Cleanse the Tower - Black Tower Mafia Day 2

[Clovdyx]

Deadline is in approximately 24 hours, or 24.5 to be more accurate.  I will get a VC up as soon as I can.  Thank you all for understanding <3

[Turin Turambar]

@Pral, I think the thing that is bugging me the most about your replies is that you aren't deny that I have you as mafia, only that your absence was not the reason for the lack of a mafia NK on N1. Well yours and AJ's to be precise. Maybe it is just me but I would think that you would be willing to concede the possibility of inactive mafia not submitting while claiming that you were not mafia so it wasn't you. You seem to be arguing it the other way round and I find it suspicious. 

 

Let me just give a few off the cuff thoughts on everyone since I may not get another chance at my computer.

 

Tina: I don't remember much on her at the moment. Someone (Yates?) had some comments about her that looked incriminating in context but not much there. She was also in agreement with me during the time length argument but later in the day flipped to being suspect of me for what I thought was not great reasoning. 

 

RTE: largely absent. I recall not liking his entry and the following onto Pral with not much more than a "me too" in effect. That he sighted Leyrann when Ley didn't do much more than agree as well is troubling.

 

Dice(claimed ???- VT): there was a bit where I was really suspect of him. I forgot why it was. Lately the worst thing I remember about him is that he didn't have much on Tina and Pral. Also that Kiv stated he was going to kill him but he lived through the night. This suggests mafia shenanigans to keep him alive. Which means he would have to be mafia. 

 

Leyrann: I think he is town mostly because of mannerisms. There was the "slip" thing but I can possibly attribute that to language barrier. He was also on the longer side in regards to the length of day discussion which I find town of him. I don't think he bothers with the math as mafia.

 

Locke:  Most have him as Locke Clear (cwidt) but except for the Tommy peek (which was fake) I am not sure he is obvtown. I need to look at his posts again and see if I can find anything.

 

Yates:(claimed Neald- BP) up and down. I felt like he was buddying me early in the day length argument. Maybe he was just trying to make Kivam look bad. His steadfastness in the face of the events of N3 are troubling. Might be tinfoil. I also do not like the BP claim. is an esy reason for him to not be shot at night.  

 

I think Pral is the best bet for mafia. If he does flip maf then I think it makes Dice look a bit worse due to the lack of a read from him. If we get said read and the reasoning is sound then it might mitigate that.  Based on the inactive mafia idea I could certainly see RTE in that mix. 

 

Pral convince me you are town, and who you think should swing instead of you.

[Clovdyx]

Vote count:

 

Leyrann - 1 - Pralaya

Pralaya - 2 - Yates, ReleaseTheEvil

 

Day ends at 4:20 Eastern time on 12/16.

[Niniel]

Thanks, Clov. But hasn´t Yates voted Pral as well?

 

 

Read RTE´s posts and they didn´t tell me anything. 

 

Read Dice´s posts and now I´m starting to doubt my read on him after his wild Tommy/Locke mason theory. 

 

Will now take a look at the vc´s and read Turin´s posts. 

[Clovdyx]

Vote count has been adjusted.

[Leyrann]

Because I would have viewed them? :D

 

Yates have given me a good vibe all game. Pral hasn´t but I re-read his posts during the night and didn´t find him particularly scummy. 

 

 

Un-official vc

 

Pral: Yates, RTE

 

Ley: Pral

 

Not voting: Tina, Dice, Turin, Ley, Locke

 

With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch. 

 

 

 

Can we take turns updating this? And if someone can add the dl I would be happy. 

 

But why do you think you'd have viewed him as town, and not as scum? There's a reason I said I thought I'd have viewed Dice as scum - I think he's one of the likeliest to be scum, though I'll probably have to iso to be sure (or as sure as I can be).

[Niniel]

Tried to find final vc´s but there weren´t any (as far as I can see) and I don´t have the time to count votes. 

 

Read Turin´s posts. I´m conflicted about him. His posts sounds good but I don´t like his votes. 

 

 

I´m in the dark here - Dice, RTE or Turin? 

[Yates]

Yates:(claimed Neald- BP) up and down. ...I also do not like the BP claim. is an esy reason for him to not be shot at night.

Tell you what; if I ever get shot at during the night, I'll let you know.

 

FTR - if I were faking my claim I would have just claimed to have been the target on N1 to capitalize on my scum team's foul up/miss.

[Niniel]

Yates - who of RTE, Dice and Turin do you think is mafia? 

[Yates]

Yates - who of RTE, Dice and Turin do you think is mafia?

None?

 

I have Pral and then someone that's deep wolf. Maybe RTE if one of those was absolutely mafia? I have much stronger town reads on Dice and Turin.

