So... About Lan...

[WalterKohl]

It is also entirely possible that what we are seeing in the trailer is not what happens in show reality... it could be that they are feeling these emotions and they cut to what he is feeling on the inside but everyone else still sees the stoic outside face while he has this struggle internally and we get to see it as viewers of the scene not participants...  

[SinisterDeath]

1 hour ago, Agitel said:

 

Looks like the wrong link. This one goes to the interview: 

 

https://www.slashfilm.com/654425/4-things-we-learned-about-the-wheel-of-time-from-rosamund-pike-and-daniel-henney/

Thanks.

Somehow my phone, even though I was on the article, managed to copy the wrong link.

I blame their website, as it would randomly go to different articles. Lol

[Mnemosyne]

Rafe has mentioned in interviews that one of the challenges has been finding ways to portray characters' inner thoughts/feelings. I think this scene (my best guess – a funeral from New Spring or for the Aes Sedai burned at the stake by Whitecloaks) is a way of visually emphasizing that aspect of the bond.

[Maximillion]

Got to talk more about Lan..

 

So far :

 - not able to prevent Morraine getting injured (ultimately almost killed in episode 1)

- 'you've killed us all' - Shadar Logoth

 - not able to protect his surroundings at all and left himself completely open to attack in an area where a Fade and Trollocs had been... put at the mercy of Nynaeve's knife

- lets Moraine wander into an encounter with Whitecloaks because he couldn't scout ahead well enough to avoid them in a forest

- the butt of Warder jokes due to his lack of horsemanship

- praying and chatting with Nynaeve whilst Moiraine (and the whole camp) is in danger 

- gets himself 'killed' and is only alive because he was saved by Super Hero Nynaeve

- Moiraine almost killed again in episode 4 as he is helpless on the floor dying.

 

Not much of a warder, is he?

He doesn't even seem particularly skilled with the sword.

In fact, I think it's best Moiraine leaves him in the nearest village and hangs out with Nynaeve instead who is certain to protect her against anything.

 

Really don't know why Lan had to be made an incompetent fool.

 

 

Edited November 26, 2021 by Maximillion

[DojoToad]

9 minutes ago, Maximillion said:

Got to talk more about Lan..

 

So far :

 - not able to prevent Morraine getting injured (ultimately almost killed in episode 1)

- 'you've killed us all' - Shadar Logoth

 - not able to protect his surroundings at all and left himself completely open to attack in an area where a Fade and Trollocs had been... put at the mercy of Nynaeve's knife

- lets Moraine wander into an encounter with Whitecloaks because he couldn't;t scout ahead well enough to avoid them in a forest

- the butt of Warder jokes due to his lack of horsemanship

- praying and chatting with Nynaeve whilst Moiraine (and the whole camp) is in danger 

- gets himself 'killed' and is only alive because he was saved by Super Hero Nynaeve

- Moiraine almost killed again in episode 4 as he is helpless on the floor dying.

 

Not much of a warder, is he?

He doesn't even seem particularly skilled with the sword.

In fact, I think it's best Moiraine leaves him in the nearest village and hangs out with Nynaeve instead who is certain to protect her against anything.

 

Really don't know why Lan had to be made an incompetent fool.

 

 

Agreed on most.  And when he was going through forms with Steppin - lame!

[Maximillion]

1 minute ago, DojoToad said:

Agreed on most.  And when he was going through forms with Steppin - lame!

 

I'd forgotten about that - yes lame.  It seems he can't get the best of anyone.

They have replaced the Malkier King with the village idiot.

 

[KakitaOCU]

14 minutes ago, Maximillion said:

So far :

 - not able to prevent Morraine getting injured (ultimately almost killed in episode 1)

- 'you've killed us all' - Shadar Logoth

 - not able to protect his surroundings at all and left himself completely open to attack in an area where a Fade and Trollocs had been... put at the mercy of Nynaeve's knife

- lets Moraine wander into an encounter with Whitecloaks because he couldn't scout ahead well enough to avoid them in a forest

- the butt of Warder jokes due to his lack of horsemanship

- praying and chatting with Nynaeve whilst Moiraine (and the whole camp) is in danger 

- gets himself 'killed' and is only alive because he was saved by Super Hero Nynaeve

- Moiraine almost killed again in episode 4 as he is helpless on the floor dying.

 

So let's look at those points.

-One attack got through to Moraine out of tens if not hundreds.
 

-She was against Shadar Logoth in the books too, not sure how this is significant as a "Weakness" to Lan.

-Which attack is this?  Also, no, Nynaeve puts a knife and then he pretty much is never concerned about her.

-It's as if he's a human who can only be in one place at a time...

-Is the butt of a single joke amongst a group of people on similar levels of bad assery. 

-Moraine wasn't in danger though?  They hear yelling, immediately go, and show up to find there's an attack coming, not one there yet.

-Yes, why couldn't he dodge and block every bit of shrapnel that came unexpectedly.  If you want to go that route, why didn't a single sister restrain Stepin?

