The casting thread

[Dagon Thyne]

On 8/15/2019 at 7:02 PM, DemandredFO said:

Yeah that cast list of younger versions of todays stars(especially Affleck) doesn't strike as something a creator who loves his creation would have done.

Relistening to EotW now and I hope they keep the boys' thinking that their friend is really good with the ladies and not them. I'm also noticing the sheer amount of space that will be there because everything will be visual. Granted, I'm listening so I have no exact reference but I'm beginning to see how EotW could be done in five episodes. I also wonder if they'll make Egwene an only child because but for a single reference, they don't exist.

 

Well, for one, I am sure they will cut out the 10 weeks of riding around in the woods that basically filled up half the book before they all met up in Caemlyn.

 

I think that Winternight, the Road to Taren Ferry, and everything leading up to their ending up in Shodar Logoth will happen in the first episode.   And their arrival at Shadar Logoth, meeting Mordeth, fleeing the city and being separated will happen in episode 2, as will the Perrin and Egwene's meeting with Elyas, Rand, Mat and Thom's catching a ride on the Spray, and Nynaeve meeting up with Moiraine and Lan.

 

After that will an episode of them being separated...to give time for Rand's acrobatics on the Spray's mast, Mat sitting by himself jacking off to a dagger, and Thom  wanting to kill himself for even knowing either of them.  And of course Perrin, Elyas, and Egwene's time with the Tinkers, if they are gonna still have Arem, and all of that.  and everything else that happened, and that episode can end with the Fade attacking them at Whitebridge, and Thom's "death".

 

There is not reason at all to even have Rand and Mat's actual journey, unless you want to use it to introduce the idea that darkfriends can be anyone and live anywhere.  Because it was the first actual confirmation of darkfriends.  They were merely mentioned before this, but personally, I don't care.  I would just as soon have their first scenes be of them arriving at Caemlyn.   

Edited August 17, 2019 by Dagon Thyne

[Dagon Thyne]

Loial is the only character I see with heavy CGI.  The fades are gonna be mostly just makeup.  They said from the start that they want to do that.

[Dagon Thyne]

20 hours ago, DemandredFO said:

They can't now but the fact that Egwene had magical mystery sisters mentioned once and then never again, plus her almost understanding the old tongue, hints at Jordan toying with a different path for Egwene.

 

They could have one of her sisters end up as a Novice.  I'm surprised that one didn't anyway.   

[ferrasa]

Quote

Egwene had magical mystery sisters mentioned once and then never again,

 

According to the author: 'Elisa's face turned bright red. Very bright red.'

 

'Perrin blushed very red'

 

'Egwene cut in angrily. "Nynaeve says ..." She broke off, her cheeks turning pink,' ... 'Her face went redder, and she fell silent.'
'Egwene's face went scarlet to her eyebrows, and she spun away with a muttered, "Men!"'

'Egwene, whom he had grown up with. Now, except for her big dark eyes, she could almost have passed as an Aiel woman, and not only for her tanned face and hands.'

 

'Nynaeve's face paled'
'Her face and dress were even dirtier than Egwene's, and the same dark circles fined her eyes, though her hands, too, were clean.'

 

/See Hermione and her panda-face.../

'Abruptly Nynaeve buried her face in her cup. Rand's eyes widened. She was blushing. Nynaeve never showed herself even the least bit disconcerted. Angry, yes; outraged, often; but never out of countenance. But she was certainly red-cheeked now, and trying to hide in the wine.'
'Dark-eyed and slender, Nynaeve wore her hair in a fat braid''

 

/Her eyes are dark, but her skin is not./

[Carebear Sedai]

3 hours ago, ferrasa said:

 

'Nynaeve's face paled'
'Her face and dress were even dirtier than Egwene's, and the same dark circles fined her eyes, though her hands, too, were clean.'

 

/See Hermione and her panda-face.../

'Abruptly Nynaeve buried her face in her cup. Rand's eyes widened. She was blushing. Nynaeve never showed herself even the least bit disconcerted. Angry, yes; outraged, often; but never out of countenance. But she was certainly red-cheeked now, and trying to hide in the wine.'
'Dark-eyed and slender, Nynaeve wore her hair in a fat braid''

 

/Her eyes are dark, but her skin is not./

 

If you truly think someone with Zoe Robin’s complexion can’t blush red or go pale, I’m genuinely concerned. 

