The Wheel of Time Will Be Adapted as a TV Series

[Werthead]

On 18/08/2018 at 5:49 PM, Durzan said:

Any additional news so far?

 

Yes. The showrunner, Rafe Judkins, is actually posting new information every (or almost every) Wednesday on his Twitter and Instagram feeds.

 

So far we know that Sony is making the show, Amazon are funding and will show it and the series has two writers in the bag already: Judkins (Agents of SHIELD) and Amanda Kate Shuman (The Blacklist). They have completed writing the first two episodes: 101 will be called Leavetakings and 102 will be called Shadow's Waiting.

 

Judkins has also confirmed four characters from the books (so far) will be in the TV show: Rand, Mat, Tam and Bela. Presumably most of the main cast from the early books will be in the show, but I expect to see massively less characters than are in the books later on (we're not going to get 150 Aes Sedai characters who are pretty similar to one another).

 

They've also said (today) that they will be looking for a fairly diverse cast to reflect the books: East Asian-looking actors for Shienar, ginger-haired actors for the Aiel Waste etc.

[HighWiredSith]

On 6/18/2018 at 8:26 PM, Sabio said:

Here is how I would see it happening....

 

Season 1; Based solely on Eye of the World

I think season one should cover the first three books, end with Rand taking Calindor and declaring himself the Dragon Reborn.  I would almost even daresay The Eye of the World could be condensed into one two part pilot episode with the majority of the first season focusing on the build up to the battle on Toman Head, mid season, and conclude in Tear with Rand taking Calindor.  Even though I love the first three books, it still feels like it takes too long for Rand to finally come to terms with who he is and to start doing something about it.  Don't feel like a television audience is going to be as patient with the characters as they continuously attempt to deny who they are, deny their role in the pattern, whining about how they're just a shepherd or  a blacksmith, etc.  The reluctant hero trope can only go so far in film/television before audiences are gonna give up and move on to something else I think.

Edited August 30, 2018 by HighWiredSith

[Werthead]

At the moment we know that Episode 1 ends with the team leaving Emond's Field and Episode 2 takes them through the Shadar Logoth encounter. So whilst they're going fast, EotW is clearly going to cover 6-8 episodes at the lower end, not 2 or 3.

 

The question at the moment is if they are working towards 1 book per (short) season or 2 books per a standard 12-13 episode season.

Edited August 30, 2018 by Werthead

[HighWiredSith]

Episode 1 ends with the fight in Shadar Logoth.  I would completely cut out the stuff in Baerlon and have the group leave Emond's field, a few LOTR type traveling sequences, maybe a conversation around a campfire, and then start the entire Shadar Logoth sequence, end with the separation.  Episode 2 could end where the book ends.  Stuff is going to have be cut out, no way around it.  Perrin and Egewene's visit to the Tinkers, condense that entire subplot to a single encounter with the Children of the Light, make that Perrin's introduction into wolf-hood, the wolves coming to his aid and creating that bond.  As for Rand and Matt, you could excise most of that plot, take out his meeting with Elayne, leave that introduction for later, bring Loil in at Whitebridge, have the group re-group, hit the ways, and into the blight, roll credits.   

 

Cutting out Baerlon would mean cutting out Min's entrance into the story - but dare I say I think it would make sense to cut Min out all together?  In a TV show she's seems like one lover too many and I think she feels most of the time like a tacked on character anyway.  Give her ability to foresee people's fates to Elayne, make it part of the one power and just cut her out.  Likely would piss off fans but let's be honest, they're going to have cut chracters and sequences, entire subplots, to make this into a series.

[Pandemonium]

yes they are going to have to cut characters.  I don't think it makes sense to cut Rands first meeting with Elayne.  that was a pivotal scene.  that said, I don't think Galad is a necessary character.  in fact, the whole children of the light are not really necessary to the wheel of time narrative.  Pedro niall and semen valda really don't add much.  even gawyn isn't a necessary character.  I felt that the 3 sword fights with Demandred kind of detracted from Lans fight final fight.  even padan fain might not be necessary, he wasn't that essential and his final battle with Matt was an enormous disappointment.   I also agree about removing Min.  the love quadrangle probably wouldn't look to great on TV.  