-Again, exactly how does a single body block numerous shrapnel in all directions at once?  He moves forward and gets hit a split second after Moraine did.  Is your expectation that he can teleport and move like Ichigo in Bankai?

[Maximillion]

6 minutes ago, KakitaOCU said:

So let's look at those points.

-One attack got through to Moraine out of tens if not hundreds.
 

-She was against Shadar Logoth in the books too, not sure how this is significant as a "Weakness" to Lan.

-Which attack is this?  Also, no, Nynaeve puts a knife and then he pretty much is never concerned about her.

-It's as if he's a human who can only be in one place at a time...

-Is the butt of a single joke amongst a group of people on similar levels of bad assery. 

-Moraine wasn't in danger though?  They hear yelling, immediately go, and show up to find there's an attack coming, not one there yet.

-Yes, why couldn't he dodge and block every bit of shrapnel that came unexpectedly.  If you want to go that route, why didn't a single sister restrain Stepin?

-Again, exactly how does a single body block numerous shrapnel in all directions at once?  He moves forward and gets hit a split second after Moraine did.  Is your expectation that he can teleport and move like Ichigo in Bankai?

 

 

4 episodes in and the mighty Lan is a complete failure who can't even get one thing right.

 

The point is he has done NOTHING that shows him as an outstanding warder.  Nothing.

He's been a lost and vulnerable soul about as useful as a chocolate teapot.

 

He's not had a single moment in the series to show what he is in the books.

We're close to seeing him bawling his eyes out too.

 

By the end of the season he'll be a gibbering wreck.

Maybe Nynaeve can comfort him and tell him she'll protect him.

 

 

 

Edited November 26, 2021 by Maximillion

[KakitaOCU]

1 minute ago, Maximillion said:

 

 

4 episodes in and the mighty Lan is a complete failure who can't even get one thing right.

 

The point is he has done NOTHING that shows him as an outstanding warder.  Nothing.

He's been a lost and vulnerable soul about as useful as a chocolate teapot.

 

He's not had a single moment in the series to show what he is in the books.

We're close to seeing him bawling his eyes out too.

 

By the end of the season he'll be a gibbering wreck.

Maybe Nynaeve can comfort him and tell him she'll protect him.

 

 

 

Yes, I get that that's how you feel about it?  But you've shown nothing that actually backs that up.

4 episodes in and I see Lan as a strong and good character who's doing everything he can but has the limitations of being a single human.

The fact that I offered counterpoint to each of your stated weaknesses and instead of addressing or discussing any of them you jumped to more generic statements really suggests this is more that you really did expect Lan to be Bankai Ichigo for speed and ability.

[Maximillion]

1 hour ago, KakitaOCU said:

Yes, I get that that's how you feel about it?  But you've shown nothing that actually backs that up.

4 episodes in and I see Lan as a strong and good character who's doing everything he can but has the limitations of being a single human.

The fact that I offered counterpoint to each of your stated weaknesses and instead of addressing or discussing any of them you jumped to more generic statements really suggests this is more that you really did expect Lan to be Bankai Ichigo for speed and ability.

 

 

I didn't answer your points because they is ALWAYS an explanation available for why he COULDN'T do something.

The point is that he is a serial up in the TV show.

By the end of the season his litany of screw ups looks like it will be so long you might have to repeat a few of your 'yeah buts'.

 

Lan is NOTHING like the Lan in the books.

 

My main question is why they made him such a failure.

 

 

[KakitaOCU]

10 hours ago, Maximillion said:

 

 

I didn't answer your points because they is ALWAYS an explanation available for why he COULDN'T do something.

The point is that he is a serial up in the TV show....

...My main question is why they made him such a failure.

 

 

If there's a logical explanation then it's not a failure?

That's my issue, I don't see this serial  up you speak of.  It's just not there and nothing you've said suggests it.  When asked to discuss further you just jump straight to "He's bad" without justification.

Again, I get that in your mind Lan is supposed to be faster than sound, unbeatable by any living being and never wrong ever under any circumstances, but that's not the character in the books.

I get it, when I was younger Mat was my favorite character and I would endlessly explain away or ignore his weaknesses and mess ups because in my mind he was this super cool, never losing unbeatable hero.  But the fact that he's not doesn't change the actual story or character.

Edited November 27, 2021 by CaddySedai

[MasterAblar]

30 minutes ago, KakitaOCU said:

Is your expectation that he can teleport and move like Ichigo in Bankai?

 

Who do I need to bribe to make this happen? I have money.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't

Edited November 26, 2021 by MasterAblar

[KakitaOCU]

Just now, MasterAblar said:

 

Who do I need to bribe to make this happen?

Would be cool.  I've always been curious how they'd handle it, I assume like in the Flash.   

That said, if Lan is suddenly faster than light, what's there left for anyone else to do?  ?

[MasterAblar]

1 minute ago, KakitaOCU said:

Would be cool.  I've always been curious how they'd handle it, I assume like in the Flash.   

That said, if Lan is suddenly faster than light, what's there left for anyone else to do?  ?

