[Game]: Black Tower Mafia II - The revolt.

[Turin Turambar]

Figuratively yes. I am very surprised there would be a LD ability of any sort in a basic game like this. Especially as an actual role. I could see as a taint thingy but as a role just feels off.

[ReleaseTheEvil]

It was one shot, don't worry.

 

Couldn't reveal though for obvious reasons.

 

csarmi should not have revealed.

[ReleaseTheEvil]

Town:

 

RTE

Turin

Ley

 

Scum:

 

Lenlo

Dice

Talya

Ed

 

Not sure (Town I guess?):

 

Pral

NotBasel

Via

[ReleaseTheEvil]

Vote Ed.

[ReleaseTheEvil]

Forgot Des on my town list.

[Basel Gill]

Okay, I am going to take Salami's ISO workaround out for a spin here. I'm going to be examining everyone's posts, although I may take a long while here.

Two things to keep in mind: There is no quote or multiquote button on the search results. This means that anyone wanting to do it this way has to click on each individual post to see it within the thread, multiquote, and then use the back button to return to the results list! When you click the next post the same way, it will remember your multiquote choices. Secondly, I am examining people in the order of the player list in Tina's OP. Don't read anything into what order I do people in. I'm starting with Dice.

 

im here. so the game may continue!

Fluff. But it's not uncommon for a check-in post to be fluff. Multiple fluff posts with everyone else getting down to business would ping, but Dice isn't doing that.

 

 

I thought the ley vote built too quick but i can see why.

 

Ley, bro i think you need to learn from history. If you keep getting lynched early and dont like it then you probably need to change something about ure game. If these rules of ures are a step in that direction fine, but i hope u note the reaction  they have gotten you and that they did not stop you from almost getting lynched. Take it as a lesson or hint or whatever and use it to build on.

 

Csarmi WHY do you think he was in no danger of being lynched at L-2?

Ley tends to get run up early a lot. I'm reading this as wanting Ley to be a better player longterm and not just focusing on this game in particular. And Ley had been acting scummy prior to his claim, so any suspicion of him at that point is excusable.

 

csarmi I didnt have a problem with the basel bit about getting two votes real quick.  thats just a fact.

Defends Basel 1.0. A sound point, since I've seen L-2 turn into a lynch in less than an hour in some games. But I've been getting run up early in a lot of games myself lately, so maybe he is legitimately thinking that Basel 1.0's behavior isn't indicative of alignment.

 

hmm  thought id posted more then that.

 

 

anyways  I dont see ley fake claiming cop   just dont see it in him. 

 

am wary of Csarmi due to his "not in danger of being lynched" bit and his late late justification

 

I cant really whinge about basel as if i dont check a VC i often lose track of exactly how many votes are on someone unless im real close to deadline.

More defense of Basel. I had a counting dumb last time around, and Dice excuses it cause he's done the same thing. I'm not seeing anything that pings me majorly here; if he has made the same mistake then he should be aware that it's possible it could really happen.

 

if i voted right now it would be you. But im not completely sold. therefore im holding off.  

 

What is with all the rush to lynch in this game??  Its already made the cop reveal and yet you are still in a hurry

 

Rush to lynch on D1 is bad. Goes after Salami for going after Ley. But Ley was digging his own grave, same as ever.

 

@talya  I had previously said i was wary of him and he started pushing for me to vote. 2 days out from DL Well guess what? I dont have a solid read on anyone  wary is about the strongest feeling i have at this point. My comment there was in direct response to Csarmi

 

to quote John Malkovich in Rounders  "Ill splash (read vote) the pot whenever I please."

 

I wasn't threatening. simply stating who i would vote for right then

Not having a solid read on D1? When no one has been flipped yet and there is no solid confirmed info at all? Hardly pingworthy there.

 

@des

 

 

I thought the ley vote built too quick but i can see why.

 

Ley, bro i think you need to learn from history. If you keep getting lynched early and dont like it then you probably need to change something about ure game. If these rules of ures are a step in that direction fine, but i hope u note the reaction  they have gotten you and that they did not stop you from almost getting lynched. Take it as a lesson or hint or whatever and use it to build on.

 

Csarmi WHY do you think he was in no danger of being lynched at L-2?

 

 

the highlighted. THAT put egg on my face??  seriously?  I posted this on page 8 and Ley had claimed 2 or 3 pages earlier . You are saying thats not quick? to almost lynch and get a claim in 5 pages on DAY 1????

