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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

S1E3: A Place of Safety


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Did RJ ever state that the cycle is literally as repetitious as that - i.e. that the DO always counter-strikes with a taint on saidin that the next DR has to remove and which then creates the conditions for the DO's perfect re-sealing?

 

That said I'm sure that, regardless, DO considered the tainting a major victory, and perhaps even better than winning the war - but I'd always assumed that the DO just took advantage of the opportunity that presented itself rather than this being some pre-ordained step that he carefully orchestrated in advance.

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2 hours ago, Tim said:

Did RJ ever state that the cycle is literally as repetitious as that - i.e. that the DO always counter-strikes with a taint on saidin that the next DR has to remove and which then creates the conditions for the DO's perfect re-sealing?

 

That said I'm sure that, regardless, DO considered the tainting a major victory, and perhaps even better than winning the war - but I'd always assumed that the DO just took advantage of the opportunity that presented itself rather than this being some pre-ordained step that he carefully orchestrated in advance.

Basically? Yes he did.

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BRANDON FROM MISSION VIEJO

Mr. Jordan, It's fairly common knowledge that the Dark One was bound by the Creator outside of the Pattern at the moment of creation. Would it then be safe to assume, after concepts brought to light in the new release, that the world before the opening of the prison never knew true evil? If so, then was each age before the opening of the Age of Legends different facets of some utopia? As well, without major conflict between good and evil, what caused ages to pass? Thanks.

ROBERT JORDAN

Given that time is cyclic, you must assume that there is a time when the prison that holds the Dark One is whole and unbroken. There is a time when a hole is drilled into that prison and it is thus open to that degree. And there is a time when the opening has been patched in a make-shift manner. But following this line the cyclic nature of time means that we have at some time in the future inevitably a whole and unbroken prison again. Unless of course, the Dark One breaks free in which case all bets are off, kick over the table and run for the window.
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That’s the quote I remember - that the wheel cycles between no bore, a bore and a patched bore.

 

I don’t remember a quote from RJ that there is also a cycle of saidin being tainted and then untainted, and that the tainting of saidin is always an integral factor to whether the bore can be properly sealed (it would also seem odd to me for the DO to continue with the same saidin-tainting tactic each time, notwithstanding that apparently he doesn’t really learn from past mistakes). I’m not saying such a quote doesn't exist - just that I don’t remember it.

 

I had always assumed that the fight between the DO and the Dragon must always require a bore of some type, and its sealing (or patching), but that apart from that the specifics of what happens each time weren’t pre-ordained or required to repeat exactly.

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On 11/23/2021 at 9:08 AM, DaddyFinn said:

The show has English closed captions. Have you tried that? Did you miss Moiraine whispering "Siuan" in the forest when she was almost unconscious?


Rafe has hinted that they’ll really be “leaning into” one particular lesbian relationship that “was only hinted at” in the books. I sure as hell hope this isn’t it. I don’t remember any such hinting in the books. 

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36 minutes ago, Beidomon said:


Rafe has hinted that they’ll really be “leaning into” one particular lesbian relationship that “was only hinted at” in the books. I sure as hell hope this isn’t it. I don’t remember any such hinting in the books. 


Did you read New Spring? They were definitely lovers. 

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I really enjoyed this episode. Strongest so far. Would have liked it have seen the boys have at least one run in with a more sinister/ mysterious dark friend before meeting Dana just to set up the contrast. I didn’t like her knowing all the EF5 names. Ishy wasn’t that free with information. But I did like her explaining Ishy’s philosophy on joining the dark. Helps to show bad guys aren’t just one dimensional. I also like the horror aspect of the dreams. Works much better on screen than the boys having a convo with a red eyed dude in front of a fireplace.

Edited by Whittle
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This Episode was the best of the 3 and the first I will rate above average.

The Rand and Matt plotline was excellently done. Barney Harris is my opinion the best actor of th 3 boys and I am sad to see him go. He really shone in this episode.

The Dana plotline was intriguing and I like the twist on the Four Kings plotline. As well as the worldbuilding with Aiel.

Lan and Nyanave was intriguing to watch and it ends with a fascinating cliffhanger.

 

Now for the negative

Perrin and Egwene storyline feels slow and weak.

Thom singing sucked

 

Overall the Episode is a 6.5/10 for me

 

This episode more than any has made it very clear to me that the WHOLE season should have been released in 1 go.The Pacing just isnt fast enought for weekly. Or maybe they release in baches of 3 like Arcane

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14 minutes ago, LordyLord said:

I know. And i think its a mistake. The series is written in a way that screams ''Binge me'' not ''Watch me weekly''

 

This may be scheduling mojo based on analytics.   Release the first batch of three to get early adopters invested.  Maybe some holiday talk around Thanksgiving.   A slow drip of episodes until Christmas can help build interest until Christmas with a natural binge window between Christmas and New Years when a lot of people are on vacation.  It can make sense from a US-market perspective.

 

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Releasing weekly keeps people talking about it and keeps people coming to back to Amazon and seeing their product ads. I would think Amazon's tactics could potentially be a lot different than any other streaming service. They are not just making money off of TV and movies.

And mistake or not I'm glad they did it. Even though part of me wants to watch it all now, it's nice to theorize about what's going to happen next each week.

