Cleanse the Tower - Black Tower Mafia Day 2

[Kivam]

 

UnOfficial Vote Count 2:

 

Turin (1/9): Kivam

Kivam (1/9): Ley

WoT (2/9): Ithi, Phoenix

Pheonix (2/9): Tina, Turin

 

Not Voting (10/16):

RTE, Dice, Thane, Len, Tommy, Laya, WoT, Locke, AJ, Yates

 

 

 

 

[Turin Turambar]

 

 

[v] ## 24 hours [/v]

 

Anything less than that benefits mafia IMO... :P

explain your reasoning, why do you think it benefits mafia to have less than 24 hours? I could say anything

but red writing benefits the mafia, but that neither explains my reasoning or makes it valid. Considering no majority needs to be reached your vote comes across as a mafia just trying to make sure you have a vote on the board.

Later on I believe you stated that shorter deadlines benefit mafia. That it was mafia 101 in effect. Why are you acting that it isn't obvious? Mafia need to pretend to be town. The more time they have to do so, the less likely they manage to pull it off without slipping or getting caught in contradictory statements. The less time in a day, the easier it is for mafia to get by without taking stances that they will have to stick to later or at least explain reasonably why they changed.

 

With regards to your red writing example that is just silly. Writing formats have no.meaning. the length of a day phase does. Longer is better. IMO especially on day 1.

 

The silliness of your attack here makes me wonder if Ithi might be correct in thinking you and Time are w/w. That she seems to.be floundering a bit in her responses have me wondering if it is her that is supposed to die to try to.make you.look good.

 

I am less sure of her as mafia than I am of you. Your case is rubbish. If she is mafia you still likely are as well.

[Turin Turambar]

 

 

I love that all we're talking about is mechanics.

How is that a bad way to catch scum? Generally, scum will want mechanics that we can influence to work in their advantage, and therefore they'll try to push everyone in a for them advantageous direction. For example saying "we only have limited time" and then wanting to make the days much shorter than logically needed, because if we run such short days without catching mafia we'd already have lost due to mafia majority before we were out of time anyways.

Speaking of slips, is this one? Opinions please.

[Gabriel Kross]

ummm actually I said time debates are completely pointless, my focuse on Time is that that she made a statement with no reason just to be seen making a statement with a vote common mafia tactics.

 

 

as far as your reaching on Ley it's plainly obious what he's saying. Reacher no reaching.

[Turin Turambar]

 

 

I did give a reason why I think it would benefit mafia, but i will expand on it... because everybody would be in a scramble to lynch somebody with so little time, it's more than likely it would be a town member, or we have no lynch due to all the scrambling around in which case it will be easier to be picked off and people are less likely to form complete opinions or make observations.

Oh lets also add a misrepresentation of the rules to the list. Darthe has said we do not need to reach a majority by deadline. The person with the most votes dies regardless, and in the case of a tie it's decided by coin toss. It's litreraly in the mecanics section of the opening post.

 

Secondly let me tell yo why all of this debate on time is pointless. I have reasons.

1) Outcome is the same no matter what. Somone will be lynched, information will be gained about the day's stances, and we transition into night.

2)Shorter time means more possibility for mistakes on both sides, but far greater on the side of the mafia due to the fact they need to manipulate the ebb and flow of the game.

3)More time means people just putting off for later what could be settled sooner, with excuses like "let me sleep on it"

4) Mafia want us to run out of time or lynch town members so whether we have little time and end up lynching a town member or have a lot of time and maybe get a mafia player odds are it will still be in mafia's favor.

 

There is no right or wrong answer on how much time we chose hence why I selected 16 as its a compromise between the 2 opposing opptions we had.

