Cleanse the Tower - Black Tower Mafia Day 2

[Kivam]

Why do you think Leyrann is town? She's a lone wagoner also and is voting for you

 

Silly questions.  First, I don't have any reason to think she's town.  Second, her "lone vote" was in place long before deadline and I know she's not US based, so I don't know if she was on/available at the time, so unlike Yates and Tina, that doesn't have quite the same "avoiding being on a lynch" vibe to it, though it's definitely worth noting and filing away for later.  Third, what does "is voting for me" have to do with anything?  There are 10 players, to my knowledge, who voted for townies on D1 - the 6 on Phoenix, the 3 on Time, and Ley on me.  If "voted for a townie D1" was enough reason for me to suspect a player as more likely scum than not, most of the game would be suspicious.  Voting for me D1 when I'm town tells me literally nothing about Ley's alignment.

 

Now you answer 2 questions for me, Tommy boy:

 

1) you watched me scum together with Yates in your game, so you know that none of what you're calling scumtells from me remotely resembles how I play as scum.  So why harp on them?

 

2) As a townie, why would you consider "voted for me D1" to be a scumtell?

[Kivam]

Tone

 

Better to lynch villas than scumbros and doing the same thing as scumbros again seems like poor form

 

I assume if I pushed for Yates right now you would come along?

 

No.  If Lenlo was a gut call rather than a role claim, I'm voting for Tina, with Yates to follow.  If no lynch on Tina were possible and Yates was an option by the time I sign off for Shabbos, I'll switch.  But Tina is my top target for today.

[Tommyrod]

Nothing you said above matters at all and you're ignoring my point that your selective use of logic is telling wrt your motivations

[Tommyrod]

Yeah except your "top target" is gonna flip town

 

Your Tina vote analysis is lame. What else points to her being scum? Talk me into it.

[Kivam]

 

Kivam are you voting for EP because you think he's Mafia? ... tapatalk again. No, because how he flips, and time does, will shed light on you, Locke, ley, and potentially the inactives

Forgot about this. What did EP and WoT's flips tell you about Tina, Locke, Ley, and the inactives?

 

 

Should be clear from the D1 votes recap/analysis I just posted.  If EP was actually scum and Time was town, I'd have been looking hard at Lenlo and Locke for piling onto Time to create a competing lynch train.  If the inverse, I'd have been looking at Ithi for jumping off the Time lynch as Time pulled ahead.  With both as townies, it's possible the inactives were scum simply letting things slide since no scum was at risk; the fact that Tommy and Pral apparently missed their PMs, and AJ is just gone, makes that irrelevant to the 3 of them.  Less clear for RTE. 

 

Looking back at the time of that quote, Ley was active near deadline and therefore is in the suspicious pile for the same reason you and Tina are, which is what I was referring to then.  Thanks for reminding me

 

[Tommyrod]

[unvote]

 

[v]##RTE[/v]

 

Lenlo still scum, but want this guy to feel the #cleanheat. He's very likely scum too.

[Kivam]

Yeah except your "top target" is gonna flip town

 

Your Tina vote analysis is lame. What else points to her being scum? Talk me into it.

 

What convinces you of that?  Especially since from what I've read, your meta is more about finding scum than clearing townies.

 

I've seen nothing particularly pro-town from Tina (granted, her D2, like mine, was mostly complaining about cloudfare/posting issues).  That Dice vote, at that time, was indefensible and the scummiest thing running thus far.

 

Why the impassioned defense?

[Kivam]

[v]unvote. Vote: ##Tina[/v]

[Tommyrod]

Stop trying to paint me as suspicious. It's gonna make me want to lynch you faster.

 

Onus is on you to show why Tina is scum. Voting doesn't impress me. Show me the agenda and the duplicity.

[Leyrann]

[v]##Lenlo[/v]

 

Len is scum and Locke is town.

 

Guess that's enough contribution for now.

 

Eh, sure. No reason not to get rid of viewed scum, I suppose. (don't get the unvotes above my post on this page)

 

[v] ## Lenlo [/v]

 

 

What did Ithi think of Turin?

