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Danger in Demons Cove GAME OVER Villains win


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well both clov and kat have 1 vote each and now I am beginning to think that my town read on kat was wrong... :huh: and Ironeyes might just be town so [unvote] [v] clov [/v] am willing to switch to kat if no one wants to lynch clov today, just saying.

willing to lynch either Clov or Kat.

 

I unvoted and voted onto you. she just hasn't posted it yet.  oh and my suppers going to come soon so I won't be on for like 45 minutes to an hour or around 5:30ish.   I DON'T SEE WHERE EITHER DICE/CLOV CANNOT BE WOLF THIS GAME. MEANING THEY ARE W/T OR T/W OR W/W.  I am not so sure on the w/w but can possibly see it happening as I have already explained in my WoT. 

This still reads to me as if you are not sold on dice being town. Why are you joining him on clov?

 

If she flips scum this game is broken wide open, I think.

Alas, that didn't happen. The game could very well be broken open anyways tho.

 

Dice I think you got played by the mafia team.

How do you think this??? You had Kat as not town earlier. Dice was gonna vote her to save himself regardless at that point. 

 

they are bussing they're under player...

One dead mafia or another. All good for town. 

 

if she flips mafia thats fine by me

This is the correct thought. However the fact is Kat was town... Dice I still think isn't. I'm trying to figure out which of Hallia, WiFi and Tress are most likely on the team with him. I think there must be at least one of them.

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so heres the run up on kat

 

 

Vote: Kat

 

Halli votes kat. at this point theres only one vote on kat. Soohs.

 

 

WTF halli???  you trhink kats getting lynched in under 5 mionutes!!!???

 

I question it

 

 

I'm going to [v]Kat[/v] at this point - her absence this day phase has been super questionable, and what content we had from her D1 and D2 seemed to be quite a bit of following Nyn.  Knowing in hindsight that Nyn's D1 and D2 pushes were on town, it makes sense to me that mafia would be following a misguided town leader, it gives a great excuse to point to for being on several mislynches.

 

THIS bothers me. Have to look but wasnt tress town reading Kat just a couple of pages before?

 

DAY 3 VoteCount

Clov (2): Dice, WiFi

Dice (3): Turin, Ironeyes, Clov

Kat (3): Sooh, Hallia, Tress

Not voting (1): Katiora

tur_1473112800.png

Edited :dry:

 

VC before I swapped

 

fine maybe she is

 

 

unvote vote kat

 

i  swap. Now I would have preferred clov but kat was one of my scum reads and i sure as hell wasnt running the risk of getting lynched instead of my scum read

 

 

 

I think there was a bunch of clov protection in this section. They both could have voted clov and secured that lynch. Going kat was having to count on someone swapping. Probably not that big a jump considering I was there scum reading her and with my head on the block.

 

Tress is the vote that makes me nervous as said above. 

 

Vote Tress

 

 

 

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

 

* pays Zander royalties*

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Lets discuss this....we've each picked one of the mafia team...we've got to consolidate on one...we have to lynch....cory can you move to tress please...I am willing to move there for now..as she has shown herself to be of the mafia team from play last night her and hallia...I am not as sure about dice...I have my reasons but am not willing to discuss them just yet....need a mafia flip first...

This is weird. The main reason that I see people as looking hard at Tress and Hallia is that they worked together to flip the dice lynch to Kat. So their being mafia mostly depends on dice being mafia otherwise what was the entire point of flipping the lynch?? 

 

Lynch the mafia in front of you.  

 

My computer time is done this morning might be able to get on some more later today but it will be phone I think. These walls aren't going to paint themselves. They gonna look cool once finished tho.  :smile:

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Lol so WIFOM now stands for wolf in front of me?

 

I agree that Dice is scum and would happily lynch him today. I would also happily lynch Tress or Hallia, but I'm backing off on Clov. Lol me for scum reading him this whole game and then changing my mind now but whatever.

 

Be back in a few hours and on my laptop this time

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i went thru 3 hrs of having my eyes tested and poked yesterday and have a massive migraine and can barely open my eyes so u wont get much out of me before dl so i will dump it all here

 

Clov is mafia. simple. Theres no conviction to his game. His tone sux. My gut is screaming at me to lynch him and everytime i ignore my gut i regret it so im not going to do that.

