My theory on lighting his pipe at the end...

[Maverick3n1]

If you haven't finished reading the book series, probably not a good idea reading this...  So you are warned.

 

I finished reading this long ago, and came up with a theory instantly, but I was baffled to find others didn't think in that same manner, so I figured I'd share my concepts.

 

I believe that Rand was able to light the pipe while no longer having access to saidin because he no longer needed it.  His entire life he was the most powerful ta'veren ever to have walked the earth.  Towards the end, it started to become clear that unlike most ta'veren who have no direct control over how things are effected by them, and it merely happens, he started to learn to control this ability, much like controlling saidin.  A perfect example is when he met up with the farm owner of apple trees and made the trees ripe with apples.  He told the farmer he believed he could hold off the dark one long enough for him to harvest and distribute the fruit.

 

I believe that at the end, the last battle, Rand mastered the ability to manipulate the pattern in any way he felt fit.  He in essence became a God.  Much like how he managed to place himself into another's body, while that body no longer had access to Saidin, HE never lost the ability to manipulate the threads of time.  After verifying he was rid of Saidin, on a whim, he decided to test and see if he could still manipulate the pattern.  Sure enough, he could.  He is in essence a God at this point.  He doesn't need balefire to remove someone's existence.  He can merely weave the person out of the pattern at a whim.  This is just my theory, but every angle I look at it, nothing else makes sense.  The true power came from the dark one he locked tight behind a prison, and he only really had access to the true power because the dark one was still trying to influence him and bring him to the dark one's side.

 

Anyone have any objections, or any ideas that would contradict my theory?  I'm all ears.  I'd love to hear other's opinions.

[damandred]

I always thought the pipe lighting power came because of his fight with the DO. He wove that posible future, so in essance he was the creator for that age in that it played out according to his vision of it. Dont know why he wasnt able to channel always thought it a thing of the soul whether you could channel or not might be the body burnt itself out in the LB.

[Suttree]

  On 4/17/2014 at 3:29 AM, Maverick3n1 said:

I finished reading this long ago, and came up with a theory instantly, but I was baffled to find others didn't think in that same manner, so I figured I'd share my concepts.

What makes you think that? The most prevalent theory is post his fight with the DO Rand gained new abilities.

 

  On 4/17/2014 at 3:29 AM, Maverick3n1 said:

A perfect example is when he met up with the farm owner of apple trees and made the trees ripe with apples.  He told the farmer he believed he could hold off the dark one long enough for him to harvest and distribute the fruit.

The Dragon Reborn is one with the land. Much as his growing darkness was causing food to rot, plants to die etc., his epiphany on DM caused the opposite to happen.

 

  On 4/17/2014 at 3:29 AM, Maverick3n1 said:

I believe that at the end, the last battle, Rand mastered the ability to manipulate the pattern in any way he felt fit.  He in essence became a God.

While we did see a change, it's important to note that any claims of him being jesus rand or a god have been shot down.

 

 

  Quote

BWS: Yeah, there’s the cup, …

(unintelligible interruption)

The thing is, he wanted one no one knew he had. Because he’s Sneaky Rand and in Towers of Midnight, he’s doing sneaky stuff with all of his memories and things like this. It’s not all sneakiness, but one of the big things that made Team Jordan uncomfortable was Jesus Rand. I told them “It’s gonna work, because when you get to…” Harriet was like, “We can’t make him a deity. He can’t be a deity: he’s a person.” I’m like, “Don’t worry. When you read the last book, it will all come together, that he’s human.” But I really wanted people to be uncomfortable, because I remember reading book 3, and being very uncomfortable, because that’s the one after Rand became a murderer, where he leaves and kind of goes a little crazy for a while, on his way to Tear. And I’m like “Oh, no, I’ve lost Rand forever. My Rand is gone.” Right?

MK: Well, and then you lose him for like seven more books!

