Tarmon Gai´don Mafia Part 1 - Tel´aran´rhiod

[BFG]

Out of time, I'll be back tonight

[Niniel]

VC

 

RTE (1) - Ley

 

Not voting: Dice, Yates, RTE, AJ, Verbal, Leelou, BFG, Talmanes

 

 

It´s now Day 2. Deadline is Tuesday 9 PM CET. 

 

Countdown

 

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

[Andrej]

Would also like to know why you put Verb and BFG on, considering I have both as town.

 

Basically - I haven't seen anything from them yet that makes me sure, or at least reasonably comfortable, that they aren't scum. Nothing they've done is outside of their scum ranges, so to speak.

 

Why do you have both as town?

[Andrej]

I did.

 

And Zander was accumalating votes very fast, if you hadn't voted him, someone else probably would have. They weren't consolidation votes, mind you.

 

I would probably disagree with you here. Your and my votes were what made Zander a viable wagon, beyond that you had Tal at three and Rhea at two I believe, and it seemed plenty of others were content to go there until Zander became a real option. I may just quote the whole progression again to show you what I mean.

[Andrej]

Not that I necessarily disagree, but it makes me nervous when people focus on clearing themselves first /shrug

 

Can't hate this statement.

 

I need to see more from both of you before I feel comfortable not regarding you as suspects.

[Andrej]

Tinfoil: Talmanes wanted to distance early from his wolfmate Zander, but later flubbed when he tried to switch to RTE and instead was forced to stand there because people were pointing out how weird it was that he was thinking of consolidation at that point.

[Andrej]

Really don't know who I want to vote right now.

 

I think RTE might be a good one to confirm because he was ran up early but our only known scum at this point sort of avoided his wagon despite calling him a scum read.

 

BFG makes me nervous but maybe I'm just being critical.

 

Yates I'm not confident on. His 'gut' vote for me over Zander could easily be done in either alignment and still look genuine.

[Talmanes]

Tinfoil: Talmanes wanted to distance early from his wolfmate Zander, but later flubbed when he tried to switch to RTE and instead was forced to stand there because people were pointing out how weird it was that he was thinking of consolidation at that point.

Except that I maintained that he was my biggest scum read the entire game.

 

RTE is now my number one, but I was trying to wait for more activity before voting. Unless something changes tomorrow RTE will be my vote.

[Andrej]

At face value that all sounds good, Tal. But this game goes deeper than that, which I'm sure you know and understand.

 

Who else besides RTE are you suspicious of?

[Talmanes]

Just saying it's a stretch on your part.

 

I'm waiting

[Talmanes]

Oops. As I was saying: As I said in my read list.

 

I'm waiting for more from Dice, Verb, and BFG to get a better picture.

 

I can't get over the fact that Zander repeatedly said you were Town AJ. You haven't done much to make me suspicious, but that worries me a bit.

 

RTE is my biggest suspect right now. I was going to be looking at Rhea as well, but she's been cleared as Town.

[dicetosser1]

you probably wont get much from me today Tal. My dad had a heart attack yesterday and is on his way to a hospital near me for tests today so im not really gonna be here. Apparently it was only minor but still

[Andrej]

Best wishes to your pops, Dice.

[Andrej]

I can't get over the fact that Zander repeatedly said you were Town AJ. You haven't done much to make me suspicious, but that worries me a bit.

 

Not much I can really say to that. Scum still need to have 'town' reads and I think I have been playing a pretty town motivated game from the get-go. It was easier for him just to right me off as town than try to fabricate a reason to be suspicious of me, imo.

[Talmanes]

@Dice - Definitely understandable, hope all is well.

 

@Andrej - That's why I said you haven't done much to make me suspicious, but I'm looking at all options here. Yes scum need Town reads too, but he was was pretty vocal about you being Town, so I find it worth a second look.

[Yates]

Dice - you're in my thoughts, brother. Let me know if you need to vent.