[Werthead]

On 30/08/2018 at 8:39 PM, HighWiredSith said:

Episode 1 ends with the fight in Shadar Logoth.  I would completely cut out the stuff in Baerlon and have the group leave Emond's field, a few LOTR type traveling sequences, maybe a conversation around a campfire, and then start the entire Shadar Logoth sequence, end with the separation.  Episode 2 could end where the book ends.  Stuff is going to have be cut out, no way around it.  Perrin and Egewene's visit to the Tinkers, condense that entire subplot to a single encounter with the Children of the Light, make that Perrin's introduction into wolf-hood, the wolves coming to his aid and creating that bond.  As for Rand and Matt, you could excise most of that plot, take out his meeting with Elayne, leave that introduction for later, bring Loil in at Whitebridge, have the group re-group, hit the ways, and into the blight, roll credits.   

 

Sorry, I was talking about what the actual TV writers are doing. They've already confirmed that Episode 1 will cover the introduction, Winternight, battle for Emond's Field etc, and Episode 2 will then be Shadar Logoth (and presumably Baerlon as well, although they may indeed cut that or speed through it).

 

[Guest]

There is no way at all that I would recommend cutting out Min from the WoT television show. Not only is she my favorite of Rand's lovers, but her visions, sense of humor, common sense, and intelligence make her one of the most well rounded female characters in the series. 

[Tomp]

I agree that Min must be in the series. Maybe she isn't my favorite character but she's far from the worst. However more importantly she has significant roles to play in the series.

 

First you have the foreshadowing and narrative aspects (which are significant) as well as her unique personality. Her forshadowing abilities are really important when you experience the story the first time. It's only after you've read/heard/(future seen) it that you talk about cutting the character.

 

Second and most important. Min's relation with Rand have some very thematic and psycological things going for it. The number 3 is psycologically a significant number. If Rand have 2 women loving him it's not much different from a traditional love triangle about who he loves most and who would care about that question for more than one or two seasons. There's not enough continuing contact between Rand and the women in big parts of the series to make it an interesting story point without the intriguing mystery and talking points. 

 

That's my opinion anyway.

[Werthead]

Huge Q&A with the showrunner today.

 

Main take-aways:

• The books will not be mapped 1:1 to the TV show seasons. This sounds like the approach taken by The Expanse (which took all of Season 1 and then 4 episodes from Season 2 to adapt Book 1, then 8 episodes of Season 2 and 5 from Season 3 to adapt Book 2 etc) and the new His Dark Materials show (which will adapt 3 books across 5 seasons).
• Episodes will be 1 hour long each.
• There'll be more than 5, but definitely less than 14, seasons in total.
• Amazon hasn't greenlit the project yet but there's been positive sounds in the last few months (which is why he's been allowed to do the Q&A).
• New Spring may be adapted as well, possibly as a special of some kind once the series is fully underway (could be a good way of keeping Moiraine and Lan's actors interested when they're not doing much in the main series).
• The TV show will be a faithful adaptation of the books, but will of course have to condense some characters, storylines. Apparently the "latter middle" section of the series may be compressed a bit more (i.e. PoD through CoT, surprising nobody). Judkins notes himself as a Lady Stoneheart fan (from Game of Thrones) and was sorry to see her cut from the TV show, but these things are sometimes necessary.
• He wants to cast Rand and the Aiel as "tall gingers" if possible.
• On LGTBQ+ representation, there'll be "pillow friends out of the wazoo."
• How channelling will be handled is still being discussed, but Judkins liked how the magic was done in Doctor Strange and Avengers: Infinity War, which may serve as a template.
• Trollocs and other Shadowspawn may be a combination of CGI and prosthetics, but he feels that prosthetics is better for both actor and viewer immersion.
• Billy Zane will not be reprising his role of Ishamael from the Red Eagle informercial.
• Judkins is aiming for the quality level of the LotR movies or GoT, definitely not Shannara.
• Brandon Sanderson, Harriet and the rest of Team Jordan will advise on the show's development, some more than others (I suspect Brandon will be busy with his own books to do a huge amount, though).
• Confirmed characters: Rand, Egwene, Cenn Buie (if less than in the book), Logain (in an expanded role), Tam, Bela, Padan Fain (who'll be less obviously a villain), Faile, Mat. His favourite Forsaken are Graendal and Moghedien, so it sounds like they'll be in as well.
• Unconfirmed characters: Aviendha, Min, Elayne. Judkins notes that the four-way relationship from the books isn't really viable for the show and will be changed. He refused to confirm if this means that some of these characters will be merged or cut. I suspect this is the most controversial take-away from the Q&A. My guess is that the characters will still be in the show and Rand may be sequential relationships with them, but won't be in a polygamous relationship with all of them at once.
• His favourite character is Egwene and his favourite scene is Dumai's Wells. His least favourite character is Faile, but promises she'll be awesome on the show. In terms of tough scenes to write, Tel'aran'rhiod is proving problematic (mainly as they won't know how it's going to be depicted until the vfx department comes on board).
• There'll be less braid-tugging and dress-smoothing than in the books. There will be one braid-tug in the first episode though.
• No decision yet on filming locations. He hopes the budget will be large enough so they can visit the most appropriate locations around the world.