 

I think you are grasping at straws des

 

5 pages is insanely quick for a claim.

 

I wont be getting up at 6 am for DL. I will vote Basel because it looks like the only lynch that will get thru.

 

night

 

At the time, I think I was a foregone conclusion and town needed the info.

 

Csarmi plz dont tell people how to play or how to shape their posts. Its getting annoying

 

This one is slightly pingy, because Dice's earlier posts to Ley sound like telling him how to play.

 

Csarmi do you actually have a reason for your tunneling on me?

 

Other then the fact that I didn't post when you wanted? Or that im a low poster?  let me give you a hint...Im ALWAYS a low poster.  about the only time i wasn't was when i was the Oracle

Dice is often a low poster. I think it would ping harder if he went counter to his own meta.

 

 

The Dice minicase.

• • #3064141 - a nice intro
  • #3065068 - Sees why the Ley vote built fast, do learn from history. Calls out Csarmi for saying L-2 wasn't a danger. This post pings a little because of how he plays the all-uderstanding diplomat here. Seen him do it as scum.  oh my apologies for seeing the big picture!  btw thats sarcasm csarmi
  • 
    
  • #3065166 - Two easy votes = fact. In his opinion anyway.  what youve never seen mafia swoop and lynch someone in a few minutes?
  • 
    
  • #3066138 - Just can't see Ley false claiming Cop. Yea right. Wary about Csarmi, fence sitting on Basel.
  • #3066160 - Still don't care to vote (play, in other words) and the "why rush to lynch omg we already have the cop claimed" is as scummy as it gets. Reasons: slow down, don't play please is maffia argument, also the way he refrerences the cop reveal is just baaad.  .lets see  im in 2 games atm. in both of them a majoe PR has been forced into claiming D1. in both of them that person was on their way to getting lynched. ley very nearly got there.So what ?? we shouldn't be wary of rushing lynches? after we just majorly screwed one up?
  • 
    
  • #3066572 - Reflects on Talya calling him out why he don't vote. He still doesn't, btw.  gods forbid i should respond to someone and explain myself!
  • 
    
  • #3066576 - AtE sounding defense on Des calling him out on his second post. I don't like the tone. Double question marks FTL.  
  • #3067155 - He says he won't be getting up and places an L-1 vote on Basel. Nothing special here.
  • 
    
  • #3067912 - defends vs Despo calling him out on the wifom thing might wanna check your link...thats me asking you not to tell people how to play or post cause its annoying and is something you do often.  and wasnt it LEY that you were telling how to post not des?
  • 
    
  • #3068541 - "so Darthe was being honest" <-- yea like I said earlier, you were very curious how your night kill would work out  .  He sometimes makes early claims and i never believe him. I was surprised that this time he told the truth. thats it.
  • 
    
  • #3069023 - This post reeks, seriously, you should read it.  yeah not seeing what your talking about. was in response to three votes on pral, referenced the favt we hurried and almost lynched our cop and answered RTE re a discussion about modkilling.
  • 
    
  • #3069442 - "Why you tunneling at me csarmi"? Meta defense. I can't wait to see you pull RL.  hmm lets see  you have been pushing me without evidence for a while now. You unvoted to vote someone else to then suggest me to them then came back voting me. All before giving any reasons. no reasons were given until I accused you of tunneling. So yes I'd say you are tunneling.
  • 
    This is not a town Dice.
    Can we lynch him please?

 

 

In regards to the Des thing Csarmi was talking about, apparently csarmi cant read incredulity and humor together. I saw the post earlier but cant find it again now.  It was a response to des saying i had egg on my face

 

Serious tunneling going on here against the town doc. Csarmi didn't play a very town game, though.

 

Csarmi do you actually have a reason for your tunneling on me?

 

Other then the fact that I didn't post when you wanted? Or that im a low poster?  let me give you a hint...Im ALWAYS a low poster.  about the only time i wasn't was when i was the Oracle

Btw, constantly being a low poster isn't exactly something you should be proud of, or be able to say without cringing. Just means you consistently don't help your team out as much as you could. And you shouldn't post a lot more just because you have a juicy role, makes it way too easy for scum to figure out your role when you're town.

 

Please don't say you don't post much because of timezones either. There are PLENTY of people who are on diff timezones, or diff sleep schedules like me, who are able to post a lot more with ease.

