The Wheel of Time Will Be Adapted as a TV Series

[Guest Amanda Fitch]

 

 

 

There is zero chance it's HBO. HBO only do one show in one genre at a time and WoT does not have the adult content they prefer, at least in the quantities they want.

GoT has... 2? Seasons left.

It might take 5 years for this to come out.

 

 

+1 on this. I think HBO could be the studio. It makes sense. GOT has only one more season of filming. GOT has a huge audience that HBO will want to keep (I have HBO only for GOT). If HBO gets started on WOT now, they can start filming around the time GOT is complete. The team that built GOT at HBO could literally step into WOT development without missing a beat.

 

If HBO didn't pick up WOT it would be a huge loss for them.  

[Verbal32]

 

 

 

 

There is zero chance it's HBO. HBO only do one show in one genre at a time and WoT does not have the adult content they prefer, at least in the quantities they want.

GoT has... 2? Seasons left.

It might take 5 years for this to come out.

 

 

+1 on this. I think HBO could be the studio. It makes sense. GOT has only one more season of filming. GOT has a huge audience that HBO will want to keep (I have HBO only for GOT). If HBO gets started on WOT now, they can start filming around the time GOT is complete. The team that built GOT at HBO could literally step into WOT development without missing a beat.

 

If HBO didn't pick up WOT it would be a huge loss for them.  

 

 

100% agree with this - I also only have HBO for GoT.

[SinisterDeath]

 

 

 

 

 

There is zero chance it's HBO. HBO only do one show in one genre at a time and WoT does not have the adult content they prefer, at least in the quantities they want.

GoT has... 2? Seasons left.

It might take 5 years for this to come out.

 

 

+1 on this. I think HBO could be the studio. It makes sense. GOT has only one more season of filming. GOT has a huge audience that HBO will want to keep (I have HBO only for GOT). If HBO gets started on WOT now, they can start filming around the time GOT is complete. The team that built GOT at HBO could literally step into WOT development without missing a beat.

 

If HBO didn't pick up WOT it would be a huge loss for them.  

 

 

100% agree with this - I also only have HBO for GoT.

 

For purely selfish reasons, I hope HBO, Netflix, or Amazon pick it up.

[What's a Seawolf?]

 

[stuff]

 

I think a lot of people are underestimating the amount of streamlining that the camera and a set of actors can do vs a book. For example let's just take EoTW:

 

Ep1 - Prologue through saddling up to leave Winespring Inn.

 

Ep2 - The ride out of Emond's Field - Leaving Baerlon

 

Ep3 - Baerlon -  escaping from Shadar Logoth

 

Ep4 - Rands/Mat/Thom to fleeing the fade at WB.

 

Ep5 - Perrin / Egwene to being captured by the WC + Nyn/Lan/Moiraine preparing to rescue

 

Ep6 - Rescue of Perrin/Egwene + Rand/Mat to Caemlyn

 

Ep7 - Time at Caemlyn to leaving via the ways

 

Ep8 - Ways + Fal Dara

 

Ep9 - Blight + EoTW

 

Ep10 - Aftermath + Amyrlyn arriving.

 

Season 2 I would do Walking Dead style with two 8 episode arcs covering TGH and TDR.

 

Really don't need to start omitting/trimming characters until TSR when the plot really begins to branch.

 

 

Good point about the streamlining.  The one caveat I would add is that there's still probably a lot of prose that will need to be converted to dialogue, especially inner thoughts (which can be shown to an extent, but some will have to be translated to spoken word somehow,) and that may cancel out some of the streamlining.

[Beidomon]

 

Feels good to be back on this board.

 

Toughest part about trying to discuss the potential TV series is balancing what I personally want to see (a very close adaption with corresponding huge budgets to accomodate everything) vs what actually has a chance to happen.

 

For example, some combination of Nyn, Egwene, Min, Siuan etc can be cut or combined.

 

But to me, that would lose so much of the WoT feel.

 

First and foremost I want the characters and their relationships to be carried across to the TV screen.  It's what made WoT so engaging and long lasting.  We knew how the characters thought, what made them tick, and how they related to each other.

 

I'd keep all the major characters (let's call them the EotW crew plus Siuan and a few others.)  Maybe diminished roles, but have them.