 

 

[Thrasymachus]

If they do cut out one of the three, my guess is Aviendha.  Elayne pretty much has to get knocked up by Rand or the events of her Succession in Andor and ultimately the Last Battle don't make sense.  Min has to be the constant in Rand's everyday personal life or Rand risks becoming dehumanized as he makes himself get harder and darker, and she's at the heart of the events that turn him to his darkest.  Avi, as cool as she is, basically serves as a window into the Aiel, and as a sidekick for Egwene and then Elayne.  She doesn't contribute much to anybody's else's character development or plot.  Cutting Avi means they can cut Nakomi and the whole future of the Aiel vision thing, which isn't really relevant to any of the other main characters or the buildup to or prosecution of the Last Battle.  At most, it motivates a slight change to the Dragon's Peace treaty, but doesn't change anything about how the Last Battle was fought.  Of the Three, she's the only one who can pretty much be lifted out of the story without changing anything very much.

 

Still, though, I hope Rafe is just stirring up an anthill and pulling our legs a bit.  Altering the relationship between Rand and his women changes a bunch of the feel and symbolism, particularly of Min's viewings.  And I'd hate to lose the depth of the worldbuilding we get from Avi's window into the Aiel.  There is one thing that Aviendha has a role in that I think is important enough to keep her, and the whole polygamous relationship thing in the story for: the tripartite bond.  That bond is how Elayne is able to keep some tabs on Rand and helps Caemlyn not suffer through the worst of the bad weather leading up to the Last Battle, post Veins of Gold.  And it's how knowledge of Rand's survival survives his apparent death at Shayol Ghul.  It will be an important tool for convincing the viewer that Rand in fact survives as well, as it's a lot harder to get inside a TV character's head than a book character's, by having other characters who have that supernatural awareness of Rand confirm it.

[SinisterDeath]

Removing the "Trinity" from WoT, would be removing some huge Arthurian symbolism from the series. 
It's possible to remove the Polygamy, while retaining 3 characters that are in Love with one character/Love Square? 

 

I just hope they don't try turning Avi into a Dude, and make that new character Rand's new love interest just for the sake of LGBTQ+ representation and diversity.

[CUBAREY]

Think you guys are missing the point. From what I gathered from what the author said Avi is not being cut nor turned into a dude. What likely will happen is that Sister Wives relationship will be a springboard to have Avi and Elayne in a Lesbion relationship. The concept was alluded to in the actual books with at one point two of the wives women basicly betting on who a Third wise woman that was involved in a Sister wife relationship seek out when returning home her husband or her sister wife.  

 

I see nothing particularly wrong with developiong a relationship between Avi and Elayne following that vain. What worries me is that the writer seemed to think that the books offered a broad set of options to present "alternate" gender configurations which I think is going beyond anything that may have been alluded to in the books.

[solarz]

On 9/12/2018 at 4:49 PM, Werthead said:

Confirmed characters: Rand, Egwene, Cenn Buie (if less than in the book), Logain (in an expanded role), Tam, Bela, Padan Fain (who'll be less obviously a villain), Faile, Mat. His favourite Forsaken are Graendal and Moghedien, so it sounds like they'll be in as well.

 

Faile is confirmed, but not Perrin???

[CUBAREY]

On 9/17/2018 at 12:04 PM, solarz said:

 

Faile is confirmed, but not Perrin???

If you have Faile then Perrin is definately in. How do you do her story line without her having a love interest? The fact that the Three boys seperate early on in the story means that it would be almost impossible to have Faile be involved with either Matt or Rand. Plus, the whole wolf brother thing seems to be much easier to pull off on screen then other aspects of the "magic" in WOT.  

 

 

Although the whole transgender thing can be explored with the Forsaken that are reincarnated in the bodies of members of the opposite sex! 

 

 

 

Edited September 19, 2018 by CUBAREY

[Graendals favourite]

We must have common sense! Or too Noble sense! I will no only promote male nudity, but I think that is probably just been failed to been mentioned.

