Battles (Full Spoilers)

[A Duke]

I read the long thread to this point.

I think that biggest problem with the battles was the approach. It was all wrong.

with the introduction of the channelers we should have something more a kin to modern warfare, not Napoleonic/Spartans vs hordes of Persians kind of fight.

channelers have the ability to provide most of the functions of modern warfare to a good degree (or even higher then in real nowadays combat).

* information, you can gather and transfer information as good or better then satellites, spy planes, drones etc.

the surprise movements of the shadow forces should not have been possible, this is mediated to a point by the betrayal of the great captains.

 

* communication, which allows for command from afar. this is probably the only part which was used properly in the books.

 

* use of mobile artillery, mortars, war planes, rockets etc. both tactical and strategically use.

 

this was addressed very very poorly. I can excuse the light's side poor use for lack of imaginative thinking and having unfamiliar tools. but a great generals from the war of power should have, no, would have known better.

this point could have both solved the biggest problem with the abundance of channelers on the light side and how unbelievable of what happened in the books.

imagine that in the beginning the light though has superior numbers is using their channelers clumsily and ineffectively, while the experienced shadow generals wield them with skill to great success to mediate the numerical advantage?

you could take example from WW2 where though at first Germany was outnumbered by English and French armies they had realized how effectively to use the new weapons. defeating the French, English force, and northern countries.

the story is practically begging for this. all the element are already in place. instead we get a meaningless unimaginative grind, where the channelers had to be downplayed and numbers artificially diminished because the writers decided to force a battle plan on the story instead of using the elements in place.

 

what about all the non channelrs you ask? they are the infantry. and as in the real world, if you want to conquer and hold land, you have to do this with infantry.

 

this approach also solves the problem we had that most of the world didn't notice there was a last battle. modern war introduced the concept of total war.

in my mind the population of the light controlled territories is mobilized to create arrows and bows for the lights infantry who are spread out across the cities and their surroundings trying to control the movements of the enemy channelers.

I envision the shadow striking at cities and supply camps. I still can't believe they didn't attack mayne, the story was asking for it.

 

I know this isn't too focused but if there is someone who still reads it and wants to discuss farther... :)

[Aulduron]

There was only one general from the war of power in the last battle.

[A Duke]

I am not sure what your point is. However what I was saying is that this one general should have used better strategy and tactics as his tools (the channelers) allowed.

This would have resulted in tactics similar to modern warfare, at least imo.

the way I see it is that what should have held the light's forces from breaking and loosing is the combination of numerical advantage (like the Russians in Barbarossa) and Mat's superior skill as a general.

what did the sharan channelers and dread lords do all the while that the trollocs were moving to Merrilor? why didn't they strike at Mayne? why didn't they strike at the light's supply lines and food stores? why did they mindlessly engaged?

focusing all the trollocs in one spot also goes against reason as the channelers (and dragons) are most useful when the enemy is condensed. why not dispatch small (tens of thousands) trolloc forces to ravage the light's civilians fracturing it's forces?

in my eyes the battle of Merrilor didn't naturally develop but was forced against reason on the books. oh, I can believe in one big battle that decides the war. but not the way it went in the book.

Edited April 2, 2013 by A Duke

[Aulduron]

That was part of Matts gamble when he retreated to Merrilor. He said he had to give them what looked like an easy target, so they'd come wipe him out and ravage the countryside.

 

Both Matt and Gareth were against commanding from afar, although they figured that's how wars would be fought in the future.

 

Demandred was too obsessed with beating Rand one on one to think about hitting their supplies or wounded. He, like all the Forsaken are very selfish.

[A Duke]

ok, so we assume that the shadow's general was the most incompetent general possible with the sequence in Merrilor because he was obsessed with Rand, since he disregarded the basics of fighting a war. how does it answer the question why was he so incompetent before that.

He had a while (about a week, but I don't remember exactly) to use his channelers and himself to wreak havoc on the armies supply lines, logistic centers and just random civilian population. What stopped him then?

There are so many various uses for channelers in battle/war. The easiest way to look at it is to compare to the possibilities opened by technology and their application in modern warfare. However in the WoT universe one of the best generals in the age of legends, who has fought years in one of the bloodiest wars imaginable doesn't use any of that? to me it's just the writers forcing what they want to happen on the story and disregarding the world that has been created.