She didn't really interact with Turin other than to defend his lack of thread presence in the one post when she mentioned he was driving a truck full of jet fuel. Here:

And Turin is currently driving a truck full of jet fuel to some military base somewhere. He normally doesn't get to stop until about 12 - 3am my time. He can't message while he's driving. He get's the odd break but if I see him posting here while he's driving they'll be merry hell to pay.

 

I'm not sure about him yet, as he's not really said that much apart from saying longer days would be better. I thought that was fair enough.

Otherwise, his name only appears in her ISO when she is making her "followers" case on Thane and Len here... So if Len is scum, the Ithi kill makes sense.

 

I think I was the only one poking at Ithi and she poked back a bit.

 

 

"a bit"

 

 

Disagree that day 1 has to end with a town death. There have been numerous mafia lynched day 1. Want to avoid day one silliness? Just don't be silly then. Get it out of your system during this night.

Turin probably town

 

 

If that makes you think he's town, then I am afraid I have to assume you're a new player. Turin is good enough he'd say this as mafia too.

 

Why do you think Leyrann is town? She's a lone wagoner also and is voting for you

 

(Gender: Male)

 

 

Why do you think Leyrann is town? She's a lone wagoner also and is voting for you

 

Silly questions.  First, I don't have any reason to think she's town.  Second, her "lone vote" was in place long before deadline and I know she's not US based, so I don't know if she was on/available at the time, so unlike Yates and Tina, that doesn't have quite the same "avoiding being on a lynch" vibe to it, though it's definitely worth noting and filing away for later.  Third, what does "is voting for me" have to do with anything?  There are 10 players, to my knowledge, who voted for townies on D1 - the 6 on Phoenix, the 3 on Time, and Ley on me.  If "voted for a townie D1" was enough reason for me to suspect a player as more likely scum than not, most of the game would be suspicious.  Voting for me D1 when I'm town tells me literally nothing about Ley's alignment.

 

Now you answer 2 questions for me, Tommy boy:

 

1) you watched me scum together with Yates in your game, so you know that none of what you're calling scumtells from me remotely resembles how I play as scum.  So why harp on them?

 

2) As a townie, why would you consider "voted for me D1" to be a scumtell?

 

Why I kept my vote on you is a bit difficult. I'm not sure anymore what it was exactly, but I believe I've indeed been on around the deadline. Earlier on I wasn't sure wheter I'd be there by deadline, and I thought there was enough time for the trains to change, and I thought you were the scummiest. When I got back just before the deadline, I felt like my vote wouldn´t be important - it'd have ended on EP anyways, who was the leading train already - and I still thought you were scummier. Because there was no majority needed, I thought I could just as well leave my vote on that, in my opinion, scummiest person.

[Leyrann]

Stop trying to paint me as suspicious. It's gonna make me want to lynch you faster.

 

Onus is on you to show why Tina is scum. Voting doesn't impress me. Show me the agenda and the duplicity.

 

Mafia can also be played from the "scum until proven town" perspective. How about you explain why she's town, too? No matter your opinion, arguments don't hurt.

[Tommyrod]

Ley

 

Who are your top 2 town and top 2 scum? Who has the best chance of flipping scum in this game, ignoring claims?

[Locke]

 

Yeah except your "top target" is gonna flip town

 

Your Tina vote analysis is lame. What else points to her being scum? Talk me into it.

 

That Dice vote, at that time, was indefensible and the scummiest thing running thus far.

 

Strong language.  

 

Also...if it was so blatantly scummy, why are you only bringing it up now? Correct me if I'm wrong, but we lynched a person yesterday, and Tina was nowhere to be seen on your suspects list. 

[Tommyrod]

 

 

Stop trying to paint me as suspicious. It's gonna make me want to lynch you faster.

 

Onus is on you to show why Tina is scum. Voting doesn't impress me. Show me the agenda and the duplicity.

Mafia can also be played from the "scum until proven town" perspective. How about you explain why she's town, too? No matter your opinion, arguments don't hurt.

Tonal cues, I'm guessing really. But he should still be able to talk me into it if he has a good argument.

[dicetosser1]

tommy  those couple of pages leading up to yates claim are pure town yates. 'tis obvious

 

 

gotta go to work  but will read that len link someone provided when i get there

[Tommyrod]

 

 

 

 

Yeah except your "top target" is gonna flip town

 

Your Tina vote analysis is lame. What else points to her being scum? Talk me into it.