[Yates]

Yes scum need Town reads too, but he was was pretty vocal about you being Town, so I find it worth a second look.

If you look at the Belicheat or Usual Suspects games, those were Zander's last [and only?] two other scum games here. He generally likes to buddy up to people he thinks will be a threat. That's why his weak push on me was a surprise. So if you think AJ is scum, it isn't for this reason.

[Talmanes]

I'll keep that in mind. Like I said he isn't one of my priorities, just someone I'm watching.

[Niniel]

VC

 

RTE (1) - Ley

 

Not voting: Dice, Yates, RTE, AJ, Verbal, Leelou, BFG, Talmanes

 

 

It´s now Day 2. Deadline is Tuesday 9 PM CET. 

 

Countdown

 

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

 

[BFG]

Morning :)

 

I'm not going to be able to finish a full blooded train analysis before work, so I'm just going to post what I have with 'summary' thoughts, unfortunately it gets less detailed towards the end as I ran out of time. Honestly it hasn't proven as helpful as I hoped.

[BFG]

Joke votes - nothing to say about them, just included so the VC makes sense

 

 

 

[v]Talmanes[/v]

 

You didn't circle one!!

 

 

 

Howdy!

Scummy entry. Per rule 9 you were supposed to vote Verbal.

 

[v]yates[/v]

 

For making up his own rules.

 

 

 

 

 

Howdy!

Scummy entry. Per rule 9 you were supposed to vote Verbal.

 

[v] yates[/v]

For making up his own rules.

 

[v] seph [/v]

 

For raisins

 

 

Sup?

[v] Leelou [/v]

 

Too cool for town school

 

 

 

Kickstarter vote by Yates

 

 

 

 

HA! I even went and glanced at the rule after you posted it, and still missed it.

Is proven wrong.

Admits defeat.

Does not unvote.

 

[unvote]

 

[v]seph[/v]

 

Easy mode, people. You may as well just go ahead and name the rest of your scum team, seph.

 

This and the follow up; engaging Dice and Leelou gave me a very early slight town lean on Yates. Rereading it still does.

 

 

 

Joke votes

 

 

So... Like this? [v] Verbal [/v]

 

But what if I want to vote someone else?

 

 

Kickstarter votes

 

 

 

 

Statistical probability say one of those 5 is scum, btw.

Going back to this.

 

[v]RTE[/v]

 

Come out and play

 

This made me uneasy at the time. RTE is an easy mislynch when town, I kind of automatically view trains on him as suspicious, similarly to Day 1 trains on Thane.

 

I'm more mixed on it now, the 5 people in the statistical probability were included were: AJ, Zander, RTE, Verb and Yates. Verb and Yates had both posted a fair bit, with the Spidey stuff and Zander had posted more recently, so an activity poke makes sense. Given at the time AJ was engaging people in real game talk, I'm more tempted to take it at face value.

 

Andrej is town.

 

Also [unvote] because it's time we get this game started.

 

 

Read based votes

 

 

 

Even for a BT game surprisingly little content thus far but we all need to start somewhere.

 

Two people who stand out most to me so far are Ley and Hallia.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh. Townie Leelou pokes out her head, me likes.

Hallia is trying too hard to look townie and has been doing some buddying and cheerleading so far. Too safe, too "pro-town".

 

Ley is playing way too safe for his usual style. Too reserved, conservative, and logical. He's not being as bold or on edge as usual. Seems fake.

 

Of the two, I'm going to Unvote. Vote Ley.

 

I'm still inclined to think this post comes from Town!RTE more often than mafia!RTE, BUT I can't call it unpressured any more given that apparently he was feeling pressured by AJ (and also Talmanes and Yates), so this may not mean as much as I thought :/

 

 

Well, we are getting serious.

 

I do not post much. I'm full time in school and full time working, so I will post once, maybe twice a day.

 

What I think so far is that there has been a lot of spam. Spiderman/Batman stuff is all fluff.

 

Mostly null reads, typical for D1.