[mbuehner]

what did the sharan channelers and dread lords do all the while that the trollocs were moving to Merrilor? why didn't they strike at Mayne? why didn't they strike at the light's supply lines and food stores? why did they mindlessly engaged?

focusing all the trollocs in one spot also goes against reason as the channelers (and dragons) are most useful when the enemy is condensed. why not dispatch small (tens of thousands) trolloc forces to ravage the light's civilians fracturing it's forces?

in my eyes the battle of Merrilor didn't naturally develop but was forced against reason on the books. oh, I can believe in one big battle that decides the war. but not the way it went in the book.

Well... I think you can argue that the Light had a superior quantity and quality of channelers available (Demandred couldn't have known most of them would be inexplicably shuffled off to move wagons and tend the wounded in Nerfilvania). Hence dividing the Sharan up would magnify the problem (as theyd be outnumbered wherever they went, especially given the Lights ability to send reserves to attacked points within minutes) while keeping them close at hand would force the Light channelers to come into the range of Sakarnen.

 

For the trollocs the case is even worse. Most of Randland is highly depopulated. The Trollocs would face starvation wherever they marched to, not to mention that was what Rand and his generals expected and planned for them to do (to be combated by using traveling and cavalry to strike at vulnerable points to them and wear them down as they moved deeper into the continent). The LB would have been long over by the time they could march on Tear or Illian, for instance. 

[Suttree]

 

what did the sharan channelers and dread lords do all the while that the trollocs were moving to Merrilor? why didn't they strike at Mayne? why didn't they strike at the light's supply lines and food stores? why did they mindlessly engaged?

focusing all the trollocs in one spot also goes against reason as the channelers (and dragons) are most useful when the enemy is condensed. why not dispatch small (tens of thousands) trolloc forces to ravage the light's civilians fracturing it's forces?

in my eyes the battle of Merrilor didn't naturally develop but was forced against reason on the books. oh, I can believe in one big battle that decides the war. but not the way it went in the book.

Well... I think you can argue that the Light had a superior quantity and quality of channelers available (Demandred couldn't have known most of them would be inexplicably shuffled off to move wagons and tend the wounded in Nerfilvania).

Not to mention the ones that just outright disappeared. That must have had Demandred really scratching his head...

[Rhienne]

I've been going through some of the battle scenes again and just wanted to mention a couple of other things that I have thought regarding the battle scenes (other than the common complaints made about the battles which I also agree with).

 

• Randland hasn't had channelers fighting on the frontlines in major numbers and as an organised force for hundreds of years.  No Asha'man prior to Rand, and AS did not get involved in fighting, other than a few Green's occasionally going off to the Blight.  Having hundreds of channelers suddenly fighting as soldiers may have been somewhat akin to the advent of machine guns on our world, and the way officers took a whole war (and thousands of wasted lives) to accept that the face of war had changed.  I didn't get a sense that fighting had really changed a great deal with the channelers.  Maybe because they were matched by other channelers, but this ties into the general complaint of the channelers not having enough of an impact.  They just didn't seem to cut through trollocs/shadowspawn any better than standard troops.
• The other thing I was disappointed with (probably because it wouldn't really have made sense with the plot!) was I had kind of wanting to see some of the main characters working together on the battlefield, doing awesome things e.g. Nynaeve and Elayne, Mat and Perrin.  I know and accept that our main characters essentially needed to have non-frontline roles, but I think part of the reason I found the battles monotonous because these characters have all been on the frontlines througout the series (Mat at Cairhien, Rand at Dumai's Wells, Nynaeve with Moghedian, everyone at the Cleansing) so them taking a role behind the lines made the action scenes less interesting to me.  I suppose Egwene is the only exception to this, and I perhaps wanted to see the main characters having their own 'moments of awesome' on the battlefield.

[A Duke]

Well... I think you can argue that the Light had a superior quantity and quality of channelers available (Demandred couldn't have known most of them would be inexplicably shuffled off to move wagons and tend the wounded in Nerfilvania). Hence dividing the Sharan up would magnify the problem (as theyd be outnumbered wherever they went, especially given the Lights ability to send reserves to attacked points within minutes) while keeping them close at hand would force the Light channelers to come into the range of Sakarnen.

 

You are mostly right on the first part, but couldn't be more wrong on the second. The light indeed should have commanded many more channeleres, but they should actually be of inferior quality, only the Daman and the BT were trained for war on the light's side. I doubt that WO, WF, kin or even most of the AS are a match to BT, red Aiel or sharan channelers. However I still do believe that quantity trumps quality here, since the disparity is huge. Plus it seems like the light should have a huge advantage with objects of the OP.