[Jaglover]

5 hours ago, Goathill said:

 

I've read both.

 

I've always thought WoT was darker and for that matter has more sex than GoT. The language just isn't as graphic.

 

There is lots of sex and lots of nudity. There is torture, rape and, graphic violence.

 

It doesn't get much darker than.       Asha'man kill! 

 

I wouldn't really agree there it is more to do with the reality of the world than acts of killing. Compare and contrast Arya's journey to Harrenhal with Nynaeve being able to reach Bearlon unmolested. 

 

One is brutal world based on the reality of medieval times and the other is a PG 13 world.   

[Zorlon]

5 hours ago, Carebear Sedai said:

 

If you truly think someone with Zoe Robin’s complexion can’t blush red or go pale, I’m genuinely concerned. 

It still doesn't work, for one thing everyone on that cast is far too light skinned, just about everyone in the Two Rivers is described as having a farmer's tan. And sure a few extra carrots a day and a week at the beach could fix that up lickity split, but I am very much getting the impression this wont be thought of.

 

Beyond that Mat is way too pale. The books often make a point of Rand having a lighter complexion than most in the Two Rivers, yet the guy they got for Mat is noticably lighter than Rand.

 

Worse, for the Two Rivers folk I do wish they had gotten actors who looked more alike. Its a small village which has been isolated for centuries, you gotta figure everyone is going to be at least 2nd or 3rd cousins with everyone else. After so many generations the only way to avoid that would be even more unthinkable.

 

I know these are minor things to get hung up on, but I do care about world building and attention to even such minor details would imply care will be taken with all aspects of the story.

Edited August 17, 2019 by Zorlon

[Goathill]

5 hours ago, Jaglover said:

 

I wouldn't really agree there it is more to do with the reality of the world than acts of killing. Compare and contrast Arya's journey to Harrenhal with Nynaeve being able to reach Bearlon unmolested. 

 

One is brutal world based on the reality of medieval times and the other is a PG 13 world.   

 

Arya journey to Harrenhal was in the middle of a war. Nynaeve passed through a couple of small villages in her own area in a time of peace. 

 

Once the war starts in WoT its just as brutal. Its that the POV characters in WoT are generally at the heads of armies or they are powerful (aes sedai). Tywin and Stannis did not worry about bandits on the roads.

[JakeSt4r]

6 hours ago, Jaglover said:

 

I wouldn't really agree there it is more to do with the reality of the world than acts of killing. Compare and contrast Arya's journey to Harrenhal with Nynaeve being able to reach Bearlon unmolested. 

 

One is brutal world based on the reality of medieval times and the other is a PG 13 world.   

PG13? Huh? 

 

WoT gets just as brutal, if not more so. Padan Fain on his own gives everyone in ASoIaF a run for their money, and that's not even mentioning half the stuff that the forsaken and shadowspawn do. The difference is ASoIaF ONLY has brutality, whereas WoT balances the brutality with humor, and happy moments. WoT has darkness, sex, and extremely brutal violence, but it doesn't center the entire story around those things like ASoIaF does. 

[Deadsy]

12 hours ago, Dagon Thyne said:

 

Well, for one, I am sure they will cut out the 10 weeks of riding around in the woods that basically filled up half the book before they all met up in Caemlyn.

 

I think that Winternight, the Road to Taren Ferry, and everything leading up to their ending up in Shodar Logoth will happen in the first episode.   And their arrival at Shadar Logoth, meeting Mordeth, fleeing the city and being separated will happen in episode 2, as will the Perrin and Egwene's meeting with Elyas, Rand, Mat and Thom's catching a ride on the Spray, and Nynaeve meeting up with Moiraine and Lan.

 

After that will an episode of them being separated...to give time for Rand's acrobatics on the Spray's mast, Mat sitting by himself jacking off to a dagger, and Thom  wanting to kill himself for even knowing either of them.  And of course Perrin, Elyas, and Egwene's time with the Tinkers, if they are gonna still have Arem, and all of that.  and everything else that happened, and that episode can end with the Fade attacking them at Whitebridge, and Thom's "death".

 

There is not reason at all to even have Rand and Mat's actual journey, unless you want to use it to introduce the idea that darkfriends can be anyone and live anywhere.  Because it was the first actual confirmation of darkfriends.  They were merely mentioned before this, but personally, I don't care.  I would just as soon have their first scenes be of them arriving at Caemlyn.   

