the Hunt for the Dragon Reborn [Standard Mafia] Game Over town wins

[Cory Caboose]

Now that we have some real content let's try to keep the volume manageable for those who are multi-tabling / haven't check in yet / have missed most of the game (Verb/Kat/Tina/Darthe)

 

I think I want a fresh perspective on things before I go much further and I don't want them drowned out because we suddenly have 30 pages before they even get in the game.

 

 

I understand the irony. Some of this is a note to self.

 

[Shad_]

I kind of sort of wanted an explosive 300 page game in spite of always criticizing them. 

 

But yeah, that's probably best.

[Zander?]

Zander will have less then 1500 posts imo

[Katiora]

Now that we have some real content let's try to keep the volume manageable for those who are multi-tabling / haven't check in yet / have missed most of the game (Verb/Kat/Tina/Darthe)

 

I think I want a fresh perspective on things before I go much further and I don't want them drowned out because we suddenly have 30 pages before they even get in the game.

 

 

I understand the irony. Some of this is a note to self.

 

 

 

THANK YOU..... lol

[Katiora]

I have done a brief scan through. But I hate d1. So until I get to work tomorrow and have a screen I can see I will keep my thoughts to myself. *nods*

[Cory Caboose]

I look forward to your thoughts!

 

Just an aside: at some point tomorrow would you be able to reserve me 10-15 minutes of your time just to talk to me in real time in the thread? You can let me know when and I'll be around. I promise I don't bite.

 

I get that the game volume and competitiveness of the games has increased greatly from the original DM games (and a portion of that is definitely my fault  ) and I'll probably just want to poke your brain on a couple things and get to know how you play and what you look for, etc.

 

IE: I don't want to box you out unnecessarily because I don't know you.

[Katiora]

I will sure try. And I don't mind biting as long as you know I bite back

[dicetosser1]

Dice is scum.

 

His only take in the first ~ten pages a chastisement of Zander for out of game stuff is not how Dice plays as a villager.

 

His response here to both me and Zander is not how Dice plays as a villager.

 

His line of thinking IRT to Zander is not how Dice plays as a villager. If you go back and read his chastisement, he says something like "Zander your vote is wrong and I think you know it's wrong" but there's no actual back mindset where dice actually thinks Zander is a wolf; instead he's basically just chastising him again for different things.

 

Really? You do something I think is out of line and i ALWAYS jump on you for it  (you as in the general you) Doesnt matter if its breaking COC using out of game arguments or who is online when. . Tell me I dont and I will call you a liar. And you know full well that doing that means nothing for my alignment. I do it as Town I do it as Scum and Id do it as Third party if need be.

 

 How many times had I posted Cory? like 4? 5? and most of it is in response to Zander and Zanders actions.

 

Soohs issue was around there being a cliquish feel at times   and I KNOW shes not the only one to think that at times   so what does Zander do? Jumps on her for an out of game reason then sheeps you. You cant call that post ANYTHING else. Yeah he said why didnt i vote him and I told him why but that post was blatant sheeping. After that topic has already been raised it pd me off. He should be grateful that the CoC means I cant say what I was REALLY thinking.

 

 

And why would I think Zanders a wolf for that? Its the beginning of D1 I got what he was saying I just massively disagree with it but its not enuff to decide he is a wolf on especially this early. And I chastised him for the SAME thing not Different things so i will thank you to not change what I did or did not say

[Hallia]

Wait, did you just say you would call someone on arguing over who is online when?

[dicetosser1]

yep  hence why i apologized to leelou in the other game hallia

[BFG]

Votecount

 

 

Dice (2/7): Cory, Zander

 

Not Voting (11): Calder, Darthe, Dice, Hallia, Kat, Shad, Sooh, Thane, Tina, Turin, Verb

 

 

 

Good morning :)

[Thane Vakarian]

Dice, buddy. How are you doing?

 

Are you a wolf this game? Why not?

[Sooh]

 

Shad has a bit of an "eager puppy" vibe going on right now, and he hasn't to my knowledge taken any stances on anyone. This makes me suspicious of him.

Why?

 

It just does. It's a slight red flag which may or may not lead to anything substantial, but I wanted to mention it. 

[Niniel]

I´ve read the thread a little now and then. Focus seems to be on Sooh´s early post(s) and now on Dice´s defense of said post. Sooh could have written that as both alignments and Dice as well so I count them both as null. I will re-read and see if there is something to find.