 

--

 

Yates I haven't played with before, not sure yet, pushed to get the game going.

 

RTE typical gameplay from what I've seen.

 

Ley I think I've played one game with a long time ago. Not sure what to think atm. Why is AJ town exactly?

 

Hallia not posting much makes me nervous. Needs to come play.

 

Verbal spam.

 

Seph seems genuine.

 

Zander....Hi! I know you. Not much to go on yet though.

 

Dice is Dice.

 

Leelou..nice to see you! Posting, seems to be asking questions and playing the game.

 

AJ not sure yet. Posts are good so far.

 

Talmanes so far I'm not seeing anything unusual.

 

 

 

--

 

Did I miss anyone?

 

[v]Hallia[/v]

 

I will start there!

We know this was town motivated now.

 

so seeing that i prolly just game solved

 

[v] unvote [/v]

 

[v] Ley [/v]

At this point Zander had mentioned Ley a few times, the strongest point Zander raises is that Ley sounds 'defensive' towards RTE

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/95281-tarmon-gai´don-mafia-part-1-tel´aran´rhiod/page-8#entry3532506

 

 

Not at all, I just don't go around shaking every single tree. First I decide if I think there is anything there too fall out.

 

Moving on:

 

[v] Zander [/v]

 

Out of nowhere you flood the game with halfway coherent halfway spam posts. I already stated I was looking for signs of a potential derail, and you've fulfilled it. You included just enough content to try and ward off suspicion, then started a bandwagon based on someone's opinion, despite the fact that you openly asked for input to back RTEs assumptions.

 

Let seems normal as can be to me, and I've been around him a long time. It seems to me that RTE may be trying to put suspicion on Ley, and have Zander start the bandwagon. Those two are in my short list.

This doesn't really feel like a bus vote. But I need to check the context behind his failed unvote.

 

 

 

 

VC

 

 

Yates (1) - Seph

 

Seph (1) - Yates

 

RTE (1) - AJ

 

Ley (2) - RTE, Zander

 

Hally (1) - Rhea

 

Zander (1) - Talmanes

 

Not voting: Dice, Hally, Verb, Leelou, Ley

 

 

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

 

Deadline is Friday 9 PM CET.

There's not a huge amount to say about the votes at this stage.

[BFG]

I've snipped some nested quotes to fit within limits

 

 

 

Morning.

 

The thing I mentioned with regards to Leelou was because it was basically the first actual game related content to comment on. Six pages of fluff up til that point.

 

 

 

 

<snip>

 

 

Hallia is trying too hard to look townie and has been doing some buddying and cheerleading so far. Too safe, too "pro-town".

 

Ley is playing way too safe for his usual style. Too reserved, conservative, and logical. He's not being as bold or on edge as usual. Seems fake.

 

Of the two, I'm going to Unvote. Vote Ley.

Are...you kidding? Because whatisthisIdon'teven.

 

 

Trying to draw me out isn't going to work, RTE. It doesn't take a lot of reading to realize that, actually, I belong to a minority that has already made a game-related post.

That was true enough to this point.

 

<snip>

 

[v]Hallia[/v]

 

I will start there!

As opposed to...everyone else either not posting or only posting fluff?

 

Vote: RTE

 

because I don't like his play thus far.

 

 

 

I'm still feeling rather strongly that RTE and Zander are likely scum.

I'm wary of Zander, but I think he'd likely try to buddy me as scum. Just a guess but that's my gut.

 

RTE *is* a concern. I'm not satisfied with his responses to my post questioning his reads. This is probably my strongest lead at this point.

 

[unvote]

 

[v]RTE[/v]

 

Have to be quick, at work, don't want to get caught!

 

 

OK...you guys have been busy!

 

No worries Seph.

 

Welcome BFG!

 

 

 

 

So to put it all out there right now by default Yates is on my radar simply because of the spam and the fact I don't know him well enough to know if it's regular posting or an intentional derail.

