How did the show hold up for you?

[templar7]

On 12/16/2021 at 3:48 PM, RhienneAgain said:

I'm sorry, I'm really confused by your response to my post.  What am I struggling to wrap my head around..?  What do you want me to get over..?  Sorry, genuinely lost here!

Ya.. My bad. That totally came out wrong. No offense to you intended. I was commenting on the hyper critical readers that can't imagine any deviation from the page being necessary. 

I am in agreement with your comment. I didn't realize it came off like that.  

[fra85uk]

13 hours ago, Cellardur said:

Slow start, but really strong middle with a terrible finale, which leaves a bad taste in the mouth. 

 

To fix season 2. There needs to be a few things done.

 

1. Get Amazon to extend the length of the episodes or at the very least make it 10 episodes per season. In truth at least 12 is needed.

 

2. Don't deter from the story. Spend the first episode correcting the mistakes of the Season finale. Have Lioel find Rand and pass on the message that Matt needs him to find the dagger. Have Rand then join the hunt for the dagger separately with Lioel and maybe Hurin. This allows for Rands  story to pretty much be the same. Have the new Matt somehow turn up where Fain is, he was being drawn by the dagger, get beaten up and left for dead near the Border Lands. Have him be spotted by Perrin and then healed by Verin on their way on the Hunt. Have Verin say that the evil in the dagger has taken root too deeply and Morraine's healing was only temporary.  It needs more Aes Sedai working together to heal him and he will die without the dagger.

 

First episode has correct the mistakes of the Season finale and set things back on track. The book can now pretty much progress on track with fewer changes. 

 

Better CGI hopefully Perrin and Ergwene's acting performances suffered due to Covid. Get them back up to scratch.

 

I think with 4 extra episodes they can correct a lot of mistakes and give the series time to breathe. The best episodes for me were 4 and 5 where they actually took time over the story and did not rush things. 

 

Lan and Morraine are both now well established and well liked. Nyneave is either loved or hated, but her character is well established. 

 

Focus this series on Perrin, Matt and Rand's development. Also introduce Elayne. Verin and Lan can give Perrin the basics of Elias' story. Then Perrin can spend the rest of the show dealing with this and the Way of the Leave, finally deciding to pick up his axe again in the finale, but not fully embracing being a Wolf brother.

 

I was speaking to some people pure show watches and with the bonus animations etc a lot of the world building has already been established. A lot of information and world building has sunk it. So they can really havve this series take off.

 

Rafe has spoken and it is clear that Moiraine/Lan will stay as main characters simply because they are the top actors of the show and cannot be sidelined.

It will be that + the 2 Marysues

[templar7]

On 12/16/2021 at 5:46 AM, LordyLord said:

Please read my initial comment 

https://dragonmount.com/forums/topic/110618-how-did-the-show-hold-up-for-you/?do=findComment&comment=4005531

Yup. Not well enough the first time

though. Sorry about that.

 

[RGD 675]

First off, was it Harriet that sold the rights to completely rape the series? 

If you haven't read the series, I get why the show might seem acceptable, but man oh man not to us die hard fans.  

Episode 1 alone is missing so much. No Thom? Seriously? And Mat is a scumbag? Perrin is married? Not for long after killing his wife. Never happened in the books. Poetic license is one thing, but this is completely rewriting the books. In 1 episode they do this. What can we expect next? I was shaking my head in astonished disbelief thru ep 1 and haven't stopped thru ep 8. I've never heard of such literary rape before. Ugly word, I know, but there isn't  another that describes what's being done. I'm astonished that Harriet allows it. Did she really even love her husband? I can't help wondering that?

 

[WoTwasThat]

Lurked for a while. This is my first and maybe last post. Just wanted to share my thoughts.

 

As a long time fan of the books, I’m crushed. I think the actors are all pretty great, but this isn’t Wheel of Time. Any adaptation requires some cuts, and some changes, and even some additions. But that’s not this. This can’t even be considered an adaptation. It’s like they took the characters and some of the concepts, loosely, and crafted an entirely new story. I think someone - Rafe? - said this would be a “new turning.” Turns out he meant that. Remember that Dark Tower movie? That’s what they did here. It doesn’t remotely resemble the story from the books. And my biggest frustration and complaint and question is “why?!” The Eye of the World made for a pretty good standalone Season 1. A few changes here and there, sure. I’ve got no problem with cutting stuff like Caemlyn. But they didn’t just cut - they CHANGED SO MUCH. 