 

Turin is building up to a doc claim i dont believe. Thats why he losing his mind about me discrediting it. I cannot see how there is a Randed doc in this game. IC being randed means nothing. It could be the only randed role. If its not then the counter to it would be a GF not a doc. We have been told we WIN abilities. they havent been RANDED. Tal won a cop view wifi won a vig shot. They didnt RAND them. Thus i dont believe theres a doc in this game unless someone won it. and then it would be a one shot.

 

Then theres his fearmongering. The whole "GF might view differently a second time" and "the doc might only protect from one shot" crud. He walked in and immediately started doing nothing but discrediting and sowing wifom about abilities. Totally believe he is mafia.

 

 

 if he even UTTERS the word bodyguard kill him with FIRE!!!!

 

 

Kat  The whole doc role thing. I think she screwed up about how our roles are gained cause she didnt read the OP and didnt recieve a town pm so she didnt know what she said. Add to that that shes done nothing this game and im thinking mafia.

 

 

Im town. Im an ADVENTURER. You lynch me you screw up and have probably lost the game.

Dice you are projecting. There is no way I am "building up" to a doc claim. Show me where I ever said that the were true roles in the game. I even stated that my opinion was that Alanna wasn't truly randed as IC but got an item that had the MOD onfirm her as town. What I was saying was that YOU are throwing around your OPINIONS like they are FACTS. that there was ONLY one prize each day. That there was only one of each item. That there must be no doc protect on N1 or N2 because "raisins". It reeks of misdirection. I just want people to think about the possibilities. I DON"T KNOW HOW THE GAME IS SET UP and I don't know how you think you do.

 

Giving people options is not sowing WIFOM. It is giving options to be considered. Following blindly is what gets towns into trouble. 

 

Clov is a good player. He could be mafia but I don't have any evidence of it and apparently neither do you. You scream buzzwords like toan and blah blah blah. Show me WHERE you are drawing this conclusion. It looks like pure posturing to me.

 

FTR I rarely actually claim BG and when I do it is usually more likely to be a derivative of it. 

 

 

Why did you wait until it was tied before you would switch over to someone you thought was mafia?

 

 

I WAS voting my mafia suspect. I was voting Clov. But noone wants to vote the wolf.

 

 

So tell me what was the point of ure lololol post? WAS there a point?

 

and if those two ARE mafia then the only reason i can think of to swing the lynch is to set me up for today. Cause i AM TOWN! Thing is I cant see mafia all outing themselves yet. NO way all the mafia were on that train.

 

 

If I get lynched and then flip Town  as i will   does that put us at lylo?

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Dice, you see the problem with that idea tho right? for mafia to work so hard outting themselves to save you yesterday in order to lynch you today makes no sense. You are more vocal than Kat. it would be easier and safer, which is very important for them, to just let you get lynched and then go for Kat today. 

 

As for lylo, that has to do with setup, so I don't know. I think today is most likely lylo. game started with 13. We are down to 7 left. with a 13 at start you would expect 3 mafia at least. Obviously it isn't 4 because then the game would already be over. If mafia started with just 2 then we have another day. I'm not holding my breath for that so I really wanna make sure I lynch a wolf. I think that wolf is you

 

As to posting LOLs I just thought that your post was ridiculous and it made me laugh. so I did. .

 

Let me ask you something. Two somethings actually. First did you type your vote before or after Tress posted? (you said you were ninja'd) Second, if Kat was a scum read (which you did post about earlier) Why did you question Hallia when she made it an option for you to vote Kat and tie the wagons? 

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heres the thing I think theres at LEAST 1 mafia between you and Hallia

 

so how u gonna prove its not you Tress?

I'm really not sure what you expect me to say here... without a cop viewing me innocent I don't know that I can prove anything to anyone.

 

I did win a doc protect N1, but I used it on Alanna and she died anyway so that means nothing - not sure if I was blocked or Alanna had two shots on her or what.

 

But really, if I was mafia, why wouldn't I let town!Dice just die there?  Voting someone else right at EOD just put a lot of attention on me for no good reason.  That's all WIFOM of course, and not a defense.  