Let me assuage your fears, since you missed the post where I spelled it out for you. It's an intentional derail. I was trying to intentionally derail the spidey meme in advance. You're welcome.

 

Also, I like playing with myself as much as the next guy but not in internet games. You don't get to accuse me of being spammy when the intent of my spam was clearly stated and I was the only one playing the game at the time.

 

To that end, what was I derailing? I was the only one laying any tracks...

 

Oh the visual! *shakes head* Can't shake it.

 

 

@Leelou: Look at this...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yates I haven't played with before, not sure yet, pushed to get the game going.

How is it Rhea, someone I've never played with before, saw exactly what I was doing and it wasn't completely obvious to you??

 

Not jaded?

 

Honestly though, I did feel like you were just moving to get the game going.

 

 

<snip>

[v]unvote[/v]

 

OK...you are playing and making good conversation now which is a meta thing for me with you tbh. As opposed to everyone else, you were the only one up to that point that was making me nervous. So yeah...I feel better about you now.

 

 

Glad to have a town Hallia up in here

Seems that way. We'll see.

 

 

 

I will post more tonight after I get done with homework.

 

 

[v]RTE[/v]

 

Going with it.

 

@Yates honestly I would be more inclined to think you were scum if you didn't remind me so much of someone I played with a long time ago. Could be really annoying, but had a way of seeking scum.

 

It seems I'm not going to get Zander today so I will wait and [v] Vote RTE [/v] instead. I'm perfectly happy to lynch RTE but I will be watching Zander like a hawk.

meh I think the problem I have with this almost vote is different play styles.

 

RTE had no countertrain at the time, which would normally make me think town, but the way the train later died is also odd. I've missed a post where AJ 'confirms' his vote, elevating it from the kickkstarter vote that it initially was.

 

I am not scum. Those were my impressions at a time when most people weren't giving any. I wanted to get a conversation and gauge a reaction from Ley based on my vote. I think both of these things happen.

 

I think Yates is town here as is Zander. I understand that people who haven't played with him would be wary but his play thus far looks town to me.

 

I find it notoriously difficult to read Hallia. But I do think her early posts looked like someone trying to look very town. This isn't unlike her usual play but it doesn't mean I am not wary of her in most games.

 

I wanted to prod Ley a bit and see what happened. His game was very clean thus far and he was less emotional and reactive than usual. I liked how he responded to me.

 

Verbal is a null for me so I'm wary. I don't play with Leelou enough but I know she is experienced and have played with her before. Won't be able to read her until later.

 

Rhea looks town here. Talmanes I haven't played with yet. Excited to see what BFG brings to the table. Saw nothing noteworthy from Seph.

 

Unvote

 

 

Well, we are getting serious.

 

I do not post much. I'm full time in school and full time working, so I will post once, maybe twice a day.

 

What I think so far is that there has been a lot of spam. Spiderman/Batman stuff is all fluff.

 

 

Hallia not posting much makes me nervous. Needs to come play.

 

 

Dice is Dice.

 

 

--

 

Did I miss anyone?

 

[v]Hallia[/v]

 

I will start there!

What is the difference between Hally and me at this point?

 

 

 

@Zander: My unvote post was without doubt my first game-related post. Also, if I seem defensive to you, well, that sounds good, because I hear that very often when town. Apparently it's part of my meta even though I try not to be too defensive.

no it doesnt

 

someone verify?

 

 

I will confirm that Ley is Defensive a LOT

 

 

@Zander - what have I done to make you think there's any chance I'm scum?

You are in the game

 

 

I doubt he'll say anything to change my mind.

This worries me. We are 14 pages in and ure mind is locked already?

 

 

@RTE my problem with you is that you didn't just throw down a vote, you justified it (though not well) which makes me see it as going for a lynch not a reaction. You're reasoning did not make much sense. And now you seem to only be interested in stalling and getting eyes off you, not moving forward with the game like you claim you were trying to. Instead of giving any new information or insights, you invite and say you really aren't sure who you think is scum. This seems like trying to back down because you know you're found out.

