[Basic] Lolcats: zOMGby Apocalypse - Game Over - Town Win

[Nolder]

Sili, another thing I wanted to say earlier and forgot. You say that having a godfather would have made the results unreliable. But just as easily we could have recruited people who have been copped, making those reads redundant as well. 

 

Also I was pretty surprised when our flip didn't indicate that we were cult. It should have.

Yes.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

I think the statement in the sticky that basic games don't involve recruitment kept people from thinking that. assuming zombies were flavor.

[Kaylee]

I think the statement in the sticky that basic games don't involve recruitment kept people from thinking that. assuming zombies were flavor.

This

[Sili Quirrels]

honestly

[Cory Caboose]

TinaGOAT

LOL RED

 

For the record I don't believe Sili self-hammering was at all "gamethrowing" or out of line; he was in a basically unwinnable situation and there is no shame in conceded in that spot at all.

With that said, I don't think any player deserved the torture of his situation more, so chalk it up to karma and move on.

 

GG Next one

[Sili Quirrels]

i don't regret killing nolder as much as i should.

[Nolder]

Next time.

[dicetosser1]

/I agree that nyns flip should have said cult.

 

I think rather then GF that the recruitment could be passed on. that still means game could be over D1 i suppose but then I never expected it to start with only one mafia member. I automatically assumed 2.

 

 

for the record  its not the self hammer I have a problem with. Its the info posts AFTER that that i think should not happen.

[Sili Quirrels]

I don't get it. I don't think the forum takes mafia too serious, so posting after death when the game is over shouldn't be a problem.

[Cory Caboose]

for the record  its not the self hammer I have a problem with. Its the info posts AFTER that that i think should not happen.

 

he was the last member of the wolfgroup and conceded

 

conceding when you ~0 shot to win is fine

 

i don't get the problem tbh

[Cory Caboose]

if you don't like people posting after lynches, don't allow night talk

 

DM typically is fine with night talk, but you can always close the thread upon maj and at least have people not post or w/e

 

many forums do this typically

[Nolder]

Yeah he pretty much had no way to win, I'm not bugged by it really. He saved us time. I would have been more frustrated had we continued play and wasted several days worth of time only to lynch him later.

[dicetosser1]

I just think its bad to one up the mod. It is their job to do your flip. they may have a really cool scene to go with it that you spilling the beans may ruin or cause them to go "screw it whats the point now?" and what if there had been a mistake in the votes? too bad game over now.

[Nolder]

I think in general you have a point...but this case seems to be the exception to me.

[Red2111]

self votes are legit game play, as is self hammering as anti-town cause you're giving up *shrugs*  tbh i'm surprised Sili didn't get more pressure from the "you villagers want to vote no lynch" slip he had D3.  classic Freudian slip imo and used to garner a lot of pressure.

 

 

I think the statement in the sticky that basic games don't involve recruitment kept people from thinking that. assuming zombies were flavor.

This

 

 
and that was an assumption the players made. there were hints at this being a cult game *shrugs*  imo this is a good example of where speculation about the set up can hurt the town, especially when some come out of the gate trying to focus on the set up rather than scum hunting.
 
if you think about it, Zombies recruit by killing.  they bite, they feed, but they person they "kill" comes back as an undead and spreads the infection.
 
 
this sort of set up would be the power role wise if it was just an SK versus town, which i thought about doing for this theme but thought the cult seemed more appropriate given the theme (plus DM hasn't had a cult only game in a very long time)
 
the game was balanced from the beginning if you think about long term.   Cult is over powered in itself, its a silent killer that avoids detection and kills the town by recruitment.  the town needs to be able to combat the cult by both having a way to find recruited members and block the recruit.  a cult is very hard to balance against *nods*  most games keep it in check by adding a scum team.  i have another idea on how to balance out the cult, by adding an antidote ...  and isn't something i'm going to go in depth about *grins*
 
the downside is that theres more chance of the Finder not findings any Zombies until almost YOLO, which leads the finder to either waste a view on themselves (to check sanity) or to start to believe their naive.  given this long term aspect on the Finder, making the cult leader a GF as well would have been overpowered towards the cult.  add onto it, that the Healer would also start to doubt their role's effectiveness after many nights of no NK's (Kaytress were already starting to do this).  and on top of that, both the Finder and Healer could have been recruited  (just as the Cult Leader could have been found by the Finder, or had their recruit blocked by the Healer, either by being targeted themselves or having their recruit targeted).
 
 
the reason why this was a basic game is because it depended less on roles for winning the game and more on the skill of the players.

[Niniel]

Thanks for the game, Red. 

[Turin Turambar]

2c from the peanut gallery.

 

Cult is nearly impossible to balance in this small a game.I agree that making the CL also a GF is OP. I think the best way to.balance might be to give the cult a second member to start and perhaps limit their recruits.