 

The big decision (and this is all just a random splattering of thoughts right now) is what to do with the Seanchan and Aiel.  Seanchan first.  For budgetary and story concisness, do you want to have just one big bad (all manner of DO forces) or do you want to mix in the Seanchan?

 

The Aiel have similar considerations.  Huge new culture, requiring a ton of additional actors.  Is it worth keeping them in?

 

As readers, the obvious answer is YES.  But I can see how each would be left on the cutting room floor due to budget or story condensing.

 

Personally, I hope the approach is not to cut characters and peoples but storylines.

 

Stick to four main storylines, each spreading out as seasons continue.  Rand, Mat, Perrin and Aes Sedai.

 

What the the BIG events? (i.e season finale's)

 

Battle in the Blight/Eye of the World visit (probably need to bulk up.  I can also see this being completely changed to a new, more 'massive' TVish ending.)

Battle at Falme

Battle of Emond's Field

Battle of Caemelyn (FoH)

Dumai's Wells

Cleansing

Rand's TGS realization and nearly destroying the Seanchan/WT battle

 

Some new storyline's will be undoubetdly worked in, but take those and build all storyline's towards them.  (Yes I stopped at TGS, but I figure after that it's just one season that's basically the Last Battle.)

 

Season 1:  EotW

-Major priority: Establishing the characters, relationships and world (Dream sequences are huge, as are developing compelling villians.  Ishy yes, but if those two forsaken are going to be the big battle at the end, they need development or forshadowing as well.)

 

Season 2: TGH, with maybe some TDR thrown in

-Major priority: Further character growth, splitting of the team, Rand coming to abilities.  World building.

 

I'm not going to go season by season because I haven't put much thought into this, but the main point is that I hope the writers etc. build off of and towards main events instead of just cutting characters.  For example, the cleansing being a big event means you have to focus on the Madness of male Aes Sedai, which means some form of Asha'man and the effects the madness has.

 

Bowl of Winds storyline and most supergirl adventures?  Cut the former, and alter the latter to fit whatever major events you chose and the new storylines to build towards them.

 

As much as I hate to say it, it would not be a bad idea to leave Thom actually dead after the confrontation in tEotW.  Moraine as well after FoH.  Snakes and Foxes are AWESOME, and I'd leave them in, but maybe think of another reaoson for Mat to go back, or have it just be Moraine parting some knowledge before in Finnland before dying.  (She doesn't do much in the Last Battle anyway.)

 

Thinking through the big events, Fain is not very relevant.  He can easily be killed off early or not be in at all, and anything major he does be given to someone else.

 

One of the reasons to possibly cut the Seanchan is to give more development time to the Forsakan, who in theory are going to be the main villains.  (Can you imagine if the show creators can successfully translate the 'Where in the world is Demandred' we all went through to numerous forsaken over the course of the series?  Would make for great intrigue amongst viewers I believe.)

 

I'm going to stop now, since I could probably go on for about 10 pages.  I don't even know if any of that made any sense.  Forgive the misspelling of names, been a long time since I've reread the series.

 

I guess the main point is don't cut characters just because there are too many, work the important ones into the storylines, even if it means changing a bunch.  Just try to keep the personalities in tact.

 

Either way, looking forward to it.

 

I think a lot of people are underestimating the amount of streamlining that the camera and a set of actors can do vs a book. For example let's just take EoTW:

 

Ep1 - Prologue through saddling up to leave Winespring Inn.

 

Ep2 - The ride out of Emond's Field - Leaving Baerlon

 

Ep3 - Baerlon -  escaping from Shadar Logoth

 

Ep4 - Rands/Mat/Thom to fleeing the fade at WB.

 

Ep5 - Perrin / Egwene to being captured by the WC + Nyn/Lan/Moiraine preparing to rescue

 

Ep6 - Rescue of Perrin/Egwene + Rand/Mat to Caemlyn

 

Ep7 - Time at Caemlyn to leaving via the ways

 

Ep8 - Ways + Fal Dara

 

Ep9 - Blight + EoTW

 

Ep10 - Aftermath + Amyrlyn arriving.

 

Season 2 I would do Walking Dead style with two 8 episode arcs covering TGH and TDR.

 

Really don't need to start omitting/trimming characters until TSR when the plot really begins to branch.