The only reason Zander is higher on mg list than you is because hey jumped on the vote quickly without so much as even coming up with weak accusations like yourself. This seemed like an opportunistic bandwagoning attempt that he tried to hide with spam.

The fact that you are trying to clear him as town makes me even more suspicious of both of you.

But you arnt voting your top scum read on D1 with days left to go because of a lack of support? and voting consolidation already? Not buying.

 

vote Talmanes

 

Pretty confident Dice is town here. The posts he made have the directness that I associate with Town!Dice. I need to see more before I lock it in, but I'm extremely unlikely to be voting here any time soon!!!

 

<snip>

 

And both of these things were covered later. So this leads me to YOUR reads list. What the ACTUAL crap is this? Leelou is DARK green for you? Really?? You quoted her all of zero times and give me exactly zero reasons to be convinced this is a real read. Which is ironic given your RTE read on two levels. One, you are calling RTE "brick red" for doing the same thing and TWO, *I* am the mf-er that challenged RTE on that spurious reads list in the first place, yet you have me firmly in null as if I hadn't already answered all of your concerns above OR driven that conversation.

 

[unvote]

 

RTE jumped to some conclusions on Day 1 with what is POTENTIALLY a fake read list. But I don't understand the CONVICTION with which you or Talmanes are pursuing this wagon as if it is actually a slam-dunk case. It's not. It's just a reasonably mediocre case for a Day 1 lynch. But the more important thing is how people are treating this wagon. And it's fishy.

 

I'm more inclined to vote AJ or Talmanes at this point.

 

I'm going to be traveling for work today but I'm going to reassess the state of the game when I get back. I'm not having fun right now and that usually means it's because one of my friends is scum. And that stinks.

 

I'm always open to change my mind, simply doubted it would happen.

Apparently I forgot to invite Zander and hadn't voted for RTE anyway.

I actually missed the part about being a hybrid game, as I'm used to mod kill if no one chosen, but nevertheless I stand by my actions. I've explained them quite rationally as well.

To prove my point I'll keep my vote on Zander and see how much good it does there verses my second choice.

I don't really like the reason for staying on Zander, but I can't argue with the results

 

I really don't like that read list.

 

 

Unvote

Vote: Rhea

 

My vote isn't anywhere right now, is it?

 

[unvote] just in case.

 

 

VC

 

Yates (1) - Seph

 

RTE (4) - AJ, Hallia, Yates, Leelou

 

Ley (1) - Zander

 

Zander (1) - Talmanes

 

Talmanes (1) - Dice

 

Not voting: Verb, Ley, Rhea, RTE

 

 

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

 

Deadline is Friday 9 PM CET.

Surprisingly there's still not a lot I can say about the votes :/

 

I can't point to something specific that I dislike about the train or votes on RTE. None of the votes feel 'out of place' or 'forced', but I feel uneasy about it anyway.

 

VC

 

Yates (1) - Seph

 

RTE (2) - AJ, Leelou

 

Ley (1) - Zander

 

Zander (1) - Talmanes

 

Talmanes (1) - Dice

 

Rhea (1) - Hallia

 

Not voting: Verb, Ley, Rhea, RTE, Yates

 

 

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

 

Deadline is Friday 9 PM CET.

I find it interesting that the RTE train dies without it being replaced by another. But from 'everyone' talking about RTE it only took a couple of unvotes (one from confirmed town) to end the wagon for the day.

[BFG]

 

 

[unvote]

Thanks Rhea, I feel better about you now.

 

Now, back to RTE. It seems he was content to fade into the background.

 

Come back?

