Season 2 Trailer

[Guire]

46 minutes ago, Samt said:

 

I did not recognize that as the same actress.  Thanks.

I think the actors are going to look slightly different in seasons because long breaks people will age slightly.  This happened a lot in GoT.  Also I think lighting changes, better post production, make up changes have softened Liandrins face some.  I wasnt sure it was her til I saw other people lighten scene and note it was her.  From a pure visual perspective I think this season has greatly improved.  My issues are mostly style choices and story choices.  It looks good and looks like it is miles better than RoP for less cost.

[SinisterDeath]

49 minutes ago, Samt said:

For the record, I thought that the Wheel of Time adaptation has too much gratuitous sex...

Good news, you can always fast forward the s-exposition scenes and still get a feel for how the set designs are similar and different.

 

GoT is endlessly compared to every other fantasy show as the superior adaptation in every category, so it could be good to get an idea of what others consider the best of the best. 

 

 

[SinisterDeath]

1 hour ago, Guire said:

Thatvwas what some of my initial weird feeling about season 1.  The lighting, set, and location choices gave it a stage production kind of feel.  Lots of scenes rooms felt too small or built up in odd ways.  Someone on youtube said this might be a nod to more asian fantasy tv and movies.  I judge everything thats high quality fantasy by 80s Conan the Barbarian and GoT.  So kind of big spaces.

When I think 80s Conan, I think helicopter footage of a random hilly countryside field in some country, campy b-quality stages with lots of snake statues, and about a third of the movie is pure exposition with Arnold grunting at us as the women swoon. (Which then makes me wonder after learning about his affair(s), how he didn't knock up half of Hollywood in the 80s? Maybe one benefit of the roids?)

 

Anyways, nostalgia is fun and I get it.

I've noticed a lot of movies/shows shifting to tighter shots that when they're not careful they feel like a "play" and not a "movie".

 

For me, this wasn't one of them.

But I have seen some pretty bad offenders. I've forgotten their names... 

[Guire]

10 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

Good news, you can always fast forward the s-exposition scenes and still get a feel for how the set designs are similar and different.

 

GoT is endlessly compared to every other fantasy show as the superior adaptation in every category, so it could be good to get an idea of what others consider the best of the best. 

 

 

Counterpoint.  Time is highest currency for this show.  Any scene shown is a scene cut in an already super compressed story.  The cut scene of Tam and Egwene served more purpose to me than multiple Rand and Egwene romantic scenes.  I assume since idea is to correct GoT hard male gaze,  we will get more soft romance.  I dont mind sex, nudity, anything.  In GoT I usually fast forward on rewatches.  In WoT I would rather see other things from story.

[Guire]

9 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

When I think 80s Conan, I think helicopter footage of a random hilly countryside field in some country, campy b-quality stages with lots of snake statues, and about a third of the movie is pure exposition with Arnold grunting at us as the women swoon. (Which then makes me wonder after learning about his affair(s), how he didn't knock up half of Hollywood in the 80s? Maybe one benefit of the roids?)

 

Anyways, nostalgia is fun and I get it.

I've noticed a lot of movies/shows shifting to tighter shots that when they're not careful they feel like a "play" and not a "movie".

 

For me, this wasn't one of them.

But I have seen some pretty bad offenders. I've forgotten their names... 

Go back and watch Conan again.  Sure some scenes are bad soundstage but places look real and interesting.  Orgy temple, exterior to mount Doom temple, inside tavern, childhood village.  Lots of great settings that enhance story and felt like you were in a vast world even though it was mostly southern Spain and a few Northern European remotes.  And its 40 years old.  WoT feels small for some reason when it shouldn't and the droned long pan shots of beautiful landscape dont always feel connected to story.  I also not big fan of location choices because of story implicatikns even though tjey are stunning.

[Samt]

48 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

Good news, you can always fast forward the s-exposition scenes and still get a feel for how the set designs are similar and different.

 

GoT is endlessly compared to every other fantasy show as the superior adaptation in every category, so it could be good to get an idea of what others consider the best of the best. 

 

 

I’m also just not really interested in getting into a series if there isn’t an end. ASOIAF isn’t done and reports are that the show didn’t stick the landing. I guess this kind of goes to why I am suspicious of changes in the WoT adaptation. If it gets too far from the source material we’re into uncharted territory and I’m not confident these guys can get there without following the map.

[SinisterDeath]

1 hour ago, Samt said:

I’m also just not really interested in getting into a series if there isn’t an end. ASOIAF isn’t done and reports are that the show didn’t stick the landing. I guess this kind of goes to why I am suspicious of changes in the WoT adaptation. If it gets too far from the source material we’re into uncharted territory and I’m not confident these guys can get there without following the map.