 

I understand RL issues tho, and I know a while ago you were still dealing with em. Just sayin, I wouldn't bring up that you are always a low poster as if that was a good thing.

 

 

sorry erased the top bit of this trying to get rid of the unneeded. its des quoting me.

 

Oracle gave me a lot of info and there was a lot of conversation aimed at me. hence the extra high post count.

 

Didnt say I like it. Just said thats how it is. and quantity does not equate to helping ure team more. Im a quiet player I give my thoughts when i have them and thats what i should be doing.

 

Quote fail Again, Dice is basically playing as himself, and not going suspiciously outside his meta.

 

Would you like to just tell us all what to post and when as well csarmi?

Starting to get annoyed on a personal level, perhaps he was. Doesn't mean he's scum, just that he might be a little thin-skinned. Verdict on Dice: town.

[Lenlo]

Town:

 

RTE

Turin

Ley

 

Scum:

 

Lenlo

Dice

Talya

Ed

 

Not sure (Town I guess?):

 

Pral

NotBasel

Via

So you gonna give reasons for this list or am I going to have to argue it out of you?

 

I have suspicions why your going for each one but I want to hear it from you.

[ReleaseTheEvil]

Oh but I think  it will be all the more interesting if you tell me your suspicions about why I'm going for each one.

 

That way you can't just agree and disagree with me

[Lenlo]

Oh but I think  it will be all the more interesting if you tell me your suspicions about why I'm going for each one.

 

That way you can't just agree and disagree with me

Seeing as im on the list and your the one making the assertions that I and some others are scum, You better start talking

 

Also the fact that your dodging the question and turning it around on me is noted and filed.

[ReleaseTheEvil]

Only because you claim to know why I have those reads.

 

Would love some insight into your insight.

[Basel Gill]

Look at everyone having fun and you didn't wait for me...hmmm. 

 

Ley, I respect that you have your little 'rules' but don't expect everyone else to follow then, and don't get upset when we ignore them. Because that is just asking for a wind up  

 

so if Ley has his rules, does that mean he is actually ley and if he isn't Ley in character, does that mean he will ignore them :p

 

 

 

ahhh, but what if he is in character, but not as himself, but as someone else who is using ley's rules to try and pretend to be Ley?

 

the plot gets thicker...

 

 

 

Maybe someone could kill him now! Please :p (only j/k...honestly csarmi)

3 posts of fluff. Is that too much? Has anyone ever set a measuremnt of how much fluff is enough to be pingy?

 

 

 

The mafia wouldn't know who was cop, and I didn't say they did. Ley was pressured and revealed, he could have revealed anything, but unfortunately it was cop. he could have been doc, watcher etc...or vanilla, but every reveal is more useful to Mafia (they most likely know if they are telling the truth), we just have to guess and see if there is a cc. 

 

I agree he does need to try to adopt a less-reactive style, however he is still young and this is not like turning a switch off. he's already done it on the sign up thread, so people could easily see what was going to happen. But to blame him totally is a little naive.

Nice. Please note that Talya never assumes (not even as a second thought, or just as a hypothesis) that Ley could be maffia. This is wrong for two reasons:

• As per the quotes above, she doesn't claim she believes him, but she doesn't claim she doesn't believe him either. So she's claiming to be uncertain (or just refuses to take a stance).
• Yea well the only way she could be sure Ley was town - yea you guessed right - if she's maffia

@Talya - it's hard when you know someone's alignment isn't it? Hard to react naturally I take it? Not to mention on a cop claim that you wouldn't like to validate. Hard stuff.

 

 

Sorry csarmi, really don't get this, I was answering someone else on what could have happened, so it's out of context for starters. You say I'm claiming to be uncertain, please show me someone who is certain about Ley, the only thing that makes me think he is more likely to be town is because of the votes on him, unless all 6 votes were town votes. Hence there is doubt in my mind and it will stay there.

 

This sounds to me like you are going through my words and twisting round, oh wait, didn't you accuse me of doing that.

 

Honestly, Talya, that kind of read to me also that you were taking it for granted that Ley was telling the truth with his claim.

  

 

He first puts me at L-2 (within 24 hours after the game started, and with, I think, about 72, maybe 96 hours to go), on page 5, above all, and then he continues to talk about how L-2 is REALLY close to a lynch, and how two mafia could easily jump in and end that poor townie. Which I agree, but I don't put someone at L-2 that early.