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DAY 4 VoteCount

 

Tress (2): Ironeyes, WiFi

 

Dice (2): Clov, Turin

 

Not Voting (3): Dice Hallia, Tress

 

bla_1473372000.png

 

Game will stay as deadline. Please do not discuss this in thread

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Dice, you see the problem with that idea tho right? for mafia to work so hard outting themselves to save you yesterday in order to lynch you today makes no sense. You are more vocal than Kat. it would be easier and safer, which is very important for them, to just let you get lynched and then go for Kat today. 

 

As for lylo, that has to do with setup, so I don't know. I think today is most likely lylo. game started with 13. We are down to 7 left. with a 13 at start you would expect 3 mafia at least. Obviously it isn't 4 because then the game would already be over. If mafia started with just 2 then we have another day. I'm not holding my breath for that so I really wanna make sure I lynch a wolf. I think that wolf is you

 

As to posting LOLs I just thought that your post was ridiculous and it made me laugh. so I did. .

 

Let me ask you something. Two somethings actually. First did you type your vote before or after Tress posted? (you said you were ninja'd) Second, if Kat was a scum read (which you did post about earlier) Why did you question Hallia when she made it an option for you to vote Kat and tie the wagons? 

 

 

the ninja comment was about me asking halli did she think kat was going to get lynched in 5 minutes and then tress voted. i typed and voted after tress voted

 

 

and the question was because her vote put kat at 2 with 5 minutes left. I didnt think wed get a lynch on her in that time so i wanted to know why halli went for someone with only one vote on them

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heres the thing I think theres at LEAST 1 mafia between you and Hallia

 

so how u gonna prove its not you Tress?

I'm really not sure what you expect me to say here... without a cop viewing me innocent I don't know that I can prove anything to anyone.

 

I did win a doc protect N1, but I used it on Alanna and she died anyway so that means nothing - not sure if I was blocked or Alanna had two shots on her or what.

 

But really, if I was mafia, why wouldn't I let town!Dice just die there? Voting someone else right at EOD just put a lot of attention on me for no good reason. That's all WIFOM of course, and not a defense.

So who do you think the mafia are?

 

Because I don't believe we're dealing with town!Dice, and I have a hard time seeing a team that doesnt involve you.

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heres the thing I think theres at LEAST 1 mafia between you and Hallia

 

so how u gonna prove its not you Tress?

I'm really not sure what you expect me to say here... without a cop viewing me innocent I don't know that I can prove anything to anyone.

 

I did win a doc protect N1, but I used it on Alanna and she died anyway so that means nothing - not sure if I was blocked or Alanna had two shots on her or what.

 

But really, if I was mafia, why wouldn't I let town!Dice just die there? Voting someone else right at EOD just put a lot of attention on me for no good reason. That's all WIFOM of course, and not a defense.

So who do you think the mafia are?

 

Because I don't believe we're dealing with town!Dice, and I have a hard time seeing a team that doesnt involve you.

 

 

Well look harder. :dry:

 

I've been thinking a ton about this for the last day or so.  WiFi I really don't see as possible here.  Ironeyes maybe as godfather, but it's not worth even considering until we have two dead mafia, so yeah.  I need to find two mafia with you, Turin, Dice and Hallia, then it might be worth talking about.

 

I feel like I've been the lone voice in the wilderness crying Dice is town, can I be that wrong?  I mean, I've taken a long break from playing and wasn't even reading games for about 7 or 8 months there... and him being mafia in Rey's JC game totally blindsided me.  Maybe I'm just not the GOAT Dice reader anymore?

 

Dice with Turin?  Hallia?  I don't see you and Dice as being mafia together unless you've been hard bussing one another all game.  Or maybe Hallia and Turin, but then why would she join the Kat train instead of voting Dice?   Hallia and Clov?

 

I'm gonna sleep on it.  Hopefully there will be more discussion in the morning.

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Well look harder. :dry:

 

I've been thinking a ton about this for the last day or so.  WiFi I really don't see as possible here.  Ironeyes maybe as godfather, but it's not worth even considering until we have two dead mafia, so yeah.  I need to find two mafia with you, Turin, Dice and Hallia, then it might be worth talking about.

 

I feel like I've been the lone voice in the wilderness crying Dice is town, can I be that wrong?  I mean, I've taken a long break from playing and wasn't even reading games for about 7 or 8 months there... and him being mafia in Rey's JC game totally blindsided me.  Maybe I'm just not the GOAT Dice reader anymore?

