[Game]: Black Tower Mafia II - The revolt.

[Talya]

I'm not sure how much I'm going to around today, My Migraine has come back and it's hard work being on here. We still have over two days until deadline, so not a problem. 

[Leyrann]

@Basel, no I don't believe people are definitely town if viewed. Ley said he found him town and at the time I saw no reason not to believe he most likely was. I don't like his behaviour at the moment and I didn't like his interaction with Lenlo. I want to hear his reasons why he chose people and not others. If you do believe he is Godfather, that must then put Des's town read into question, though I'm not sure that if RTE was mafia he would drag another team member in so obviously, it would create a WIFOM. 

 

One thing that did bug me a little - @ RTE - why did you choose Des to LD not csarmi? Luckily you didn't chose csarmi, as the result would have been null, but I just wondered. 

 

I viewed Des too, so that removes the doubt from Des again. Because if RTE is godfather, it means Des cannot be, and therefore my viewing would be true. And I'd say my viewing of Des was too random to be framed. (is that the right name? a mafia action that makes someone appear like town while he's scum for one night? or the other way around?)

[hazelkrs1]

You're thinking of either a BusDriver Ley, or something else like a Mirror role or something. Or Nexus I guess. A Framer makes people look like mafia when viewed, not the other way around.

 

And thank you for making the point I was about to regarding my viewing. Don't think Talya would have missed that tbh, at least not if she was town. As scum she'd look for anything to try and spread wifom about someone. Really feeling good about my vote on Talya right now.

 

We have WAY too few people actually playing btw. There's nothing to excuse this many people lurking, you can't all have rl stuff going on at the same time that prevents you from playing. Any lurkers better come forward with some kind of explanation soon and start playing or Ill start sniping yall from the bushes.

 

Gonna quickly peruse the last few pages to see if there was specific stuff I had to respond to. Don't think I'll be able to do a reread tonight, was busy at work. I'll see tho.

[hazelkrs1]

so you think I'm scum because I missed you calling someone scummy., And even try to make 3 fluff posts look like it might be scum...no amount of fluff posts proves scum or town, and Via had more than me and not mentioned. As for the me being definite about Ley, I wasn't just wrote it that way, because I forgot to put "is he is telling the truth" get fed up with putting that in when writing and I forget, it ruins the flow of the speech. 

 

Other than that you don't even have a case, and you are wrong. I'm town :p If that is all you have it is a very weak case and haven't read through that well, missed the rest of the days,. RTE was said to be town by Ley, and yet he is on your scum list. If you are going to do a read through do all of it, it makes it look like you are being lazy. Interesting that you do a whole case on Dice (who I still think is mafia) and find him town, then do a half hearted one on me to find me mafia and don't bother on anyone else...this is very telling. 

 

@RTE, why Ed please and why do you suspect the others. not interested in your chat with Lenlo about who is going to say it, at the moment I believe you are town unless something else happens, but your interaction with Lenlo is looking odd.

 

(This was directed at Basel, not me)

 

Just wanted to mention what specific things I didn't like from this post. Mostly all the attempts to redirect focus onto someone else seem like very poor defense (Oh, you said I posted fluff but so did Hallia too!). Talya, you shouldn't be concerned with trying to compare your play to others in an attempt to clear yourself, you should be explaining WHY you did the things you did, and then talk about who YOU actually think could be scum.

 

Don't like how you either missed or didn't care that Basel had already explained that he thought RTE could be the GF.

 

Also don't like you trying to both say you think RTE is town, but also nudge at both him and Lenlo at the same time.

 

Do you not acknowledge the difference in time it takes to properly case someone rather than follow along on posts via email and respond to inaccurate statements in quick posts?

 

Oh come on bro. It doesn't take THAT long to summarize why you think someone is scummy. Prob no longer than the time it takes to continuously refresh the thread and reply back to every comment directed your way.

 

Right now RTE, you're serving as more of a distraction than anything else. No townie should ever be as cute with refusing to explain your reads like you initially did with Lenlo, and after others pressure you about it you DEF should have just either stopped replying to everyone and gotten around to it when you could, or else friggin explained your reads.