First about Time's post. I find it highly unlikely that a mafioso would not read up and try to fully understand the rules regarding lynches. Additionally teammates would be talking about them and how best to twist them to.mafia advantage. I seriously doubt Time posts this error as mafia unless it is to allow EP to call her out for it. As to the content my read is that she believes that the short deadline will prevent enough time to effectively hunt the mafia. I agree with that. (It is possible that I am reading it so that she does agree with me because I think.I am right here)

 

Now EP

1. someone will be lynched but the chances are we will get less information because it us easier to dodge the thread for 12 hours than it is for 24( or 48, which I think would have been optimal for day 1). How many people have not contributed so far? We are approaching rapidly what would have been the minimal deadline. Who shouldbe the lynch? What information have we gained with a town flip on time for example?

 

2. Bullshanks. The only way the short deadline hurts mafia is if one of them steps in it early. With little content due to short deadline it us unlikely that happend. Far more likely they are able to get a townie lynched due to bad feels or some such nonsense.

 

3. More bantha poodoo. It is the towns job to.make good use of the time given. But there has to be a reasonable amount of time to begin with. Everyone is starting from basically zero. We have our role pm and know our own alignment and that is basically it. It takes time to get a feel for the game. You.mentioned once that it takes several days to catch mafia. Since it takes time doesn't it make more sense to give yourself time on the front end? I think yes.

 

4. Complete malarkey. If we take our time. Use it wisely and lynch mafia then we are well ahead of if we rush through the day and lynch a townie because we are afraid of running out of time down the road. The key to this game is to lynch mafia, just like any other. We do it we get rewarded with extra time. We fail, and we lose time as well as numbers.

 

The point being made was that ANY LIMIT LESS THAN 24 HOURS was bad. Therefore picking a number <24 hours was not really a compromise. If that had been your intent you probably should have chosen 18 as that is the midpoint between the two.

 

BTW, I decided that 48 hours for day one would have been optimal after I slept on it and reassessed the situation. So don't hate on sleep. I wish I lived on east coast, I might have been able to get it.

[Turin Turambar]

ummm actually I said time debates are completely pointless, my focuse on Time is that that she made a statement with no reason just to be seen making a statement with a vote common mafia tactics.

 

 

as far as your reaching on Ley it's plainly obious what he's saying. Reacher no reaching.

Time debates pointless? Why? Your reasoning given earlier leaves much to be desired. Mafia would want a deadline that gives them advantage. So if shorter deadlines give them advantage(my belief), then it makes sense to question those that wanted shorter deadlines. Especially those that are discounting lynching mafia day one.

 

See you are contradicting yourself in that you say she gave no reason and then say she was using common mafia tactics. Which would be a reason. Maybe even a good reason since there is a reason for tactics to be classed as common.

 

Your position on Ley is noted. thank you.

 

I.need to sleep now. Another long day tomorrow.

[Locke]

Sigh, didn't have enough time to get through everything yet. I'll post my thoughts later.

[Kivam]

 

 

I did give a reason why I think it would benefit mafia, but i will expand on it... because everybody would be in a scramble to lynch somebody with so little time, it's more than likely it would be a town member, or we have no lynch due to all the scrambling around in which case it will be easier to be picked off and people are less likely to form complete opinions or make observations.

Oh lets also add a misrepresentation of the rules to the list. Darthe has said we do not need to reach a majority by deadline. The person with the most votes dies regardless, and in the case of a tie it's decided by coin toss. It's litreraly in the mecanics section of the opening post.

 

Secondly let me tell yo why all of this debate on time is pointless. I have reasons.

1) Outcome is the same no matter what. Somone will be lynched, information will be gained about the day's stances, and we transition into night.

2)Shorter time means more possibility for mistakes on both sides, but far greater on the side of the mafia due to the fact they need to manipulate the ebb and flow of the game.

3)More time means people just putting off for later what could be settled sooner, with excuses like "let me sleep on it"

4) Mafia want us to run out of time or lynch town members so whether we have little time and end up lynching a town member or have a lot of time and maybe get a mafia player odds are it will still be in mafia's favor.