[Thane Vakarian]

Hi Tina

 

looking forward to your thoughts

[dicetosser1]

im annoyed Thane.

 

no wolfin. why? cause my pm says im not.

 

 

you?

[Turin Turambar]

Just getting ready to try to get caught up. Saw this and had to say I really don't like this post.

Dice, buddy. How are you doing?

 

Are you a wolf this game? Why not?

Can someone tell me why I don't?

 

 

 

This is the kind of post that leads to the clique thought. afaik Thane hasn't been mush into the thread aside from the jokey posts at the start of the game. So it reads EXACTLY as what Sooh was talking about. Thane comes in and buddies Z, Cory and Shad. Then his interaction with Dice is the opposite. His stance seems to be that He is convinced that Dice is mafia (for bad reasons IMO) and is in effect trying to get Dice to prove a negative when it should be more on Thane to show why Dice is mafia if that is his take. 

 

 

 

Okay. back in a bit

[Turin Turambar]

Expanding somewhat on my Thane impression.

 

 

 

Zander Cory can we be v/v/v scumslaughter apocalypse?

 

Jokey? town reading (buddying?)

 

I wanna keep Cory, that's for sure.. so... either you or Shad, let gameplay decide

 

Best case: we can do V/V/V/V Makes hunting easier, no?

More of the same. Note to self Has Corey as town read. Z and shad as maybe. Then reconsiders as both maybe okay.

 

People are saying these are just jokes but IMO if it is in thread it is valid for dissection. Basically there is nothing from Thane aside from the fluffy stuff until his "restart" post. 

 

So.... let's restart the game!

 

First post!!!

 

Hiyas all

 

Now, let's hunt some wolves, right?

 

ok, now for some thoughts of mine... it's a silly little thought i have, but i get the feeling (<- important word there) that we just might have all town players at the moment. Don't crucify me for that statement later if i'm wrong, but you may worship me if it's true

Everyone is town. Something to keep in mind if Thane should flip mafia later on.

 

Gut, for now, says:

 

Zander good

Hallia good

Sooh frustrated townie

Turin looking ok, but still cautious

Shad alright; for now

Cory (Wanna make Zan jealous)

snap reads that I was asking about, I think...

his early three buddies are still where they were apparently. Somewhat odd to me that his Shad has a caveat. Can you show/say what is giving you pause on Shad? What is your actual Cory read? wub isn't really alignment indicative to me.  

Turin read also couched. Why are you cautious of me?

Dice, buddy. How are you doing?

 

Are you a wolf this game? Why not?

This sounds like you are mafia reading Dice. When did this read develop? 

 

Hi Tina

 

looking forward to your thoughts

quoted just to show the difference in tone between Dice and others. 

 

 

 

a few questions inside

[Niniel]

I´ve re-read the thread but I can´t say that I have any reads one way or another yet. This is something I want to comment on though.

 

I think 8 people have now checked into the game. How many wolves so far?

I have a bad feeling about Shad.

 

Turin mentions he is having a bad feeling about Shad. He gives no reasons.

 

Really? Is it based on anything that the rest of us can see?

 

Sooh reacts. She asks him why but it looks like she accuses him more for his read than she actually asks why.

 

 

I think 8 people have now checked into the game. How many wolves so far?

I have a bad feeling about Shad.

 

 

Very strange thing to say imo.

 

 

Zander doesn´t ask him what his reasons are either. More a judgement on the statement.

 

I might trade for some of Thane's coffee.

 

And Shad doesn´t react at all. He talks about coffee instead.

 

 

 

 

I think 8 people have now checked into the game. How many wolves so far?

I have a bad feeling about Shad.

Very strange thing to say imo.

Do you have an opinion?
Why do you think it is strange?

 

 

Not really atp.

 

Its strange that you have one on Shad imo.

 

What caused you to get that feeling?

 

 

Now here, a bit later, Zander actually asks why Turin had that feeling.

 

 

 

 

I think 8 people have now checked into the game. How many wolves so far?

I have a bad feeling about Shad.

Very strange thing to say imo.

Do you have an opinion?
Why do you think it is strange?

What's your opinion? Do you think wolves are fast posters in general?

 

 

Hallia assumes that she knows Turin´s reason. But this is not Turin´s reason.

 

 

 

 

 

I think 8 people have now checked into the game. How many wolves so far?