 

 

I think guesses on how they'll plot out the episodes would make a great topic on its own. You should post it (if it hasn't already been done).

Edited August 17, 2019 by Deadsy

[CUBAREY]

On 8/15/2019 at 5:13 PM, JenniferL said:

I’m unaware of Robert Jordan ever specifying a cast list for his novels. That usually means it didn’t happen. 

No such list exists. However in 2014 his notes which given to the Universty of Charleston revealed that he based certain characters on well known actors. Egwene was based on an 18 year old Audrey Hepburn. Nyneave on a young Jacqueline Bisset and Perrin on a young Val Kilmer. He did not intend that this actors play the charcters in any future production instead he based his descriptions of the characters generally on how these actors looked.

 

 

"There is lots of sex and lots of nudity. There is torture, rape and, graphic violence."

 

All those things are obviusly in Wheel of Time but they are not dewscribed as graphically as they are in GOT. So I would only quibble with your use of the term "graphic violence. The question is will these events be mentioned in the TV series or will they be graphically depicted on screen. It should be noted that the use of sex in the GOT series was used extensively (especially in the first few seasons) as info dumps where characters which were either nude or simulating sex dropped a lot of information. It even got to the point that people began using the term sexposition to describe the scenes and their purpose.

[SinisterDeath]

4 hours ago, CUBAREY said:

No such list exists. However in 2014 his notes which given to the Universty of Charleston revealed that he based certain characters on well known actors. Egwene was based on an 18 year old Audrey Hepburn. Nyneave on a young Jacqueline Bisset and Perrin on a young Val Kilmer. He did not intend that this actors play the charcters in any future production instead he based his descriptions of the characters generally on how these actors looked.

Let's see a source on that?

All I've been able to dig up about this list, is that @Terez supposedly found this list buried among the notes RJ left to the Charleston University.
The Wordpress/Instagram post, which is a screenshot of a list posted to some forum, (that I can no longer find) has a source that links to Google+.

But as you may know (probably not) Google+  shutdown. So AFAIK there is no way to validate the source of that list, because the source-link is now dead. There is no way to validate that list, short of Terez where it came from.

Also something to note: Much of the stuff Terez found buried in the notes, wasn't even cannon. From what I've gathered, much of the notes were "what ifs", random plots/stories & ideas that were written but never committed to Cannon. I think I read one where Nyneave is Raped. One where Nyneave kills Moiraine.


Per the list above: None of the actors, look at all, how the characters are described.

Audrey Hepburn was 5'-7"
Egwene is 5'-3". If we go by the Perrin/Moiraine Heightists, Audrey was to Tall, even with movie magic and forced perspective.
Audrey was relatively pale.  Not even close to the spanish skin tone people are clamoring for. (She's British afterall!)

Jacqueline Bisset
5'-7" Tall
Nyneave is 5'-4".
Too tall yet again.
Bisset also has gray eyes. (or is it green, or blue? Either way, far too light)

Val Kilmer is 6'-0". Blue eyes, Blonde Hair.
Perrin is at least 6'-1", Dark Curly Hair, Dark Eyes.
Kilmer is clearly To short, his hair & eyes are to light, and his hair isn't curly enough to play Perrin.

Assuming RJ actually made the list, the most likely reason he wrote it, is that these are actors RJ knew, and liked. Many of them are people he grew up watching. He probably would have loved to see them play his characters, even if they looked nothing like them...

Here's the thing. Good actors can play characters they don't look anything like.
Some Actors are just meant to be certain characters, and they become the character, even if they don't look anything like what you expected that character to look like.

 

Nick Fury never used to look like Samuel L Jackson.
Now we can't picture Nick Fury as anyone BUT Samuel L Jackson.

Edited August 20, 2019 by SinisterDeath

[ferrasa]

A prediction: they will change Elayne's gender.

[Polskija]

This just came up on Twitter. It's written by a member of Team Jordan. 

[Polskija]

[SinisterDeath]

49 minutes ago, ferrasa said:

A prediction: they will change Elayne's gender.

Not a chance.

[MasterAblar]

Honestly I don’t know why they’re bothering to justify themselves. 

