Cleanse the Tower - Black Tower Mafia Day 2

Darthe · December 8, 2014

Ah to be European.

Ithillian Turambar · December 8, 2014

I forgot you put your dates the wrong way round.

Of course 12th september makes no sense at all. Carry on.

Kivam · December 8, 2014

Why is day ending on the 12th? That's ages away.

Of September no less. I simply have no time for a 10 month long game. I quit.

:tongue:

Kivam · December 8, 2014

And on a serious note, Ithi ... do you have any thoughts to contribute?

Ithillian Turambar · December 8, 2014

Already have.

I also don't like that you're setting up to fail on D1. Seems like a pre-emptive 'oh bugger - fancy that' to me.

And that EP attemptss to snuff out my suspicion of him by saying 'I always do it'. I found that quite defensive considering I voted for the person he was voting for. A Town person would not have jumped on the 'thou shalt not link me' aspect I think.

Turin Turambar · December 8, 2014

Vote: ## EP

I don't like his desire for a short day. I think that plays more into mafia than to town. There is more to day than EOD.

I don't like his reasoning for voting Time. She had no reason to vote at all. Her reasoning sounded reasonable to me. Plus the manner of it just wrong.

I don't like his response to Ithi's vote which was to deflect it as saying she always does that. I don't believe it to be true.

I also don't like his post about how it takes days to find a mafia because he is always getting tunneled. Sounds like AtE to me.

It all adds up to >>>rand to be mafia in my book.

Kivam · December 8, 2014

Already have.

I also don't like that you're setting up to fail on D1. Seems like a pre-emptive 'oh bugger - fancy that' to me.

And that EP attemptss to snuff out my suspicion of him by saying 'I always do it'. I found that quite defensive considering I voted for the person he was voting for. A Town person would not have jumped on the 'thou shalt not link me' aspect I think.

Excellent. Now vote.

But no, there's no "oh bugger, fancy that", we'll be lynching a townie today, and not only won't I be crying any tears (unless it happens to be a power role), but I'll be looking askance at anyone who does cry bitter tears. D1 cases have little if any strength, and people who pretend otherwise are either poor players or scum. My opinion and experience, anyway.

Ithillian Turambar · December 8, 2014

Already have.

I also don't like that you're setting up to fail on D1. Seems like a pre-emptive 'oh bugger - fancy that' to me.

And that EP attemptss to snuff out my suspicion of him by saying 'I always do it'. I found that quite defensive considering I voted for the person he was voting for. A Town person would not have jumped on the 'thou shalt not link me' aspect I think.

Excellent. Now vote.

But no, there's no "oh bugger, fancy that", we'll be lynching a townie today, and not only won't I be crying any tears (unless it happens to be a power role), but I'll be looking askance at anyone who does cry bitter tears. D1 cases have little if any strength, and people who pretend otherwise are either poor players or scum. My opinion and experience, anyway.

You're piling it on a bit thick. I've already voted. You counted it. I don't want to post too much in case I get caught doing vote counts. I really can't be bothered with that.

Kivam · December 8, 2014

Fyi, off to an office party will be able to check back in later

Gabriel Kross · December 8, 2014

I don't like either of these posts as both clearly seem to not have any clue what's going on reference the parts I have marked

Vote: ## EP

I don't like his desire for a short day. I think that plays more into mafia than to town. There is more to day than EOD.

I don't like his reasoning for voting Time. She had no reason to vote at all. Her reasoning sounded reasonable to me. Plus the manner of it just wrong.

I don't like his response to Ithi's vote which was to deflect it as saying she always does that. I don't believe it to be true.

I also don't like his post about how it takes days to find a mafia because he is always getting tunneled. Sounds like AtE to me.

It all adds up to >>>rand to be mafia in my book.

Someone who wants to ddefend Ithi so badly you should probably see where her vote is, it's not actually on me. Also name one game where Ithi doesn't come at me day one. Bet you can't.

Already have.

I also don't like that you're setting up to fail on D1. Seems like a pre-emptive 'oh bugger - fancy that' to me.

And that EP attemptss to snuff out my suspicion of him by saying 'I always do it'. I found that quite defensive considering I voted for the person he was voting for. A Town person would not have jumped on the 'thou shalt not link me' aspect I think.

Excellent. Now vote.

But no, there's no "oh bugger, fancy that", we'll be lynching a townie today, and not only won't I be crying any tears (unless it happens to be a power role), but I'll be looking askance at anyone who does cry bitter tears. D1 cases have little if any strength, and people who pretend otherwise are either poor players or scum. My opinion and experience, anyway.