 

There is no right or wrong answer on how much time we chose hence why I selected 16 as its a compromise between the 2 opposing opptions we had.

First about Time's post. I find it highly unlikely that a mafioso would not read up and try to fully understand the rules regarding lynches. Additionally teammates would be talking about them and how best to twist them to.mafia advantage. I seriously doubt Time posts this error as mafia unless it is to allow EP to call her out for it. As to the content my read is that she believes that the short deadline will prevent enough time to effectively hunt the mafia. I agree with that. (It is possible that I am reading it so that she does agree with me because I think.I am right here)

 

Now EP

1. someone will be lynched but the chances are we will get less information because it us easier to dodge the thread for 12 hours than it is for 24( or 48, which I think would have been optimal for day 1). How many people have not contributed so far? We are approaching rapidly what would have been the minimal deadline. Who shouldbe the lynch? What information have we gained with a town flip on time for example?

 

2. Bullshanks. The only way the short deadline hurts mafia is if one of them steps in it early. With little content due to short deadline it us unlikely that happend. Far more likely they are able to get a townie lynched due to bad feels or some such nonsense.

 

3. More bantha poodoo. It is the towns job to.make good use of the time given. But there has to be a reasonable amount of time to begin with. Everyone is starting from basically zero. We have our role pm and know our own alignment and that is basically it. It takes time to get a feel for the game. You.mentioned once that it takes several days to catch mafia. Since it takes time doesn't it make more sense to give yourself time on the front end? I think yes.

 

4. Complete malarkey. If we take our time. Use it wisely and lynch mafia then we are well ahead of if we rush through the day and lynch a townie because we are afraid of running out of time down the road. The key to this game is to lynch mafia, just like any other. We do it we get rewarded with extra time. We fail, and we lose time as well as numbers.

 

The point being made was that ANY LIMIT LESS THAN 24 HOURS was bad. Therefore picking a number <24 hours was not really a compromise. If that had been your intent you probably should have chosen 18 as that is the midpoint between the two.

 

BTW, I decided that 48 hours for day one would have been optimal after I slept on it and reassessed the situation. So don't hate on sleep. I wish I lived on east coast, I might have been able to get it.

 

The bold is pretty much exactly what I said.  But she later clarified she understood the mechanic fine, was just using a pretty damn silly semantic definition of "lynch"

 

I completely disagree with your logic on longer v. shorter on D1, for reasons already posted

[Kivam]

ummm actually I said time debates are completely pointless, my focuse on Time is that that she made a statement with no reason just to be seen making a statement with a vote common mafia tactics.

 

 

as far as your reaching on Ley it's plainly obious what he's saying. Reacher no reaching.

 

Not sure why you are dismissing that so quickly.  It's actually not a bad catch.  Trying to think of how I might write "we" there as a townie, and coming up blank. You got anything, Phoenix? 

[Gabriel Kross]

here copied from turin's post: my comment didn't say it was a one alignment or the other comment but let me simplify it by replacing a single word that doesn't change the meaning in any way

 

Generally, scum will want mechanics that we can influence to work in their advantage, and therefore they'll try to push everyone in a for them advantageous direction

 

Generally, scum will want mechanics that players can influence to work in their advantage, and therefore they'll try to push everyone in a for them advantageous direction

 

See very simple interpretation that actually reveals nothing.

[Kivam]

here copied from turin's post: my comment didn't say it was a one alignment or the other comment but let me simplify it by replacing a single word that doesn't change the meaning in any way

 

Generally, scum will want mechanics that we can influence to work in their advantage, and therefore they'll try to push everyone in a for them advantageous direction

 

Generally, scum will want mechanics that players can influence to work in their advantage, and therefore they'll try to push everyone in a for them advantageous direction

 

See very simple interpretation that actually reveals nothing.

Except it's insanely awkward; if I'm town and writing about scum (or scum trying to look town), I write "they", especially since the mechanical influence only makes sense if its the scum specifically, not players generally.