 

Dice with Turin?  Hallia?  I don't see you and Dice as being mafia together unless you've been hard bussing one another all game.  Or maybe Hallia and Turin, but then why would she join the Kat train instead of voting Dice?   Hallia and Clov?

 

I'm gonna sleep on it.  Hopefully there will be more discussion in the morning.

 

 

If IronEyes is a godfather, I don't know where to go.  I think WiFi is basically guaranteed town for things that have nothing to do with association, so my read on her doesn't change.

 

 

DAY 1 VoteCount

 

Ironeyes (3): Clov, Sooh, Tress

 

Niniel (1): Hallia

 

Hallia (3): Nyn, WiFi, Pral

 

Talmanes (1): Alanna

 

Not voting (5): Dice, Ironeyes, Katiora, Niniel, Talmanes

 

cya_1472508000.png

 
 

DAY 2 VoteCount

 

Ironeyes (2): Nyn, Tress

 

WiFi (2): Hallia, Niniel

 

Talmanes (2): Soot, Ironeyes

 

Dice (1): Clov

 

Not voting (4): Dice, Katiora, Talmanes, WiFi

 

gre_1472767200.png

 

 

You would look pretty good from moving on him early.  I can't rule out a bus entirely because he looked terrible early on so I would EXPECT his teammates to try to get ahead of the curve...but that's two different day phases you kept him as a viable lynch.  I don't remember exactly how you played in Diablo, but I don't think you decided to kill off a teammate for the fun of it.  

 

The problem I have even considering that as plausible is Hallia moved on Iron shortly after that vote count and put him in sole position of the lead, after moving off WiFi.  If Iron is mafia, that would be extremely good for Hallia.  I don't think she basically ever rolls off an easy mislynch onto her teammate that isn't guaranteed to be lynching, regardless of how much time is left.

 

So if Iron is a godfather and I'm clearing Wifi, you, and Hallia...that would mean his teammates are Turin and Dice.  I don't believe that's a possibility for a second, so either one of you tried to run Iron over as his teammate...or he's town.

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heres the thing I think theres at LEAST 1 mafia between you and Hallia

 

so how u gonna prove its not you Tress?

I'm really not sure what you expect me to say here... without a cop viewing me innocent I don't know that I can prove anything to anyone.

 

I did win a doc protect N1, but I used it on Alanna and she died anyway so that means nothing - not sure if I was blocked or Alanna had two shots on her or what.

 

But really, if I was mafia, why wouldn't I let town!Dice just die there? Voting someone else right at EOD just put a lot of attention on me for no good reason. That's all WIFOM of course, and not a defense.

So who do you think the mafia are?

 

Because I don't believe we're dealing with town!Dice, and I have a hard time seeing a team that doesnt involve you.

 

 

Well look harder. :dry:

 

I've been thinking a ton about this for the last day or so.  WiFi I really don't see as possible here.  Ironeyes maybe as godfather, but it's not worth even considering until we have two dead mafia, so yeah.  I need to find two mafia with you, Turin, Dice and Hallia, then it might be worth talking about.

 

I feel like I've been the lone voice in the wilderness crying Dice is town, can I be that wrong?  I mean, I've taken a long break from playing and wasn't even reading games for about 7 or 8 months there... and him being mafia in Rey's JC game totally blindsided me.  Maybe I'm just not the GOAT Dice reader anymore?

 

Dice with Turin?  Hallia?  I don't see you and Dice as being mafia together unless you've been hard bussing one another all game.  Or maybe Hallia and Turin, but then why would she join the Kat train instead of voting Dice?   Hallia and Clov?

 

I'm gonna sleep on it.  Hopefully there will be more discussion in the morning.

 

 

You still get to keep you GOATDiceReader merit badge hun cause you are right     im just worried ure right cause you know im not mafia because you are.

 

 

Have you asked BFG for any info about ure N1?

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Just so you all know.  I am keeping up to date.  but I've put my ideas out there. Now I am listening to yours.  I am trying to formulate questions but will probably not get to it till after 12ish EDT.  I have a group to run and then lunch...unless I can come up with some between now and 9:50 am when I have to start getting ready for group.  

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@ Dice - in my experience mods never give info about why things happen the way they do, I know I wouldn't as a mod. Giving an answer to a question like "why didn't my protect work" would be giving away setup info, it always gets a PAFO.

 

So I don't bother asking. *shrug*

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WiFi, Who do you presently think are the mafia and why?