The show "ended" where the books are supposed to "end" because G.R.R is grinding his wheels finishing the last two. 

 

The last seasons issues, go beyond just that the books aren't done. D&D (show runners) literally didn't know what they were doing, and their hands were held the entire time, until the last season where they were brought to the edge of a cliff and yeeted off of it. 

[DaddyFinn]

3 hours ago, Samt said:

For the record, I thought that the Wheel of Time adaptation has too much gratuitous sex...

Huh, I don't recall any sex scenes unless kissing = sex

[king of nowhere]

regarding the comparisons with got and stuff like stage quality, I think confirmation bias has a lot to do with it.

if one has liked got, then one is more likely to praise the overall quality and ignore small details. if one did not like wot, one is more likely to nitpick every little thing. including things that are not problems at all, just because he's annoyed and more likely to complain.

 

it's pretty bad form to call criticism bias-induced, because it can just be a cheap way to shot down criticism, legitimate or not. On the other hand, bias does exhist, and everyone is susceptible to it. angry fans that were expecting one thing and got a different one most of all.

while I certainly would not want to pan all criticism as bias, when it comes to the setting, lighting, and all that stuff that is very suble and virtually impossible to judge objectively, I do think bias has a major role. especially because there's a very strong correlation that people who liked the overall adaptation are also perfectly fine with the image, while people who didn't like the overall adaptation are also lamenting on the production quality.

[Agitel]

I can't say I'm hyped by the trailer, but I'm still open to the season. I was on board with most of season one. It wasn't my dream adaptation, but I accepted it. Though it kind of finished on a huge dud for me. Part of that can be attributed to actor and lockdown issues, and last minute rewrites. If S2 can be more of (most of) S1 but higher in quality and at least execute their vision well (S1E8 was not a well executed vision), I'll be okay.

 

I should give the S2 trailer a few more watches.

[Elder_Haman]

I think people underestimate the impact of COVID on some of the production quality issues. I'm stoked to see if the CGI improves. (The weaves in the trailer are trending in the right direction).

[DigificWriter]

Off-topic tangent to address Game of Thrones: if you're chalking up the disastrous conclusion of that show to a lack of source material, you're seriously misdiagnosing the situation because what caused the demise of that show and Benioff and Weiss' career is not the fact that they had to 'make up an ending', it's the fact that they pulled a massive bait-and-switch on thousands of viewers at the eleventh hour after having spent the previous 71 episodes flat-out lying to said viewers - repeatedly - about certain characters and their narrative trajectories.

 

Okay, tangent over.

 

Now to a few thoughts on the trailer:

* If Moiraine has been Stilled (as I believe is the case and as has been intimated by Rosamund and others), I'm pretty sure that her Oath of exile would be nullified, which would open the door for her to return to Tar Valon

 

* Having said that, though, I'd forgotten that we already knew that Moiraine was going back to Cairihen and that we saw Siuan get out of a carriage in a previous trailer, so it's entirely possible that if we do see them reunited in the present, it happens in Cairihen

 

* I have a very strong feeling that the two conversation scenes we see involving Siuan are being 'transposed' together by fans due to the fact that Siuan is identically dressed in both

 

* Speaking of Cairihen,  I would not at all be surprised if that city is used as a temporary convergence point in the same way that Season 1 used Tar Valon as a temporary convergence point

 

* I still love the fact that the Damane are gagged with metal plates/pacifiers, although there is a part of me that wonders why they don't just spit them out or otherwise remove them

 

* I'm trying to figure out if the trailer is implying the existence of overt narrative time-skipping and whether or not I like the notion

 

* Circling back to the Damane, is it wrong of me to perversely hope that we get to see Egwene all 'gagged up' at some point?

[Samt]

26 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

Off-topic tangent to address Game of Thrones: if you're chalking up the disastrous conclusion of that show to a lack of source material, you're seriously misdiagnosing the situation because what caused the demise of that show and Benioff and Weiss' career is not the fact that they had to 'make up an ending', it's the fact that they pulled a massive bait-and-switch on thousands of viewers at the eleventh hour after having spent the previous 71 episodes flat-out lying to said viewers - repeatedly - about certain characters and their narrative trajectories.

 

Okay, tangent over.