 

My very exciting reads list:

 

Town to Scum lean:

 

Verbal

BFG

Ley

 

Zander

Yates

Andrej

 

Rhea

Dice

Leelou

 

Hallia

Talmanes

 

My names in Orange:

 

The whole thing about the spiderman memes and derailing the thread was in my opinion a very stupid and useless discussion. Seriously. So bad that I am pretty certain one of them is mafia. If not they should all be embarrassed for letting such a dumb and trivial discussion last so long. One of them should be scum. I totally agree with Ley's recent post telling them to drop it and move on. Most unhelpful thing by far during Day 1 (the memes were much better than the stupid never-ending argument that emerged afterwards).

 

I'm still not satisfied Hallia is town and am going scum lean on her. Yates or Andrej pointed out in one of their recent multi-posts that some the statements she is making don't add up and in addition to what I felt previously about her saying Leelou was town so early on have me irked. I need more time to get a better picture of her but right now she is in my bottom two.

 

Lastly is Talmanes. Talmanes not voting for his number one scum pick QUITE early day 1 really stands out to me, as how he changed following people asking him questions on it. It was far too early to be worried about consolidating, no matter what type of hammer. His reasoning and attempt to recover strike me as scummy and he is where my vote is going. [v] Talmanes [/v]

 

 

So, @Zander: Why is your vote still on me?

cause i didnt want you to feel lonely??? lololololol

 

seriously though [v] unvote [/v]

 

 

[unvote]

 

I have just had time to skim the thread to search for votes. If anyone notice anything wrong or have any questions for me, just let me know.

 

 

 

VC

 

 

RTE (2) - AJ, Leelou

 

Zander (1) - Talmanes

 

Talmanes (2) - Dice, RTE

 

 

Not voting: Verb, Ley, Rhea, Yates, Hallia, Zander, BFG

 

 

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

 

 

Countdown

 

Deadline is in 6 hours and 36 minutes.

 

alright: still some time left:

 

PoE-

 

Rhea- Ive touched on this i find her read list especially weird with the BFG read and "explanation/justification"

RTE- ive touched on this though tbf i havent hated his posts since

Yates- *le sigh* Yates i love but i think hes been overly defensive this game at least imo. i think his reaction to MY prod was off as Yates knows how i carry on with jokes and such. but with that said he has made solid points but my gut wont clear him. not a d1 lynch anyways.

 

 

[v] Rhea [/v]

 

lets get this party started!!!

 

[unvote]

 

Could vote Rhea or Talmanes.

 

[unvote]

 

I'm back and forth on Talmanes myself. I thought our exchange and his one with Leelou early on were okay. The biggest point against was his flip flop in attitude for voting Zander and then attempting to consolidate only just to stay on Zander to prove a point when his vote wasn't counted. I don't remember much else from him beyond that.

 

I could vote Rhea in this situation. Not much effort from her yet, though she said she's full time work/school, so I don't wanna fault her too much. Her reads list don't really add up and if she were a new player I might be more lenient on the reason she gave for having players like BFG/Verb up so high but since she isn't I think she would understand there's a difference between town reading someone for their content and town reading someone because "they haven't done anything to not be" or however she said it.

 

Zander is another I could probably vote. Don't feel particularly awesome about him at this point and I think Ley pointing out his parked vote was a good catch. I don't like his response to it at all - gives zero justification and just tries to play it off like it was a joke or something.

 

 

 

Oh, yeah, and I still don't have any idea who I want to vote. I'm thinking about just not voting, but I'm not sure.

That said, this isn't a helpful attitude. While we don't 'need' majority to get a lynch, I would still prefer everyone being on record at the EOD.

 

That's indeed my problem with it too. I think I'm going to [v]Zander[/v] because of his "response".

 

 

RHEA does not have time to expound on anything right now. Look guys...I'm playing crappy so far this game and I apologize. I get that but please understand I'm quite stretched IRL this week and I thought "Hey this is going to be an "easy" game". I should know better! LOL Anyway, I hoped that I would be able to keep up better, but that hasn't been the case so far. I'm trying but I'm rushing through every post and I'm just not making myself look very good. If you want me replaced please ask, otherwise bear with me!

