Trailer Drops Tomorrow

[Elder_Haman]

22 minutes ago, Guire said:

My speculation is that he is going to be some kind of amalgam of Elyas and other warders.

I like this theory a lot. It makes sense and would seem a better use of a great actor like Franzen, than sort of a one-and-done suicide arc. (Though I think that is him attacking Logain with the double-axed leap. That might not end well for him...)

[Guire]

In looking at scene with double axe leap frame by frame, what he is leaping at looks trapped in air.  Its an odd scene.  I was hoping someone would dissect it.  Looks almost underground.  Woman in back ground is hard to id but looks like wearing blue.  Maybe his first Aes Sedai that dies. Logain killing her would definitely create some big tension between him and a Warder close to EF5.

[flinn]

1 hour ago, Guire said:

In looking at scene with double axe leap frame by frame, what he is leaping at looks trapped in air.  Its an odd scene.  I was hoping someone would dissect it.  Looks almost underground.  Woman in back ground is hard to id but looks like wearing blue.  Maybe his first Aes Sedai that dies. Logain killing her would definitely create some big tension between him and a Warder close to EF5.

 

 That is what I think. Logain blasts out of the cage, kills the Aes Sedai. Morrainne and friends recapture him, while held in a shield and flows of air.. the enraged warder rushes for the kill, all else be damned.

[lt;(^-^)gt;]

Looking at all the shots of the actor with the double axes, I think he's a warder whose Aes Sedai is killed by Logain. Combining his character with Elyas would be a bold potential move but I don't think they'll do that, because I feel that story is much more engaging, and also neater, if we see Perrin struggle through it instead of a minor character.

 

I think they'll use that warder to show how amazing the bond is, and what happens if the Aes Sedai dies. This will help with Lan's character development, as well as Moiraine's and Nynaeve's relationships with him. It seems clear to me from the trailer that those 3 will meet up with the Logain caravan.

[Sirkassad]

On 9/3/2021 at 3:22 AM, Beidomon said:

So in the opening shot, Egwene either has a massive mole on her nose or a third nostril. Then Nynaeve says “be strong” in an accent that’s gonna take a lot of getting used to for a TR native, and shoves Eg off a cliff. Huh.

 

Then there’s some dude crying over a ring and Eg coming up from a pool of paint. Huh. Not real excited so far. 
 

White Tower is super small. Maybe Rafe didn’t want it to be too phallic?

 

Moraine says there’s a “power inside you.” She didn’t say that in the books did she? I mean, it’s not a “power inside” anybody. 
 

Eg and Rand are definitely having sex. That’s a new development. 
 

Maybe my biggest concern is that all the characters look a little too clean. A little too YA. A little too Twilighty. No? It doesn’t look gritty enough. My first thought when I saw the Aes Sedai was “this kinda looks like that shitty Wrinkle in Time movie.” We’re a long way away from GOT, that’s for sure. 

 

Everything else looks pretty good. The fade kicks ass. The trollocs look good. The weaving is just regular old “magic wavy lines” special effects but that’s fine, I guess. We’re gonna see plenty of it in Winternight.

 

 

You said everything I was thinking.  I don't claim to be a WoT expert, but this looks very YA and tries so hard to check all the diversity boxes; going out of its way to make sure nobody feels excluded.  GoT checked diversity boxes without trying to check diversity boxes.  GoT had no boundaries and pushed the envelope; and lets be honest - that's why everyone loved it.  The WoT show should appeal to Shadow and Bones fans, and it has a rating of TV14, which tells me it's too graphic for Disney, but not nearly graphic enough for HBO.  Needless to say the trailer didn't wow me.

[Agitel]

What does "not nearly graphic enough" mean? Because if it's along the lines of the show needing literal "T&A executives" like HBO's GOT had, I'm going to be very depressed that those executives were right. 

[DojoToad]

I'm noticing more each time I watch it based on the comments both negative and positive.  Biggest disappointment for me is the White Tower's squat appearance - that certainly won't ruin the show for me.  Color saturation looks fine for me - bright and full when the lighting calls for it and more muted as the light fades/fails or as perspective lengthens, just as in life. 

 

Changes that I think are improvements are Egwene/Rand's more carnal relationship (someone mentioned raising the stakes and I agree), Logain's expanded role and his feral power, the fades design - not at all what I was expecting but awesome.

