The moiraine Thom romance

[InfinLuminous]

"this is a fantasy series about the impending apocalypse, so I don't find it unbelievable so much as slightly unsatisfying. I would have preferred a bit more development of the romance, but in the end I still like it."

 

This is a great point. People do not always act completely rationally and tend to jump the gun when under significant stress. I would say the end of the world would cause a lot of people to throw caution to the wind and not wait. From that perspective, the quick marriage makes sense, because if they wait they may never get the chance. Also, in my recent re-read it seemed that there were at least a few off-screen conversations in the early books between Moiraine and Thom.

[dawnflower8]

I'm currently rereading the series, and I've noticed a lot more MoiraineXThom as early as near the beginning of the first book. Not as sudden as I thought.

 

I still think LanXNynaeve was very sudden though.

[InfinLuminous]

I mean, I think the Lan/Nynaeve ting has a lot to do with Nynaeve being super hot. Think about it. Rand, Perrin and Mat don't realize it as much because they were apparently disciplined by her growing up, but even they say she is pretty. Lan was used to hanging around ageless faces all day, then all of a sudden he meets this young, fiery, 20-something girl with long, dark hair? Lan knew what was up.

[Blasph]

Both Lan/Nyn and Thom/Moira romances were completely unexpected, at least for me.

I also thought the same as somebody mentioned that the letter Thom received had something to do with Reds and his gentled nephew.

"My Dearest Thom" was a bit strange but not *that* much out of line.

After all, there was a moment around the time Rand & Co traveled the Waste, where Moiraine told Lan she even thought about the last desperate measure of bedding Rand if that's what was required to set him on the right path but then also said she found out it would have been a disaster.

I thought that Moiraine knew she was going to be needed around Rand again, on the Merillor Field and addressed "Dearest" Thom to convince him to save her.

She knew Mat would have been reluctant to do that if she asked him directly, given his dislike for Aes Sedai and the Aelfinn and Eelfinn.

Thom would be able to convince Mat and they together would recruit the third.

Mat being ta'veren probably means Moiraine counted on his potential and bending of chance to do it right.

She has always been carefully planning things but maybe in the end Mat's ta'veren nature went further than she expected and coupled with her undeniably painful experiences with Finn beings, it made her want to appreciate life more than before.

Thom was there and she spontaneously declared her love for him.

[magatsu17]

The whole series has to do with fate and destiny.   I've always put these strange out of the no where romances to the will of the Pattern.  

[Sabio]

Moriane had the advantage of not only going through the rings at Rhudiean but also the doorway in Tear.  We have no idea what 3 questions she asked.  I think she told Lan, "short of sharing his bed" and then thought to herself she was shocked when the rings showed her it one of the things she might of tried and would lead to disaster. 

[Orderofolde]

This hints have been there through the entire series so I was not one bit surprised when this happened.  I'm not saying that the hints were obvious but for some reason I picked up on them pretty easily (wish I could have done the same with Asmo's killer lol).  

 

This hints have been there through the entire series so I was not one bit surprised when this happened.  I'm not saying that the hints were obvious but for some reason I picked up on them pretty easily (wish I could have done the same with Asmo's killer lol).  

Everyone forgot about Thom's constant reading and rereading of Moiraine's letter.  Even Mat notices and knows Thom is worried over a girl.  Weird how he forgets that he read Moiraine's letter.  Should have remembered Thom pining away for her after she goes through the Ter'angreal.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Yeah, there are hints. Moiraine delighted by Thom's antics in EotW, lots of small things, particularly their talk in tSR, and of course the letter. 

But as people have said, I wouldn't call it exactly obvious. RJ was going for subtle, but it was a bit TOO subtle that for many it came as a surprise. 

 

The casual reader wouldn't pick up on it. It's only when you go through re-reads these things appear. 

 

Personally, that's one thing I love about the WoT, you figure out new things that you never noticed. but it's understandable if you are just reading casually, you don't want to have to scrutinize it to get the information. 

[mb]

I was able to pick up at least some of the hints during my first time through this series.

[DemandredFO]

All the whiz bang relationships may seem odd looked at from a human perspective, but look at them as Rand is an Emperor and he needs all the major nobles tied to him. From an imperial taveren perspective they aren't so odd

[udbabor520]

All the whiz bang relationships may seem odd looked at from a human perspective, but look at them as Rand is an Emperor and he needs all the major nobles tied to him. From an imperial taveren perspective they aren't so odd

 

True, but The first word that comes to my mind (regarding their relationship) is Infidelity.Thom is so much in love that he will go after any woman (with big breasts). Disgusting.

[Sabio]

Thom was hardly cheating on Moraine.  Heck after he escaped from the Fade he had no reason to even think he would ever see Moraine again.  And its not like he hooked up on one night stands and such, he found a woman he cared about and then she was murdered.  Then he heard Moraine was dead and wasn't until Mat gave him the note that he knew Moraine still lived.Also you make t seem like he spent the entire series just having flings with any woman he saw.