[Niniel]

Why do you have Dice and Turin as town? 

 

I feel stuck here. Well, need to go to sleep anyway.

 

I would love if everyone could give their oppinions on Dice, Turin and RTE. 

[Turin Turambar]

Turin is Town. 

 

RTE could be lurky mafia. He hasn't posted enough.

 

Dice was flat out wrong about the tommy/locke mason thing. I doubt mafia Dice would even voice that sort of mess. 

 

 

I think Locke might be deep mafia. I was trying to MQ some stuff about the Lenlo lynch but DM ate it. 

 

Basically it is like this:

Tommy claimed a view on Lenlo as mafia. Locke votes with no statement about it. Then he sees that Tommy is retracting the "official" peek results and after some time he goes to pushing Dice on how he voted Lenlo. He goes on to chainsaw defend against Leyrann and most of those voting Lenlo. I think he couldn't help himself from trying to defend in the situation that the cop view was withdrawn. 

 

I might try to dig it up again. I don't have much time tho so if anyone is interested in looking at locke's posting during the Lenlo lynch starting with Tommy claiming a mafia peek on Len it would be appreciated.

 

 

In there I saw Tina ask about the case on Lenlo and if it was just about Tommy and his claim? That kinda pinged too. 

 

I'm out for the day I think. If not then will be phone only.

[Pralaya]

@Pral, I think the thing that is bugging me the most about your replies is that you aren't deny that I have you as mafia, only that your absence was not the reason for the lack of a mafia NK on N1. Well yours and AJ's to be precise. Maybe it is just me but I would think that you would be willing to concede the possibility of inactive mafia not submitting while claiming that you were not mafia so it wasn't you. You seem to be arguing it the other way round and I find it suspicious.

 

 

What the hell, man? Didn't up see the post where I am basically calling you out for tinfoiling on me, talking about each point you made?

 

The thing is you are making up crazy theories to fit me into your "pral is scum" read. That is classic tinfoiling, that is all I can say.

 

As to the others, Ley is playing the safe game and his responses today convinced me he is scum.

 

RTE is doing what RTE does. He sheeps the latest case which he thinks is good and votes there. He had done it number of times and it is his typical lazy, town game.

[Locke]

Night 1: WoT - Town
Night 2: Kivam - Town
Night 3: Dice - Town

Playerlist:

Tina - Torn Mafia/Town:

 

I can see Tina either way.  Still not sure what to think.
 

RTE - Town: 

Ok, [v] Lenlo [/v]

 

This is by far the most informative lynch possible given Tommy's supposed results, bar none.

Context: Shortly after Tommy unclaims, and the the train and pressure on Lenlo is scattered. No reason for scum to make this vote here.

 

Dice - Leaning Town:

Of the remaining players, Dice imo has by far the scummiest resume. But, as Pral said, his posts from yesterday seem so crazy that I have trouble seeing a mafia going that off the wall.

 

Turin - Leaning Mafia:

 

Turin's been on my radar since Day 1. There've been a number of posts that have pinged me, usually because it looks like he's trying to look like a scumhunting townie but is just building straw cases on people. Very high on my list. 

Pral - Mafia:

Honestly, a lot due to process of elimination. Everyone else I have some reason to think they're Town. No such alibi for Pral. Nearly certain he's on the remaning scum team.

 

Ley - Town:

I think I have a pretty good feel for Ley, and he's coming across solid to me. That, and I haven't seen anything particularly scummy out of him thus far to make me think otherwise. 

 

Yates - Town: 

But also the player remaining that I'm the most wary of. He's been playing a solid Townie game all game. I can look at all of his posts from Town perspective and nod in accordance.

In order:
1)Pral
2)Turin
3)Tina

4)Dice
5)Ley
6)Yates
7)RTE

Pral and Turin as a scum team is obviously a bit weird, since Turin and Pral have been at it today. But I could see them realizing they're in trouble and trying to sac Pral to get Turin, who's been relatively unsuspected, in the clear.

[Locke]

[v] ## Pral [/v] 

Could go with Turin or Tina. 

[Turin Turambar]

I think that RTE is getting too much credit for that vote. Personally I think the mafia team believed Tommy was the cop and was going to come back to Len by end of day. Therefore the most sense would be to bus Len hard since he was a goon and quite possibly outed.

 

Locke, why are you following the logic of your strongest mafia read? And why is Pralaya certainly mafia due to poe when you are torn on Tina?

[Locke]

I think that RTE is getting too much credit for that vote. Personally I think the mafia team believed Tommy was the cop and was going to come back to Len by end of day. Therefore the most sense would be to bus Len hard since he was a goon and quite possibly outed.