Edited by Deadsy
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On 11/23/2021 at 8:26 PM, Tim said:

Did RJ ever state that the cycle is literally as repetitious as that - i.e. that the DO always counter-strikes with a taint on saidin that the next DR has to remove and which then creates the conditions for the DO's perfect re-sealing?

 

That said I'm sure that, regardless, DO considered the tainting a major victory, and perhaps even better than winning the war - but I'd always assumed that the DO just took advantage of the opportunity that presented itself rather than this being some pre-ordained step that he carefully orchestrated in advance.

 It is mostly my own theory, but it holds up.

 

 Lets start with how to properly seal the bore.. we know it requires all 3 powers.

 In order for the bore to be patched, one (or two) of those have to be missing.

 

 So let's go through those scenarios.

 

 1. Men without women and true power*, men get tainted.

 2. Men with women without true power*, both get tainted.

 3. Women without men and true power*, women get tainted.

 

 To avoid the taint, they would have to use the true source as the buffer. So highly unlikely that the Dragon would have access to the true source that there is really no point in going into all the reasons why not.

 

 

 Now we get into the DR, who grows up in the age of "chaos", where they would grow up uneducated, just coming into their powers, and only 2-3 years to "conquer the world" prepare for the last battle, and learn everything necessary to make it happen. The only way that is possible is access to the memories of the previous Dragon. The DR gets that through the madness caused by the taint. Now you can say, but other ways, but, we go back to how the patch was made. One of the powers had to be missing which causes the backlash, which causes the taint, which continues the cycle.

 

 

Edited by flinn
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1 hour ago, flinn said:

 It is mostly my own theory, but it holds up.

 

 Lets start with how to properly seal the bore.. we know it requires all 3 powers.

 In order for the bore to be patched, one (or two) of those have to be missing.

 

 So let's go through those scenarios.

 

 1. Men without women and true source, men get tainted.

 2. Men with women without true source, both get tainted.

 3. Women without men and true source, women get tainted.

 

 To avoid the taint, they would have to use the true source as the buffer. So highly unlikely that the Dragon would have access to the true source that really not point in going into all the reasons why not.

 

 

 Now we get into the DR, who grows up in the age of "chaos", where they would grow up uneducated, just coming into their powers, and only 2-3 years to "conquer the world" prepare for the last battle, and learn everything necessary to make it happen. The only way that is possible is access to the memories of the previous Dragon. The DR gets that through the madness caused by the taint. Now you can say, but other ways, but, we go back to how the patch was made. One of the powers had to be missing which causes the backlash, which causes the taint, which continues the cycle.

 

 

 

 

I think you meant true power in your list

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Ok, I want to talk about Rands joke..

 

On the record, I thought it was funny. And than I thought it was funnier considering Rand isn't really funny in the books - to begin with he's to innocent and serious and than.. well you know.

I got another laugh from Matt's response kinda echoing my thoughts.

 

"So you're funny now? Well that's a new wrinkle."

 

All in all I like this scene and their banter, love Rands smile after the joke cause he knew poor Matt got totally burned. 

 

Now I'm thinking we should take Matt seriously here. He's telling us this is odd behaviour for Rand, and looking at the next scene Rand is kind of... I don't know how to say it.. happy / excited / Jovial? 

Considering he's in an unknown town that really doesn't look.. safe, he's a bit cavilere. On top of him making fun of poor Matt losing his dosh.

 

I'm thinking we may be seeing some subtle early channeling affects, I'm guessing due to helping the Divine Bela which doesn't really happen on-screen in the books either. I also feel Moraine was about to fix that last horse before Lan said "tired, bad..".

 

What do we think guys, am I touched by The Dragon?

Edited by A Memory Of Why
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On 12/12/2021 at 6:49 PM, Ralph said:

Just rewatching and I'm pretty sure the man who bumps into Mat in the Inn (named actor in the xray) actually steals Mat's purse, and Thom steals it back. 

 

Focus on him again when Thom holds up the purse

 

I didn't notice this first time round

Uhh. I thought this was obvious to everyone that this is precisely what happened...

I don't mean that with any malicious intent. It's just this was intuitively obvious to me the first (and only time) I watched that episode... I wonder if this could be why some people are so mad at Thom...

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On 11/24/2021 at 2:55 PM, Tim said:

That’s the quote I remember - that the wheel cycles between no bore, a bore and a patched bore.

 

I don’t remember a quote from RJ that there is also a cycle of saidin being tainted and then untainted, and that the tainting of saidin is always an integral factor to whether the bore can be properly sealed (it would also seem odd to me for the DO to continue with the same saidin-tainting tactic each time, notwithstanding that apparently he doesn’t really learn from past mistakes). I’m not saying such a quote doesn't exist - just that I don’t remember it.

 

I had always assumed that the fight between the DO and the Dragon must always require a bore of some type, and its sealing (or patching), but that apart from that the specifics of what happens each time weren’t pre-ordained or required to repeat exactly.

Only certain things are preordained.  The world must forget the DO exists so one day they will sense something and drill into his prison.  A patch gets placed and then everyone waits for the pattern to spin LTT back out for the last battle.  The DO really has no options, he can't free himself and has to wait for the hole to get big enough for him to escape.  When LTT shows up to patch the hole the DO can do nothing or counter strike and taint the male half.  At least tainting the Male half will cause alot of chaos.

Edited by Sabio
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