 

 

+1 to both of these posts. EOTW through beginning of TGH is a perfect Season 1. And Seawolf's suggestions are examples of areas that I would view as improvements. Especially giving the Forsaken a bit more screen time and menace. I agree that hopefully none of the main characters from EOTW will be cut - the characters to be cut will be the swaths of Aes Sedai, Wise Ones, Aiel, Wilders, etc. (and associated insignificant storylines) from the latter books.

[Werthead]

+1 on this. I think HBO could be the studio. It makes sense. GOT has only one more season of filming. GOT has a huge audience that HBO will want to keep (I have HBO only for GOT). If HBO gets started on WOT now, they can start filming around the time GOT is complete. The team that built GOT at HBO could literally step into WOT development without missing a beat.

 

If HBO didn't pick up WOT it would be a huge loss for them.

 

It won't be HBO. There is literally no interest there, the team behind GoT already has other projects lined up (David Benioff and D.B. Weiss have a movie development deal at Fox and will be moving straight from GoT Season 8 into that) and the company that has already picked up WoT (this deal is done, we're just waiting for the announcement) has poured a lot of time and money into the project and must either have been in serious discussions about it previously or have swept in with a colossal truckload of cash. If it's the former it'll be either Sony or Universal, who are the last two companies we 100% know have had official discussions about optioning the series, or someone like Netflix or Amazon who have that ready cash lying around.

 

It's a good thing it's not HBO. Their modus operandi for how they develop shows has changed in the last few years, especially because of GoT and True Blood before it, and they now want their big-budget flagship series to have a lot of sex and violence in them. That's apparently part of the problems they've been having on Westworld, which didn't have those elements prevalent in the show and may have had to have been readjusted to include more. Having a WoT show that can depict the charnel house at Dumai's Wells would be good, but I certainly don't want one where we get scenes of Rand and his three girlfriends getting it on all together or a graphic Egeanin/Bayle Domon series just because the network has mandated it.

[SinisterDeath]

 

 

but I certainly don't want one where we get scenes of Rand and his three girlfriends getting it on all together or a graphic Egeanin/Bayle Domon series just because the network has mandated it.

They could certainly write it in as a dream sequence..

[dexterryu]

The thing that I don't get is why everyone is talking about the sex/nudity of GoT, HBO, and WoT. WoT has quite a bit of both. There was very little in the first book, but quite a bit starting in TGH with Nyneave's accepted test.

 

The difference, (in the books) is that GRRM gets more graphic while RJ leaves more to the imagination. It could be done and work both ways so long as it isn't gratuitous (which I feel GoT could be at times).

[Edorion]

I used 'traffic' instead of 'discussion', a poor choice on my part.  I forget how long its been since I posted here.  I'm sure the arrival of details will herald a new age of discourse among the fandom, perhaps as long and hotly debated as the one which preceded it.

[MichaelOfTheWhite]

Get George R.R. Martin (or his crew) to help with the screenplays.

[Nightstrike]

George RR Martin is too old to finish his own series. He's also too cynical in his approach to making a story, and the ones who make game of thrones are in trouble because of their sexism and so on. Wheel of time is very different from game of thrones. I really hope we won't get anything like that. Wheel of time isn't just about sex, drugs and violence (with some cynical side-notes on how power corrupts).

Edited May 6, 2016 by Nightstrike

[Werthead]

Get George R.R. Martin (or his crew) to help with the screenplays.

 

I don't think George has ever read past The Eye of the World, so that would really not be a good idea.

 

George RR Martin is too old to finish his own series.

 

That's really not true.

 

The ones who make game of thrones are in trouble because of their sexism and so on.

 

No, they're not. Maybe they should be, but their approach has turned GoT into the biggest drama show on TV in the world at the moment, so unfortunately HBO has concluded that this approach works.

[Nightstrike]

Well, he's 67-68 or something like that, I think, he has taken 6-7 years to finish a book (doesn't help much that he never gets any younger and fresher), he weighs maybe 50 percent more than he should, and most people have retired by 70. If his weight is any indicator, then he probably won't be as healthy as most 75 year olds when he's 75. He probably doesn't need to earn any more money than he already has.

 

And GoT has been subject to criticism for the way they expose women as flesh items. They probably should have more of it, though. 