By all accounts of the OP I would have expected the light to steamroll the shadow forces in a concentrated fight. A head on fight with lesser numbers is the biggest mistake imaginable and should really be a last option (generally speaking). Lets review the goals of the shadow, it was to cause as much death and destruction on humanity, it was on the offensive. Why should the shadow engage on loosing odds? for a defensive force it makes sense, but for offense? that's where the forcing the story on the view of the writer happened.

when you have a lesser but more capable force you strike at the weak spots (just like Ituralde did in the Almoth plains campaign). With the flexibility of channelers to show up wherever you want instantly we should have seen raids against logistic centers, supply line, places for rest. we should have seen hits against command centers and commanders etc. this is all quite basic stuff really. The Chosen should possess knowledge from AOL (like that weave Demandred though was on Gawyn), I expected the shadow to use those weaves for surprise. the best attack is the one the enemy can't see coming. I would have settled for the use of the weaves we already saw from Rand. but alas all we get is lightning fireballs and bellfire, less variety then book 1.

I expected that in the larger battles the shadow (and the light) will use the channelers like Machine guns artilery and bombers, making the fighting in battle lines obsolete. Instead we get forced to weak OP out of everyone, so the story could unfold the way the writer wanted and who cares if it's consistent with the world created in 14 books (including NS).

 

As for the trollocs, lets take a closer look at the locations of the two remaining trolloc armies at the point before they went to Merrilor. seem to me like they are much closer to Tar Valon and Cairhien, why not go there instead, and from Cairhien to Tear? or Far Medding? plus there are a lot of villages on the way that can be used.

How about some creative use of portal stones? Maybe an attempt to go through the ways? how about we discover that in the few years the forsaken were loose on of them recreated a growing teranegril for the ways and created a few new exits in the south?

You know what, lets assume that Demandred moved to Merrilor against reason to force the Dragon to face him. why didn't he send small trolloc forces (10k out of millions is negligible) scattering in the country side, maybe converging on Cairhien, forcing the Light to either split efforts or abandoned many civilians to their death. Win win for the shadow.

 

Randland hasn't had channelers fighting on the frontlines in major numbers and as an organised force for hundreds of years.  No Asha'man prior to Rand, and AS did not get involved in fighting, other than a few Green's occasionally going off to the Blight.  Having hundreds of channelers suddenly fighting as soldiers may have been somewhat akin to the advent of machine guns on our world, and the way officers took a whole war (and thousands of wasted lives) to accept that the face of war had changed.  I didn't get a sense that fighting had really changed a great deal with the channelers.

 

 

Exactly! this is what I am trying to say, but maybe my writing is to clumsy to make it through, thanks for that.

the shadow should have had a clear advantage because of that. I can forgive the clumsy efforts of the AS to fight because of inexperience both personal and that of leadership. but I can not say the same for the shadow who had Demandred. it takes 6 to 8 months to make an adequate combat soldier these days, Demandred was in Shara for what, 2 years?

 

 

to me it seems like BS was just lazy and didn't bother to create something that fits in the world created. I can understand that to a point since the world is immense and the task is huge. But I am sure that he could have tried harder. Instead to me it feels like the just threw everything away wrote the battles regardless of the specifics of the WoT universe and then just adjusted everything as best possible. that's how we get wrong channeler numbers, the OP underpowered, many weaves forgotten, strategy out of the window last battle.

[mbuehner]

Wasnt the trolloc army that popped out of Caemlyn destroyed near Cairhien? So the two remaining hordes that descended on Merrillor were both in the Borderlands. Tar Valon is farther from Merrilor than Merrilor is from The Blight (ie- they were only half way to the next population center) and Cairhien is further yet. And there weren't many villages at all in those areas per The Great Hunt (I think they passed through one small one that Fain slaughtered). 

 

Point being- there is one interesting realism to the LB where the side furthest from its base becomes progressively weaker and more vulnerable. It is forced to rely more and more on channelers to provide supplies, reducing the number of channelers available for attack and defense. Fighting the LB so far North played right into Demandred's hands. Now if Merrilor was explained more explicitly to be a Return of the King style march on the Black Gate in order to give Rand time to do his thing, it would make a lot more sense on both sides (Demandred sees a blunder and jumps on it with both feet).

