, the Flame battle wasn't epic at all and that unhealable wound that will shape him for the rest of the series is caused by Matt and healed by one power noob. Come on, they did my boys dirty.

[Scarloc99]

10 minutes ago, Guire said:

So why did Rafe discuss adding additional season 3 material for Pike because she is the star.  Unless you have insider info, this is just a guess.

Where did he say that? I saw him talk about writing new stuff for season 2 because Moiraine is not in book 2 much and the story obviously didn't follow book 3 in terms of narrative but more in terms of character development. We know in the Shadow Rising she tries to balance between wanting to advise Rand and him ignoring her, Rafe has said that season 3 will follow that track that Rand doesn't trust her anymore and Lan will be put in the middle of that (as he is in the book), 

 

Rafe has also said how the writers not familiar with the books openly gasped at finding out a character they thought was untouchable would be dying, so that leans very heavily into Moiraine going through the door. Now, if it is the case that this will happen at the end of season 3 as opposed to the start of season 4 then we may see a little more of Moiraine, it is a standard writer approach to give a character who is ding more screentime to make the death more meaningful. it is why Ishy had as much screen time as he did in season 2, writiers know that they have 6 seasons to build the EF5, they therefore focus on the character who isnt going to be around anymore, and Directors let that actor have some juicy scenes because this will be the total of his work on the show. 

[Scarloc99]

10 minutes ago, fra85uk said:

 

The Ingtar reveal as a Darkfriend and his redemption was so effective and moving in the books. There was no reason in the show to keep him while spoiling of this arc and its relevance in Rand's growth. 

I totally agree with you.

Personally as much as it surprised me on the first read through, by the time of my 5th, 6th or 8th I really wonder why it was included in that book, it is never paid off anywhere else except by BS in the really really really bad Verin reveal. 

 

In the books there is no real indicator he is a dark friend until the moment he tells Rand, to then just turn around and die. In the show it would have come across not as an emotional moment, but as a bit of a cheap reveal for non book fans. Also it makes no logical sense, in the books Ishy was not at Falme and did not tell Fain to take the horn there, he didn't want the horn in the hands of the Seanchan. The idea has always been that Ingtar was compelled to get the horn, but then Fain got it and went and did what he did. 

 

In the Show that thread makes no sense, why go all the way to Falme what was the end goal, why steal the horn back from Ishy? I think the reality is that at the start of the writing process Rafe was going to play out ingtars arc, but posisbly when it cam eot actually following through the reveal just made no logical sense at all and so they decided to leave him the hero. Rafe did also say that some characters who where Dark friends would not be in the show, so I think that was Ingtar. Also no portal stone, no real motivator for such a drastic shift in allegiance. If you make turning to the light as easy as just walking along with Perrin then you suddenly devalue that choice darkfriends have made. 

 

 

[Guire]

52 minutes ago, Scarloc99 said:

Personally as much as it surprised me on the first read through, by the time of my 5th, 6th or 8th I really wonder why it was included in that book, it is never paid off anywhere else except by BS in the really really really bad Verin reveal. 

 

In the books there is no real indicator he is a dark friend until the moment he tells Rand, to then just turn around and die. In the show it would have come across not as an emotional moment, but as a bit of a cheap reveal for non book fans. Also it makes no logical sense, in the books Ishy was not at Falme and did not tell Fain to take the horn there, he didn't want the horn in the hands of the Seanchan. The idea has always been that Ingtar was compelled to get the horn, but then Fain got it and went and did what he did. 

 

In the Show that thread makes no sense, why go all the way to Falme what was the end goal, why steal the horn back from Ishy? I think the reality is that at the start of the writing process Rafe was going to play out ingtars arc, but posisbly when it cam eot actually following through the reveal just made no logical sense at all and so they decided to leave him the hero. Rafe did also say that some characters who where Dark friends would not be in the show, so I think that was Ingtar. Also no portal stone, no real motivator for such a drastic shift in allegiance. If you make turning to the light as easy as just walking along with Perrin then you suddenly devalue that choice darkfriends have made. 

 

 

I was wrong about Rafe and Moraine for season 3.  I read a few articles and merged them in my mind.  As far as Ingtar and particularly Verin.  Those a pretty beloved scenes by majority of commenters who reread the series.  What about the series did you enjoy that made multiple rereads appealing?  Also what is your background as much as you wish to reveal.  The world is a big place.  I have figured out that often cultural, educational, generational differences lead to people just talking past each other.  Something I feel like Jordan explored in the series heavily. I know I apparently in quite unusual in my life experience and perspectives even though it all feels normal to me.

[Rhaze]

 Another big arc they skipped in season 2 (book 3) was Rand's ta'veren. In the books we get to see how he effected the pattern just by being there. Every village he went through showed the effect of his ta'veren, both the good and the bad, and the balance between the two.

 

 in WoT, Ta'veren is the plot armor. Ta'veren is how they could overcome what would seemingly be impossible odds. Especially with them together and how important it was for them to be together so their combined Ta'veren would have the most effect.

 

 Most non-book readers dont even know what it is.

[Scarloc99]

6 hours ago, Guire said:

I was wrong about Rafe and Moraine for season 3.  I read a few articles and merged them in my mind.  As far as Ingtar and particularly Verin.  Those a pretty beloved scenes by majority of commenters who reread the series.  What about the series did you enjoy that made multiple rereads appealing?  Also what is your background as much as you wish to reveal.  The world is a big place.  I have figured out that often cultural, educational, generational differences lead to people just talking past each other.  Something I feel like Jordan explored in the series heavily. I know I apparently in quite unusual in my life experience and perspectives even though it all feels normal to me.

Books 1-3, and I have discussed this at length in other places, are for me the weakest of the series, so much repetition, characters that are in many ways a pastiche, it is book 4-6 where I fell in love. It is only because I bought books 1-6 at once that I stuck to it. 
 

Verin is another storyline I love the potential of, but her reveal, that whole moment was just dropped by brandon, it is absorbed by what else is going on with egwene, the fall out is barely dealt with, you don’t really see how other aes sedai react to the news. In the show I really hope they show Verrin walking that fine line, killing or torturing in the name of the dark lord to keep her secret. 
 

As to my background? Am in the UK, read lord of the rings when I was 8, hobbit when I was 6, live fantasy, I did a post about how I shouldn’t want to keep coming back to the wheel of time, so much of the writing is just ok, there are so many cliches and issues with the way Robert Jordan constructed his books, and like I say the fact that, for me at least, it peaks in the middle and has a weak start and a bad end. Yet I do keep coming back, the world has so much potential in it and is so rich that I can forgive the weakness in the actual story of Rand Al Thor. 

Edited October 13, 2023 by Scarloc99

[Scarloc99]

1 hour ago, Rhaze said:

 Another big arc they skipped in season 2 (book 3) was Rand's ta'veren. In the books we get to see how he effected the pattern just by being there. Every village he went through showed the effect of his ta'veren, both the good and the bad, and the balance between the two.

 

 in WoT, Ta'veren is the plot armor. Ta'veren is how they could overcome what would seemingly be impossible odds. Especially with them together and how important it was for them to be together so their combined Ta'veren would have the most effect.

 

 Most non-book readers dont even know what it is.

I feel that, as with his power levels and sword fighting, when RJ realised he wasn’t wrapping it all up in book 3/4 then he dialed back that effect because while you see it from book 4 it does ease off a lot and then builds back up to a crescendo under BS.