Edited May 6, 2016 by Nightstrike

[Verbal32]

Well, he's 67-68 or something like that, I think, he has taken 6-7 years to finish a book (doesn't help much that he never gets any younger and fresher), he weighs maybe 50 percent more than he should, and most people have retired by 70. If his weight is any indicator, then he probably won't be as healty as most 75 year olds when he's 75. He probably doesn't need to earn any more money than he already has.

 

Sort of irrelevant - if Martin hasn't read the series, then he clearly can't be making decisions on it.

[Moggy]

Very excited about this. I've always been intrigued at the prospect, but I was certain it would be too big-budget for TV. I suppose GoT has proven how profitable the fantasy genre can be with strong source material.

[Ryrin]

 

Totally on board with this. Harriet will not let this go the way of Red Eagle. I have confidence in her.

 

Red Eagle: she was there (with RJ) - "Manetheran (owned by Red Eagle) acquired the film and TV rights to The Wheel of Time in 2004 from James Rigney himself, and paid more than $600,000 to keep the rights through this past Wednesday, February 11, 2015"

Sanderson's books: she was there too

 

So ...

 

 

So, she has learned since 2004.....12 years.

 

Whether or not you like Sanderson, there was a limited number of authors to choose from.  He has become a succesfull author in his own right.

[Ryrin]

Very excited about this. I've always been intrigued at the prospect, but I was certain it would be too big-budget for TV. I suppose GoT has proven how profitable the fantasy genre can be with strong source material.

 

 

Me too!  Can't wait!

[Beidomon]

Ah the inevitable "Us versus GOT" discussion. They're both great series. But I don't think it can seriously be denied that GOT is superior in a number of ways. For one, the characters are much more complex. Lots of gray. WOT characters are generally very flat and either "good" or "evil."

 

The world and backstory GRRM is more intricate, especially the religions and houses. Those things are almost nonexistent in WOT. The fleeting references to the AOL - primarily through the forsaken POVs which are far too few - are interesting but just not enough.

 

The women characters - Dany aside - are much better in GOT. WOT's women are often insufferable.

 

WOT also has advantages. The very premise of the series - reincarnation in an ongoing battle of good versus evil - is more interesting. So is the magic - and the system of Saidar/Saidin and the taint and madness and breaking and hunting down of the make channelers. This is where WOT really shines.

 

But just because GOT has been a smashing success on TV, I don't think we can assume that WOT would translate nearly as well. I am chiefly concerned that a series that relies so heavily on magic will look cheesy as hell on screen.

[Nightstrike]

I think most characters in GoT are very black, not gray at all, so we disagree on that. Evil and/or self-serving in most cases. Maybe there are a few examples that aren't black, but still. There's also a lot of rape, murder, torture, and what have you. There's whore-houses and whores and incest and depravity of all kinds.

 

WoT does have some nudity, but mostly not too depraved. I think they must step very carefully on how they handle nudity, so they don't make it all about entertainment value. Cultural differences do exist in some regards - multiple wifes (as it is for Rand), decent clothing, and so on. It's been that way in the real world as well, but the religions that we have now have an extremely different view on how one should cover oneself. Especially women are expected to cover themselves nowadays. Although celebrities in the western world seem to have taken steps away from that principle.

 

Sniffing, braid-tugging, and some other things would probably be cheesy on TV (if it happens regularly, anyway). They can probably have a Nynaeve that expresses her obstinancy other ways.

 

They will need great special effects for channeling, otherwise it might look cheesy. But there have been lots of shows and movies with magic and/or superpowers, so they could probably make it work somehow, I believe.

Edited May 9, 2016 by Nightstrike

[Beidomon]

I think most characters in GoT are very black, not gray at all, so we disagree on that. Evil and/or self-serving in most cases. Maybe there are a few examples that aren't black, but still. There's also a lot of rape, murder, torture, and what have you. There's whore-houses and whores and incest and depravity of all kinds.

 

One of the most enjoyable aspects of GOT is how deep, multifaceted, and believable the characters are. The "good guys" aren't pure good, and many of the "bad guys" aren't pure evil. You can sometimes sympathize with the baddies and sometimes be taken aback by your heros. That's probably the biggest reason why GOT thrives as a TV show, and it is something that WOT is probably going to have to adjust to succeed. GOT is definitely gritty - especially HBO's rendition - and I think some of it is over the top. Especially the epidemic of kid-killing. But WOT world sometimes feels awfully sterile of day-to-day violence and mysogeny for a fantasy with so many nods to medieval history.