I have a bad feeling about Shad.

Very strange thing to say imo.

Do you have an opinion?
Why do you think it is strange?

Not really atp.

Its strange that you have one on Shad imo.

What caused you to get that feeling?

why do you find my having an opinion strange?
The v/v/v thing sounds like trying to fit in. wether it really says anything about Cory and Zander is up in the air.

 

 

Here he answers Zander. His reason is that he thinks Shad is trying to fit in. (I guess it means a kind of buddying?)

 

 

 

 

 

I think 8 people have now checked into the game. How many wolves so far?

I have a bad feeling about Shad.

Very strange thing to say imo.

Do you have an opinion?
Why do you think it is strange?

What's your opinion? Do you think wolves are fast posters in general?

I do think wolves like to post early. That wasn't my real point tho. More trying to get some quick thoughts out of people.

 

 

And in the next post he tells her that he had another reason.

 

 

 

These are all early posts and maybe they don´t mean anything. I just want to keep them here because there might be some kind of connection between people.

 

Turin - looked like he wanted to start the game somewhere. It´s usually a good sign.

 

Sooh - I find her answer strange. Kind of an accuse before questioning his motives. Defending Shad?

 

Zander - Didn´t question Turin at first but actually did so later. That looks better.

 

Hallia - Assumed she knew Turin´s reason. If she turns up mafia then it could mean Turin is mafia as well. (I don´t have a read on any of them and this is a very weak connection but just wanted to point it out since I saw it.)

 

 

These are the only things that I noticed that hasn´t got to do with Sooh/Dice that I found interesting, even if it doesn´t actually give me any reads right now.

 

 

I think I understand all the points from Dice, Zander, Shad, Calder and Cory.

 

Zander: Dice corrected him without suspecting him to be wolf. Maybe because Dice is wolf himself.

Cory: The same as Zander + before, Dice has choosen something to focus on to seem involved as mafia

Calder: He would himself defend someone for non game reasons if he was mafia, to look better.

Shad: Dice doesn´t comment on anything else.

 

 

The first three points are interesting and I will try to remember them. I think Dice would defend Sooh as both alignments so it´s null for me so far. I have Cory´s second point and Shad´s in my head as Dice continues to post. As he said, he had only a few posts and this what was what the focus.

[Niniel]

The line about Shad in the first part disappeared - it´s strange that he didn´t comment on Turin´s read on him at all until later when it was a subject that people talked about.

[Niniel]

That said, maybe I do have a read after all.

 

Shad: slight mafia.

 

It´s strange that he didn´t comment on Turin´s post at first and his reason for voting Dice is a bit thin.

 

This is a very vague read. I´m not at all ready to vote for him yet. But it´s all I have right now.

 

 

Turin - I see what you are saying about Thane. I will think about it.

[Niniel]

OMG! I´m so tired and my writing is worse than ever. Try to read what I mean, not what I actually write. lol

[Turin Turambar]

Shad Part 1: 

 

 

Initial group of posts are what I thought looked like excessive buddying and what I will call "town backslapping". Ther is NO reasonfor Shad to have a solid town read on anyone as it is Page 1.  

 

Zander!!

 

I am actually really really pumped for this game.

 

Let's make it a good one.

 

I can guarantee 50% of something that has never happened before

 

What is this referring to? 

 

Zander Cory can we be v/v/v scumslaughter apocalypse?

 

 

I'm legit pretty excited for this game

 

 

For once rand has to make us all town together

 

 

 

*raises an eyebrow*

 

So this means Thane has cleared Cory already?

 

And it looked like Zander had done the same. 

 

Why?

 

 

Her is Shad's response to Sooh's early post. I am guessing that this is what you are saying drew the unwanted attention "by accident". If it is I don't really follow because I concur that it is waaaay too early to have any reads that solid that early. (BTW, for me it is something that I look for people doing early game) My PoV is that Sooh is exhibiting proper townie suspicion irt the group buddying (I will get into that discussion as an aside later)

 

 

The v/v/v thing sounds like trying to fit in. wether it really says anything about Cory and Zander is up in the air.

Would you perhaps say that I was trying to cory favor?

 

fluffy jokey deflection. could be innocent but again added into the rest of the posts it sits wrong.