BWS: Right, but no, he comes back. By book four he’s back, main viewpoint character. And yeah, he’s grown and changed, but he’s still my Rand. I wanted to do that to you again. I wanted you to read book eleven and say, “Oh, no, I’ve lost Rand. He’s become Gandalf or something now. He’s Jesus Rand. And then I wanted to have you read the last book and be like “Oh, no, he is my Rand. He’s different, he’s grown, but he’s still Rand.” I was trying to parallel that; I hope that I achieved it. But that was the goal with Jesus Rand: you were supposed to be uncomfortable by that, and then you were supposed to learn that half of it was just tricks he was pulling, from knowing stuff in the Age of Legends.

[mb]

The pipe lighting has seemed to me that Rand was still taveren; that his taveren-ness lit the pipe.

told those in another thread.

[Maverick3n1]

As Suttree is trying to state, they want to stay away from "Jesus Rand" but by my concept, which is basically what MB stated, if he has the ability to utilize and manipulate his  Taveren nature, he in essence could be considered a god.  While lighting a pipe is minor, the fact that he had the ability to effect the world around him to create a trickle of flame where it did not exist says he can change anything he wishes, thus falling into the category of Jesus Rand.  Even Brandon Sanderson stated he did not understand the meaning of the pipe lighting and put it in as it was RJ's last chapter that RJ wrote himself.  Maybe that is the directions RJ was going and none of us, including his wife, or BS understands that because it was never specified by RJ.

[MauricXe]

  On 4/17/2014 at 7:45 AM, damandred said:

I always thought the pipe lighting power came because of his fight with the DO. He wove that posible future, so in essance he was the creator for that age in that it played out according to his vision of it. Dont know why he wasnt able to channel always thought it a thing of the soul whether you could channel or not might be the body burnt itself out in the LB.

Interesting.

 

Perhaps there is some truth to that angle. the DO refers to Rand as "adversary".  That could be a specific distinction or just a plain label.

[Talmanes]

Didn't it basically say he was just able to use the Source without channeling? That was the Sharan prophecy wasn't it?

[mb]

Sharan prophecy?  The first 13 books do not reveal any.  From skimming various parts of Memory of Light; caught Demandred mentioning them when speaking to Light-sided characters.

[Talmanes]

In AMoL it mentions a couple times that the Sharans are following because their prophecy said that their version of the Dragon would be able to channel without using weaves. So Demanded and (can't remember the female Forsaken) use the TP to trick them into thinking they are the prophesied one.

Edited April 25, 2014 by Talmanes

[mb]

In which chapter/chapters are those 2 mentionings?

the female I take to be Moghedien.

[Occams whiskey bottle]

Rand probably lit the pipe the same way he left his body to fight the Dark One and how he switched bodies near the end. I doubt that he now has all encompassing powers because that would really make him a true God, and we know that Harriet was very vocal about Rand being just a man.

[Mr Ares]

  On 4/25/2014 at 9:11 PM, Talmanes said:

In AMoL it mentions a couple times that the Sharans are following because their prophecy said that their version of the Dragon would be able to channel without using weaves. So Demanded and (can't remember the female Forsaken) use the TP to trick them into thinking they are the prophesied one.

Except Brandon confirmed that Demandred actually was the Sharan prophesied one - he though he was subverting prophecies about Rand, but he was actually fulfilling prophecies about himself.

[Talmanes]

Really? I hadn't seen that. Do you have a link to the interview? That changes a lot of what I thought about theending.

[Mr Ares]

  Quote

 

 

WETLANDER

Was Bao the Wyld part of Sharan prophecy? If so, was Demandred co-opting their Dragon prophecies?

BRANDON SANDERSON

"The Wyld" was part of Sharan prophecy; Demandred thinks he co-opted the Sharan version of the "dragon prophecies" but it was actually about him all along.

WETLANDER

(I was surprised to get an answer to this; I expect some of it will show up in "River of Souls" anyway. An interesting follow-on question might be whether this means the Sharans were destined by the Pattern to fight for Team Dark.)

http://www.theoryland.com/intvsresults.php?kwt=%27demandred%27

[Orderofolde]

  On 4/17/2014 at 7:45 AM, damandred said:

I always thought the pipe lighting power came because of his fight with the DO. He wove that posible future, so in essance he was the creator for that age in that it played out according to his vision of it. Dont know why he wasnt able to channel always thought it a thing of the soul whether you could channel or not might be the body burnt itself out in the LB.