 

Just point out that skin color has literally zero importance in the scheme of he story and move on. Personally I think that careful reading of the books (particularly comparisons with other characters) suffices to deduce that they’re meant to be white, but it’s largely irrelevant. And I say that as someone who tends to be a bit of a purist who dislikes unnecessary changes from the source material.

 

Skin color changes nothing to the characters color, their motivations, their flaws, and so on. If these actors nail the characterization then who cares. 

 

In fact I think it’s a shame she’s saying she (Maria) got anything wrong. That was merely her impression of the characters from her reading of the books. That the series is going with character of a different skin color doesn’t mean she got it wrong, simply that their adaptation is going with something different.

Edited August 20, 2019 by MasterAblar

[MasterAblar]

1 hour ago, DemandredFO said:

I feel confident saying that for some people that isn't enough because after all, in their mind anyone not specifically said to be black, must be white. It isn't enough that they have Lord of the Rings where every single solitary person was white. For me, said many times before, I'm legally-blind so a fair number of black people I can't tell anyway.

 

To be fair you could argue that the reason Robert Jordan doesn’t really specify clearly their skin color is because he himself fell into the trap of not describing people of the same appearance as he as thoroughly as people of different skin color. Personally I think that’s the most likely “explanation”.

 

Regardless like I said above skin color has no impact whatsoever on the story so I think Robert Jordan would be mostly annoyed that people are focusing so hard on this point.

Edited August 20, 2019 by MasterAblar

[Deadsy]

5 hours ago, MasterAblar said:

Honestly I don’t know why they’re bothering to justify themselves. 

 

Just point out that skin color has literally zero importance in the scheme of he story and move on. Personally I think that careful reading of the books (particularly comparisons with other characters) suffices to deduce that they’re meant to be white, but it’s largely irrelevant. And I say that as someone who tends to be a bit of a purist who dislikes unnecessary changes from the source material.

 

Skin color changes nothing to the characters color, their motivations, their flaws, and so on. If these actors nail the characterization then who cares. 

 

In fact I think it’s a shame she’s saying she (Maria) got anything wrong. That was merely her impression of the characters from her reading of the books. That the series is going with character of a different skin color doesn’t mean she got it wrong, simply that their adaptation is going with something different.

 

This nails my feelings on it. I don't think anyone should feel guilty or think it's privilege thinking the characters are Caucasian, or argue that because some of the actors aren't Caucasian that the book characters MUST be non-Caucasian too and they were wrong all along. The books don't explicitly state either way, and there are several examples of RJ complaining about height and eye color and hair color in the artwork. He never complained about his main characters being whitewashed - I would think that would have pissed him off.

To me, it doesn't matter who they cast for the TV show as long as they nail the characterization, and I'm more excited about the show now than ever. But there's nothing wrong with merely thinking RJ intended those book characters to be Caucasian.

 

Where people go wrong is getting pissed off that the actors are not Caucasian or getting pissed off at people who interpret them as not Caucasian, or obsessing over it, or accusing people who think they're Caucasian of being racist just for thinking they're Caucasian.

 

Edited August 21, 2019 by Deadsy

[Beidomon]

It annoys me that the showrunners seem to be going out of their way to be #Woke. That bodes poorly for the series. They didn’t do it in GOT and I don’t know why they feel the need to do it here. These casting choices look more like WOT meets MTV.

 

I don’t really care if Perrin is black, btw. He has an honest, vulnerable face that fits the character. But Egwene and Nynaeve in particular look far too exotic. It’s ridiculous.

 

They really are going to screw this all up, aren’t they? Not that it should matter - we’ll always have the books - except that I was hoping a TV series would improve on some of the many shortcomings of the books. Well be lucky to get a second season at this rate. 

[Jaglover]

8 hours ago, MasterAblar said:

 

To be fair you could argue that the reason Robert Jordan doesn’t really specify clearly their skin color is because he himself fell into the trap of not describing people of the same appearance as he as thoroughly as people of different skin color. Personally I think that’s the most likely “explanation”.

 

Regardless like I said above skin color has no impact whatsoever on the story so I think Robert Jordan would be mostly annoyed that people are focusing so hard on this point.

 

As a firm supporter of Nyneave my main annoyance of the casting is that she looks nothing like her in any other respect either. The actress who plays Egwene is of mixed race and has the delicate features you would expect of her character from the books.

 

Nynaeve is also a very hard character to get right and probably needed someone of the calibre of who they selected for Morraine. 