 

I ask because these are your posts so far today and I don't understand why you are unwilling to vote Dice. 

I think dice, hallia and tress are the mafia team...due to what happened at EoD

You have him marked as mafia here.

 

they could have totally used the fact that dice was the alternate wagon to clear him...

This only really works if Kat would have been mafia. She wasn't so it means if mafia were so interested in moving the lynch to vote in that manner that the leader(Dice) is more likely than not mafia. I think that is what you were saying in your first post of the day.

 

That reasoning would be solid and is another reason why I am more convinced than ever that Dice is mafia. 

 

Look at it this way. If Dice was town and was in the lead they can afford to just not vote or to vote Dice even if they chose to. I think that Hallia had Clov as more town than Dice so given the choices she could well have just voted him and let him swing. Tress could have voted just about anyone and been fine in that situation as well. IMO the only way that the EoD voting is outting any mafia is if Dice is MAFIA. So going for the voters in stead of the saved person there doesn't make sense to me.

 

I'm going to [v] hallia [/v] cause she has been in my FoS the most this game.

I was more suspicious of Hallia for her change from saying she was going to go Dice D3 to turning around and voting WiFi to start the day despite saying she believed the vig claim.

 

Look at end of day closer....both hallia and tress went on dices wagon to "convince" him to move onto kat's wagon...they are both scum

See above. ONLY if Dice is mafia too. 

 

kats wagon.....

 

 

Lets discuss this....we've each picked one of the mafia team...we've got to consolidate on one...we have to lynch....cory can you move to tress please...I am willing to move there for now..as she has shown herself to be of the mafia team from play last night her and hallia...I am not as sure about dice...I have my reasons but am not willing to discuss them just yet....need a mafia flip first...

Why are you unwilling to move to dice??

 

[unvote] [v] tress [/v]

 

 

clov why don't you prove how townie you are by voting tress as we all know she is one of the mafia???

dice is the most likely mafia on the board right now. To my knowledge all the Tress suspicion is related to the EoD voting. If I'm wrong then correct me. I feel that there is NO motivation for mafia Tress to move the vote from town Dice to town Kat. Certainly not in such a high profile manner. 

 

you said it yourself...i think....don't go after the godfather go after the teammates...

Are you back to being more suspicious of Ironeyes than Dice??

 

Just so you all know.  I am keeping up to date.  but I've put my ideas out there. Now I am listening to yours.  I am trying to formulate questions but will probably not get to it till after 12ish EDT.  I have a group to run and then lunch...unless I can come up with some between now and 9:50 am when I have to start getting ready for group.  

 

Right this second who are your most likely mafia choices and Why??? 

 

Presently I have Dice as nearly assured. Followed by Hallia and Tress. Willing to throw in the possibility of Ironeyes. I doubt you are mafia because I don't see why you would claim the Nyn kill unless you were worried about a watcher seeing you. Clov has not been looking to manipulate in this game which is one of the things I look for from him. There is a way he uses his pulpit.  

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Dice, you see the problem with that idea tho right? for mafia to work so hard outting themselves to save you yesterday in order to lynch you today makes no sense. You are more vocal than Kat. it would be easier and safer, which is very important for them, to just let you get lynched and then go for Kat today. 

 

As for lylo, that has to do with setup, so I don't know. I think today is most likely lylo. game started with 13. We are down to 7 left. with a 13 at start you would expect 3 mafia at least. Obviously it isn't 4 because then the game would already be over. If mafia started with just 2 then we have another day. I'm not holding my breath for that so I really wanna make sure I lynch a wolf. I think that wolf is you

 

As to posting LOLs I just thought that your post was ridiculous and it made me laugh. so I did. .

 

Let me ask you something. Two somethings actually. First did you type your vote before or after Tress posted? (you said you were ninja'd) Second, if Kat was a scum read (which you did post about earlier) Why did you question Hallia when she made it an option for you to vote Kat and tie the wagons? 

 

 

the ninja comment was about me asking halli did she think kat was going to get lynched in 5 minutes and then tress voted. i typed and voted after tress voted

 

 

and the question was because her vote put kat at 2 with 5 minutes left. I didnt think wed get a lynch on her in that time so i wanted to know why halli went for someone with only one vote on them

 

But Hallia's vote put Kat within one vote of you.  Why not just make the vote? especially since you had her as a mafia read. At least it give you a 50/50 chance at living.  