[Suttree]

 

All the whiz bang relationships may seem odd looked at from a human perspective, but look at them as Rand is an Emperor and he needs all the major nobles tied to him. From an imperial taveren perspective they aren't so odd

 

True, but The first word that comes to my mind (regarding their relationship) is Infidelity.Thom is so much in love that he will go after any woman (with big breasts). Disgusting.

 

Wth are you on about?

[Orderofolde]

 

 

All the whiz bang relationships may seem odd looked at from a human perspective, but look at them as Rand is an Emperor and he needs all the major nobles tied to him. From an imperial taveren perspective they aren't so odd

 

True, but The first word that comes to my mind (regarding their relationship) is Infidelity.Thom is so much in love that he will go after any woman (with big breasts). Disgusting.

 

Wth are you on about?

 

He's talking about Riselle!

[Suttree]

 

 

 

All the whiz bang relationships may seem odd looked at from a human perspective, but look at them as Rand is an Emperor and he needs all the major nobles tied to him. From an imperial taveren perspective they aren't so odd

 

True, but The first word that comes to my mind (regarding their relationship) is Infidelity.Thom is so much in love that he will go after any woman (with big breasts). Disgusting.

 

Wth are you on about?

 

He's talking about Riselle!

 

 

Yeah I got that part. The rest is pretty absurd though...

[udbabor520]

Yeah I got that part. The rest is pretty absurd though...

 

Look, if we see the series as a romantic story, Thom's attitude is unacceptable.  Love At First Sight could be the motto! I can accept that Thom, Mat and a few others act like "adults" who have desires but I don' think that they fit in the spirit of the story*. See Mat's behaviour! Checking over Avi's legs, El's breasts... hey! they are your friend's SOs!

 

 

*That's why we got no sex scenes (thanks Mr Jordan), we got no masturbating scenes (except one) etc. And as many people stated many times before: the rape scenes were absolute unnecessary. I get that Jordan wanted to paint a real world and in the real world such things happen but I feel so uncomfortable reading about these parts.

[Magicana]

 

Yeah I got that part. The rest is pretty absurd though...

 

Look, if we see the series as a romantic story, Thom's attitude is unacceptable.  Love At First Sight could be the motto! I can accept that Thom, Mat and a few others act like "adults" who have desires but I don' think that they fit in the spirit of the story*. See Mat's behaviour! Checking over Avi's legs, El's breasts... hey! they are your friend's SOs!

 

 

*That's why we got no sex scenes (thanks Mr Jordan), we got no masturbating scenes (except one) etc. And as many people stated many times before: the rape scenes were absolute unnecessary. I get that Jordan wanted to paint a real world and in the real world such things happen but I feel so uncomfortable reading about these parts.

 

 

Is there a general reference to that masturbation scene? I can't believe I've missed it!

[udbabor520]

Is there a general reference to that masturbation scene? I can't believe I've missed it!

 

El.

 

Edit: See the comments http://www.theoryland.com/theories.php?func=5&rec=77&theo=984

[Sabio]

@Ud still confused how Thom behaved badly.  He liked Moraine a lot but he got separated from her.  At that time there was really no way for him to think he would ever see Moraine again.  So he went on with his life and found a woman he cared about and took her as his apprentice.  She died and Thom eventually ends up back in Tear where he meets Moraine again.  The he has to go his own way to look out for Nyn and Elayne and then hears word of Moraine's death.  Not until Mat gives him the letter that he finds out she is still alive.  I don't see what Thom has done wrong, he wasn't out trying to seduce every woman he comes across.  If you go on spring break meet a lady you really like but 2 weeks later you each go your own speperate ways, you assume you will never see her again so even though you really liked her you go about living  your life.  Thom never thought he would see Moraine again after he was attacked by the Fade, so he went on with his life. 

[udbabor520]

Sabio, I get your point but I see a commitment (sort of). And while I'm in a 'relationship' (with Moi) I will not go after other women. I think that's simple. (Thom's sexual life is too much for me, his attitude: 'new town? yeah, I will sleep with another woman tonight' is not matching my views. Of course, the story needs a character like this but I don't like his 'actions'.

[Suttree]

How are you defining "relationship" before they got separated and he  thought she was dead?

[Nick Trano]

[Removed]. Of course Mat is going to notice Elayne's breasts or Aviendha's legs. He's a dude. And a total horn dog at that who finds a new chick to bang in every village. Just because he notices, "Hey, the queen of Andor is kind of hot," doesn't mean that he's planning on stealing Rand's wife away from him. 

 

*This post emasculated by the jerk who spent the whole series hiding in Shara*

[mb]

Some scene told that Thom loved loved only 2 women ever:: his apprentice and Moiraine.  I think it was a Thom POV.

I do not recall him showing any sexual interest toward any other woman than those 2.

[damandred]

isnt one of those two women Morgase?

[udbabor520]

[Removed]. Of course Mat is going to notice Elayne's breasts or Aviendha's legs. He's a dude. And a total horn dog at that who finds a new chick to bang in every village. Just because he notices, "Hey, the queen of Andor is kind of hot," doesn't mean that he's planning on stealing Rand's wife away from him. 

 

*This post emasculated by the jerk who spent the whole series hiding in Shara*

 

So, when your friends look at your SO's body parts "with lust", you have no problem with it? You must be a saint or something.