 

Oh and btw, I also still think it's possible that you could be the GF, and lied about viewing me just to try and buddy me. Wanna quote the statement you LD'ed of mine?

 

 

ok, not as much use as I first thought, cos I misjudged the numbers slightly, but anyway, this was my thought.

 

I am prone to beleive that there was one or two mafia voting Ley before he revealed, wether to run a quick lynch, or buddy town or whatever, their votes wouldn't stand out in all the other quick voting.

 

These are the people who were voting Ley, in the order they voted

 

Cloud

Turin

Darthe

Desp - vetted as town by Ley (town for now)

Csarmi

Basel

 

now that means that there are two (or maybe three if there was only one mafia voting Ley) out of the people not voting Ley.

 

not voting Ley

Dice

Talya

Ed

NotBob

Lenlo

Pralya

RTE

 

Town:

Ley and me

 

so yes, I am aware that I have just divided everyone into two roughly equal groups and said there are two mafia in each, but it was a much better idea when I thought for some reason there were people voting Ley (I got confused with the number needed to lynch) . when that second group would only have had five people in it.

 

But still, I think there's a good chance that three out of those seven are mafia, maybe only two. And this is a list generated from gameplay, not just randomly picked names.

 

 

Quoting Via's post again and coloring the town. This is interesting. The Ley train, which got him to reveal, was mostly town? Wow. 

 

And, continuing from - http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/85585-game-black-tower-mafia-ii-the-revolt/?p=3069730

 

The pattern did look like Cloud was the most suspicious. Unfortunately, he was not scum. 

 

That leaves Turin. Some of his vote pattern looked townish. However, I will need to go back and reread his posts for more info. Will do it tomorrow.

 

 

Hmmmm very interesting. This lends slight support to my feelings on Turin as well. Don't like basing anything off of probabilities, but I find it pretty unlikely that the ENTIRE train on Ley will end up being town.

 

 

I'm thinking Turin is scum. He normally tunnels me as town, and with my play this game I could have easily seen him thinking I was scum (haven't been able to be as attentive without my laptop). And yet he fencesits a bit on me and says me agreeing with him makes him uncomfortable. I tried giving him the biggest opening I could for him to case me after that, and he didn't. Plus I really don't like how earlier in the game he tried gaming the mod as far as what characters would be in the game. Characters don't seem to have jack to do with alignment, so it seemed like a completely trumped up way to try and discredit/cast aspersion on someone.

 

Despo, you have it backwards. I think your laptop problem kept you from saying the things that cause me to think you are mafia. The only thing that really stood out was that you were agreeing and in a way even following me. that was a bit off your meta to me but not enough to cause me to put you at the top of my lists. Now that you have been viewed town and cleared by the LD shot (if they are legit) it looks like you are as close as confirmed as can be. As to why not case you I have limited time and hotter leads at the time.

 

The purpose of thinking about which people would be more likely or not to be in the game had to do with attempting to catch mafia trying to sneak in a person that I doubted would be in the game. Turned out I was wrong about Cindy so I guess anyone on the list can be in the game. I never said that certain people like shadows or light would be mafia or not. 

 

Did you have a problem with me relating that the light faction members would be affected by the taint? I thought Tina made it very clear so didn't really understand why csarmi has a problem with it. Maybe because he is newer in the BT so didn't realize that it was so obvious.

 

 

Meh on most the other stuff, but one thing I can't let you slide on is the character thing.

 

What motivation would mafia have for "trying to sneak in a person" that you doubt would be in the game? It was already established before the game began that the characters would be random, and wouldn't necessarily have any impact on alignment. So why in the world would any mafia try to lie about what character they were?

 

No, I think I was right on the money on this point. I think you were trying to look for anything you could to try and cast doubt on someone.

  

I'm not sure how much I'm going to around today, My Migraine has come back and it's hard work being on here. We still have over two days until deadline, so not a problem.

 

Not liking diff peeps attitudes towards the deadline, acting like everything is cool, no rush, we'll get there when we get there. That exact type of behavior is what leads to random lynches, rushed lynches at the end where scum can hide votes amongst consolidation votes, etc.

