Discussion

[Nolder]

Dude even D&D never had a crackdown like this since I've been on the stie wtf is going on here?

[Turin Turambar]

Thanks Verb. I would say length of time out should be determined by severity of infraction, contrition of offender, and frequency of infractions.

 

That may not be much help. I would say minimum would have to be at least 1 game.

[Turin Turambar]

  On 6/16/2017 at 1:41 PM, Nolder said:

Dude even D&D never had a crackdown like this since I've been on the stie wtf is going on here?

*insert captain America "language" GIF*

 

Letting the small stuff slide is where it starts.

[Verbal32]

  On 6/16/2017 at 1:41 PM, Nolder said:

Dude even D&D never had a crackdown like this since I've been on the stie wtf is going on here?

 

I've probably threatened to permaban half of D&D at this point, and Ty has a good hold.  I'm not worried about them.

[DPR]

  On 6/16/2017 at 1:26 PM, Verbal32 said:

Going forward, any in-game issues are to be brought PRIVATELY to the game mod ASAP.  If the mod is able to handle at that point, and all parties are ok with that, then fine.  If not, then the mod needs to escalate this to me.  If I'm a player in that game and the information will mess up balance/whatever, then I'm ok with being replaced as needed, in that instance.  Otherwise, I expect it brought to me and I will handle.

 

If mods do not do that, and the issue festers within that game, then I'm not going to add that mod to the queue anymore.  If players don't obey either (1) the decision of the game mod, or (2) my decision after it is escalated to me, then I will place that player on the new usergroup and they will not be able to see the mafia board.

 

 

I'm open to ideas on how long such a "timeout" lasts, and how many strikes they are allowed before it becomes permanent.  Then again, if it comes to a need for a permanent removal, then they are in jeopardy of me just banning them from DM anyway.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thoughts?

 

 

How about a bullet list of grievances so that playstyles don't cross paths with infringement. 

[Verbal32]

I don't understand what you're getting at.

[DPR]

Just a quick bullet list that sums up the CoC with the penalty.

 

Name calling = 2 game ban - that sort of thing. And that's with the understanding that there is difference between somebody I know calling me a "overstuffed-drunken-lout-disaster" who is terrible at the game (which I don't take offense to) vs. calling a person they don't know "stupid" and hurting that person's feelings.

 

Basically, it works hand-in-hand with your system. If offense is taken, tell the mod. The mod will sort it. If they can't, it escalates to you. And if you have the crime and peanty posted, there really isn't much to argue - you just point to the post because fair is fair. 

 

Mods can link to post in the OP of each game so the there is no excuse. 

[Clovdyx]

I would venture to guess DPR is suggesting we make a list (not all inclusive) of what valid complaints are, and what is not. Someone shluld not be running to a mod or yourself because they don't like that I townread BFG for being exceptionally active and controlling a flow of dialogue, for example; that's a perfrctly acceptable course of action, and while it is fine to disagree with the conclusion, you have not been wronged by my stance. Yiu have not been wronged if I use your disagreement as incentive to push you. You haven't even been wronged if I try to pound youinto oblivion over it.

 

You have, however, been wronged if I tell you that you're stupid and don't know how to play for it. You, and the rest of the game, have been wronged if i refuse to lynch somebody because they are my friend.

[Clovdyx]

Cut.

[Shad_]

The CoC is extremely long, and people don't read long.  They refer to long after the fact to see if they really broke a rule or not.  If we aim to be proactive, I think it would serve us well to have a concise list of Mafia rules that everyone must R&U before signing up for future games.  Something short enough that they can realistically be expected to read it and not just blindly click I Agree like some terms of service wot.

 

The sort of thing many of us post at the start of games we mod already, but applicable to all games at all times.

[BFG]

  On 4/17/2011 at 5:58 PM, yoniy0 said:

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2a. Social Group Report Format. Social Group Reports are due by the 10th of each month. You may post them as early as you want, but have them posted by the 10th of each month. Posting a Group Report is much like a roll call each month and unless you are on an announced LOA, missing this deadline will be considered unannounced LOA. If the deadline of the 10th is missed a pm or email will be sent to the missing SGL. If no response is received, it may be considered job abandonment per the Community Rules.

 

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Membership

How many members do you currently have?

How many are active (this can be done through a roll call or your estimations)?

How many were purged in the month (this will just tell us how often you clean up your member list, it is not expected you clean your member lists each month)?

New members (hopefully you know how many new people joined your group in a given month)?

 

Activities/Discussions

 

What activities did your Social Group partake in or what discussions were the most popular? Mainly what did your Social Group do in the given month.

