WoT Season 2 - I WATCHED ALL THE EPISODES TOPIC

[SinisterDeath]

4 minutes ago, Vartija said:

Another thing about the preview for Episode 7:

 

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The woman with the cloudy eyes: possibly Gitara Moroso? Could we get a flashback cold open from New Spring and the foretelling? 

 

I was thinking the same thing.

[HeavyHalfMoonBlade]

Unrelated complaining warning. Was triggered by the image of the Whitecloaks.

 

No armour in the history of the world was designed to catch blows. Armour is meant to soften/deflect blows. That huge thing on the shoulder sort of looks like a cavalry pauldron, but mutated to the point where a downward blow to the shoulder would be caught and and the whole force would be transferred into the wearer's shoulder, certainly spraining if breaking bones in the whole area and rendering the user useless. And that is not even mentioning no helmet! A rock tied to a stick would effectively take these men out of action. At least there is no huge belt across the chest, one does not use belts to attach shoulder armour, one uses shoelaces or very thin straps to attach to the hauberk underneath. Plate without padding, is a bit pointless.

 

Sorry, a little knowledge is dangerous, and too much knowledge makes one a poor dinner party guest. 

[EmreY]

22 hours ago, ilovezam said:

The show really has gotten a lot better compared to Season 1, and is miles ahead of something like Rings of Power (even though that might seem an incredibly low bar).

 

It is.  The best thing about that show is the comments people leave on Youtube. 🙂 

 

18 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

I was thinking the same thing.

 

It must be.

[Jaysen Gore]

17 hours ago, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

Unrelated complaining warning. Was triggered by the image of the Whitecloaks.

 

No armour in the history of the world was designed to catch blows. Armour is meant to soften/deflect blows. That huge thing on the shoulder sort of looks like a cavalry pauldron, but mutated to the point where a downward blow to the shoulder would be caught and and the whole force would be transferred into the wearer's shoulder, certainly spraining if breaking bones in the whole area and rendering the user useless. And that is not even mentioning no helmet! A rock tied to a stick would effectively take these men out of action. At least there is no huge belt across the chest, one does not use belts to attach shoulder armour, one uses shoelaces or very thin straps to attach to the hauberk underneath. Plate without padding, is a bit pointless.

 

Sorry, a little knowledge is dangerous, and too much knowledge makes one a poor dinner party guest. 

It might be useful against an offside lateral swing aimed at the neck, for right handed swordsmen who would have a hard time parrying a left side approach. 

 

Here's my No-Prize attempt though. More likely, it is intended to be decorative. Whitecloaks are bullies, and sneaks, and knives in the dark - not working soldiers - and overly concerned with appearances.  Because they're not armored anywhere else, unless there is mail under their pretty white cloaks. So it really is possible that it is style over substance, but it's not a show issue, it's an actual in world issue. 

 

Don't think of Whitecloaks as the Knights Templar; think of them as the Moral Majority crossed with the Spanish Inquisition

[Mirefox]

59 minutes ago, Jaysen Gore said:

It might be useful against an offside lateral swing aimed at the neck, for right handed swordsmen who would have a hard time parrying a left side approach. 

 

Here's my No-Prize attempt though. More likely, it is intended to be decorative. Whitecloaks are bullies, and sneaks, and knives in the dark - not working soldiers - and overly concerned with appearances.  Because they're not armored anywhere else, unless there is mail under their pretty white cloaks. So it really is possible that it is style over substance, but it's not a show issue, it's an actual in world issue. 

 

Don't think of Whitecloaks as the Knights Templar; think of them as the Moral Majority crossed with the Spanish Inquisition

At what point can we just say that the production team was more interested in “cool” visuals than practicality?  Not everything needs an in-show explanation.

 

When we saw Rand throw his (strung) bow on the ground a couple minutes into Episode 1 I figured we weren’t dealing with armament geniuses, here.

[Jaysen Gore]

14 minutes ago, Mirefox said:

At what point can we just say that the production team was more interested in “cool” visuals than practicality?  Not everything needs an in-show explanation.

 

When we saw Rand throw his (strung) bow on the ground a couple minutes into Episode 1 I figured we weren’t dealing with armament geniuses, here.

I'm also fine with it being covered under the Rule of Cool - it's epic fantasy, not grimdark, so some license is allowed

[Elendir]

2 hours ago, Jaysen Gore said:

Don't think of Whitecloaks as the Knights Templar; think of them as the Moral Majority crossed with the Spanish Inquisition

 

Main bulk of WC was army exactly like in cause of knight orders. They participated in skirmishes and wars with neighbours of Amadicia and they are main military power in Amadicia. Their leader was mentioned as one of greatest general.