 

It's pretty antitown imo to act like there's no rush. What better time to scumhunt than NOW?! Carpe Dee Scum!

[Leyrann]

Some strong points Des. I think I'll

 

vote Talya

 

for now. It was maybe a bit too forgiving of me that I didn't call her out for forgetting/not mentioning I had viewed you too. RTE and Turin also seem like pretty good targets to me, though I think Talya is at the moment the scummiest.

[Leyrann]

By the way, we have 11 people left. After tonight, that is 9, and if that happens, we most likely CANNOT mislynch anymore, if the mafia are - as to be expected with a 15 player game - with four. So if we don't find scum, we're most likely in some serious trouble.

[Niniel]

get better Tina.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Feel better, Tina. *hug*

 

 

Thanks.  Still sick but will do my best. 

 

 

Vote count

 

Ed (1) - RTE

Talya (3) - NotBasel, Des, Talya

 

Not voting: Dice, Talya, Ed, Lenlo, Via,  Pral, Turin

 

 

It´s now Day 3. With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline is Monday 9 PM CET. 

 

[Niniel]

If Ed doesn´t show up today I will try to find a replacement. 

[Turin Turambar]

Despo, read all the scenes. Now tell me who the mafia are. I say it is pretty obvious. Very early on D1 there were several people that came out and character claimed. The mafia were not about to claim their real names. It would be like claiming sauron in a LotR game. So they would need to make up names to not out themselves. I was suspicious that Cindy would be in the game but was wrong. The reasoning to look for faked characters is valid IMO however.

 

just woke up so more later

[Leyrann]

I disagree, Turin. Most names are chosen at random.

[Basel Gill]

(This was directed at Basel, not me)

 

Just wanted to mention what specific things I didn't like from this post. Mostly all the attempts to redirect focus onto someone else seem like very poor defense (Oh, you said I posted fluff but so did Hallia too!). Talya, you shouldn't be concerned with trying to compare your play to others in an attempt to clear yourself, you should be explaining WHY you did the things you did, and then talk about who YOU actually think could be scum.

Des, Hally isn't playing in this one.

[Turin Turambar]

Most are random. I will agree to that. But the scenes make it pretty clear that Tina and the BT staff (most likely Panchi, Me or Basel, and someone else if there are 4) are the mafia. The first night kill talked about teaching trollocs. Tina loves her baby trollocs. The second night kill mentioned dolls and every long time BT member knows Tina's affection for dolls of a certain type.  That the doll matched the victim makes it fairly obvious to me. 

 

To not look at the scenes is sticking your head in the sand.  The title even says REVOLT. the opening scene says that Tina has info that BT members are trying to overthrow her. Every scene mentions if the STAFF will kill us in the night. So far no current staff members have flipped town. Seems to be enough evidence to at least not throw away the idea.

 

I am just saying read the scenes and think about it. 

[Leyrann]

I know that it's a revolt against the staff. But then again, do you know when this game was created? Because the staff has been changing recently, so we CAN'T exactly know who can be mafia and who not. And besides, what if for example the character "Leyrann" is staff member X in disguise? That is a possibility too.

[Turin Turambar]

There has been staff changes recently. There could be people that were staff and now aren't and people that are staff but weren't previously. That is why I mentioned Turin or Basel. But I doubt you will find anyone claim to be Tina. 

 

That would be a fake character claim. Which is what I was getting at in the first place. trying to see if certain people made sense as fake claims. I was wrong about Cindy being a character so I guess that part is out of whack. I still say that it was worth looking into in order to try to smoke out fake claims. Now it will require a cc on characters to try to catch a mafia that way.

[Leyrann]

Depends. If mafia is chosen at random too, they can claim their own. Otherwise we indeed have a chance to get mafia that way. I'm not sure if it's time for a mass claim already though. Not to mention mafia could wait a bit to get most of the town claimed to have safer fake claims. Everyone knows the pool where people can come from...