Raisings or Announcements - It is not important to list every single raising as many Social Groups have a great many in a month. It would be nice to inform us who moved into important positions in your Social Group though. Like Dwyn becoming Keeper or Caddy becoming a Capo. What other important Announcements do you have.

 

Upcoming Projects

 

We should all have at least something planned for the future of the Social Group. These could be upcoming planned discussions, activities, Social Group visits, etc.

 

Tweets: Two examples of tweets you posted from the DragonmountSoc Twitter account

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(Please note: All references to Staff boards include both the main Staff and the PSW staff boards.)

 

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1a. RP Group Leaders are expected to attend the monthly PSW Staff meetings on MSN. If you cannot attend, your AGL is welcome to attend in your place. Please notify the RP admins if this is the case.

 

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2a. RP Group Report Format. RP Group Reports are due by the 10th of each month. You may post them as early as you want, but have them posted by the 10th. Posting a RP Group Report is part of your RGL duties. If you can not make the deadline, please inform the RP Community Admin or RP Groups Admin. If the deadline of the 10th is missed a pm or email will be sent to the missing RGL. If no response is received, it may be considered job abandonment per the Community Rules.

 

RP Group reports are expected to follow a similar format, with all points acknowledged in their report.

 

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Membership

How many members do you currently have?

How many are active (this can be done through a roll call or your estimations)?

New members/Returning members?

 

Activities/Discussions

 

What did your RP Group achieve/do in the given month?

Raisings or Announcements. It would be nice to inform us who moved into important positions in your RP Group such as Staff.

What other important announcements or news do you have?

Were there any notable role plays during the month or major plotline role plays started/completed?

 

Upcoming Projects

 

We should all have at least something planned for the future of the RP Group. These could be upcoming planned role plays, major plot line role plays, inter-RP Group role plays, etc. You may also have updates regarding archiving or website projects.

3. RP Group Leaders are members of DM Staff. They act as representatives of the members of DM and therefore their input is vital in the decision making process. RP Group Leaders are expected to be actively engaged in discussions on the main DM Staff board as well as the PSW Staff boards. You are also encouraged to liaise and interact with your fellow GLs outside of Staff.

 

4. RP Group Leaders should act as role models to other DM members. It is encouraged for Staff to offer different viewpoints on subjects on the DM Staff board but once a decision is made it should be supported by staff outside the Staff board. RP Group Leaders (and AGLs in the case of the PSW Staff boards) are expected to maintain confidentiality and discretion at all times. Staff matters are not for public consumption. Any problems, issues or queries regarding PSW or general Staff decisions should be referred directly to the RP Community Admin or RP Groups Admin.

 

So I've spoilered the stuff that seems most irrelevant and highlighted things I think need editing to apply to mafia.

 

In order

 

Mention release of QTs without everyone agreeing, also prohibits role quoting etc, so people doing that are breaking the official CoC not just the games integrity

 

Expanded

 

First talk to mod then Verb(?)

 

Don't air things that are taken personally in thread. But need to emphasise that for game integrity mod has to initiate conversation

 

Obvious troll

 

Make mods more official, or something? At the moment it's just Verb

[BFG]

It's still too long, I'd take out the bits in blue (and any that other people think are important), expand, clarify as needed. Link to the official CoC and leave it at that?

[BFG]

  On 6/16/2017 at 1:26 PM, Verbal32 said:

Going forward, any in-game issues are to be brought PRIVATELY to the game mod ASAP.  If the mod is able to handle at that point, and all parties are ok with that, then fine.  If not, then the mod needs to escalate this to me.  If I'm a player in that game and the information will mess up balance/whatever, then I'm ok with being replaced as needed, in that instance.  Otherwise, I expect it brought to me and I will handle.

 

If mods do not do that, and the issue festers within that game, then I'm not going to add that mod to the queue anymore.  If players don't obey either (1) the decision of the game mod, or (2) my decision after it is escalated to me, then I will place that player on the new usergroup and they will not be able to see the mafia board.

 

 

I'm open to ideas on how long such a "timeout" lasts, and how many strikes they are allowed before it becomes permanent.  Then again, if it comes to a need for a permanent removal, then they are in jeopardy of me just banning them from DM anyway.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thoughts?

Sounds good :)

[BFG]

  On 6/16/2017 at 1:30 PM, Verbal32 said:

 

  On 6/16/2017 at 10:18 AM, BFG said:

We have this conversation every few months and I'm fed up of it.

 

Agreed, and I'm mostly to blame for that.  I apologize to everybody for stepping back and thinking it would solve itself - that was dumb of me to think.