 

Splitting the trollocs up was what the Light side was expecting and had taking precautions against- we saw Rand destroy 10,000 trollocs in minutes. Without channelers to protect them, and with days and days of marching and dealing with terrain, multiple trolloc armies are just meat. You jump in a handful of channelers at a river crossing etc, wipe out as many as you can, jump away, rinse and repeat. Then bring in a cavalry or Aiel force when they are ready to break and run them down.  

[Cybertrolloc]

This is one of the few interesting areas of conversation left to me r.e. WoT, and part of the reason I stuck with the series (I expected RJ would have come up with something more interesting or at least have hand-waved away better).

 

The problem is thinking about how TLB would be fought given what we've seen channelers do (mostly without knowing what they were doing), I don't see much besides cower in Steddings and the first side that figures out how to nuke them wins :)

Edited April 4, 2013 by Cybertrolloc

[A Duke]

So the two remaining hordes that descended on Merrillor were both in the Borderlands. Tar Valon is farther from Merrilor than Merrilor is from The Blight

 

I went and checked with the maps and used this post:

http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=7771

 

I didn't check the books so Lan's location is not clear, yes soutren border of Shainar, but where exactly? In any case, it could have turned to ravage Arafel.

The army the AS were engaging is considerably closer to TV than to FoM. Alternatively it could have turned to Arafel as well.

An even better alternative could have been to use the ways to go to Caemlyn.

 

considering the distances traveled by the host that originated in Caemlyn and the one that traveled from Arafel-Kandor border to FoM the Trollocs can march quite a distance.

In tGH the travel was along the Spine of the world, it makes sense that it's almost completely devoid of people. However the Trollocs could have chosen to go to TV along the river (same one the girls sailed on in tGH). That path has to be much more populated as it is along the main trade route connecting those 3 borderlands to the south through TV.

 

http://ramblesnonsense.com/images/13ToM-Final.jpg

 

Now if Merrilor was explained more explicitly to be a Return of the King style march on the Black Gate in order to give Rand time to do his thing, it would make a lot more sense on both sides

 

Except in Return of the King the purpose was to vacate Mordor, a similar purpose was already fulfilled at the time in WoT.

 

Splitting the trollocs up was what the Light side was expecting and had taking precautions against- we saw Rand destroy 10,000 trollocs in minutes. Without channelers to protect them, and with days and days of marching and dealing with terrain, multiple trolloc armies are just meat. You jump in a handful of channelers at a river crossing etc, wipe out as many as you can, jump away, rinse and repeat. Then bring in a cavalry or Aiel force when they are ready to break and run them down.

 

 

I guess I wasn't clear enough, when I said scatter I meant just that. Break the 10k into small groups of 10-50 and send them to ravage the small falk, really should have been done in Cairhien and Andor for max effect (guerilla fighting to a point). Only to later converge on a city like Cairhien/small towns like Aringill in the area. To take this down in time the light would have had to send much larger force, or accept butchered people and destroyed cities.

 

I am Ignoring a bit what the Light could have done because (considering the shadow would have acted out the same way) if they would have focused effort (tactics/strategy 101) the LB would have been won quickly and with minimal casualties. I accept that the tempering with the great captains prevented that (quite a gamble by the shadow). Still Mat should have hit each remaining army independently and not done the shadow the biggest favor imaginable and waited for them to converge.

 

 

The problem is thinking about how TLB would be fought given what we've seen channelers do (mostly without knowing what they were doing), I don't see much besides cower in Steddings and the first side that figures out how to nuke them wins :)

 

That's not true, channelers while powerful have finite power. yeah, if you put modern artilery + bombers + machine + tanks against forces that didn't adopt you get Germany Blitzkrieg on Poland in WW2. Outdated tactics&weapons = slaughter (like trollocs going solo against channelers), Doesn't mean you can't adjust as best possible. Battle fields should become larger and more disperse to diminish the damage channelers can do with one weave. Which in turn leads to longer battles, again something that works against channerls.

 

edit: another example might be operation Desert storm.

Edited April 4, 2013 by A Duke

[Muad Cheade]

There was only one general from the war of power in the last battle.

There were multiple generals. LTT was just the commander-in-chief.

[Aulduron]

I was talking about Demandred.

[mbuehner]

I didn't check the books so Lan's location is not clear, yes soutren border of Shainar, but where exactly? In any case, it could have turned to ravage Arafel.