[CUBAREY]

2 hours ago, Graendals favourite said:

We must have common sense! Or too Noble sense! I will no only promote male nudity, but I think that is probably just been failed to been mentioned.

 

 

It will be an Amazon production and geared to it's American audience (in both Amazon's and HBO's case their audience is worldwide but if their American audience fails to materializethe economics become problematic. So American sensibilities will likely prevail over European or Asian attitudes towards sex and violence. Thus figure male nudity to about the same extent as in HBO's Game of Thrones with likely the same type of imbalance with showing male and female nudity and a rather large focus on the bloodier parts of the novels (The Dumai Wells battle will be particularly spectacular for it's blood and gore).

 

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

Lol.  There will only be female nudity hence the bevy of nonsense pillow friends to draw the demographic they seek. 

[SinisterDeath]

17 hours ago, Mrs. Cindy Gill said:

Lol.  There will only be female nudity hence the bevy of nonsense pillow friends to draw the demographic they seek. 

Just remember,

 

[Werthead]

On 17/09/2018 at 5:04 PM, solarz said:

Faile is confirmed, but not Perrin???

 

These are the only characters mentioned explicitly by the showrunner. So of course Perrin will be in the show and I think we can assume most major characters from the books will be.

 

Where characters will likely be cut is around the level of Weiramon, Dobraine and about 80% of the Aes Sedai named or mentioned in the books, unless their casting budget is ten times higher than Game of Thrones.

[Maedelin]

I am very concerned about this write up, along with one from Variety claiming that the show is "women driven".  The person who wrote this article does not understand the series:

 

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/wheel-time-fantasy-drama-nabs-amazon-series-order-1148488

[Nym]

 

[CUBAREY]

3 hours ago, Maedelin said:

I am very concerned about this write up, along with one from Variety claiming that the show is "women driven".  The person who wrote this article does not understand the series:

 

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/wheel-time-fantasy-drama-nabs-amazon-series-order-1148488

Frankly it's not surprising in this day an age for a writer in a pop medium to stress the woman centric aspects of WOT especially as the writer appears not to actually be aware of the content of the entire series but from the description her knwledge of the series seems to based on having  skimmed a synopsis of the first book. I am not at all worried about her ignorence. If the showrunner or writer had written the article then I would be more worried. Instead she seems to have clipped statements from the showrunner that support her rather  shallow understanding of the story. That bugs me but does not make me in itself question the quality of the proposed adaptation.

[SinisterDeath]

8 minutes ago, CUBAREY said:

Frankly it's not surprising in this day an age for a writer in a pop medium to stress the woman centric aspects of WOT especially as the writer appears not to actually be aware of the content of the entire series but from the description her knwledge of the series seems to based on having  skimmed a synopsis of the first book. I am not at all worried about her ignorence. If the showrunner or writer had written the article then I would be more worried. Instead she seems to have clipped statements from the showrunner that support her rather  shallow understanding of the story. That bugs me but does not make me in itself question the quality of the proposed adaptation.

Have you read the show runners Twitter Q&A?

I worry they are going to alter quite a bit.

[CUBAREY]

38 minutes ago, Nym said:

 

I think the Official Anouncement has already been made and quoted in the article you cited. The "Official Announcment" would be the Announcment by Amazon entertainment. Any announcement from Harriet or team Jordon might be valuable especially if it went into a facet of the production that has not yet been disclosed but it would not constitue the "Official Announcment as Harriet and Team Jordon are only tangentally associated with the proposed series. They long ago sold off the rights to the series and have no veto power or likely any real way to effect the shape and direction of the series (which might be the case if Harriot or some on Team Jordon had been hired as a Technical or other Consultant to the series). Really, anything to do with the actual series is really a decision for the Showrunner/Amazon Entertainment/ Sony Entertainment to hash out.

[Songstress]

4 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

Have you read the show runners Twitter Q&A?

I worry they are going to alter quite a bit.

 

I read the Q&A along with some follow up exchanges on Twitter, and I expect Rafe Judkins wants to be rather faithful to the books  (within the usual constraints of adapting to a different medium and having to work with time and budget limitations).

 

I can see this summary being a part tease to keep non-book fans from knowing which of the Emonds Fielders is the Dragon Reborn for a bit longer, and part emphasis on Moiraine's role in the first book.

 

Despite the fact that the vast majority of Book 1 is from Rand's perspective,  Moiraine's quest is pretty integral to the story, and focusing on her role in the first season/first book doesn't strike me as changing the story at all, really.