 

I guess your lucky Tress voted Kat there. 

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heres the thing I think theres at LEAST 1 mafia between you and Hallia

 

so how u gonna prove its not you Tress?

I'm really not sure what you expect me to say here... without a cop viewing me innocent I don't know that I can prove anything to anyone.

 

I did win a doc protect N1, but I used it on Alanna and she died anyway so that means nothing - not sure if I was blocked or Alanna had two shots on her or what.

 

But really, if I was mafia, why wouldn't I let town!Dice just die there?  Voting someone else right at EOD just put a lot of attention on me for no good reason.  That's all WIFOM of course, and not a defense.  

 

 

Tress: you just outed yourself here.  On day one there was only 1 prize...Look at the wording very carefully in BFG's post, heck I will even bold and enlarge it for you:

 

TRUMPETS PLEASE

 

trumpetgif :ohmy:

 

Choose a number between 0 and 42, the lowest unique number[there is no "s" here] wins a prize

 

Do NOT discuss your answers, just PM a number to me :happy:

 

Deadline is phase change

 

u·nique
yo͞oˈnēk/
adjective
 
  1. 1.
    being the only one of its kind; unlike anything else.
    "the situation was unique in modern politics"
    synonyms: distinctivedistinctindividualspecialidiosyncraticMore
     
     
     
    •  
       
       
       
       
       
    •  
       
       
       
noun
archaic
 
  1. 1.
    a unique person or thing.
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I didn't out myself at all, WiFi, I did win a doc protect.  I was surprised there was more than one prize, but there was.

 

If you want to ask BFG whether there was more than one prize awarded N1, by all means do so.  I know I received one, as did Talmanes.

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Think about it.

 

What's the gain for me to lie about it? I know what the wording was of BFG's contest.  If I was making it up, that's again just drawing attention to me that i wouldn't want to draw as mafia. Especially since I protected someone who died anyway - where is the benefit in lying about that?

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I don't care about the prize claim or not. There's literally no way to verify if Tress is telling the truth. I have no doubt whether she won a prize or not (and whether she protected Alanna or not), we're not going to get confirmation of that.

 

The only thing that matters about prizes at this point is if somebody won something yesterday.

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Turin - basically all Tress suspicion is the eod vote and POE. If not her, who?

 

Based on your posts, I guess you're not writing WiFi off? Talk to me about that, because at this point, I don't see how that shot isn't all but clearing.

 

The only scenario I can thinkof is mafia!WiFi really did win a prize - it just wasn't the vig shot. She getsa roleblock or something and claims the shot as her prize. That seems like a really dumb thing to do. She could have saud nothing and been okay, or she could have claimed just about any other ability imaginable.

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heres the thing I think theres at LEAST 1 mafia between you and Hallia

 

so how u gonna prove its not you Tress?

I'm really not sure what you expect me to say here... without a cop viewing me innocent I don't know that I can prove anything to anyone.

 

I did win a doc protect N1, but I used it on Alanna and she died anyway so that means nothing - not sure if I was blocked or Alanna had two shots on her or what.

 

But really, if I was mafia, why wouldn't I let town!Dice just die there?  Voting someone else right at EOD just put a lot of attention on me for no good reason.  That's all WIFOM of course, and not a defense.  

 

 

Tress: you just outed yourself here.  On day one there was only 1 prize...Look at the wording very carefully in BFG's post, heck I will even bold and enlarge it for you:

 

TRUMPETS PLEASE

 

trumpetgif :ohmy:

 

Choose a number between 0 and 42, the lowest unique number[there is no "s" here] wins a prize

 

Do NOT discuss your answers, just PM a number to me :happy:

 

Deadline is phase change

 

u·nique
yo͞oˈnēk/
adjective
 
  1. 1.
    being the only one of its kind; unlike anything else.
    "the situation was unique in modern politics"
    synonyms: distinctivedistinctindividualspecialidiosyncraticMore
     
     
     
    •  
       
       
       
       
       
    •  
       
       
       
noun
archaic
 
  1. 1.
    a unique person or thing.

 

DO NOT GAME THE MOD. only bad things can come of this. 

 

It DOES NOT say that other prizes would not be awarded or that other abilities couldn't be gained for other reasons. 

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