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Adella

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Posted

So, Verb suggested to me that maybe a public discussion is in order. This is not the time or place to get mad at anyone, complain, or any other negative stuff. I am calling for a discussion on what people think would be fair to do to help prevent issues like what has come up in the last game.

 

So I want to start by asking what do you think went wrong? What were the general actions that we would like to avoid in the future? And what do you think would be a fair way to avoid these things in the future?

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Posted

Vote on a player code of conduct (and enforce it)

 

Move the discussion on from being about playstyle clash (please), because with a few exceptions that hasn't been an issue for a long time. It's generally individual players rubbing each other up the wrong way and not dealing with it well. So we need to come up with a way to deal with people clashes

 

Verbs council/ dictatorship was a good idea, but nothing has visibly changed, so mostly can we not have this conversation again in 3 months time :p

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Posted
  On 6/15/2017 at 6:39 PM, BFG said:

Verbs council/ dictatorship was a good idea, but nothing has visibly changed, so mostly can we not have this conversation again in 3 months time :p

 

Nothing changed because I chickened out and didn't implement it.  Fun fact, I've created a mafia usergroup that cannot see this forum.  It will be used as I deem necessary, and I call on ANY game mod to inform me of instances they feel it is needed.  I'll review, work with the people involved, and that will be the punishment if needed (last resort).

 

:-)

Posted

So, for example

 

Cory has a rule stolen from MU; to paraphrase

 

"it isn't always enough to treat others how you would want to be treated, sometimes you need to treat them as they expect to be treated"

 

I'm not saying that needs to be the site standard, but make it clear what level thick skinnedness it is, so that players know what they can expect. I also don't think there's anything wrong or weak about having 'thin-skinned' games. I don't see any reason why mafia should only be for players that play antagonistically. Nor is there a problem with antagonistic play styles. But let people know which the game is

Posted

I want to have this conversation monthly... Don't you? Lol

 

I guess I could have phrased this better, I don't want to know about how anyone feels personally wronged, I want to know from a mechanics standpoint what didn't work, and how we feel we can all do better.

 

A code of conduct is a great idea, and I think having set punishments (such as warnings and further action if necessary) at specific points would be ideal as incentive for people to follow it once in place.

Posted
  On 6/15/2017 at 6:50 PM, BFG said:

So, for example

 

Cory has a rule stolen from MU; to paraphrase

 

"it isn't always enough to treat others how you would want to be treated, sometimes you need to treat them as they expect to be treated"

 

I'm not saying that needs to be the site standard, but make it clear what level thick skinnedness it is, so that players know what they can expect. I also don't think there's anything wrong or weak about having 'thin-skinned' games. I don't see any reason why mafia should only be for players that play antagonistically. Nor is there a problem with antagonistic play styles. But let people know which the game is

That is a great way to put it. We don't get to dictate how other people feel, and something that won't effect me could really bother you, and I think we at least need to be aware of that, so if it comes up that someone has a problem, we can resolve it and move on instead of holding onto it.

Posted

Most importantly I think players NEED to use the mods if they have a problem, and not have it out in the game thread. The mod has their own level of what's acceptable which may not match the players. They also can't be current all the time and may miss things, particularly if the game is active. So help them out <3

Posted
  On 6/15/2017 at 6:53 PM, BFG said:

Most importantly I think players NEED to use the mods if they have a problem, and not have it out in the game thread. The mod has their own level of what's acceptable which may not match the players. They also can't be current all the time and may miss things, particularly if the game is active. So help them out <3

Absolutely. And anyone who hashes it out in the thread, offender or offended, should face some level of responsibility for breaking the rules.

Posted
  On 6/15/2017 at 6:50 PM, Adella said:

I want to have this conversation monthly... Don't you? Lol

 

I guess I could have phrased this better, I don't want to know about how anyone feels personally wronged, I want to know from a mechanics standpoint what didn't work, and how we feel we can all do better.

 

A code of conduct is a great idea, and I think having set punishments (such as warnings and further action if necessary) at specific points would be ideal as incentive for people to follow it once in place.

Pls no :sad:

 

Lol, sorry if I misunderstood the OP

Posted
  On 6/15/2017 at 6:54 PM, Adella said:

 

  On 6/15/2017 at 6:53 PM, BFG said:

Most importantly I think players NEED to use the mods if they have a problem, and not have it out in the game thread. The mod has their own level of what's acceptable which may not match the players. They also can't be current all the time and may miss things, particularly if the game is active. So help them out <3

Absolutely. And anyone who hashes it out in the thread, offender or offended, should face some level of responsibility for breaking the rules.

 

Yes!