 

And if you notice, he did actually put "they" everywhere else.

 

But I'm curious - why the impassioned defense?

[Lenlo]

 

And that means that D1, which is a day on which we can't reasonably expect to lynch scum, needed to be a short day.  And I'll go out on a limb and say that D2 probably should be relatively short as well, because we need to maximize our time on days when we can expect to lynch scum.

I think you are being wonky with your math. Nights are 12 hours. Even if we set ALL days to 24 hours, we get 5 days plus 8 hours on Day 6 assuming we lynch ZERO scum. I'll tell you what, we don't deserve to win if we haven't lynched scum in a 16 player game by Day 6.

 

Also, you forget that days where we have a guilty result on a player don't need to be very long. Plus days with fewer players require less discussion as well. So, really, days can get SHORTER as we progress because we'll have more info to help us make better decisions faster.

 

Like, Day 3 would probably be a good day to reserve now as a 12 hour day. At that point our PR's would have two nights worth of investigation results.

 

So I propose D2 is 20 hours and Day 3 is 12 hours. That gives us a full 24 hours for Day 6 and beyond, not counting the time we get back plus the bonus 12 hours when we lynch scum. If we catch scum by day 3? We can "reward" ourselves by adding 4 hours to our days for each scum we catch.

 

For the bolded: If your focusing on PR results then rapid day/night cycles get us those two. Thing is I doubt Darthe will let the PRs say anything during the night incase they are NKed.

 

I think 24 hours for a day is plenty. Look because of the time right away this game is in overdrive, where normally the first 11 pages is complete crap.

 

I love that all we're talking about is mechanics.

The mechanics in this game are rather unique and an integral part, to be frank.

 

[v]##Time[/v]

 

I like where Kivam's head is at, I agree with him on the time thing and hes already argued its merits much better than I could. Lawyered, as his siggie says. For EP I wanna get a chance to read him better. Its been a long time since ive played with him and I remember him doin some pretty cray cray stuff before he stopped. Time though, Time I have played with more recently.

[Gabriel Kross]

 

here copied from turin's post: my comment didn't say it was a one alignment or the other comment but let me simplify it by replacing a single word that doesn't change the meaning in any way

 

Generally, scum will want mechanics that we can influence to work in their advantage, and therefore they'll try to push everyone in a for them advantageous direction

 

Generally, scum will want mechanics that players can influence to work in their advantage, and therefore they'll try to push everyone in a for them advantageous direction

 

See very simple interpretation that actually reveals nothing.

Except it's insanely awkward; if I'm town and writing about scum (or scum trying to look town), I write "they", especially since the mechanical influence only makes sense if its the scum specifically, not players generally.

 

And if you notice, he did actually put "they" everywhere else.

 

But I'm curious - why the impassioned defense?

 

not a defense, that's literaly how I read the sentence the first time I read it.

[Ithillian Turambar]

it's just as good as a lynch due to the fact someone dies and we get info on that death and the people who were voting for/not voting for that person

 

 

also of note Time has an awkward attempt at distancing from Kivam and Kivam comes to her defense, I can very confidently say both Time and Kivam are mafia.

There we go.

 

Time and Kivam and EP.

 

I'm reading all of their syntax in this game and it all comes across as very controlled, very precise and very lawyery. Kivam is playing the Town organiser and pusher of votes. EP and Time are having their falling out over mechanics. There's so much similarity in how their posts are formed I have to check afterwards to see which one of them is typing. There's some serious plotting occurring.

 

and EP can very confidently say that Kivam and Time are both Mafia - and mentions Kivam's amazing gambits.

 

AND they're still fluffing up the game with mechanics talk.

[Gabriel Kross]

 

it's just as good as a lynch due to the fact someone dies and we get info on that death and the people who were voting for/not voting for that person

 

 

also of note Time has an awkward attempt at distancing from Kivam and Kivam comes to her defense, I can very confidently say both Time and Kivam are mafia.