 

After much pessimism on my part through much of this year, I am truly excited for release and my expectations are rising.  We can see many differences between novel and show already, and there will be more to come, but I'm finally believing that they can both be incredible in their own right.  Differences don't have to mean better or worse, they can just be different.

[Guest Wolfbrother31]

22 hours ago, lt;(^-^)gt; said:

yeah I also enjoyed watching Greene break it down. I kinda disagree with him on the lighting, I think darkness is a tool to be used sparingly in a show, and one of my biggest criticisms of modern fantasy shows is that they're too dark. I love the colors and vibrancy, and I'm sure it will get dark when it needs to like in Shadar Logoth.

 

Totally agree. I loved the bright colors and lighting & didn't take that as "YA" at all. Absolutely HATE when it's too dark to see what's going on. 

[Elder_Haman]

3 hours ago, Sirkassad said:

GoT had no boundaries and pushed the envelope; and lets be honest - that's why everyone loved it.  The WoT show should appeal to Shadow and Bones fans, and it has a rating of TV14, which tells me it's too graphic for Disney, but not nearly graphic enough for HBO.

But why does Wheel of Time need to be super graphic? Bonus points if you can give a coherent answer that doesn't reference Dumai's Wells.

[Guire]

The cultural nudity and near nudity, horror elements, battles, and adult emotional content should be enough to get it to TV MA.  Shooting a grohlm in the face, Dra Kar soul stealing, and Rand trying to reanimate a dead child while losing his mind are pretty adult if done well. 

[Rose]

All of those things could also work in YA. Not saying WoT is YA (the category didn't even exist back then) but anyone who thinks YA can't be dark and gritty and tackle tough topics hasn't read much YA fantasy in recent years. 

[Guire]

Someone mentioned show being TV 14.  If that rating stays as series expands I think they will have to mute content.  I agree YA didn't exist at time and can be dark.  

[Rose]

I see what you mean. It's possible they'll change the rating as the story goes on.

[Guest Wolfbrother31]

31 minutes ago, Guire said:

The cultural nudity and near nudity, horror elements, battles, and adult emotional content should be enough to get it to TV MA.  Shooting a grohlm in the face, Dra Kar soul stealing, and Rand trying to reanimate a dead child while losing his mind are pretty adult if done well. 

 

To give you a frame of reference though - Amazon rates GoT S1 as TV-14. At least someone in the Dusty Wheel chat claimed that.

 

And Rafe specifically said that WoT was not YA. Which is the best thing I've heard from him. 

 

So I'm guessing WoT is very adult in content but it won't be like the Witcher or the Boys. Which I think is awesome. I'll be very pleased if they avoid GoT style nudity and gore but still have frightening scenes and implied sex scenes and stuff. 

 

The trailer exceeded my expectations by 150% and I'm hyping it to all my non-WoT fans. Cause I think it'll be what Rafe has suggested ... A fantasy happy medium between LoTR and GoT.

 

Nvm, I looked it up and that person was wrong... It's 18+ and X-Rated on Amazon Prime*

Edited September 4, 2021 by Wolfbrother31
Correct information

[Guire]

My wife just started GoT.  No way that first season was less than TV MA.  I hope WoT keeps adult story telling elements without trying to add skinamax scenes just for clicks.

[Guest Wolfbrother31]

26 minutes ago, Guire said:

My wife just started GoT.  No way that first season was less than TV MA.  I hope WoT keeps adult story telling elements without trying to add skinamax scenes just for clicks.

 

Yeah. It was a claim on the Dusty Wheel chat that GoT was TV-14. They were definitely wrong. So I edited above. It's X-Ray & 18+

 

I hope WoT is closer to LoTR than GoT... Then it makes it more recommendable for families. Appeals to wider audience if it can be interesting to both Adults and Teens, hard-core fantasy fans and non-fans, families and nerds.  If WoT can be like LoTR and the later Harry Potter's... Ahhhhhhhhhhhh. I'd be so happy.

Edited September 4, 2021 by Wolfbrother31

[Elder_Haman]

43 minutes ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

If WoT can be like LoTR and the later Harry Potter's... Ahhhhhhhhhhhh. I'd be so happy.

I think there's room for "more adult than the last few Harry Potter movies" and "grittier than LotR" before you get to the Game of Thrones level of sex & violence.

 

Not to beat a dead horse, but again The Last Kingdom executes this well. That show has gore and sex/nudity, but it is used judiciously so as to maximize its impact on the storytelling. I really hope WoT can hit that sweet spot. 