I also think that at least the doc should have been informed of what their actual role was. Make it so they can not put out to all that they are protecting from cult but at least they know that just because the person protected that night didn't turn doesn't mean they are guaranteed townie.

 

 

Finally, on day 1 my top 3 for mafia were Nyn, Sili and Pral. Although I was only 1 of 3 then I didn't see it as a slam dunk that they cruise if not viewed N1.

 

Interesting game. Can we get more lolcat pics now?

[Songstress]

Our role PM was worded as "protects from zombie bites", but as neither of us expected a basic game to be a cult game (regardless of size, conversion games are considered advanced on this board per Verb's sticky) we figured zombie bite was flavor for mafia kill.

 

Now that we know Red considers cult fair game in a Basic, it all makes much more sense.

[Cory Caboose]

Now that we know Red considers cult fair game in a Basic, it all makes much more sense.

 

 

 

There will be 2 types of games running on this board - Basic Mafia & Advanced Mafia.

 

A Basic game will contain standard mafia roles. There are no recruiting roles 

 

I guess we don't really abide by basic/advanced anymore

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

if "we" means Red, ya, guess so. otherwise I'd go by the sticky unless verb changes it.

 

it was a very interesting game to read. sili did the best he could. I feel bad for the innocent kitty waking up zombied.

[Red2111]

@ Cory - as i stated. i submitted the game as basic and had it checked for balance by the mafia board.

 

tbh i considered calling the game when the cult leader got nixed with only having recruited one person, or allowing the recruit to pass onto Sili ... but imo that would have made things worse. allowing the recruit to pass would change the balance and design that kept this game in the basic category ... and killing the entire cult with the leader in a basic game isn't kosher.

 

Sili's position was hard, but not unwinnable. essentially he became a survivor, and people have been able to be a last man standing in a game before if they have the skill for it. as mod, i had no cause or reason to kill off the entire cult just because there was only 1 recruit. he could still theoretically achieve the win condition.

 

 

Thanks for the game, Red.

glad you enjoyed it GOATFinder.

 

when you said N0 that you were gonna view Verb i was like "well this is going to be interesting ... never expected that" xD

 

 

Our role PM was worded as "protects from zombie bites", but as neither of us expected a basic game to be a cult game (regardless of size, conversion games are considered advanced on this board per Verb's sticky) we figured zombie bite was flavor for mafia kill.

 

Now that we know Red considers cult fair game in a Basic, it all makes much more sense.

its not what i consider fair game in a basic, that choice isn't up to me. i think in this case, the only reason why it was considered basic is because cult was the only anti-town faction in the game. and there were only 3 Power Roles in the entire game

[Nynaeve]

There is absolutely no way Sili could have won the game without having no NKs and not being able to recruit. That's a fact. It doesn't matter how skilled he is or isn't. No one would lynch the cop in this scenario. And eventually she would have viewed him. There's really no arguement there.

 

And as far as I'm concerned, every game that can essentially end at D1 is not a balanced one.

 

As far as why this game was approved as a basic one.... that you prolly need to take up with whoever approved it. But I'm personally not that invested to inquire about it. Game is over anyhow so seems kinda pointless.

[Turin Turambar]

Tina, did you mod that BT cult game. IIRC the cult leader got offed very early and the cult ( me and Rand I think) were left with no kill and somehow managed to win. We did have two people but were in very bad shape. I would need to reread it to remember how we did win.

[Sili Quirrels]

from my point of view, the problem here was, while i might have been able to lynch the cleareds at some point, it wouldn't have gotten me anywhere quick enough to avoid tina's peek. the quickest way to do it was to convince people tina was recruited, but this was also impossible until the doc died due to the way nyn was flipped, and the roles phrased, and the standard for basic games.

[Verbal32]

If I had realized Tina was playing on N1 when I wanted to recruit Sili, I would have waited on him and recruited Tina instead.  She always views me N1 when she's Cop.

 

Admittedly, it kinda sucks to lose N1 because of a player's habit.  I should have seen that and recruited her instead - my bad team.

 

 

2c from the peanut gallery.

Cult is nearly impossible to balance in this small a game.I agree that making the CL also a GF is OP. I think the best way to.balance might be to give the cult a second member to start and perhaps limit their recruits.
I also think that at least the doc should have been informed of what their actual role was. Make it so they can not put out to all that they are protecting from cult but at least they know that just because the person protected that night didn't turn doesn't mean they are guaranteed townie.


Finally, on day 1 my top 3 for mafia were Nyn, Sili and Pral. Although I was only 1 of 3 then I didn't see it as a slam dunk that they cruise if not viewed N1.

Interesting game. Can we get more lolcat pics now?

 

Disagree.  I would have been a slam dunk because we likely would not have been viewed until after a few recruits - at that point, it would have been too difficult for town to figure out their top town reads were all cult.