Ithi is voting she specifically even referenced her vote in the post you quoted.

Time

Turin

Kivam

in no particular order arre my three suspects.

Kivam · December 8, 2014

Heh. So you did, ithi. My mistake

wheeloftime13 · December 8, 2014

[v] ## 24 hours [/v]

Anything less than that benefits mafia IMO... :P

explain your reasoning, why do you think it benefits mafia to have less than 24 hours? I could say anything but red writing benefits the mafia, but that neither explains my reasoning or makes it valid. Considering no majority needs to be reached your vote comes across as a mafia just trying to make sure you have a vote on the board.

This was the original post. I have no idea why EP chose to comment on this post but chose to not comment on others that are alike.

[v] EP [/v]

Other than that, I think Thane is a bit careful in the beginning. Will just note it for the moment.

because Time gave no reason at all, where others gave their own reasons. I asked her for a reason and she gave flawed logic general mafia rules as her reasons, hence my vote on her.

isn't the point of forming an opinion or giving a reason for something based on fact, which requires at least some logic, the whole idea of voting on somebody or playing mafia?

For day 1? [v]##6 hours[/v]. In a game with a clock, I'd rather compress D1's sillyness and save time for scumhunting on later days.

usually it is the middle days that have the most success at scum being lynched... at least in my experience. and six hours?? i know we have a certain amount of time we are able to use, but considering the fact (i know it has already been pointed out, but this point is very important) we have people in different time zones, jobs, school or something else, it is an unreasonable and unrealistic amount of time to get anything done or give anybody a chance to get anything done.

ok. [v]##12 hours[/v]

what are you saying ok to? and while 12 hours is definitely better than 6, it still is not enough time (sleeping on something is important and you are more likely to notice more or make better decisions)

Gabriel Kross · December 9, 2014

[v] ## 24 hours [/v]

Anything less than that benefits mafia IMO... :P

explain your reasoning, why do you think it benefits mafia to have less than 24 hours? I could say anything but red writing benefits the mafia, but that neither explains my reasoning or makes it valid. Considering no majority needs to be reached your vote comes across as a mafia just trying to make sure you have a vote on the board.

This was the original post. I have no idea why EP chose to comment on this post but chose to not comment on others that are alike.

[v] EP [/v]

Other than that, I think Thane is a bit careful in the beginning. Will just note it for the moment.

because Time gave no reason at all, where others gave their own reasons. I asked her for a reason and she gave flawed logic general mafia rules as her reasons, hence my vote on her.

isn't the point of forming an opinion or giving a reason for something based on fact, which requires at least some logic, the whole idea of voting on somebody or playing mafia?

For day 1? [v]##6 hours[/v]. In a game with a clock, I'd rather compress D1's sillyness and save time for scumhunting on later days.

usually it is the middle days that have the most success at scum being lynched... at least in my experience. and six hours?? i know we have a certain amount of time we are able to use, but considering the fact (i know it has already been pointed out, but this point is very important) we have people in different time zones, jobs, school or something else, it is an unreasonable and unrealistic amount of time to get anything done or give anybody a chance to get anything done.

ok. [v]##12 hours[/v]

what are you saying ok to? and while 12 hours is definitely better than 6, it still is not enough time (sleeping on something is important and you are more likely to notice more or make better decisions)

Let me brake this post down into 2 parts:

Part one is a direct response to me. To answer your question in Mafia you need reasons to back up your opinion, you can't just quote basic mafia rules and claim them as your reasons. That's not how it works. It's like saying "I think person A is mafia because there are mafia in this game." However you specifically stated you think anything less than 24 hours benefits the mafia, and gave no examples of why that is. Upon questioning you on it you responded with default mafia rules as your reasoning, attempting to deflect my inquiry.

Part 2 is illogical distancing with Kivam. First and foremost with part 2, 6 hours isn't even an available option so bringing up that invalid vote at this point in time with effort into explaining why you think it's bad is pointless and only draws more suspicion and warrants questioning why you would so deliberately distance yourself from Kivam. In that last quote it was clear that Kiam realised his mistake and said ok sto acknowledge that, you again are making a point to bring up things that have no actual meaning.

I really like my vote on Time annd intend to keep it there.

wheeloftime13 · December 9, 2014

I did give a reason why I think it would benefit mafia, but i will expand on it... because everybody would be in a scramble to lynch somebody with so little time, it's more than likely it would be a town member, or we have no lynch due to all the scrambling around in which case it will be easier to be picked off and people are less likely to form complete opinions or make observations.