 

Right now I do not have time to ISO. You all want specifics for my reads but I'm sorry you aren't going to get them before the deadline. I worked late yesterday, I had a dinner meeting after work (including booze!). Then I had to do homework until very late which wasn't good after drinking. I am back at work now and until I have time to look at this over this weekend I won't be able to spend the time I need to read and make my thoughts clear. If you've played with me before you should know that I mostly play by my gut and as I've said many times I hate WoT. I don't do a lot of quoting.

 

I'm typing super fast because I only have like 5 min to get this in. So...

 

[v]Talmanes[/v]

 

I'm not going to explain much because I don't have time, but this is the only chance I'm going to have to vote before the deadline. There are two trains, I think Tal is the scummier of the two based on what I have been able to read and what others have said.

 

Pick it apart all you like. It is what it is. I will be back on tomorrow. My life is insane.

 

Rhea out!

 

[v] Rhea [/v]

Could go her or RTE

 

[v]Zander[/v]

 

Gonna go with my gut here.

 

I got pulled from my football camp because someone called out for LegoLand, so now I'm on a field trip and probably won't be able to check in again until I'm off work tonight.

 

[v]Zander[/v] - he hasn't been answering questions seriously and there was something about his vote on Ley that didn't sit well.

 

VC

 

 

 

 

 

 

Zander (4) - Talmanes, Ley, AJ, Leelou

 

Talmanes (3) - Dice, RTE, Rhea

 

Rhea (2) - Zander, Hallia

 

 

Not voting: Verb, Yates, BFG

 

 

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

 

 

Countdown

 

YOLO

 

[v]Zander[/v]

 

VC

 

 

 

 

 

 

Zander (5) - Talmanes, Ley, AJ, Leelou, Verbal

 

Talmanes (3) - Dice, RTE, Rhea

 

Rhea (2) - Zander, Hallia

 

 

Not voting: Yates, BFG

 

 

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

 

 

Countdown

 

Screw it. I'm going with my gut.

 

[v]AJ[/v]

 

[v]Rhea[/v]

 

I don't even feel great about it. But I'd feel less bad being wrong about her than being wrong about Zander.

 

Not that it means anything at this point

 

[v]Zander[/v]

 

[v] Zander [/v]

 

[unvote]

 

[v]Talmame[/v]

 

Scratch that [unvote]

 

I don't believe you

 

[unvote]

 

[v]Rhea[/v]

 

 

 

Final VC Day 1

 

 

Zander (7) - Talmanes, Ley, AJ, Leelou, Verbal, BFG, Hally

 

Talmanes (3) - Dice, RTE, Rhea

 

Rhea (21) - Zander, Hallia

 

AJ (1) - Yates

 

 

Not voting:

 

 

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

 

 

Hallia hammered Zander, no votes after that will count.

 

Zander has been lynched.

This is really strange. Considering that we lynched mafia Day 1, there aren't many people that I feel confident clearing. Nobody really drove the lynch through. Up until Leelou's vote the conversation was pretty much centred on Talmanes/Rhea, (Talmanes, Ley and AJ votes all felt unobtrusive) so I can't give those early votes as much credit as I want to, since it seemed extremely likely at that point that either Talmanes or Rhea would be lynched. Yet there weren't any real pushes on either of the other trains except at the very end when Yates fail voted Rhea. And even the timing of that was 'off' to save Zander if that was the intention.

 

I feel happy with Dice and Leelou as town. AJ and Talmanes are likely town. Ley and Verb were both fairly important momentum votes on Zander. I guess my focus for now will be Yates/RTE, yet both have felt town at some points.

 

A couple of things that stand out...

 

@RTE can you explain your current read on Verb?

 

@Yates can you explain why you were characterising Talmanes as an activity lynch?

[Leyrann]

 

Would also like to know why you put Verb and BFG on, considering I have both as town.

 

Basically - I haven't seen anything from them yet that makes me sure, or at least reasonably comfortable, that they aren't scum. Nothing they've done is outside of their scum ranges, so to speak.

 

Why do you have both as town?