 

This new story isn’t anywhere close to as good as the one RJ told. They’ve way overdone the female characters. Nyn and Eg in particular are way too powerful way too early. Feels like every episode had at least one totally implausible supergirl moment. The boys have all been relegated to what feels like secondary characters - they get plenty of screen time, but they’re so…. inconsequential. I understand the desire to “update” the material for a modern audience, but this is nuts. 

 

They neutered the gender dichotomy that was at the heart of WOT. The differences between Saidar and Saidin are never addressed - those words aren’t even mentioned in the series! Instead it’s all just “One Power” and some vague notion that “men can’t wield it without going mad.” The Dragon can be a man or woman… just changes things so much. That’s not a small change and it just feels like it devalues the conflict that made the books so interesting. 

 

The plot - the plan - was idiotic. The writers thought this whole “who is the Dragon” thing would be the central hook - ok I guess - and so the entire season Moraine is basically auditioning the five to see who is the Dragon, then takes the finalist on a suicide mission with zero training to face the Dark One?! That makes no sense. 

 

Rand’s “reveal” was horrible. A montage of Rand playing detective with Min and Machin Chin?!

 

Sarah Namamura (sp?) and Brandon Sanderson are supposed to be these major book fans who were involved in the production. So was Rafe. How did this happen?! How did they all decide that they just didn’t care about actually telling the WOT story?

 

I guess I’ll end the way I started. Just so disappointed. As someone mentioned earlier, this is the stop where I get off. It’s too disappointing to keep watching. Anyone holding out hope that this series will start getting truer to the series, why would you possibly think that at this point? Because of fan blowback? The second season has already been written and is being filmed. 

Edited December 25, 2021 by WoTwasThat

[fra85uk]

Christmas lunch, talking with my uncle, 60 years old, he is no book reader, saw the series, rated it 6/10, argued that he still believes Nynaeve to be the DR because "she is the strongest character" and it was impossible it was "Egwene's boyfriend"

 

We had then a "little chat" about the books and I gave him the Eotw book. He is Reading right now while we are resting on the sofa. 

[WoTwasThat]

2 hours ago, fra85uk said:

Christmas lunch, talking with my uncle, 60 years old, he is no book reader, saw the series, rated it 6/10, argued that he still believes Nynaeve to be the DR because "she is the strongest character" and it was impossible it was "Egwene's boyfriend"

 

We had then a "little chat" about the books and I gave him the Eotw book. He is Reading right now while we are resting on the sofa. 

Good for you, and him. One silver lining is this might encourage a few more people to read the real story.

 

People inevitably compare this to GOT. I read GOT in close conjunction with the TV series. I started the books sometime around season 2. And that adaptation was MUCH truer to the source material than this. I’d love to know the truth of why they felt the need to deviate so much, but I suspect Rafe would simply deny the premise of the question. 

Edited December 25, 2021 by WoTwasThat

[fra85uk]

3 minutes ago, WoTwasThat said:

Good for you, and him. One silver lining is this might encourage a few more people to read the real story.

 

People inevitably compare this to GOT. I read GOT in close conjunction with the TV series. I started the books sometime around season 2. And that adaptation was MUCH truer to the source material than this. I’d love to know the truth of why they felt the need to deviate so much, but I suspect Rafe would simply deny the premise of the question. 

 

Well, i Have to say that he brought the book home. ?

The intro with Lews Therin going Crazy hooked him and he said "why the show did not start like this?"

[MontNwir3d]

The first few episodes seem to be moving through the story too quickly for me. The live action in the last episode I really enjoyed though. The Wheel of Time is my favorite series. Overall 7/10

[king of nowhere]

Now that it's ended, i think i'd give it a solid 8/10. I was leaning on 9, but the last episode had many weaknesses.

the changes over the books, i don't mind. it is that kind of adaptation, and it can be a perfectly valid adaptation. considering the slog, and the weak romances, and a few other weaknesses of RJ writing, it can easily be better than the books.

there are some clunky dialogues occasionally. the plotting at times feels rushed, at times too slow. at times it's unclear. some good ideas are transposed poorly.

but, there's plenty of great scenes, plenty of good dialogues and characterization, plenty of good plots with good resolutions.