 

Now to a few thoughts on the trailer:

* If Moiraine has been Stilled (as I believe is the case and as has been intimated by Rosamund and others), I'm pretty sure that her Oath of exile would be nullified, which would open the door for her to return to Tar Valon

 

* Having said that, though, I'd forgotten that we already knew that Moiraine was going back to Cairihen and that we saw Siuan get out of a carriage in a previous trailer, so it's entirely possible that if we do see them reunited in the present, it happens in Cairihen

 

* I have a very strong feeling that the two conversation scenes we see involving Siuan are being 'transposed' together by fans due to the fact that Siuan is identically dressed in both

 

* Speaking of Cairihen,  I would not at all be surprised if that city is used as a temporary convergence point in the same way that Season 1 used Tar Valon as a temporary convergence point

 

* I still love the fact that the Damane are gagged with metal plates/pacifiers, although there is a part of me that wonders why they don't just spit them out or otherwise remove them

 

* I'm trying to figure out if the trailer is implying the existence of overt narrative time-skipping and whether or not I like the notion

 

* Circling back to the Damane, is it wrong of me to perversely hope that we get to see Egwene all 'gagged up' at some point?

In regards to the Damane not spitting it out, it’s probably part of the adam/collar. They don’t spit it out for the same reasons damane don’t take off their collars in the book.

[king of nowhere]

1 hour ago, DigificWriter said:

Off-topic tangent to address Game of Thrones: if you're chalking up the disastrous conclusion of that show to a lack of source material, you're seriously misdiagnosing the situation because what caused the demise of that show and Benioff and Weiss' career is not the fact that they had to 'make up an ending', it's the fact that they pulled a massive bait-and-switch on thousands of viewers at the eleventh hour after having spent the previous 71 episodes flat-out lying to said viewers - repeatedly - about certain characters and their narrative trajectories.

 

Okay, tangent over.

tangent not over. I did not watch got, but those who did said that the quality was steadily going downwards for a while. plot holes were also mentioned.

but I did watch the witcher, and season 1 was great, season 2 was not, and season 3 was middling; until episode 5, which was good.

All this to say that there's no guarantees on the quality of a tv show. a good first season may be followed by a decline, and a bad first season may be followed by progress. we can only hope

[Guire]

A couple of damane things.  Pretty sure the pacifier thing is a reference to scolds bridles, branks, and iron gags used on woman and slaves.  Branks seemed to have a run in sixteenth and seventeeth century as punishment for women and some men who were considered mouthy.  Slaves in Americas were punished with them, vRious collars, and thumb screws as terror and pain compliance.  The devices often were part of a mask or collar device and many had a spike which pierced the tongue if one tried to talk or spit out gag.  On show possibly they are ordered to keep them in.  Thus would face terrific pain at thought of spitting them.  I think the reference serves the show runners stated feminist position as a historical reminder of brutality of patriarchy and slavery.  Preloads the worst parts of seanchan society.

 

The collars are also interesting.  They dont appear to be metal.  I was wondering how they would quickly collar a damane with that giant hunk of metal.  Not like snapping a ring collar.  Ithought that had story implications for sneaking extra collars in to break Egwene free.  If they are leather or cloth as they appear in trailer then they will be lighter and can just be thrown over damane head like poncho and carried folded in a bag.  I do hope someone in costuming realized they look like dickie shirt collars.  Wonder if male collar for rand will get same treatment or be dumped?

Edited July 24, 2023 by Guire

[king of nowhere]

27 minutes ago, Guire said:

A couple of damane things.  Pretty sure the pacifier thing is a reference to scolds bridles, branks, and iron gags used on woman and slaves. 

 

The collars are also interesting. 

or, it could just be a way to make damane more visible.

there was a big push in that direction, because while the book can point out a detail like a ring, a casual spectator will easily miss it. so aes sedai rings are massive. in a similar vein, long nails for the seanchan nobility became those claw-like jewelry, as they are much longer and you can't miss them.

and for the damane? a collar can easily be missed on a nondescript grey dress. many of them also seem to have ponitails, which could further mask a leash. from the front, it would be hard to see. instead, they made a huge metallic thing right on their faces. even their dresses are much more colorful. now you can't miss them.

 

i wonder, on the other hand, how the damane can talk with those things in mouth. because damane are supposed to communicate with sul'dam, if nothing else to report if they have problems. you know, besides being enslaved and tortured into compliance. can damane talk in the tv show? I will be curious to see.

also, I can't see the leashes at all in the few scenes where we see damane. maybe they won't be there. it will certainly be more convenient, it must be quite complicated and dangerous to ride horses while bound that way. a simple fall can easily result in a broken neck for the damane and broken arm for the sul'dam. and it could complicate things for the actors too.

[SinisterDeath]

4 hours ago, DigificWriter said:

* I still love the fact that the Damane are gagged with metal plates/pacifiers, although there is a part of me that wonders why they don't just spit them out or otherwise remove them

I believe there was one side photo we got a while back, and maybe confirmation from Sarah/Rafe, that it's not a pacifier, but a nose-piercing that hangs below the mouth.