 

By contrast the main physical impression you get of Perrin from the books. Is big guy with a beard and if the guy they selected is any good I doubt it will ruin Perrin for them on the show.

 

All the usual social media hysteria shouldn't hide what is important. Having actors who can credible portray their book characters.  

[MasterAblar]

4 hours ago, Beidomon said:

It annoys me that the showrunners seem to be going out of their way to be #Woke. That bodes poorly for the series. They didn’t do it in GOT and I don’t know why they feel the need to do it here. These casting choices look more like WOT meets MTV.

 

I don’t really care if Perrin is black, btw. He has an honest, vulnerable face that fits the character. But Egwene and Nynaeve in particular look far too exotic. It’s ridiculous.

 

They really are going to screw this all up, aren’t they? Not that it should matter - we’ll always have the books - except that I was hoping a TV series would improve on some of the many shortcomings of the books. Well be lucky to get a second season at this rate. 

 

I mean while I’m not bothered by the castings themselves, I am more annoyed by what is likely the reason for the cast being more diverse: Amazon believing that they need to inject that diversity into the main characters (and I find it hard to believe that the people behind this choice are completely unaware of the how the main characters are portrayed in the near totality of illustrations).

 

However I’d be cynical no matter what, because I always am for adaptations, knowing that sacrifices are inevitably going to happen. Usually I hope that these are done for the benefit of the story itself, and not out of a belief that the show needs to do some pandering to succeed.

 

As long as they don’t make actually consequential changes to the story, like for exemple making Egwene the dragon as someone mentioned (or even having Rand and Egwene share the role), then I’m not too bothered. Skin color and even sexuality for a lot of the characters isn’t too important. For exemple it makes no difference to me if the make Galad bisexual, or Dobraine  gay or whatever else that doesn’t actually interfere with the story being told as it was in the books.

 

3 hours ago, Jaglover said:

 

As a firm supporter of Nyneave my main annoyance of the casting is that she looks nothing like her in any other respect either. The actress who plays Egwene is of mixed race and has the delicate features you would expect of her character from the books.

 

Nynaeve is also a very hard character to get right and probably needed someone of the calibre of who they selected for Morraine. 

 

By contrast the main physical impression you get of Perrin from the books. Is big guy with a beard and if the guy they selected is any good I doubt it will ruin Perrin for them on the show.

 

All the usual social media hysteria shouldn't hide what is important. Having actors who can credible portray their book characters.  

 

Yeah my first impression of Egwene and Perrin was that skin tone aside, they definitely gave the characters look and are totally believable as those characters. Nyneave I wasn’t convinced about but other pictures I’ve seen make me think it should work.

[Dagon Thyne]

If you ask me, Rand is the one who should have a darker complexion, not Egwene and Nynaever.  He is half-Aiel, after all, and Aiel have a darker complexion, comparable to a people from the middle east.  And it's said numerous times that Rand could easily pass for a Aielman on looks alone.  

Edited August 21, 2019 by Dagon Thyne

[SinisterDeath]

35 minutes ago, Dagon Thyne said:

If you ask me, Rand is the one who should have a darker complexion, not Egwene and Nynaever.  He is half-Aiel, after all, and Aiel have a darker complexion, comparable to a people from the middle east.  And it's said numerous times that Rand could easily pass for a Aielman on looks alone.  

The Aiel live in the Desert, Rand did not. The Aiel are by nature pale, but nature put them in the desert so their skin naturally is tanner. Go back and read some character descriptions, Rand stands out both in hair/eyes, but also complexion. Not greatly (due to tanning), but enough.

 

Quote

The system of clan and sept is also one that is a parallel of old Scottish and Irish clans and septs. Jordan has said that he thought it would be fun to have the Aiel as a desert culture but with Irish heritage, thus the Aiel are physically as a people modeled After Irish people this is evident through their pale skin, and light hair and eyes. The Aiel are further connected to the Irish through the Tuatha'an.

Sauce: Wot.Fandom.Wiki

[solarz]

People get too hung up on skin tone. What bothers me a lot more is the fact that these people in no way looks like they're from the same small village that had been isolated from the world for 1000 years. It's not just their skin tone, but also their facial features that just screams they're from different parts of the world. The actor for Perrin also does not seem burly enough.

 

Of course, costume and makeup can go a long way toward rectifying the above, so I am perfectly happy to wait and see.