 

 

Because I feel like they are both playing a good game. I do not have them as lock clear though, because I know both are quite experienced players and I know they are probably able to fool me.

 

 

I did.

 

And Zander was accumalating votes very fast, if you hadn't voted him, someone else probably would have. They weren't consolidation votes, mind you.

 

I would probably disagree with you here. Your and my votes were what made Zander a viable wagon, beyond that you had Tal at three and Rhea at two I believe, and it seemed plenty of others were content to go there until Zander became a real option. I may just quote the whole progression again to show you what I mean.

 

 

This thought comes from a normal hammer game, not from a hybrid hammer. Hybrid hammers do not have viable or non-viable trains, the one with most votes simply gets lynched. The only reason to vote someone else than your worst scum read is to save someone you have a town read on (or is a mafia teammate) who has equal votes with the one you vote.

 

Then again, most people think in normal hammer game terms, so maybe the thought is right. It shouldn't be if everyone takes into account the hybrid hammer though.

[Verbal32]

This changes a lot.

 

My POE (still really struggle with this abbreviation) would be: 

 

Dice

Andrej

Verbal

 

Verbal being alive on Day 2? That has to turn some heads

 

Is this real life?!  >_<

 

 

 

No - we're not.

 

Still think he's a suspect though. I'm not giving a ton of credit for being the 5th vote on Zander's wagon for his "YOLO" reasons. Don't think I would count his question towards Zander that was left unanswered as clearing material either.

 

Dude, the yolo was a joke.  I say that line all the time.  It's a dumb line that I find humorous.  Luckily you aren't on Skype calls with me when I yell it out just for the hell of it, heh.

 

I don't need to get credit for voting Zander - that's fine.  I'm not looking for any.  Actually, I don't get why some people have me in POE.  If you (this goes for anybody) think I'm scum, you need to tell me why.  I'm not going to deal with POE comments this game - either support your case, or at least tell me how things I've said are not coming from a townie POV.

 

 

 

 

 

Not sure on BFG, frankly. Not willing to give her the sort of credit I would before for voting late like that. Not condemning her but definitely not clearing her either.

 

I think Leelou looks more town because of the way she's using her vote. Sort of laissez-faire but its effective in the way that it produces results. First was the RTE wagon and then later with Zander. The only way I really see her as scum with Zander is if she's also scum with Verb. There was a little interaction between the two regarding Zander that could be something.

 

I'm not overly concerned with Dice's post count because he's never a top poster, but I would really like to see him getting more involved.

 

I agree that Ley/Tal are most likely town - they are far outside of my POE at this point.

Bold - you'd know by know if we were scum together, we just can't do it.

 

 

Sad, but true.  We have yet to properly co-exist as scum together, at least as long as I can remember.  Not a problem this game, though.  I'm town, and I know you are, too.  Why?  Simple & silly, actually.  You're doing homework BEFORE being asked to.  All those links to posts to support your stances.  None of that happens with scum!Leelou.  Welcome to the first of my blue club, yo!

 

Leelou

 

 

 

 

Not that I necessarily disagree, but it makes me nervous when people focus on clearing themselves first /shrug

 

 

 

Wait a second, we're not seriously going to lynch Verb for "being alive day 2", right?

 

Pretty sure it was a reference to the HP game

 

 

Of course, a neccissary question is also, where does the other kill come from? I'm going to assume Vig or SK for now.

 

If we have a vig, I suppose the setup is most likely 4 mafia 8 town, while if it's an SK, it'll be 3 mafia, 1 SK, 8 town right?

 

 

More likely 9v3 and more likely a vig instead of a SK imo

 

Also I doubt mafia shoots Rhea over Hallia in that situation - and I don't see a SK shooting Rhea over basically ~anyone else.

Pretty much this, Rhea was a ~good Vig shot though

 

 

How was she a good vig shot?  Did you think there were w/w lead wagons D1?  That's the only scenario that I can think of that would make sense to say that....