 

the show is pretty good overall. i am watching it together with the witcher, and i like the witcher, but watching them back to back, i feel clearly that wot is my favourite by a wide amount. it's got weak moments, but it's a good show

[Elayas]

The pack and me agree this is a terrible TV show as many have stated.  Rafe is in over his head and cannot continue as the showrunner but unfortunately a lot of damage has been done.  This is the Wheel of Time in name only due to destructive interpretations of the book grossly mischaracterizing key characters, plots and motivations to fit a marysue agenda.  This show needs balefire right out of the pattern.   Hopper tells me even none of the wolves like this show at all, it gives off a terrible odor.  They are staying clear of this stench of a show and recommend every two legs does the same.   

 

Rafe is a charlatan, if he wanted a Aes Sedai and Warder show he should have called it that.  Why focus on them when the story is about the 5.  It is not about Moraine, Lan, the Aes Sedai and White Tower.  He is in over his head

 

Why butcher Loial?  He is 8-10' tall with large ears, not some small, puny figure that looks nothing like he came from a Stedding.  

 

Why spend time precious airtime on non-important characters vice the main 5 developing their backstories getting the audience to care about them and their motivations.  No one cares about them due to the showrunner's terrible decisions.   Did I mention the showrunner is in over his head?  The Dark One's taint is on him the wolves tell me.

 

The 5 Dragons is insulting but hey it fits the marysue narrative so rock on with the bestest dragons evvassshhhh.  Saider and Saiden are not even mentioned which is key to the story.  Why is the breaking important, no one knows with this TV sham of a show leading men to go mad if they channel.  No colorful patches on Thom's cloak.....really?  The wolves always liked looking at them.  Perrin is a blacksmith, do the viewers know this...nope but they know he killed his wife....once again really?  Don't get me started on the poor wolf brother interpretation with Perrin.....the pack is not amused in the least.  I could go on and on and on.....

 

Rafe had one easy job, a faithful interoperation of the books and he would have made a legendary TV series.  He could have faithfully adapted the EoTW and the Great Hunt creating multiple spinoffs (this is when you have Morainne and Lan's backstory, one on the White Tower, Borderland, etc. as he worked thru the books.  He screwed it up as no one has any idea why the Dragon Reborn is so important and to be feared after the breaking of the world, no one cares about Perrin, Mat or Rand as the marysue disease much like the blight has crept into this TV sham, I mean show too much. 

 

In case many are wondering where is my TV time......I am not appearing in this blight infested show demeaning the outstanding works of Robert Jordan.  This show is beneath me and the pack, we have decided.  Now if Lanfear makes a showing and is true to her book character, give my agent a call at 1-800-BIGWOLF

 

For those who feel betrayed, take heart and re-read the books for what we wanted, not this trash on the TV.

Edited December 25, 2021 by Elayas

[Skipp]

Overall I am fairly happy with the season and would rate it a 7.5-8/10.  Lots of room for improvement but I feel the soul of the work is there.  Very excited to see where season 2 takes us.

 

And honestly it is very neat to be able to speculate on Wheel of Time again!

[MasterAblar]

I'd probably give it around a 7/10. Maybe 6.5 depending on how much I dwell on the negatives. Rafe's narative choices have had some upsides but also some very clear downsides when it comes to Perrin and Rand in particular. I could be somewhat forgiving for that but there are considerable amount of changes that just seem straight up unecessary. If they turned out good it would be alright but some of those are just worse than what was in the books and that's rather dissapointing. (AoL scene being the biggest culprit here).

 

While I understand Rafe's desire to really bring Moiraine to the forefront, I'm scared of the consequences that has on the development of other characters considering the already limited time they have. I like what they've done with Lan is some ways, but there's also been so many missed opportunities to make him feel more like what he is in the books. Right now if I hadn't read the books, I wouldn't be particularly impressed with Lan and that's a big issue to me.

[Spiritweaver1]

On 12/24/2021 at 11:00 AM, Cellardur said:

Slow start, but really strong middle with a terrible finale, which leaves a bad taste in the mouth. 