 

Drool? I'm gonna say drool. 

[Maximillion]

9 minutes ago, KakitaOCU said:

If there's a logical explanation then it's not a failure?

That's my issue, I don't see this serial F*** up you speak of.  It's just not there and nothing you've said suggests it.  When asked to discuss further you just jump straight to "He's bad" without justification.

Again, I get that in your mind Lan is supposed to be faster than sound, unbeatable by any living being and never wrong ever under any circumstances, but that's not the character in the books.

I get it, when I was younger Mat was my favorite character and I would endlessly explain away or ignore his weaknesses and mess ups because in my mind he was this super cool, never losing unbeatable hero.  But the fact that he's not doesn't change the actual story or character.

 

 

Yes, regardless of logical explanation it is failure.

In any TV series you can position a character as a general failure - which is what they have done with Lan.

He's a 'if something can go wrong, it will go wrong' character in the TV show.

God forbid he could have ONE moment where he's useful.?

His character from the books has no resemblance to how the TV show has presented him.

 

 

 

 

 

[KakitaOCU]

35 minutes ago, Maximillion said:

 

 

Yes, regardless of logical explanation it is failure.

In any TV series you can position a character as a general failure - which is what they have done with Lan.

He's a 'if something can go wrong, it will go wrong' character in the TV show.

God forbid he could have ONE moment where he's useful.?

His character from the books has no resemblance to how the TV show has presented him.

 

 

 

 

 

So I have to ask.  And I really wish I didn't...

Why exactly are you posting if you're not interested or willing to actually discuss things?

I mean, I post things that agree or disagree with others, but I'm reading their responses, thinking about them, seeing if they change my mind or if there's something else that I didn't think of.

You're making statements, ignoring any response and repeating those statements.  Why bother?

[flinn]

 Lan is freaking awful. I am now hoping to see him die really soon and just move on from the atrocity he has become. He is the worst of the warders.

[Reader]

Double Dandelion in the Wind

 

Plucking the Low-Hanging Adam's Apple

 

(to be honest, I was only watching it frame by frame to see Tree Guy, I hope he's doing ok)

[Sabio]

30 minutes ago, Dead Warder said:

Personally, I wouldn't say he's the worst of the TV show Warders, I would state that Stepin took that title when he wrecklessly charged Logain (regardless of the pain he suffered from his bonded Aes Sedai's death) and put everyone in grave danger. Book form Warders were trained better than that but TV show Warders are a different breed. Lan and Stepin would've been depicted better if they sparred against each other instead of dancing through some LARP riddled katas.

 

Albeit, the Lan we've seen in these 4 episodes isn't the Lan we first read about in New Spring (chronologically speaking), when he stoically led his task force to the Anvil against the Aiel. Granted, no fighting took place but Robert Jordan in that opening chapter painted Lan as the true venerable King of Malkier.

It was a pretty weak rage, going by the book he should of pretty quickly went off in a rage.  Seemed more like mild anger.

[Sabio]

He discovered she died when he was outside fighting the few dozen Logain army.  In the books he should have run off in a blind rage into the army.  Gareth ran off into an oncoming army at the Last Battle as soon as he felt Siuan's death.  I just don't think they really got the warder rage down.  

[ArrylT]

No 2 people deal with grief exactly the same way.  

[king of nowhere]

8 hours ago, Maximillion said:

4 episodes in and the mighty Lan is a complete failure who can't even get one thing right.

 

The point is he has done NOTHING that shows him as an outstanding warder.  Nothing.

He's been a lost and vulnerable soul about as useful as a chocolate teapot.

 

He's not had a single moment in the series to show what he is in the books.

We're close to seeing him bawling his eyes out too.

 

dude, you are seriously overreacting and exaggerating your point.

he slew dozens of trollocs in the battle of emond field. that should be enough of a badass introduction if he never does anything relevant in the rest of the adaptation.

and by going in shadar logoth, he saved the party. unless you suggest that he could have faced all the trollocs by himself with moiraine incapacitated?

as for everything else, he hasn't failed at anything that anyone else would have done any better.

i would also point out that book! lan didn't fare well when he faced channelers either.

 

3 hours ago, Dead Warder said:

Lan and Stepin would've been depicted better if they sparred against each other instead of dancing through some LARP riddled katas.

 

and yet, the books are full of descriptions of warders training by doing katas. so, more complaining that the show is faithful to the books

[JenniferL]

Sometimes it’s hard to tell the difference between complaining and people making fun of the complainers. Likely you’ve seen how ridiculous people are being here. 

[Sabio]

I must say Nyn sneaking up and putting a knife to his throat seemed a bit much.  I can see her getting close and spying on them like in the book, but to get right near Lan like that and put a blade to his throat didn't make him seem like the top warder.

[RhienneAgain]

Apart from being vaguely right appearance-wise, show-Lan and book-Lan don't seem like the same person to me.

 

I'm finding it a bit jarring that some characters are kept the same in terms of personality (Moiraine, Rand, Perrin, etc.) while others like Lan seem unrecognisable.