 

 

For everyone: 
So many of these mafia games lately have started by people who are really excited about playing together, and the rest of us are not important what so ever. I dislike this behavior intensely, because in being exclusively interested in what that one person you're excited about is saying you're also immediately excluding a bunch of people.
 
Player 1 posts, immediate reaction: Oh Player, let's town together! We're going to wreck all the wolves and it will be awesome.
 
Player 2 posts, immediate reaction: Oh yeah? Is that what the wolves told you to say? Are you a wolf?
 
It creates an environment where some people, only based on who they are, are received in a so much better way than others.

It doesn't really work like that though. I at your intro post for the exact same reason Zander later explained.

 

I'm not sure that Z really explained all that well tho. I think the below post is the one you were referring to  tho. Sorry that it isn't clipped. I tried the first time and it broke the post so had to do it all over.

 

 

 

 

*steals Cory for himself*

 

 

I might trade for some of Thane's coffee.

 

 

hmmmmm.....noted coffee more important to Shad then lunching wolves.....lolololololol

 

 

*raises an eyebrow*

 

So this means Thane has cleared Cory already?

 

And it looked like Zander had done the same. 

 

Why?

 

Why are you even questioning this?

 

Why am I questioning that you have cleared Cory after 2 pages of content in a mafia game?

 

Why wouldn't I?

 

Unless you have a magic crystal ball I have no idea how you can be so sure at this point. It's one thing if you choose to clear him D1 because you want to look at others first, it's another entirely to clear him.

 

 

Sooh...i dont think you really think Ive cleared Cory....

 

Are you doing that thing that wolves do by just saying things for the sake of saying them?

 

My interpretation of this is that Sooh rightly questions Zander for posting (in a manner that does NOT indicate a joke IMO) that Cory is a BLUE read waaay too early to be able to justify it. Zander doesn't come out and say that it was a joke but instead tries to flip it onto Sooh by asking why she is questioning him? Because it is her job if she is town is the short answer. Sooh explains her reasoning which looks valid to me. Then Zander comes back with  he doesn't think that Sooh think Zander actually cleared Cory. Why would she not? That is what you said when you posted him as a blue read. Then Zander doubles down on the attempt to spin it back at Sooh when it was him not being clear and then not just admitting it was a joke that created the situation in the first place. So Shad, I don't think that Z explained very well and I don't really see why you would be upset that Sooh questioned a bunch of people doing the "backslap" thing so early. I personally believe that stuff like that is a reason that "deep wolves" get miscleared early too often. 

 

 

 

to be continued...

[Turin Turambar]

Shad Part 2:

 

 

 

Right now what are your snap reads of everyone? Just say who.you legit think is town or mafia. Feel free to leave out the nulls. I'm curious.

Right now I will say I am suspicious of all the people that say things like "hopefully we will read each other right" or things like that.

Hallia, Shad, Thane jumping into the 4 v's.

I actually lean town on Sooh for the controversial post. I just don't see her making that post as mafia. Too likely to draw negative attention.

I think rest null. But only on phone so might have missed something.

 

I think Sooh drew negative attention by accident and the 'controversial' post came later, so I'm intensely null on it.  I have some silly gut thoughts that certain people are town, and they really aren't worth sharing atp.

 

Why not share your "silly thoughts"? 

You seem to be locked in about the one post questioning too early town reading/buddying/"backslapping". I still don't see why Sooh questioning the early interaction is so troubling. Explain please? 

 

Dice. Ignore the frustration with bromance or whatever. This post:
 

*raises an eyebrow*
 
So this means Thane has cleared Cory already?
 
And it looked like Zander had done the same. 
 
Why?

Does it strike you as odd or not? Why?

 

My answer is NO. I think I have already explained. 

 

 

Shad has a bit of an "eager puppy" vibe going on right now, and he hasn't to my knowledge taken any stances on anyone. This makes me suspicious of him.

Why?

 

Mafia want to hide amongst the town. If it can be accomplished early and for little to no game related reason it is easier.

Mafia also like to not have to take stances because then they need to make up reasons to change them  if it is needed. 

 

 

If you're seeing something there that I am not, please LMK

Ok.

I struggled to buy that Sooh really took those opening joke reads seriously. This is why her first post looked strange to me. (I thought this bothered you, too, up until you clarified just now, because of the sequence of posts).

 

*raises an eyebrow*

So this means Thane has cleared Cory already?

And it looked like Zander had done the same.

Why?

Why are you even questioning this?