Posted

I agree very much with BFG's assessment that this is a problem we deal with on an individual level rather than one based on a dichotomy (DM vets vs. new meta!) or stylistic differences (playstyle clashes!) ... I think those dichotomies are mostly false at this point; almost everyone, regardless of era, plays the game differently, and with no objectively "correct" way to play these differences are a part of what makes the game so engaging and fresh. I think most of the previous discussions we've had have been responses to clique-y behavior (which I certainly bear guilt for) and the good news is fmpov that has gotten way better with our current player base.

 

So, we're left with the question of - how to do we prevent clashes between players in games? Prevention is probably wholly unrealistic - regardless of the fact that we are playing a silly game of Internet Guess Who ( :tongue:), it's a game where people are essentially accusing others of lying, and there may be strong reactions to thread events with a billion factors manipulating the end behavior - personal stress, strong evoking emotions: confusion, anger, fear, frustration, betrayal, pride... high emphasis on frustration. By nature, it can be a frustrating game, and that's really tied to the fact that it's challenging. I think for a lot of us, the challenge is exactly why we play!

 

So instead of prevention, how do we minimize blow-ups? Thread is already full of great ideas. A player code of conduct has merits; it may be difficult to enforce timely, but it gives new players & returning players a guideline for expectations on behavior. Using your mod as a resource to negate issues from blowing up in the thread; again, a great idea, should the individuals in the game choose to use it. Just doing simple things like taking a break when you're frustration / stress levels are high, trying to communicate in a healthy fashion, recognizing you are playing a game - no matter how competitive - and not being vindictive when you feel others are incorrect / misguided (see: Internet Guess Who, everyone is wrong all the time in this game!) all can make things more enjoyable & productive.

 

The fact is, the onus is on the individual, but I think the effect is larger than what a single person does; people emulate what they see, especially those unfamiliar, so keeping that in mind I think is a big part of changing the culture. There's lots of players here I feel are shining examples that you can be competitive without losing your civility and self-control.

Posted

I think it's a great idea both to have a CoC and to use the mods. Like I said, a game mod is in a unique place to determine intent from a player, and can do so without creating too much of a ripple I assume. 

 

MU's CoC is good, and could be adapted to fit us, or if anyone else knows a site with a good CoC we can pick and choose what we like from them. 

Posted

I'm not sure, Verb. Perhaps we can use the existing DM CoC and just put it here in the mafia section and use it more? idk.

Posted
  On 6/15/2017 at 8:59 PM, Verbal32 said:

 

  On 6/15/2017 at 8:58 PM, Clovdyx said:

You all know what I think.

 

You have actual thoughts?

 

;-)

 

 

No.

Posted
  On 6/15/2017 at 9:00 PM, Clovdyx said:

 

  On 6/15/2017 at 8:59 PM, Verbal32 said:

 

  On 6/15/2017 at 8:58 PM, Clovdyx said:

You all know what I think.

 

You have actual thoughts?

 

;-)

 

 

No.

 

Lies :(

Posted
  On 4/17/2011 at 5:58 PM, yoniy0 said:

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  Quote

Membership

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How many are active (this can be done through a roll call or your estimations)?

New members/Returning members?

 

Activities/Discussions

 

What did your RP Group achieve/do in the given month?

Raisings or Announcements. It would be nice to inform us who moved into important positions in your RP Group such as Staff.

What other important announcements or news do you have?

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I think the general discussion boards coc needs updating lol

 

Still talking about offsite boards

Posted

Honestly I'd link to the main thread but rewrite/clarify the important things, there are some things that are maybe mafia unique, e.g. mod being the first line of call etc. If you think someone's gone too far, address the mod instead of the other player directly etc.

 

And I'd suggest encouraging mods to be clear about what's acceptable in their games.

 

No personal insults is the default, but how you define personal insults varies. Telling some players that they've made a bad post is worse than insulting their mothers. That's obviously an extreme example, but still

Posted

I think that saying a post or a strategy is bad is within the realm of reason, but calling a player bad is not.

 

Calling names is absolutely not allowed.

 

IMO

Posted
  On 6/15/2017 at 9:39 PM, Sooh said:

I think that saying a post or a strategy is bad is within the realm of reason, but calling a player bad is not.

 

Calling names is absolutely not allowed.

 

IMO

Agreed,

 

But I suspect some players are ok with a

 

"no personal insults"

 

and others would (or may) prefer a

 

"treating others as you want to be treated isn't always enough..."

 

I don't think saying which one the game follows would be difficult?

 

Or maybe just put a vote up to see if it's preferred?

Posted

But it's a sliding scale. There are players that want to play without having to worry about offending people with a throwaway remark,

 

What happens in the game is game related and have a beer afterwards and done.

 

Some people want more than that

 

There's nothing wrong with either approach, but they clash badly from time to time, maybe we can be clearer which is expected in each game?

 

Or agree to one as standard :unsure:

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