There we go.

 

Time and Kivam and EP.

 

I'm reading all of their syntax in this game and it all comes across as very controlled, very precise and very lawyery. Kivam is playing the Town organiser and pusher of votes. EP and Time are having their falling out over mechanics. There's so much similarity in how their posts are formed I have to check afterwards to see which one of them is typing. There's some serious plotting occurring.

 

and EP can very confidently say that Kivam and Time are both Mafia - and mentions Kivam's amazing gambits.

 

AND they're still fluffing up the game with mechanics talk.

 

unfortunately for you no plotting from me

[Locke]

Turin's arguments about the time mechanic have consistently made very little sense to me. That said, I don't see a mafia taking that position so strongly, so I'm leaning more Turin -> Town for now. 
 

Vote: ## EP
 
I don't like his desire for a short day. I think that plays more into mafia than to town. There is more to day than EOD.
 
I don't like his reasoning for voting Time. She had no reason to vote at all. Her reasoning sounded reasonable to me. Plus the manner of it just wrong.
 
I don't like his response to Ithi's vote which was to deflect it as saying she always does that. I don't believe it to be true. 
I also don't like his post about how it takes days to find a mafia because he is always getting tunneled. Sounds like AtE to me. 
 
It all adds up to >>>rand to be mafia in my book.

 
Still, don't like the sound of this post. This looks to me like a post that's meant to look like good scumhunting, but is just really filled with a long list of flimsy points, as if you're looking for anything to pad your argument to look more reasonable.  A bunch of "I don't like" and vague statements like "the manner of it is just wrong". A lot of quantity, not much quality.
 
 

Moving on, at the top of my list is....WheelofTime!

[v] ## 24 hours [/v]

Anything less than that benefits mafia IMO... :P

 
When Time posts this, most people have voted for 24 hour with a couple voting for less. She doesn't give any reason, but says that anything less benefits mafia...which sounds to me like an early subtle attempt at nudging a bandwagon towards one of the few who voted for a shorter time.
 

 

 

Your point about the red text is illogical due to the fact that it automatically becomes red when you type in the vote code, and anything less than 24 hours benefits mafia because the shorter amount of time town has, the more likely it will be to be picked off due to the fact that not everybody knows who town is.

 
A townie is going to die day 1. Accept it, and focus on using D1 to develop sufficient information to make that sacrifice meaningful.  Spending more time on D1 spam and silliness isn't beneficial to the town in the long run when the game has a total time clock that benefits scum

 

I am not understanding what you see in my post that shows silliness... While there is a greater chance of losing a townie, there is no guarantee that we won't lynch scum... My saying that those who want less time are more likely to benefit mafia should be seen as a valid point because the less amount of day there is, the quicker they can night kill a member of town, so therefore mafia is likely to be among those who don't want a long day... This will be good to keep in mind when deciding who to lynch...

 

 
Again...(not so subtle this time) 
 

 

For day 1?  [v]##6 hours[/v].  In a game with a clock, I'd rather compress D1's sillyness and save time for scumhunting on later days.

 
usually it is the middle days that have the most success at scum being lynched... at least in my experience. and six hours?? i know we have a certain amount of time we are able to use, but considering the fact (i know it has already been pointed out, but this point is very important) we have people in different time zones, jobs, school or something else, it is an unreasonable and unrealistic amount of time to get anything done or give anybody a chance to get anything done.
 

ok. [v]##12 hours[/v]

 
what are you saying ok to? and while 12 hours is definitely better than 6, it still is not enough time (sleeping on something is important and you are more likely to notice more or make better decisions)

 

 
Not sure why you're going back to these posts at the beginning of the thread now? 
 
FoS @ WheelofTime

[v] ## Leyrann [/v]
Let's hear an explanation Ley.  I generally don't take much stock in Freudian slips (I've never actually seen a legit one), but this one here is quite peculiar...I'm not sure how EP read it that way; I definitely wouldn't have taken it that way at first glance...