 

 

*raises an eyebrow*

So this means Thane has cleared Cory already?

And it looked like Zander had done the same.

Why?

 

Pootaloot are you a wolf?

Remember that while it's not your choice to be a wolf, it is your choice to be a liar

The Person A/Person B argument happens after these three posts. Before them, no one's 'excluding' Sooh from the joke-clear crew.

So either null!Sooh took the joke town reads rather seriously, didn't get why the three (apparently two) of us sussed her and assumed rather that we were, say, 'soul reading' her scum while 'soul reading' each other town, and that lead to Person A/Person B.

or else

scum!Sooh had at least some awareness that we were joking around, made a scummy post irt it, and only misinterpreted (some of) our responses to her after the first post in question.

Both result in the Person A/Person B post. I think that post is null. But I don't see a world where Sooh knew the 'lock clear' jokes were purely jokes and this same course of events unfolded.

The lean, at least in my eyes, hinges on whether you believe a town Sooh takes the "Cory obv town" posts seriously. Unless there was a layer of sarcasm to that first post that is completely eluding me.

I'm at least a little leery of the first post. Not enough to begin to draw conclusions when I have a whole phase ahead of me to figure her out, but it was enough to merit a quick comment at the time. If it didn't bother you, then we're not quite as on the same page here as I thought, I suppose.

 

Why is it hard to think that someone would NOT take a post like that as serious? 

It was very early in the game and I don't see how anyone could be confident enough in their  "soulread"s to have the difference in reaction to Sooh versus the previous people. 

The last bit sounds like a subtle "nudge". 

 

Question: Let's say that Sooh is really town. Who out of the four "backslappers" are you most suspicious of? (I guess it would be 3 since you aren't going to say yourself) Z, Cory, Thane? None of the above? Why?

 

"I don't see a world where town!Sooh knew the 'lock clear' jokes were purely jokes and this same course of events unfolded." ebwop

 

 

I think Dice talks out-of-game issues as scum precisely because he does it as town.  It's safe.  More the lack of anything else to comment on that's concerning imo.

Dice will talk about out of game things especially if they strike him on an emotional level which I think this would. His lack of commenting on other things I can see due to his being distracted by the other thing. I would say it is null. 

 

I kind of sort of wanted an explosive 300 page game in spite of always criticizing them. 

 

But yeah, that's probably best.

I don't really like this post very much. In my experience it is generally better for the mafia to have a super long game because it makes it much harder to reread the entire thread for the town. This allows the mafia to act more in the moment and not worry as much about what they said earlier and possible inconsistent thoughts. 

 

 

 

Vote: Shad

[Sooh]

 

Really? Is it based on anything that the rest of us can see?

 

Sooh reacts. She asks him why but it looks like she accuses him more for his read than she actually asks why.

 

 

*snip*

 

These are all early posts and maybe they don´t mean anything. I just want to keep them here because there might be some kind of connection between people.

 

Turin - looked like he wanted to start the game somewhere. It´s usually a good sign.

 

Sooh - I find her answer strange. Kind of an accuse before questioning his motives. Defending Shad?

 

Zander - Didn´t question Turin at first but actually did so later. That looks better.

 

Hallia - Assumed she knew Turin´s reason. If she turns up mafia then it could mean Turin is mafia as well. (I don´t have a read on any of them and this is a very weak connection but just wanted to point it out since I saw it.)

 

 

These are the only things that I noticed that hasn´t got to do with Sooh/Dice that I found interesting, even if it doesn´t actually give me any reads right now.

 

 

I think I understand all the points from Dice, Zander, Shad, Calder and Cory.

 

Zander: Dice corrected him without suspecting him to be wolf. Maybe because Dice is wolf himself.

Cory: The same as Zander + before, Dice has choosen something to focus on to seem involved as mafia

Calder: He would himself defend someone for non game reasons if he was mafia, to look better.

Shad: Dice doesn´t comment on anything else.

 

 

The first three points are interesting and I will try to remember them. I think Dice would defend Sooh as both alignments so it´s null for me so far. I have Cory´s second point and Shad´s in my head as Dice continues to post. As he said, he had only a few posts and this what was what the focus.

You're really reading way too much into my comment here. It was no accusation at all, I just wanted to know what his reasons were and if they were anything other than a gut feeling. 

 

In my later reads post I gave Shad a slight scum read. How am I defending him exactly?