[HeavyHalfMoonBlade]

Yes, there is definitely the cool aspect, which I am totally cool with. Even if it also annoys me, lol. And the need for unique visuals, costume designers want distinct flavours for the show and for the different factions within it. 

 

There is also the expectation of the audience. In a book, you can say "he unstrung his bow as keeping it strung was not good for the string". You can say "he carried his unstrung bow like a staff". On TV you need to work that into the dialogue, you have to explain what the person is doing when unstringing and you probably need to keep reminding people. And when they are carrying an unstrung bow, the audience is going to see a stick. So, it is simply easier to not unstring bows, apply a little poetic license and conform to people's expectations about what a bow looks like.

Edited September 24, 2023 by HeavyHalfMoonBlade

[Scarloc99]

On 9/21/2023 at 4:00 PM, SinisterDeath said:

Two possibilities exist.
Continuity error.
or

It was Dark and Verin didn't see the dead fade behind the stone where Moiraine was.

Continuity error is entirely plausible.
From a logistics POV, it's safer for everyone to remove the downed stunt actor(s) while Daniel and the other 2 are going at it. Definitely an oversight to not return the 4th body to the scene.. 

 

From a script POV that could be on purpose because, from Verin's POV she might only "see" 3, because of her positioning. Circle of stones, The one Moiraine was at, was facing Verin's position, and the Fade died in front of the stone, blocked from Verin's Line of Sight. 
Tomas could have yelled back "4", but....

I mean this whole thing was probably not fimled in one shot, I would not be surprised if the Moiraine thing was night 1 of 3 and the rest of the fight was over 2 nights, I also expect there where not 4 "fades" when it came to shooting the scene, At most you would only need 2 stunt people for the fades, the directors of John Wick talked about the tricks they use to make the 10 stunt actors they have for shooting, appear like 100 different bad guys for Keanu to kill, it includes clever cuts and edits, costume changes in the middle of the "fight" so the same guy can die 3 times in the same scene and look like 3 different people, and also things like, at the start of shooting all the stunt guys have facial and long hair, as the shoot progresses they slowly get that hair cut and cut scene to scene so that they can appear to be very different one scene to the next. As one of teh director said it means that the fight scenes are one thing that can not be part re shot a few days later if it wasn't right. 

[nsmallw]

On 9/20/2023 at 4:09 AM, king of nowhere said:

On 9/19/2023 at 6:27 PM, Ralph said:

I suspect we are about to see Lan defeat two other warders

Indeed, the last trailer points there.

On one hand, the whole setup - them thinking lan is a darkfriend - feels completely wrong and will be hard to swallow.

On the other, we may actually see lan win a fight! For the first time in the whole show! Yay!

 

I hope he does not kill the other warders

WOW, I believe that was the most underwhelming scene yet with Lan, and that's saying something! 

[king of nowhere]

is someone else watching the show in another language with subtitles? I do, because i have soome troubles hearing dialogues sometimes. and I noticed in italian the subtitles don't match very well. the meaning is the same, but the words are all different. like, the dubbing team took the dialogues in english, translated them liberally trying to make them sound good and recorded them. then the subtitles team toook also the dialogue in english, without even checking how those dialogues sound in italian, and just made a word-for-word translation.

it's not a big deal for me - reading the dialogues i can get the meaning, and from that I can figure out the words I missed - but it is annoying.

[SinisterDeath]

19 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

is someone else watching the show in another language with subtitles? I do, because i have soome troubles hearing dialogues sometimes. and I noticed in italian the subtitles don't match very well. the meaning is the same, but the words are all different. like, the dubbing team took the dialogues in english, translated them liberally trying to make them sound good and recorded them. then the subtitles team toook also the dialogue in english, without even checking how those dialogues sound in italian, and just made a word-for-word translation.

it's not a big deal for me - reading the dialogues i can get the meaning, and from that I can figure out the words I missed - but it is annoying.

Welcome to the world of foreign Subtitles? lol

Shows that are dubbed in english are notorious for having a completely different text in english subtitles.