That Dice vote, at that time, was indefensible and the scummiest thing running thus far.

Strong language.

 

Also...if it was so blatantly scummy, why are you only bringing it up now? Correct me if I'm wrong, but we lynched a person yesterday, and Tina was nowhere to be seen on your suspects list.

Boom. I like you.

[Tommyrod]

tommy those couple of pages leading up to yates claim are pure town yates. 'tis obvious

 

 

gotta go to work but will read that len link someone provided when i get there

I probably agree. What about Kivam?

[Kivam]

Stop trying to paint me as suspicious. It's gonna make me want to lynch you faster.

 

Onus is on you to show why Tina is scum. Voting doesn't impress me. Show me the agenda and the duplicity.

 

Oh Noes! Tommy will want to lynch me!

[Pralaya]

ok - bear with me, I'm multiquoting so you should first just take a minute to commemorate that as it hardly ever happens.

 

This is all to do with Followers. Followers who like to follow a strong Town lead because they think no-one will remember they were there too. In this instance the Town is me and the Followers are Thane and Len.

 

Let's watch the Day 1 play.

 

Here I go

Interesting observation here. If Len is scum, she was on the right track but went with the wrong person.

 

The other interesting thing is that Turin immediately does this right after Ithi's post.

 

 

i've looked through the opening post, and i can't find anything about win conditions indeed...

 

Now, just so i understand hings right: Should we achieve a no lynch by voting 'no lynch', will the wolves get a double kill or not?

This is what Thane says. He only mentioned the OP from Darthe. Fishy.

 

[V] ## Thane

 

If Ithi can read Turin well, would a scum Turin do the exact thing that made Ithi suspicious of Lenlo? I doubt so. Turin is town here

[Locke]

How does hybrid hammer work exactly?

[Tommyrod]

 

 

Stop trying to paint me as suspicious. It's gonna make me want to lynch you faster.

 

Onus is on you to show why Tina is scum. Voting doesn't impress me. Show me the agenda and the duplicity.

Oh Noes! Tommy will want to lynch me!

[ ] how villagers respond

[Leyrann]

Top 2 scum: Yates would be one of them for sure. For the other, I'm a bit hesitant. Locke got cleared by you, until proven otherwise I also consider you town, RTE, Pral and AJ haven't really commited enough to form an opinion, and about Tina and Turin I'm not sure. And I realize I didn't go over Dice yet, so he'd probably make my second. Thing is that I seem to always read him as scum, so it might have more to do with me.

 

Top 2 town: A bit of the same problem. Before you cleared Locke he'd have been on the list already, now I'd probably say Tina and Turin because of the lack of other people that are active enough but haven't claimed.

 

Would like to mention I'm not quite convinced about Kivam yet. Can I ask you what you did last night, Kivam? Because there was one kill, which means that someone has holstered.

 

(9 new replies btw)

[Tommyrod]

Pral, I need your help solving this game.

 

I haven't lock cleared Turin or anything. He's got a connection to Len.

[Kivam]

 

 

Kivam are you voting for EP because you think he's Mafia? ... tapatalk again. No, because how he flips, and time does, will shed light on you, Locke, ley, and potentially the inactives

 

I fail to see how it would say anything about me or Locke.

 

 

Then you aren't paying attention.  EP has been vocally defending you; if he's scum, I'm more inclined to read that as actual defense rather than white knighting, given how generally flaily he's been (again, I'm aware "flaily" isn't a word, and I insist it should be).  Locke came in while EP was getting pressure, FOS'd you but voted for Time, essentially setting up a competing train ; again, if EP is scum, that would ring alarm bells for me.  If EP is town, then neither of those things are particularly meaningful any more (though Locke's vote would become meaningful again if Time is scum, since it could be both distancing and avoiding being on a townie lynch).  I'm also concerned that roughly half the game is inactive (despite being active elsewhere); odds are there's a scum or two in that group (big revelation, I know - 50% of the game is likely to contain 1 or 2 scum) and I don't want to lose sight of them while focusing on the talkative players.

 

 

Oh, and what I said here about Ley and Locke, as well.

[Leyrann]

How does hybrid hammer work exactly?

 

From this game not needing a majority and the votes needed for majority being there in the vote counts, I think when a majority is reached or when time runs out.