Edited September 4, 2021 by Elder_Haman

[Guest Wolfbrother31]

1 hour ago, Elder_Haman said:

Not to beat a dead horse, but again The Last Kingdom executes this well. That show has gore and sex/nudity, but it is used judiciously so as to maximize its impact on the storytelling. I really hope WoT can hit that sweet spot. 

 

But even that, you're going to lose a lot of audience. I know you like the Last Kingdom - but in terms of popularity and being a cultural phenomenon [that I want WoT to be] - it comes nowhere close to LoTR or last Harry Potter movies [which I would argue - ARE the sweet spot of adult content and appealing to the masses/families and young adults]. 

 

So, I'm suuuuper pleased with the TV-14 rating. Tells me it'll probably be closer to LoTR than GoT. 

Edited September 4, 2021 by Wolfbrother31

[Elder_Haman]

11 minutes ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

I know you like the Last Kingdom - but in terms of popularity and being a cultural phenomenon [that I want WoT to be] - it comes nowhere close to LoTR or last Harry Potter movies

I think we are talking past one another. I agree that Last Kingdom doesn't have the same cultural heft. What I'm saying is that it has gore, sex and nudity that isn't gratuitous. And I do want WoT to be just a little bit more adult than LotR or Harry Potter.

[dssharp]

13 minutes ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

 

But even that, you're going to lose a lot of audience. I know you like the Last Kingdom - but in terms of popularity and being a cultural phenomenon [that I want WoT to be] - it comes nowhere close to LoTR or last Harry Potter movies [which I would argue - ARE the sweet spot of adult content and appealing to the masses/families and young adults]. 

 

So, I'm suuuuper pleased with the TV-14 rating. Tells me it'll probably be closer to LoTR than GoT. 

It’s a valid question as to which rating will bring the most fans. I read that in all the other countries it is listed as 16+, which is definitely more than TV14. So I think the jury is still out on what the final rating will be. 

[Agitel]

24 minutes ago, dssharp said:

It’s a valid question as to which rating will bring the most fans. I read that in all the other countries it is listed as 16+, which is definitely more than TV14. So I think the jury is still out on what the final rating will be. 

 

The show Vikings avoids nudity/sex while still having lots of violence. It's possible to have adult shows without needing to meet a "T&A" quota. GOT had literal execs assigned to it by HBO that told writers/directors to add more nudity and sex to it. The books did have more mature elements there, but GOT was just very gratuitous, at least (mostly) in the front half of the seasons.

[king of nowhere]

From this and other threads discussing the adult rating I get the terrible feeling that nowadays some producers are encouraged to put in some boobs in the trailer just to make the statement "this is not a kid's show". And that some viewers won't take seriously a trailer without boobs; "there's no gratuitous sex, it must be aimed at children".

This can't be a serious metric by which to judge a show

[Beidomon]

Some of the sex and nudity in GOT actually advanced the story. Some of it was gratuitous garbage. The bottom line is there were prostitutes and brothels and don’t forget the Dany / Drogo “honeymoon” that actually mattered to the story.

 

WOT doesn’t have that and WOTTV doesn’t need that. And I really hope they’re not going that route. WOTTV also doesn’t need any more gore than is in LOTR.

 

What WOTTV does need is to make the baddies badder, and to make all the characters richer. Not as flat. More complex. 
 

What WOTTV does not need is cheese. :49 - :54 of the trailer…. “that is [my] concern, dude.” Looks cheesy. Looks YA. Has nothing to with content and all about the way it looks.

 

If you put Twilight/Hunger Games/Harry Potter/Maze Runner Etc. on one end of the spectrum and GOT on the other, WOTTV needs to be closer to GOT. But that doesn’t mean it needs to be GOT or have GOT’s sex and nudity.

 

And this has nothing to do with “making scenes so dark I can’t see what’s going on.” Let’s just not make everyone look super sparkly/pretty all the time, either.

Edited September 4, 2021 by Beidomon

[Rose]

The clip you're concerned about is literally 5 seconds out of a 2-minute trailer. That's 4%. It doesn't really seem fair to extrapolate from that that the entire series is going to be cheesy and childish.

[DojoToad]

1 hour ago, Beidomon said:

What WOTTV does not need is cheese. :49 - :54 of the trailer…. “that is [my] concern, dude.” Looks cheesy. Looks YA. Has nothing to with content and all about the way it looks.

 

Probably my least favorite part of the trailer as well.  But it is not stopping me from watching the show.