[Leyrann]

Looks like it's actually good that I decided to read up before going to school... People really fell over that "we"? Oh well. Will explain it with the posts that fall over it.

 

Actually Leyrann to be honest I've only skimmed your posts the green is hard for me to read these days since my setup is different than it used to be. Also I voted for 16 hours, I don't like the option of limiting it to just basicall 3 strikes your out kind of thing. In games I've played in the past it generally took atleast 4 attempts to bag the first mafia member. (sure it was mostly because peope were focused on me most of the time, but who's counting?)

 

You do realize that we can do 4 days (strikes, in your terms) of 36 hours? And if we do less, mafia has a majority before we are out of time, so there is no reason to do that. Day 2 should be 36 hours and day 3 should be 48 hours, getting the 12 we didn't use for day 1.

 

 

VOTE COUNT:

 

Yates - 1 - Kivam

Turin Turambar- 1 - Leyrann

Wheeloftime - 2 - Eternal Phoenix, Ithillian

Eternal Phoenix - 1 - TinaHel

 

Not voting: 11 ( RTE, Dice, Thane, Lenlo, Turin Turanbar, Tommy, Laya, Wheeloftime, Locke, AJ, Yates)

 

Day phase ends at 12:15 PM Eastern time on 12/9.  With 16 alive, it's 9 to lynch.

 

 

I am voting Kivam, and have been all the time. I don't know where you get from that I'm voting Turin.

 

 

 

I love that all we're talking about is mechanics.

How is that a bad way to catch scum? Generally, scum will want mechanics that we can influence to work in their advantage, and therefore they'll try to push everyone in a for them advantageous direction. For example saying "we only have limited time" and then wanting to make the days much shorter than logically needed, because if we run such short days without catching mafia we'd already have lost due to mafia majority before we were out of time anyways.

Speaking of slips, is this one? Opinions please.

 

 

I'm talking about the length of day, that we can influence by voting. Just like mafia wants lynches, which we, as players, can influence, to work in their advantage, they will want the day lengths to work into their advantage. As "a mechanic that we can influence", I just meant "something that's not set and influencable by the players".

 

(also, before you start talking about how I don't call "we" town, but "players", you'd probably fall over me doing that too, as trying to clear myself too much, and on top of that mafia has influence too)

 

 

here copied from turin's post: my comment didn't say it was a one alignment or the other comment but let me simplify it by replacing a single word that doesn't change the meaning in any way

 

Generally, scum will want mechanics that we can influence to work in their advantage, and therefore they'll try to push everyone in a for them advantageous direction

 

Generally, scum will want mechanics that players can influence to work in their advantage, and therefore they'll try to push everyone in a for them advantageous direction

 

See very simple interpretation that actually reveals nothing.

Except it's insanely awkward; if I'm town and writing about scum (or scum trying to look town), I write "they", especially since the mechanical influence only makes sense if its the scum specifically, not players generally.

 

And if you notice, he did actually put "they" everywhere else.

 

But I'm curious - why the impassioned defense?

 

 

I indeed put "they" everywhere else. Because only "they" do that, while "we" (all) can influence lynches and day length. I don't find it so weird EP interpreted it right. More that other people interpreted it wrong.

 

 

it's just as good as a lynch due to the fact someone dies and we get info on that death and the people who were voting for/not voting for that person
 
 
also of note Time has an awkward attempt at distancing from Kivam and Kivam comes to her defense, I can very confidently say both Time and Kivam are mafia.

There we go.

Time and Kivam and EP.

I'm reading all of their syntax in this game and it all comes across as very controlled, very precise and very lawyery. Kivam is playing the Town organiser and pusher of votes. EP and Time are having their falling out over mechanics. There's so much similarity in how their posts are formed I have to check afterwards to see which one of them is typing. There's some serious plotting occurring.

and EP can very confidently say that Kivam and Time are both Mafia - and mentions Kivam's amazing gambits.