 

It's a bit like he's doing something, then he's saying how it's very, very, very bad to do that at that moment.

 

I see what you mean now, I was tired when I reread last night, but that clairifies it. thank you. 

 

 

I think the Basel vote to move Ley to L-2 to be the most sketchy of all the votes on the Ley train. It was a bit too early to go there with out a blatant slip from Ley.

IMO Ley's superdefensive play prior to his reveal was a slip in itself. At the time, he was behaving massively scummy, and I voted him for it. As things are now, he's a claimed cop with no CC, but that didn't apply when I made my vote, since he hadn't claimed then.

 

 

How was Ley's superdefensive play a slip, when that is how he normally plays. If you are using that as just the reason for you thinking he was scummy. you didn't say you thought he was scummy when you voted, just that he was 'overreacting and hyperdefensive'

 

This is what stands out to me with Talya's posts. Earlier she calls out Csarmi for twisting her words. Okay, that's fine... it would have been fine if she didn't then proceed to do the same thing with Basel 1.0 that she accuses Csarmi of doing. Basel in fact called her out on this; she claims he never said he thought Ley was scummy when he voted Ley. Basel did say he thought Ley was scummy; he said when he made the Ley vote that Ley's defensive and overreactive play made him think Ley was scum. Now if you're going to go after someone for twisting your own words, don't twist anyone else's words.

 

Verdict: scum.

[Basel Gill]

Side note, before anyone asks: I am not voting Talya because I wish to finish my reads on everyone, or at least as many as I can tonight, before committing. That could last a while.

[Lenlo]

Only because you claim to know why I have those reads.

 

Would love some insight into your insight.

Dont change my words, I never said I know why you have the reads you do for each one I said suspicions.

 

 

Town:

 

RTE

Turin

Ley

 

Scum:

 

Lenlo

Dice

Talya

Ed

 

Not sure (Town I guess?):

 

Pral

NotBasel

Via

So you gonna give reasons for this list or am I going to have to argue it out of you?

 

I have suspicions why your going for each one but I want to hear it from you.

 

See? Strike 2 against you for my notes.

[Lenlo]

Oh and once again your dodging the question.

[Basel Gill]

About Des: when I committed to giving a rundown of everyone, I didn't expect it to take so long. So I'm going to just say I have a town read on Des. He's caught a couple of interesting bits regarding RTE that I want to look at closer when I get to him.

 

There's got to be an easier, faster way of doing a rundown like this. But I'm going to try and give some thoughts on everyone.

 

ED: Takes a while to get going. Then once things got serious, he stops to let us know:

 

TMD is a poopyhead.

>.>

 

Hehehehehe

Neither one of which is all that informative. Or insightful. Or useful. Fluff.

 

Oh wow. Looks like Turin gave Basel the perfect opportunity to tunnel his way out with a rope of lies.

LIES AND DECEIT!

You were so sure about that, weren't you? And like Turin said, how do you tunnel your way out with a rope? Where did Ed go, anyhow?

[Basel Gill]

Edit to above... Verdict on Ed: leaning toward scum. More activity from him would help give some data.

[ReleaseTheEvil]

Relax Lenscum. I will when I get the chance. Past 1 am here and I was still working on a study protocol. It's a "holiday", chill. We'll get around to lynching you in due time.

[Lenlo]

Relax Lenscum. I will when I get the chance. Past 1 am here and I was still working on a study protocol. It's a "holiday", chill. We'll get around to lynching you in due time.

Subtly pushing me as scum as if you had me dead to writes when you couldnt be more wrong.

 

As for it being a holiday its the same here, I just spent the entire day celebratin. 

[csarmi]

Now I can rest in peace. Go town!

[Basel Gill]

Len: starts off by voicing his suspicions of Pral, but votes Darthe. Claims it's a joke vote. Once you have suspicions on someone, you shouldn't be joke voting. But that's about all I get from him, and his pursuit of RTE for things I'm finding scummy as well strikes me as town. Verdict on Len: town.

 

Via: A lot of early fluff from her in the first few hours.

 

I kinda agree, too much talk about Ley's rules, but is there anything else of note at this point?

Tries to shift attention away from Ley after the claim. Possible buddying, but I find myself leaning away from it being such. She doesn't keep at it and lets things develop naturally rather than trying to force the talk in one direction. So I'll call her town.