[ed2funy]

Hey guys, I am really really sorry, I have been really sick and didn't even honk to post to say so.

Swollen throat, headaches, generally feeling like a big pile of crap.

I finally went to the ER today and they have me a steroid shot and pills. Feel a lot better.

Awaiting Tina's verdict, but if she hasn't gotten someone, I'm on a start catching up.

[Niniel]

Oh, sorry to hear that but I´m happy to hear that you are getting better. I haven´t searched for a replacement so if you want to, please go ahead and play. *hugs*

[hazelkrs1]

Starting reread, doubt I'll be able to finish tonight. Had a busy night, even with an extra hour.

[Talya]

You're thinking of either a BusDriver Ley, or something else like a Mirror role or something. Or Nexus I guess. A Framer makes people look like mafia when viewed, not the other way around.

 

And thank you for making the point I was about to regarding my viewing. Don't think Talya would have missed that tbh, at least not if she was town. As scum she'd look for anything to try and spread wifom about someone. Really feeling good about my vote on Talya right now.

 

We have WAY too few people actually playing btw. There's nothing to excuse this many people lurking, you can't all have rl stuff going on at the same time that prevents you from playing. Any lurkers better come forward with some kind of explanation soon and start playing or Ill start sniping yall from the bushes.

 

Gonna quickly peruse the last few pages to see if there was specific stuff I had to respond to. Don't think I'll be able to do a reread tonight, was busy at work. I'll see tho.

 

I didn't see it. But then having had a cluster of migraines for the last 4 days doesn't help. And don't you dare accuse me of making excuses about not rushing a lynch. There was two and half days I was feeling crap and couldn't read the screen  properly but came in to say so. I NEVER fake any RL and never have! So trying to make me look scummy because of that is bad play. And you are looking to try and boast a weak case. I did miss it, and actually, I would be less likely to miss is if I was scum. There would be a team telling me and talking about who had been cleared on the QT. So your theory is rubbish!

 

i also find it funny, that you criticise me for at the moment thinking RTE is town, but also complaining about his play. there could be a GF, which is why I don't think he is definitely town, and so finding odd things about what he does is a way to look at if he is town or not. Oh wait, just what you did. I picked up on his play, because it wasn't pro town, whether he is town or not. 

 

hope you get better soon Ed

[hazelkrs1]

@Turin: I have read the scenes btw, but I don't think that will have any bearing on your "theory". Tina and staff are using mirror of mists weaves to "play as" (using the wording Tina has used) various members of the revolt. They wouldn't come as themselves. I think the characters are exactly like Tina said, randomly chosen.

 

Furthermore, even if you were right and that the mafia team is all staff like you, Panchi, Tina, and Basel possibly, I still don't buy you trying to push the idea that Cindy wouldn't be in the game. Makes no sense whatsoever. Cindy has been one of the most dedicated members of the BT for some time, she has earned her place in the BT family many times over. Don't buy that you wouldn't think she'd be in the game.

[hazelkrs1]

 

You're thinking of either a BusDriver Ley, or something else like a Mirror role or something. Or Nexus I guess. A Framer makes people look like mafia when viewed, not the other way around.

 

And thank you for making the point I was about to regarding my viewing. Don't think Talya would have missed that tbh, at least not if she was town. As scum she'd look for anything to try and spread wifom about someone. Really feeling good about my vote on Talya right now.

 

We have WAY too few people actually playing btw. There's nothing to excuse this many people lurking, you can't all have rl stuff going on at the same time that prevents you from playing. Any lurkers better come forward with some kind of explanation soon and start playing or Ill start sniping yall from the bushes.

 

Gonna quickly peruse the last few pages to see if there was specific stuff I had to respond to. Don't think I'll be able to do a reread tonight, was busy at work. I'll see tho.

 

I didn't see it. But then having had a cluster of migraines for the last 4 days doesn't help. And don't you dare accuse me of making excuses about not rushing a lynch. There was two and half days I was feeling crap and couldn't read the screen  properly but came in to say so. I NEVER fake any RL and never have! So trying to make me look scummy because of that is bad play. And you are looking to try and boast a weak case. I did miss it, and actually, I would be less likely to miss is if I was scum. There would be a team telling me and talking about who had been cleared on the QT. So your theory is rubbish!