[HeavyHalfMoonBlade]

Subtitles can be weird. My ex always wanted subtitles on everything, and they had to be English (as otherwise I would have to listen to criticism of the translation) and often they were just garbage, like with the same kind of meaning, but using different analogies, similes, grammar, etc., like it had been translated to another language, then back translated to English without much care. Them being based on a dubbed script would make a lot of sense (as then you don't have only the character limitation and character speed of subs to worry about, but also the timing of the spoken language to take into account). Hmm, mystery solved 🙂

[king of nowhere]

11 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

Welcome to the world of foreign Subtitles? lol

Shows that are dubbed in english are notorious for having a completely different text in english subtitles.

I've watched one piece, and the subtitles match. I don't know if it's a netflix vs primevideo thing

[SinisterDeath]

11 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

I've watched one piece, and the subtitles match. I don't know if it's a netflix vs primevideo thing

That's not an example of an international dub with subtitles.

 

Go watch Ragnarok on Netflix with English Dub and English Subtitles.

Any time the "original" language is different, the subtitles are never going to be a 1:1 match from one language to another.
You can pretty much see this on any Anime where it's original language is Japanese. It was first subbed in english, and then later dubbed in English. The English subs almost never match the English dubs... 

 

It drives me up a wall. (Jojo's is another prime example of this)

[king of nowhere]

25 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

That's not an example of an international dub with subtitles.

 

Go watch Ragnarok on Netflix with English Dub and English Subtitles.

Any time the "original" language is different, the subtitles are never going to be a 1:1 match from one language to another.
You can pretty much see this on any Anime where it's original language is Japanese. It was first subbed in english, and then later dubbed in English. The English subs almost never match the English dubs...

how is that not an example of international dub?

maybe for you it wasn't, because it was made in english first. but i still watch it in italian.

[SinisterDeath]

38 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

how is that not an example of international dub?

maybe for you it wasn't, because it was made in english first. but i still watch it in italian.

 

12 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

I've watched one piece, and the subtitles match. I don't know if it's a netflix vs primevideo thing

You mentioned One Piece.

You said the subtitles matched.

I assume you meant the English subtitles match the English words, or that the Italian subtitles matched what was being said in English.

 

What I meant in context of One Piece not being an "international dub" was that it's original language was English, it's subtitles were originally English. So it' doesn't suffer the same English subs not matching with the English sound track.

One Piece doesn't track like a foreign film cheaply ported to the US.
It feels more like a Hollywood film ported to international markets. Albeit, it's probably one of the best attempts I've seen.. specially given that the author of the source material was actually involved in the show I guess?
 

- - - -

Ragnarok's original language is Norwegian, it's Dubbed in English, and Subbed in English.
The English Dubs doen't match the English Subs. Ragnarok is also on Netflix.
It has the Exact same issue you mention with Wheel of Time.

It's part the course for a LOT of dubbed/subbed Movies/TV shows, and it's sort of an anthema to those of us who watch dubs with subs on...

For reference so we're using the same definitions.
English dub = English dubbed over the original language spoken in the film.
Italian dub = Italian dubbed over the original language spoken in the film.

Edited September 27, 2023 by SinisterDeath

[king of nowhere]

19 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

 

You mentioned One Piece.

You said the subtitles matched.

I assume you meant the English subtitles match the English words, or that the Italian subtitles matched what was being said in English.

 

What I meant in context of One Piece not being an "international dub" was that it's original language was English, it's subtitles were originally English. So it' doesn't suffer the same English subs not matching with the English sound track.

 

I meant I watch it in italian, with italian subtitles. just like I watch wot in italian, with italian subtitles (i find subtitles of a different language than the audio to be confusing). and for both shows the original language is english. so, same situation for both.

but in one piece, the italian subtitles match the italian dubs. in wot, italian subtitles and dubs do not match.

[SinisterDeath]

3 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

I meant I watch it in italian, with italian subtitles. just like I watch wot in italian, with italian subtitles (i find subtitles of a different language than the audio to be confusing). and for both shows the original language is english. so, same situation for both.

but in one piece, the italian subtitles match the italian dubs. in wot, italian subtitles and dubs do not match.

One Piece might just be the exception not the rule.
 

12 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

I don't know if it's a netflix vs primevideo thing

You brought up Netflix/Prime and I brought up Ragnarok which is on Netflix, and the exact same thing occurs for English speakers/readers.

[DigificWriter]

47 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

in one piece, the italian subtitles match the italian dubs. in wot, italian subtitles and dubs do not match.

 

Which is a specific problem with the production of the subtitles, not the streaming service in question itself.