Gabriel Kross · December 9, 2014

I did give a reason why I think it would benefit mafia, but i will expand on it... because everybody would be in a scramble to lynch somebody with so little time, it's more than likely it would be a town member, or we have no lynch due to all the scrambling around in which case it will be easier to be picked off and people are less likely to form complete opinions or make observations.

Oh lets also add a misrepresentation of the rules to the list. Darthe has said we do not need to reach a majority by deadline. The person with the most votes dies regardless, and in the case of a tie it's decided by coin toss. It's litreraly in the mecanics section of the opening post.

Secondly let me tell yo why all of this debate on time is pointless. I have reasons.

1) Outcome is the same no matter what. Somone will be lynched, information will be gained about the day's stances, and we transition into night.

2)Shorter time means more possibility for mistakes on both sides, but far greater on the side of the mafia due to the fact they need to manipulate the ebb and flow of the game.

3)More time means people just putting off for later what could be settled sooner, with excuses like "let me sleep on it"

4) Mafia want us to run out of time or lynch town members so whether we have little time and end up lynching a town member or have a lot of time and maybe get a mafia player odds are it will still be in mafia's favor.

There is no right or wrong answer on how much time we chose hence why I selected 16 as its a compromise between the 2 opposing opptions we had.

Kivam · December 9, 2014

I did give a reason why I think it would benefit mafia, but i will expand on it... because everybody would be in a scramble to lynch somebody with so little time, it's more than likely it would be a town member, or we have no lynch due to all the scrambling around in which case it will be easier to be picked off and people are less likely to form complete opinions or make observations.

... on tapatalk, hope this is readable. The mechanics of this game don't allow no-lynch if there are any votes, which there would be (and are). Don't see scum missing that mechanic or WoT making that "error" intentionally as a deliberate (false) town tell, so i won't be voting here for quite a while, if at all, and would encourage those voting her top move somewhere else

wheeloftime13 · December 9, 2014

I did give a reason why I think it would benefit mafia, but i will expand on it... because everybody would be in a scramble to lynch somebody with so little time, it's more than likely it would be a town member, or we have no lynch due to all the scrambling around in which case it will be easier to be picked off and people are less likely to form complete opinions or make observations.

Oh lets also add a misrepresentation of the rules to the list. Darthe has said we do not need to reach a majority by deadline. The person with the most votes dies regardless, and in the case of a tie it's decided by coin toss. It's litreraly in the mecanics section of the opening post.

Secondly let me tell yo why all of this debate on time is pointless. I have reasons.

1) Outcome is the same no matter what. Somone will be lynched, information will be gained about the day's stances, and we transition into night.

2)Shorter time means more possibility for mistakes on both sides, but far greater on the side of the mafia due to the fact they need to manipulate the ebb and flow of the game.

3)More time means people just putting off for later what could be settled sooner, with excuses like "let me sleep on it"

4) Mafia want us to run out of time or lynch town members so whether we have little time and end up lynching a town member or have a lot of time and maybe get a mafia player odds are it will still be in mafia's favor.

There is no right or wrong answer on how much time we chose hence why I selected 16 as its a compromise between the 2 opposing opptions we had.

i know about the not having to reach a majority which is why i put the bolded part... but despite the fact that someone dies regarless, no majority was reached therefore it doesn't count as a lynch in my opinion, it's just a kill by default

Gabriel Kross · December 9, 2014

it's just as good as a lynch due to the fact someone dies and we get info on that death and the people who were voting for/not voting for that person

also of note Time has an awkward attempt at distancing from Kivam and Kivam comes to her defense, I can very confidently say both Time and Kivam are mafia.

Kivam · December 9, 2014

it's just as good as a lynch due to the fact someone dies and we get info on that death and the people who were voting for/not voting for that person

also of note Time has an awkward attempt at distancing from Kivam and Kivam comes to her defense, I can very confidently say both Time and Kivam are mafia.

... again on tapatalk. So, your view is Threeway we are mafia teammates whip are trying to pull off the dreaded "simultaneous distancing while defending" move that lesser mortals think is impossible due to, you know, if being inherently contradictory? I'll grant that one of us could be mafia (I'm not, don't think time is, but it's possible), but the two of us pretty obviously aren't working a coordinated plan even in your own conception.

And I'll say it again: if you are confident in your D1 rewards, you are playing this game wrong

Kivam · December 9, 2014

Lol. "Threeway" should be "that". I love swype

Kivam · December 9, 2014

And "whip" should be "who"

Kivam · December 9, 2014