 

i also find it funny, that you criticise me for at the moment thinking RTE is town, but also complaining about his play. there could be a GF, which is why I don't think he is definitely town, and so finding odd things about what he does is a way to look at if he is town or not. Oh wait, just what you did. I picked up on his play, because it wasn't pro town, whether he is town or not. 

 

hope you get better soon Ed

 

 

1. You can truthfully have had a migraine and still be scum. Saying there wasn't a rush was antitown imo. Has nothing to do with how busy or indisposed you actually were.

 

2. "As scum I would..." statements are rubbish. I think as scum you'd be less likely to truly consider that angle and just do what you can to discredit those that have been cleared.

 

3. You keep saying cases against you are weak, without ever explaining why. Looks really bad.

 

4. It's fine to still be wary of RTE, or anybody viewed as town since a GF could very much be possible. But to go from thinking that RTE could be GF, to then thinking I could be mafia, isn't believable, as you would have immediately realized 2 GF's is a bit much.

[Talya]

How could I think there were two GF, when I didn't realise Ley had said you were town. When I said that and I was saying that RTE could have easily have made you look town by doing the LD, after he had been viewed town by Ley. It would leave WIFOM, which I did say.

 

I don't care whether you thought that me saying there was no rush being antitown was scum is your opinion, I don't see it as anything but explaining I'm not going to around and it wasn't going to hurt the game, guess what, it didn't. But I notice you didn't say it to others on day one, when they said it. There was nothing I could do and I wasn't going to rush anything. like I said you say things to fit what you want it to fit. 

 

I have responded to things said before, but because you think something I say is scum is very much how you read it, I can't change that. And what I say isn't going to change that, you've got you mind made up.

 

As for me saying about what other people have done and comparing it to me is bad, I was actually comparing what Basel said. He tried to make it look that because I had 3 fluff posts could mean I was mafia, he used the words together to make it look like it was a reasoning and yet then talks about someone else having fluff posts and didn't mention it. So I was questioning that, I wasn't comparing me and Via at all...but how some people use an excuse to try and make someone seem scum when ignoring others that have done the same, It is like making the reasons to fit what he wanted. The same thing you have done about the "not rushing" stuff. 

[ReleaseTheEvil]

First,

 

Unvote.

 

Hope you start feeling a lot better quickly Ed. All the best.

 

Town:

 

RTE

Turin

Ley

 

Scum:

 

Lenlo

Dice

Talya

Ed

 

Not sure (Town I guess?):

 

Pral

NotBasel

Via

 

Now, my list.

 

First of all I will not be doing another ISO case this game. I made one and no one even commented on it, I took the time to do it and not even Cloud himself cared. So whatever. VT should only have to work so hard if no one acknowledges it.

 

Lenlo: Based off interactions with Cloud, who we know is now town. Cloud's flip has a very large impact on this list and while he forgot about Lenlo after voting him I didn't. A lot of why I think Lenlo is based on gut feeling but I don't think is play is particularly town and am not liking his posting.

Dice: Have to go back and see his interactions after csarmi's casing of him and reread his response. Definitely  a scum candidate.

Talya: Strong scum read after ISOing Cloud. Going through my Cloud case you should see why I think. Of csarmi or Talya I think Talya is scum.

Ed: Will give him the benefit of the doubt. Will see what happens with his posting from here on out.

 

Otherwise same few people posting. I think talking character claims are a waste of time, whether you find that statement scummy or not. I am not a GF. There might be one but I'm not it. I like the "can't say there are two GFs" argument because that was some faulty logic. Don't think it's a scum tell on Tina's part though. Still leaning town on her.

[ReleaseTheEvil]

Oh. Forgot this bit.

 

Vote Talya.

[ReleaseTheEvil]

My mistake, it was Talya who seemed to suggest there was two GFs (sorry, read this all soon after waking).

 

Alone, maybe not a huge deal. Coming from Talya though, happy with my vote.