AND they're still fluffing up the game with mechanics talk.

 

 

I don't believe mechanics talk on day one is bad though... There's not much to go after except for disagreeing about mechanics and, later on the day, weak reasoning. I agree with the rest of the post, except that I'm not sure yet about the Time part.

 

Also, I didn't quote any of his posts, but I don't really like how EP is putting up his defense. It comes up as illogical at a few points. I'm still happy with my vote on Kivam though.

[Leyrann]

Oops, forgot to colour that last part.

 

Anyway, I wanted to make a clear post to end this day length discussion for good.

 

Day length:

 

We have 192 hours. 12 of them end in night every time.

 

If we want to use everything in 2 days, we have 96 hours per cycle, or 84 hours of day per cycle.

If we want to use everything in 3 days, we have 64 hours per cycle, or 52 hours of day per cycle.

If we want to use everything in 4 days, we have 48 hours per cycle, or 36 hours of day per cycle.

If we want to use everything in 5 days, we have 38 hours per cycle, or 26 hours of day per cycle, and then 2 hours left.

If we want to use everything in 6 days, we have 32 hours per cycle, or 20 hours of day per cycle.

 

Now, how many days do we want? We take the standard setup of 12 town 4 mafia. First, we think about worst case:

Every day, a townie gets lynched, every night, a townie gets nk'ed.

After 4 days, we're down to 4 town and 4 mafia. Mafia wins because town cannot get a majority.

 

What if we catch a mafia? The game can become 1 day/night cycle longer because we go down to 3/3 before losing. We also get the time of the day/night cycle back.

 

What if an nk gets blocked? The game would be down to 5/4 at the same point. In that case, we have to do something else. I would say, that making the upcoming day 12 hours shorter should be sufficient. It would give us an extra day, and if we don't catch a mafia, we have lost after that. And of course there are other advantages to blocked nk's. Alternatively, we could not use the 12 spare hours from day 1 on day 3, and have those around for if an nk is blocked, and have the fifth day be 24 hours in length.

 

TL:DR: Days of 36 hours won't get us into trouble.

[Locke]

I indeed put "they" everywhere else. Because only "they" do that, while "we" (all) can influence lynches and day length. I don't find it so weird EP interpreted it right. More that other people interpreted it wrong.

 

 

Okay, I get it now. I was reading it wrong before. You were talking about mechanics in a general. It's a weird/kind of awkward thing to say, but it doesn't imply a potential slip.

 

Unvote

 

Vote: ## WheelofTime

[Thane Vakarian]

i'm more or less here, will be catching up and ITT when i get to work in a few hours. It's a pain in the ass reading notifications and finding out they're not in order....

[dicetosser1]

##vote ep

 

 

I think hes being TOO full on about the whole time factor. it feels fake.

[Locke]

##vote ep

 

 

I think hes being TOO full on about the whole time factor. it feels fake.

 

Could you elaborate a little? 

[Gabriel Kross]

Dice are you talking about my case on Time, or my case on the mechanic of time?

[dicetosser1]

clock time.

 

your just too strident. Turin pointed out a bit where you kinda backflipped on what ud said as well regarding it.

 

it feels fake to me

[Gabriel Kross]

clock time.

 

your just too strident. Turin pointed out a bit where you kinda backflipped on what ud said as well regarding it.

 

it feels fake to me

I don't recall backfliping anywhere please quote them for me, Turin tried to say I did but didn't quote it either. I just don't think we should spend so much time arguing the concept of time. save that for night phase if anything and do some real casing while it's still relevant. I specificaly said the amount of time chosen for day doesn't matter, the only decent arguement for a specific time is timezone differences even that is just meh to me. for the record I'll be voting 16 hours again once night happens neither end of the time arguement has really influenced me enough to do elsewise