 

All I can say is that I promise not to abandon the board again.

 

it's on us players not you lol

[BFG]

Think DPRs idea is good

 

[Sooh]

I like Verb's stance here. I think a lot of the "is this crossing the line" stuff could be expanded on like DPR, Chris and BFG (at least) have been saying. At the same time I trust Verb's discretion and don't think he'll ban people without thinking there's a serious offense.

 

Bottom line is, if the game mod and/or site mod intervenes and tells you you're crossing the line, you probably are. Take some time, cool off, if you still feel unfairly treated, talk it over with them, but not in a hostile tone. Explaining how you feel is fine. Telling someone they are idiots for not understanding how you feel is not. 

[Shad_]

Also worth noting that a lot of the worst fighting I've seen has happened post-game, often when most of the players were not even aware that a conflict was brooding in the background because the moderator handled it well while it was under their jurisdiction.  I don't think D&D level leniency should apply to posts made outside of an active game, and I would generally be much more strict about rule enforcement in that setting.  If players need to vent at each other post-game they should be expected to take it to PM.

[Shad_]

It's difficult to think of precise rules for an inherently subjective topic.  Obviously there are extremes of behavior that can result in immediate removal.  In most situations no one is at 'fault' and a clash of personality is simply creating a very uncomfortable and unpleasant thread state.  The damage is already being done whether or not it breaks into a fairly objective rules violation.  Destigmatize substitutions and encourage players to replace without penalty if it's just not working out this game?

[Songstress]

I don't know how easy it would be for Verb to create a mafia mod user group and move people in and out of it when they have an active game.

 

Game mods (and potentially comods, if the situation warrants) would benefit from being able to pin their threads, lock the thread when posting is not allowed (and especially in the case of needing a pause to consult with another mod or Verbal on a thorny issue), and potentially edit player posts if they break the CoC instead of waiting for the player to respond to a mod request.

 

Just a thought for consideration.

[Eldrick4221]

  On 6/16/2017 at 1:26 PM, Verbal32 said:

Going forward, any in-game issues are to be brought PRIVATELY to the game mod ASAP.  If the mod is able to handle at that point, and all parties are ok with that, then fine.  If not, then the mod needs to escalate this to me.  If I'm a player in that game and the information will mess up balance/whatever, then I'm ok with being replaced as needed, in that instance.  Otherwise, I expect it brought to me and I will handle.

 

If mods do not do that, and the issue festers within that game, then I'm not going to add that mod to the queue anymore.  If players don't obey either (1) the decision of the game mod, or (2) my decision after it is escalated to me, then I will place that player on the new usergroup and they will not be able to see the mafia board.

 

 

I'm open to ideas on how long such a "timeout" lasts, and how many strikes they are allowed before it becomes permanent.  Then again, if it comes to a need for a permanent removal, then they are in jeopardy of me just banning them from DM anyway.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thoughts?

Added this to my sig so it's available in any game I play.

[Nolder]

I haven't been following the conversation closely but just a note -

 

For myself personally, when I've gotten into conflicts with other people here in the past I haven't always wanted a game mod to take care of the problem.

In some cases they have been very good friends with the person I was having conflict with and in other cases I just felt like the problem was already above their head and required someone with actual authority on DM. I have also felt in over my head as a mod once or twice.

 

What I'm trying to say is that it might be a bad idea to make it a hard rule to go to the game mod first to fix a problem and then an admin.

A game mod usually has the priority of preserving their game and may try to downplay or make some sort of deal between two people whereas I don't think an admin would have that perspective.

 

So maybe word it as a suggestion or add a note or something? Just a thought.

[Eldrick4221]

  On 6/17/2017 at 12:18 PM, Nolder said:

I haven't been following the conversation closely but just a note -

 

For myself personally, when I've gotten into conflicts with other people here in the past I haven't always wanted a game mod to take care of the problem.

In some cases they have been very good friends with the person I was having conflict with and in other cases I just felt like the problem was already above their head and required someone with actual authority on DM. I have also felt in over my head as a mod once or twice.

 

What I'm trying to say is that it might be a bad idea to make it a hard rule to go to the game mod first to fix a problem and then an admin.

A game mod usually has the priority of preserving their game and may try to downplay or make some sort of deal between two people whereas I don't think an admin would have that perspective.

 

So maybe word it as a suggestion or add a note or something? Just a thought.

It would also be simple to tell the mod you want to take it higher. I don't think any mod would be opposed to that.

[Eldrick4221]

Or tell the mod that you want to handle it if you feel its not worth escalating.