 

2. Don't deter from the story. Spend the first episode correcting the mistakes of the Season finale. Have Lioel find Rand and pass on the message that Matt needs him to find the dagger. Have Rand then join the hunt for the dagger separately with Lioel and maybe Hurin. This allows for Rands  story to pretty much be the same. Have the new Matt somehow turn up where Fain is, he was being drawn by the dagger, get beaten up and left for dead near the Border Lands. Have him be spotted by Perrin and then healed by Verin on their way on the Hunt. Have Verin say that the evil in the dagger has taken root too deeply and Morraine's healing was only temporary.  It needs more Aes Sedai working together to heal him and he will die without the dagger.

 

 

 

Well  I agree with your overall assessment of the show. However  I think they have gone too far off the books to ever come back.  The changes they made here quite frankly are completely without merit in my opinion.  

 

8 hours ago, WoTwasThat said:

 

This new story isn’t anywhere close to as good as the one RJ told. They’ve way overdone the female characters. Nyn and Eg in particular are way too powerful way too early. Feels like every episode had at least one totally implausible supergirl moment. The boys have all been relegated to what feels like secondary characters - they get plenty of screen time, but they’re so…. inconsequential. I understand the desire to “update” the material for a modern audience, but this is nuts. 

 

They neutered the gender dichotomy that was at the heart of WOT. The differences between Saidar and Saidin are never addressed - those words aren’t even mentioned in the series! Instead it’s all just “One Power” and some vague notion that “men can’t wield it without going mad.” The Dragon can be a man or woman… just changes things so much. That’s not a small change and it just feels like it devalues the conflict that made the books so interesting. 

 

The plot - the plan - was idiotic. The writers thought this whole “who is the Dragon” thing would be the central hook - ok I guess - and so the entire season Moraine is basically auditioning the five to see who is the Dragon, then takes the finalist on a suicide mission with zero training to face the Dark One?! That makes no sense. 

 

I agree with the above 100 percent.  Well said.   It is clear we have somebody on here who has access to the plot because their predictions were pretty spot on.   I could see this season ending if Rafe was trying to speed up the series so we could get it done in a 3 season mini-series but this is ridiculous.   There are comments in other threads about adapting fantasy to TV that are being proven correct.  I have tried to be positive here and on other threads  but this was terrible:  My chief complaints 15 min after finishing the series will be captured in the series thread.

 

Suffice it to say right this minute with the bitter, nasty taste of raw sheepstongue root in my mouth left by the last episode.  I have downgraded my rating to not sure if I am going to go on this journey any further.  This is turning into The Legend of Earthsea.  Yikes.

[Agitel]

I need to watch episode eight again. I walked away from seven feeling pretty positive. Eight left me a little disgruntled, but I may feel better on a rewatch. The changes with Rand actually parallel Veins of Gold and his final confrontation with the Dark One. The symmetry is obviously intentional.

 

I'm not sure how I feel about the seeming changes to LTT' motivations, and I feel like there's some missed opportunities. Changes aside, I really don't think the show ever hit any consistent stride, and I'm not satisfied by the script writing. I really hope that improves for season two.

[Agitel]

The word "saidin" was used in the conversation between Lews and Petra in the Old Tongue. Listen and you'll hear "saidin" said, even though the subtitles say "One Power."

Edited December 25, 2021 by Agitel

[Khuul]

I do enjoy the show so far, so I choose like it.

 

However, I don't really like some of the changes done so far. I feel it steps away too far from the heart of the story in the books. I do realize it needed to be done to fit a tv show but so far just to many things been changed in my book.

[WoTwasThat]

3 hours ago, Agitel said:

The word "saidin" was used in the conversation between Lews and Petra in the Old Tongue. Listen and you'll hear "saidin" said, even though the subtitles say "One Power."

Thats a good catch if true, but that’s an awfully thin reed….

 

Speaking of the LT scene, that coulda been great, but the scene was ruined because there was zero urgency. They were losing the war. The Aes Sedai we’re desperate. None of that is evinced or explained. Instead they could have been having a casual brunch. Also calling LT the Dragon Reborn? Dammit this is EASY stuff. How is this kinda stuff not getting caught during the writing process?

[Vambram]

Overall, from episode 1 - 8, I am giving season 1 a score of 7.5 

 

If they could have stayed closer to the books with some better script writing, then I wouldn't have minded at all the many changes that Rafe and company made for the TV show. 