 

  On 4/17/2014 at 7:45 AM, damandred said:

I always thought the pipe lighting power came because of his fight with the DO. He wove that posible future, so in essance he was the creator for that age in that it played out according to his vision of it. Dont know why he wasnt able to channel always thought it a thing of the soul whether you could channel or not might be the body burnt itself out in the LB.

Sort of like the post above, it was more of an ability with his T'A'R abilities and then weaving the threads of creation itself.  My question is why the DO was able to weave the threads of creation in the first place.  Rand wasn't supposed to be able to and struggled with it, but the DO?  His visions were as tainted as the too-pure visions Rand had.

[Sabio]

I still need to read the river of souls.  So it makes me wonder if the shadow wrote the Sharan prophecy with one of the Forsaken in mind.  Since Ishy kept getting spun out through the years a plan he hatched years ago or as Mr. Ares posted were the Sharans along meant to fight for the shadow.  Does make me wonder why the shadow water killing all of the Seanchan nobility, didn't try to take control there also and use those forces, seanchan vs seanchan would of been fun to read about.  I would of thought Semi would of killed them and then put herself in power over there.

[Harry Potter]

I thought it was because he could use Saa. I might be wrong but in that last scene doesn't it drift across his eyes?

Edited April 30, 2014 by Harry Potter

[Suttree]

  On 4/30/2014 at 3:16 AM, Harry Potter said:

I thought it was because he could use Saa. I might be wrong but in that last scene doesn't it drift across his eyes?

 

Saa comes from using the TP.

 

Interview: Apr, 2003

  Quote

Budapest Q&A (Verbatim)

Wood Sun

What about the saa? You wrote in a chapter, that there is a black hole before Moridin's eyes.

Robert Jordan

No, no, in the eyes. It is not before. In the eyes, inside the eyes.

Wood Sun

And can see through? (-?- unsure about this sentence. -?-)

Robert Jordan

It depends. When you are using the True Power. At first, when you begin using the True Power, there's nothing there. Nothing in the eyes. After you've used it for a while, you begin to have a black speck floating across your eyes, when you're using it.

Wood Sun

And then you see, other observers can see it.

Robert Jordan

No, you don't see it. You don't actually see it.

Wood Sun

I think it was the chapter when Moridin was observing with a cloak of fancloth. His vision was blurred by a rain of black spots.

Harriet

But it didn't affect his vision.

Robert Jordan

It didn't affect his vision. You're aware of it, but it's not like there is blackness between you, because it gets thicker and thicker and thicker and you get to a point where if you've used it long enough you get a steady stream even if you're not connected. And you are then on the road, at that point, inevitably, to becoming what Ishamael was. Because these are stigmata, if you will. These saa are stigmata caused by a linkage to the Dark One. And eventually the effect is to become all fire eyes. You no longer have eyes visible to other people. If they're looking into your eyes, they seem to be looking into caverns of flame that stretch to infinity. And when you open your mouth they see another cavern of flame that stretches to infinity. Because you've reached at that point the ultimate level of this usage and quite possibly, if you've at this point not been granted immortality, you're on your way to death. Not madness, but you're on your way to death. So it's sort of a race. The Dark One has given you this boon, but if you use it very much, then you'd better hope he is willing to give you another boon, because if he doesn't give you the second boon then you're dead. Some of the Forsaken have expressed discomfort with the fact that Ishamael and Moridin are so free with using the One Power.

Wood Sun

And is it addictive?

Robert Jordan

Yes.

Wood Sun

Entirely.

Robert Jordan

So is the One Power. That's one of the things that I intended from the beginning. The One Power has at least the potential for good, and it is something used by those on the side of good. And it is addictive, physically and psychologically addictive and also potentially very dangerous, even deadly to those who are using it.