 

Ley: Claimed cop with no cc yet? No reason to doubt him. I think we would have had a cc by now if Ley was lying. Town.

 

Pral: Seems town so far. Disappeared for a while but then came back. Developed a large bit of the case on Cloud, but it was well-argued and if I'd been around, I would have found a lot of that scummy too.

[Basel Gill]

Turin: began the case on Ley when Ley voted RTE for being "last" to check in, which he wasn't. I don't mind that. Later on Turin spends a bit of time talking about setup. This doesn't strike me as a slip. I'm leaning toward town for Turin.

Which brings me to RTE. Ley tells us he viewed RTE as town. I'm wondering if he is the godfather. RTE called out Ley for bad language. In fact, he was the first one to mention it. He was the one to bring up the possibility of a modkill. And later on he went out of his way to be evasive about his reasoning behind his list of reads when pressured on it by Len. Evasiveness is evasive... and scummy.

And with that, I have as scum: Talya, Ed, RTE. And I'm going to vote Talya.

[Leyrann]

My LD shot I used last night.

 

Turin ready to eat your hat?

 

I'm not sure if I have to believe an LD shot in a basic game, but either way, I viewed Des last night, and he indeed got viewed as town. Not sure if RTE is more scummy now because he claims to have an LD read, or more townie because his LD read is the same as my read... Or maybe he's lying about the role and tracked me or something like that, and from me not coming out "Des is scum" knew that Des had to be town. I don't know.

 

Also, RTE, one cannot properly express their opinion about someone's opinion until that someone has given his opinion. So stop evading and START. TALKING.

[hazelkrs1]

Basel, LERVE your catch up posts. Well done sir, and welcome to my town reads.

 

Short thoughts for now cause I'm coming back to do a big reread on this thread next-

 

I'm thinking Turin is scum. He normally tunnels me as town, and with my play this game I could have easily seen him thinking I was scum (haven't been able to be as attentive without my laptop). And yet he fencesits a bit on me and says me agreeing with him makes him uncomfortable. I tried giving him the biggest opening I could for him to case me after that, and he didn't. Plus I really don't like how earlier in the game he tried gaming the mod as far as what characters would be in the game. Characters don't seem to have jack to do with alignment, so it seemed like a completely trumped up way to try and discredit/cast aspersion on someone.

 

However Talya was one of my early scum reads, and seeing how now others are voting her, I think I shall Unvote (jic), Vote Talya.

 

Thanks for the big target on my back btw guys. Double confirmed town, I'm sure I'll get to see endgame...

 

[Talya]

Turin: began the case on Ley when Ley voted RTE for being "last" to check in, which he wasn't. I don't mind that. Later on Turin spends a bit of time talking about setup. This doesn't strike me as a slip. I'm leaning toward town for Turin.

 

Which brings me to RTE. Ley tells us he viewed RTE as town. I'm wondering if he is the godfather. RTE called out Ley for bad language. In fact, he was the first one to mention it. He was the one to bring up the possibility of a modkill. And later on he went out of his way to be evasive about his reasoning behind his list of reads when pressured on it by Len. Evasiveness is evasive... and scummy.

 

And with that, I have as scum: Talya, Ed, RTE. And I'm going to vote Talya.

 

so you think I'm scum because I missed you calling someone scummy., And even try to make 3 fluff posts look like it might be scum...no amount of fluff posts proves scum or town, and Via had more than me and not mentioned. As for the me being definite about Ley, I wasn't just wrote it that way, because I forgot to put "is he is telling the truth" get fed up with putting that in when writing and I forget, it ruins the flow of the speech. 

 

Other than that you don't even have a case, and you are wrong. I'm town :p If that is all you have it is a very weak case and haven't read through that well, missed the rest of the days,. RTE was said to be town by Ley, and yet he is on your scum list. If you are going to do a read through do all of it, it makes it look like you are being lazy. Interesting that you do a whole case on Dice (who I still think is mafia) and find him town, then do a half hearted one on me to find me mafia and don't bother on anyone else...this is very telling. 

 

@RTE, why Ed please and why do you suspect the others. not interested in your chat with Lenlo about who is going to say it, at the moment I believe you are town unless something else happens, but your interaction with Lenlo is looking odd. 

[hazelkrs1]

The amount of over defensiveness, whyme fryme of that post from Talya's is extremely telling. As is her defense of Ed.