 

Hopefully, they've learned from their mistakes, and there won't be another pandemic, and Season 2 will be a lot better than Season 1. 

 

I'm a huge Star Trek nerd, and each and every one of the Star Trek TV series had a nice improvement in Season 2 as compared to Season 1. 

[csmoptop]

The writers and people in charge of this Not The Wheel of Time TV show should be ashamed of themselves. They took a once in a lifetime opportunity to bring something wonderful to video and destroyed it with Hollywood nonsense. 

[DaddyFinn]

Thank You Rafe, the whole production team and cast for bringing us this awesome, interesting and intriquing show. It is not perfect but nothing can be. You left a huge amount of viewers wanting for more and the second season can't come soon enough. Thank You.

[Lethira the second]

Personally, I think they would have done better to have written their own original story and marketed it as such rather than trying to tie into a well-known, well loved book series.

 

I question how the budget was spent, the battle in episode 4 for example was reminiscent of something college students have produced.  I don't know enough about CGI to comment on it, the things I do understand -lighting, directing and acting were inconsistent across the board.  There were some well done moments that were undermined by a lot of misfires.  Rand and Egwene for example -their accents were all over the place.  This isn't an amatuer dramatic production, if someone is not capable of delivering a role they should never have been cast in the first place.

 

On the whole, the pacing was totally out of whack.  I see some people excusing it as lack of time.  That doesn't sit well with me.  There were characters from later books that could have been held back in order to give some space for the necessary characters to get on screen.  Ideas were put in, half developed and then abandoned.  The most obvious example for this is the White Tower.  They didn't need to get there so soon, the Aes Sedai politicking was rushed and poorly presented.  It took away from the story telling completely.

 

[raz311]

As a TV show in the Fantasy genre, up until the final episode, I would have given it a 7/10. That drops down to a 6/10 following the god awful S1 Finale. I do give them some leeway in having the Casting issues with Mat causing re-writes and Covid shut downs playing a big role in the final Episodes. But bad writing is still bad writing ?‍♂️

 

As an adaption of the WoT Books: 2/10. I mean they got most of the names right I guess????

 

Good points:

• Casting was good imo
• Acting is pretty good, especially with some of the newcomers. Not perfect but decent
• Some really nice looking scenic shots ala LotR
• Some really good Episodes. For me 7 and 4 were really good

Not So Good Points:

• Episode 8
• The writing on this show is bad. Like, really bad. The dialogue especially is super cringey. There is nearly zero dialogue taken from the books. It jumps out at me when I do hear it and I get surprised lol. I've read several times that Rafe is a massive WoT fan? Where??? Also, what is Sarah N's role in the show as a Book specialist? Cos the show only loosely follows the books. They need better talent in that writing room. Rafe is clearly average. I mean he personally wrote the 2 worst Eps in the series (1 and 8). 
• Editing is all over the place. Pacing is all over the place. It feels so rushed in places and super slow in others
• CGI is hit and miss. Sometimes it looks good, sometimes it's meh. I am not a fan of the depiction of Channeling still. 
• Too many changes for the sake of change that don't improve the story and in many cases make it worse. I'm all for an adaption and the constraints it brings (condensing the story, changing things here and there for example), but I find the many SMALL changes to be far more annoying than the large ones. I find myself saying "But why though???" several times an episode. 

Overall, I feel that Rafe as a rookie show runner is in way over his head and has the suits at Amazon running things. Can I do better? Of course not, but as a consumer, these are my thoughts. I think the 2 things that could save the show are more Episodes a Season and better writing. However I fear it's too late already. If this show makes it past Season 3, I will eat my words, because for now, I don't think it will. Happy to be proven wrong though.

[fra85uk]

I don't see how this can go beyond third Season and actually, as the last episode has a 6.2 ranking on Amazon-owned Ibmd, i don't imagine it going beyond the second.

[DaddyFinn]

1 hour ago, fra85uk said:

I don't see how this can go beyond third Season and actually, as the last episode has a 6.2 ranking on Amazon-owned Ibmd, i don't imagine it going beyond the second.

Angry hardcore book fans have just review bombed it worse than any other episode. It is obviously neither 10/10 nor 1/10