Wood Sun

And so the other Forsaken seem to be afraid of using the True Power?

Robert Jordan

Well, they are, because they know this; they will use it when they have to, but they limit it, because they know that if you use it enough to let the saa begin to appear, then you are on a spiral and once they begin appearing, they begin appearing more often. And eventually, unless you are given immortality by the Dark One, you are dead. Now, the thing is, they don't wanna die. This is really great, it is a really great honor to be given the ability to tap into the True Power. Which is not inherently stronger than the One Power. It's not that it is stronger in any way. It is just something that does not have some of the limitations of the One Power. Other people can't feel you embracing it, or using it, like the One Power.

Question

-?-

Robert Jordan

Yeah, you could.

Question

-?-

Robert Jordan

Yeah, you could burn out with the True Power.

Wood Sun

Only True Power, or One Power too?

Robert Jordan

With the True Power as well as the One Power you can burn out.

 

 

[WWWwombat]

It's been a while since I read it, but it felt to me like Rand was using something akin to TAR abilities to light the pipe.  Which is somewhat interesting given that neither Rand nor Lews Therin were actually dreamwalkers.  But Moridin was.  And Rand was able to manipulate Moridin's dreamshard (allegedly because it was close to TAR).  Perhaps the link/bodyswap combined with the highly cosmological nature of the last battle and the function of TAR as the third constant of the Pattern has given Rand some limited ability to influence the Pattern directly.

[WWWwombat]

Also, given RJ's background in nuclear physics, I can't help but note parallels between the cosmology of the Pattern and the Bohm Interpretation of quantum mechanics.

[MakeMeACaesar]

Read the series far too late. I Have been trying to look up what people thought about Rand not even letting Tam know he was alive and stumbled upon this... The women lit the pipe. He stares at his pipe and thinks about it lighting over and over again and suddenly it lights up and he looks at the three women staring at him from his funeral pyre. They felt it through the bond and lit it for him. He smiles and rides away wondering who will follow him first. Couple pages earlier they are speaking about how they can feel his bond pulse so obviously they are all still connected even though he switched bodies. 

[m.laz]

I need to reread the entire series again and see if this idea holds water. My idea is that the is a light half to the True Power and that Rand learns to wield it before The Last Battle. I got the idea when rereading the scene where Nynaeve delves Rand to check his madness which she does find, but finds it being countered by points of light. 

I think the concepts of darkness and light can exists without the other, shadow needs both. 

IIRC, Rand's encounter with Moridin in Shadar Logoth gave him access to the True Power. This may have been necessary for him to access the light half of it. 

The comments on the True Power above might invalidate my theory. But IIRC, RJ had some pretty hard rules for the WOT world. Also, I seem to recall he had a degree in physics which seemed to influence the WOT world. For example, mirrors of the wheel sounds like the idea of quantum superposition to some degree. So if the true power has rules like the one power, perhaps the balance aspect is one of those rules.

[Agitel]

  On 4/25/2014 at 7:55 PM, Talmanes said:

Didn't it basically say he was just able to use the Source without channeling? That was the Sharan prophecy wasn't it?

Expand  

 

That's sort of my take. He's so intimately familiar with the True Source now it's not even about weaving anymore.

 

Edit: Someone mentioned T'A'R above, and perhaps Rand learned to make possibilities of alternate worlds (like through the Portal Stones) present in some way. *shrugs*

Edited June 11, 2020 by Agitel

[Thrasymachus]

The pipe got lit the same way you're supposed to use the three sea shells in Demolition Man.

[For Uno]

Just finished The series. I believe you are all wrong. Lighting that pipe is not any Power. IT was described exactly as Perrins actions in TAR. My thoughts are that during the battle with DO Rand finally understood that The World of WOT is a dream just like all the Aiel said. Dying was "waking up" and TAR is a "dream within a dream". This was teased few times with Perrin trying to summon the hammer and shifting, but he couldnt do it because he always remembered that IT was not possible since he was awake. But Rand didn't care about being awake.