 

Locke, why are you following the logic of your strongest mafia read? And why is Pralaya certainly mafia due to poe when you are torn on Tina?

Good point, I should give that another look. 

 

Because I agree with it. :)   (At face value, Pral's comment on Dice's posts is something I agree with. I referred to it for the sake of maintaining clarity.) 

 

Sigh, I was gonna say something, but then I realized you're right; that's a logical error on my part. For some reason, I have Pral as more scummy than you and Tina in my mind, but as you said, it can't be due to process of elimination.  There must be something else, or I'm just constructing things out of thin air.  Looks like I need to go back and do some more reading. 

[Turin Turambar]

Also, would mostly clear you and Locke once Len flips scum

This reads like it is a foregone conclusion that Len will flip mafia. You know it and are just waiting to use it.

 

Why does it clear Locke? Are you believing Tommy's claim? Now that Tommy is shown to be not the cop what is your take on Locke?

[Niniel]

Vote count:

 

Leyrann - 1 - Pralaya

Pralaya - 2 - Yates, ReleaseTheEvil

 

Day ends at 4:20 Eastern time on 12/16.

 

 

[v] ## Pral [/v] 

 

Could go with Turin or Tina. 

[Leyrann]

 

@Pral, I think the thing that is bugging me the most about your replies is that you aren't deny that I have you as mafia, only that your absence was not the reason for the lack of a mafia NK on N1. Well yours and AJ's to be precise. Maybe it is just me but I would think that you would be willing to concede the possibility of inactive mafia not submitting while claiming that you were not mafia so it wasn't you. You seem to be arguing it the other way round and I find it suspicious.

 

What the hell, man? Didn't up see the post where I am basically calling you out for tinfoiling on me, talking about each point you made?

 

The thing is you are making up crazy theories to fit me into your "pral is scum" read. That is classic tinfoiling, that is all I can say.

 

As to the others, Ley is playing the safe game and his responses today convinced me he is scum.

 

RTE is doing what RTE does. He sheeps the latest case which he thinks is good and votes there. He had done it number of times and it is his typical lazy, town game.

 

 

Oh come on. We've played together before, haven't we? I've never been a risky player. Could be because I've been scum in about half my games, but either way... Playing safe is nothing but what I'm used to. And what's up with my responses then?

[Niniel]

[v] RTE [/v]

 

 

I´m throwing a dart on RTE, Turin and Dice. I have voted Dice almost all the game but when I re-read the mason talk I felt that it was not something a mafia would say. I could very well vote Turin. I like many of his posts but I don´t like his votes. One of the reasons that I´m not voting him is because Yates seems so clear that Turin is town. 

 

I couldn´t see anything good or bad about RTE when I re-read. The post you are all talking about (his vote on Lenlo) was still when everyone thought Tommy was cop, right? 

[Leyrann]

Iso'd Dice, to be honest I don't see why I got a scummy vibe from him earlier.

[Leyrann]

Tina

RTE

Turin

Pral

Yates

 

The remaining two scum are most likely in this group, I think. Would have to iso them too to be more sure about who. Currently thinking Pral would be the most like candidate. Would probably list RTE second.

[Niniel]

 

I think that RTE is getting too much credit for that vote. Personally I think the mafia team believed Tommy was the cop and was going to come back to Len by end of day. Therefore the most sense would be to bus Len hard since he was a goon and quite possibly outed.

 

Locke, why are you following the logic of your strongest mafia read? And why is Pralaya certainly mafia due to poe when you are torn on Tina?

Good point, I should give that another look. 

 

Because I agree with it. :)   (At face value, Pral's comment on Dice's posts is something I agree with. I referred to it for the sake of maintaining clarity.) 

 

Sigh, I was gonna say something, but then I realized you're right; that's a logical error on my part. For some reason, I have Pral as more scummy than you and Tina in my mind, but as you said, it can't be due to process of elimination.  There must be something else, or I'm just constructing things out of thin air.  Looks like I need to go back and do some more reading. 

 

 

Why didn´t you unvote if you are uncertain?

[Pralaya]

 

Also, would mostly clear you and Locke once Len flips scum

This reads like it is a foregone conclusion that Len will flip mafia. You know it and are just waiting to use it.

 

Why does it clear Locke? Are you believing Tommy's claim? Now that Tommy is shown to be not the cop what is your take on Locke?

 

At the time, I kind of believed Tommy's claim but wanted a confirmation. A Len flip would have confirmed Tommy's claim for me. Which is what the response says.

 

Now, obviously, Locke is not a cleared town. And, certainly in my to-be watched list.