In the picture below, you'll see that it touches the nose, and due to the lighting you can't see any detail about how it's attached.

[SinisterDeath]

Stumbled upon this.
You can actually see the loop the enters the nose from this large "nose ring" that covers the mouth.

 

[Guire]

22 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

Stumbled upon this.
You can actually see the loop the enters the nose from this large "nose ring" that covers the mouth.

 

The way it doesnt move suggests some internal component also on top of septal piercing.  Looks too much like a slaves iron gag to be completely coincedental.

[DigificWriter]

5 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

tangent not over. I did not watch got, but those who did said that the quality was steadily going downwards for a while. plot holes were also mentioned.

but I did watch the witcher, and season 1 was great, season 2 was not, and season 3 was middling; until episode 5, which was good.

All this to say that there's no guarantees on the quality of a tv show. a good first season may be followed by a decline, and a bad first season may be followed by progress. we can only hope

 

I watched 71 of GoT's 73 episodes (I'd been prematurely spoiled on the final two episodes prior to their airing and was so angry about the direction in which they took the series in the eleventh hour that I skipped them), and so I stand by my assessment of what went wrong with the show in the end and why the reception to its conclusion ended Benioff and Weiss' careers in Hollywood.

 

2 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

I believe there was one side photo we got a while back, and maybe confirmation from Sarah/Rafe, that it's not a pacifier, but a nose-piercing that hangs below the mouth.

 

Hmm. I still think they're awesome as a visual indicator of dehumanization and slavery regardless of what they actually are.

[A Memory Of Why]

6 hours ago, Guire said:

The collars are also interesting.  They dont appear to be metal.  I was wondering how they would quickly collar a damane with that giant hunk of metal.  Not like snapping a ring collar.  

 

Remember in the 90s we had those cool snap on wrist bands?

 

That, but with magic 🤗

[nsmallw]

On 7/21/2023 at 3:10 PM, WheelofJuke said:

I didn't study the trailer, so I'd have to say I'm going from more of a first gut impression sorta dealio. Intuition usually serves me fairly well. 😉 

*watches it a second time in slow mo*

Ok, there's so much wrong to unpack. 
- Rand grabbing Moi by the throat
- Perrin with a sword
- "You're the water that moves the wheel" line (paraphrasing) Suian line
- Eliada/Liandrin? I can't even keep them straight, lol. Her line about those who survive is so cringe. Why can't they just keep the great dialogue that Jordan wrote?
- Apparently constantly bloody Nynaeve ???
- All the sets/lighting/extras still seem really low budget and not believable. This was another of my main criticisms from S1. Everything's far too clean and neat and orderly and not lived in, from a set and lighting standpoint. None of the extras make the towns or cities feel real. 
-Ishy with Seanchan
- Perrin with child?
- more gratuitous Moi/Suian (?) love scenes (almost as cringe as seeing Rand/Eg S1...ugh)

- Rand bound on a cliff's edge (maybe a dream sequence?)...

The gestalt doesn't pass the smell test. 🙂

 

This point: "Why can't they just keep the great dialogue that Jordan wrote?"

 

 In the Dune movies they literally take so many direct quotes from the books and put them in the actor's mouths. In fact it's remarkable to me how much of the movies character dialogue are direct from the books. 

 

I don't see why the WOT show can't do the same. I know they did a bit of it in season one but a majority of the dialogue in the show so far is brand new. I hope in season two they incorporate more direct book quotes just like the Dune movies. 

[Elder_Haman]

1 hour ago, nsmallw said:

"Why can't they just keep the great dialogue that Jordan wrote?"

I love these books. But I wouldn’t describe Jordan as writing particularly great dialogue. 
 

His strengths are his plotting, world building, florid descriptions and his characters. His dialogue is, as my kids would say, mid. 
 

[SinisterDeath]

44 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

His strengths are his plotting, world building, florid descriptions and his characters. His dialogue is, as my kids would say, mid

I mean, one of the hardest parts they have is actually working in the great lines of dialogue into the show in such a way that feels natural and not in a cheesy or grandstanding way. Some will get upset that they'll include throw away easter-egg lines as fan-service... But honestly, we' haven't got to deep enough into the novels yet where the lines of dialogue are really worth stealing yet. (The only line I'm here for is the one where Nynaeve drops Lan off in the North)

[Elder_Haman]

51 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

I mean, one of the hardest parts they have is actually working in the great lines of dialogue

He wrote some really good lines of dialogue, no doubt. But you have to admit that he doesn't write snappy, dialogue driven scenes the way GRRM did (see what I did there?). His style is too florid - you spend too much time inside the character's heads to have dialogue drive the story.