 

They will need great special effects for channeling, otherwise it might look cheesy. But there have been lots of shows and movies with magic and/or superpowers, so they could probably make it work somehow, I believe.

Serious question from someone not well versed in all things fantasy: can anyone name a fantasy tv or movie series based largely on magic that wasn't extremely cheesy? I really can't think of one. Harry Potter did fine with the wands, but those were kid movies. LOTR has magic, but primarily wielded by just one character. Star Wars has "the force" but it's mostly light saber duals and throwing heavy objects.

[Nightstrike]

Well, in the real world the worst evildoers of them all don't usually (if ever) do anything magnificiently good the next day or the next decade. I don't recall right now any instance from GoT where that happened, but that would be very unrealistic. Yeah, I know it's fantasy, but it's still humans in the story, so.

 

I think avengers had the scarlet witch do some things where we saw some special effects that were scarlet in appearence. I'm thinking  similar for depicting a weave, but with a weave of different colors. If viewed from a non-channelers perspective, we wouldn't see the weave, but the effect.

[Lironah]

So much nay-saying in this thread! As a screenwriter who has looked at WoT with an eye to adaptation, I can say with surety that the books will make an awesome TV show. I have zero doubts concerning the source material.

 

Will the show be good? That depends on 3 things:

 

1. Is the network willing to give it the budget it needs to be what it is? - Given the success of Game of Thrones and what I've heard about how much this studio is willing to shell out just for the rights, I think yes.

 

2. Is the director they bring on board a true fan, determined to hold true to the original story? - Based on rumors whose source I won't divulge, we have a good chance that he/she is.

 

3. Are the writers good enough at their craft to make the inevitable changes without sacrificing the heart of the story? - This could be the tricky part. I have no idea how many working screenwriters are familiar enough with the material to pull it off, but I expect they'll come out of the woodworks once the official announcement is made. I know I'll be putting my name in for consideration. Even if there aren't enough talented fans to fill the writer's room, as long as the director is on board with a faithful adaptation I'm sure they could pull in non-fans to fill out the room.

[Enia]

I really hope that there will be a tv series, can't wait for more news, I hope we will hear more about it soon! I just hope it will be done well, there have been so many disappointing movies based on good fantasy book series.. I'd be really mad if WoT got a bad treatment! I just love the series so much, and would love to see it on screen, and then my boyfriend would get to know the world too! Would be nice :D

[Werthead]

2. Is the director they bring on board a true fan, determined to hold true to the original story? - Based on rumors whose source I won't divulge, we have a good chance that he/she is.

 

The rumours at the moment are that some well-known fans/webmasters/people may be involved as creative consultants. For a project of this magnitude they will be wanting experienced personnel with lots of TV production experience or a significant track record in writing in Hollywood. I have no doubt there's plenty of scriptwriters around who have read and enjoyed the books.

 

They will also want to strike a balance between people who know the source material well but aren't precious about it: things will have to be changed, significantly, from the books to the TV screen even if we get 6-7 seasons at 14-16 episodes per season (which I suspect is the absolute maximum we'll get, credibly). If they're looking at 10 or 12-episode seasons, then the story will have to changed a lot more, and having someone who's wedded to the books is not a good idea at that stage.

 

As this is a TV show, there will be many directors involved over the course of the series. It's more important that the showrunner, producers and writers are more familiar with the source material, at least up to a point.

[Talmanes]

Get George R.R. Martin (or his crew) to help with the screenplays.

Please, no. Just no.

 

I can't stand GRRM's writing style. Never even finished book four. I will give it a whole lot of credit for making Fantasy mainstream enough to have shows like GoT, Shannara, and so forth be popular (though LotR had a big hand in that IMO as well)

 

I'm going to watch the WoT no matter what, too much of a fan not too. I'm more of the mind that despite the issues I really wouldn't change anything about the books. That being said I know that the TV show will have to change things, but I hope they stick more like LotR which left a hell of a lot out but did the main plotlines masterfully.