[Windigo]

On 9/22/2023 at 5:02 PM, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

Unrelated complaining warning. Was triggered by the image of the Whitecloaks.

 

No armour in the history of the world was designed to catch blows. Armour is meant to soften/deflect blows. That huge thing on the shoulder sort of looks like a cavalry pauldron, but mutated to the point where a downward blow to the shoulder would be caught and and the whole force would be transferred into the wearer's shoulder, certainly spraining if breaking bones in the whole area and rendering the user useless.

I do not know enough about armor to comment on how silly one arm and shoulder covered is, 
But I did notice this similarity. 

Edited September 28, 2023 by Windigo

[Gary Again]

Excited about the new episode. Lan preparing Rand to meet the Amerlyn is one of my favorite parts of the books and it looks like we will get that. Siuan and Moiraine in the same city with Siuan's talent for undoing knots could get interesting I liked the idea of Siuan linking with Rand so she can see the weaves and do the unknotting but who knows. Rand seems determined to not be around Moiraine so it doesn't seem like they are going this way but I would like this.

 

We may also get the portal stones which I think is a key developmental point for everyone involved and it also mirrors the wise one test so I thought it was important for Rand and Mat in particular. Adding on to that I hope Mat tries to gamble against fate and follow Rand to help him without leaving with him like Ishy insisted. 

 

Also kind of like what has been developing between Ingtar and Loial doing what they can for Egwene, people were wondering how we would get the Ingtar arc and I think this is the start of it. I wonder if we will see Elayne/Nynaeve link up with Ingtar and Loial since they have similar goals.

 

Will also be interesting to see what happens with Moiraine's family I really am fascinated by that as they can go in a lot of directions. I suspect both of them honestly but they are both such terrific actors that I could see it go any way. I feel like we will get a lot here to wrap up Cairhien plot and then next week I'd imagine Falme should take up the whole episode. Overall I'm excited I think this season has been building up really well and last episode I think was far and away the best episode so far so I'm excited to see where this is going.

 

 

Edited September 28, 2023 by Gary Again

[Spiritweaver1]

Well I thought I would drop in and share a few thoughts.  Season two is clearly much better than season one from a writing and production standpoint.  I still fail to understand why the team feels they need to redo everything. I don't have too much of a problem with it except they are leaving money on the table in terms of some of the dialog and character development.  It does leave room for somebody to come in later with a more faithful adaptation which I would like to see.  I am not a fan of the shows propensity to bring people back from the dead.  At least in the books they had to get a new body.  I think the timeline will be interesting as it is beginning to look like Falme will be the climax of season 2 which sort of leaves us at the end of The Great Hunt which means we have only gotten through two books in our two seasons.  

 

I find it interesting that the show seems to be more mysterious about the motives of some of the characters rather than in the book.  Yet they felt it necessary to show Ishy at Suroth's side right from the get go rather than revealing her as a dark friend much later.   Some of my favorites such as  Matt haven't be developed much yet and I certainly hope that starts to happen.    As noted elsewhere in this thread the production teams seems to be spending all its character development time on the women.  Hopefully they will remember that one of the main points of Jordan's world is that men and women have to work together to be successful.  I am not yet convinced Logain will be teaching Rand as that seems more misdirection.  It would make the most sense from a dramatic standpoint to have another male forsaken show up maneuvered by Lanfear to teach him all the books. .  You would only have to have him in the show for season 3.  

 

Well all in all the show seems to be finding its footing and is certainly entertaining enough.  I still have problems with some of the random deviations from the books that don't really need to be there but as has been previously noted the team is taking a very loose approach to the source material.  They are creating something and if it isn't Jordan's world it may still be an interesting alternative world.

[Windigo]

15 minutes ago, Spiritweaver1 said:

Some of my favorites such as  Matt haven't be developed much yet and I certainly hope that starts to happen.    As noted elsewhere in this thread the production teams seems to be spending all its character development time on the women.

This is not far off from the books, Mat really didn't get much development until the end of book 2.  Rand had more development and really much of that is because we saw almost all of the first book from Rand's POV, and much of the 2nd. The first Mat POV is chapter 19 in book 3 TDR

[Mirefox]

I’m confused about pacing.  I thought going in to this season that this was supposed to be books 2 and 3.  Yet we are seemingly going to finish right where 2 finishes.  Are they going to conflate Falme and Tear, or maybe rush Tear to start Season 3 and out to The Wastes from there?