The army the AS were engaging is considerably closer to TV than to FoM. Alternatively it could have turned to Arafel as well.

Merrilor is at the bottom corner Shienar where it meets Arafel. The AS army is fighting on the border between Kandor and Arafel.  Anywhere on the border of Kandor and Arafel is closer to Merrilor than to TV (the distance from the Borderlands to TV, much less any other point of civilization, is significant). As far as Arafel, they were surrounded on 3 sides and could have fallen no matter what the light did had Demandred decided to do so. it would have been a mistake as the fortresses of Arafel could have been the anvil and the combined forces of the light, rested for a few days, the hammer to take them in the rear.

 

 

An even better alternative could have been to use the ways to go to Caemlyn.

 

I agree, and another consequence of nerfing trolloc numbers was to stop the flow of trollocs into Caemlyn. I believe Sanderson originally had Perrin closing the waygate from the inside, but that is got cut from the book. Thats probably the disconnect.

 

 

considering the distances traveled by the host that originated in Caemlyn and the one that traveled from Arafel-Kandor border to FoM the Trollocs can march quite a distance.

That's very true, and they also march too fast when we aren't looking. I call it the Quantum Theorem of Trolloc Marching. Nobel is pending.

 

 

In tGH the travel was along the Spine of the world, it makes sense that it's almost completely devoid of people. However the Trollocs could have chosen to go to TV along the river (same one the girls sailed on in tGH). That path has to be much more populated as it is along the main trade route connecting those 3 borderlands to the south through TV.

True, we're still talking small pockets of people, by definition not enough to support a nation-state. Assumedly most of them would flee.

 

Except in Return of the King the purpose was to vacate Mordor, a similar purpose was already fulfilled at the time in WoT.

The purpose was to give the main character a chance to win the war that would otherwise be hopeless. To me that's the only valid reason to fight a fight like Merrilor given the advantages (travelling mostly) of the light in a prolonged, mobile war.

 

Break the 10k into small groups of 10-50 and send them to ravage the small falk, really should have been done in Cairhien and Andor for max effect (guerilla fighting to a point). Only to later converge on a city like Cairhien/small towns like Aringill in the area.

Bloody minded, and a nightmare for the light, true. But how does that accomplish Demandreds goals of conquest? The trollocs would simply be hunted down over weeks and months and destroyed piecemeal. Anywhere they converged for a major attack would be an easy target for channelers. Moreover this would bring the Aiel back into the conversation, as they would be singularly excellent at hunting down and destroying small isolated bands of trollocs.

[shortkut]

Write a quantum theory about Jurassic Park first. You can feel a T-Rex walk from like a mile away until it is time for him to save you from raptors then he tiptoes like a ninja

[A Duke]

Merrilor is at the bottom corner Shienar where it meets Arafel. The AS army is fighting on the border between Kandor and Arafel.  Anywhere on the border of Kandor and Arafel is closer to Merrilor than to TV (the distance from the Borderlands to TV, much less any other point of civilization, is significant).

 

You're right, I was wrong on the position of FoM, however it's not a bit difference between Kandor Army-FoM to Kandor Army-TV, seems like roughly 15%.

 

it would have been a mistake as the fortresses of Arafel could have been the anvil and the combined forces of the light, rested for a few days, the hammer to take them in the rear

Not really, the Shadow could have brought both of their armies there at roughly the same time. Had the Light choose to engage they would have had less time to rest and prepare, moreover it would not have been over terrain the Light has chosen, learned and set up for the combat.

Comparing the size of the Shadow armies to those that guard the fortress, plus throwing in channelers to negate the walls, I would say that only a fraction of the Shadow armies would have been needed to engage the fortress. Freeing the rest of the armies to take advantageous position in the vicinity.

without knowing the lay of the land in the area it's hard to make good estimates, but I am pretty confident that there the Shadow could field the trollocs much better then funneling them through narrow passages like on the FoM.

 

That's very true, and they also march too fast when we aren't looking. I call it the Quantum Theorem of Trolloc Marching. Nobel is pending.

 

:-) Just out of curiosity, is there an estimate how fast did they get in the extreme (km/day)?

 

"True, we're still talking small pockets of people, by definition not enough to support a nation-state. Assumedly most of them would flee."

 

I am not sure, Almoth Plain seems to have plenty of people, and so does the TR, both are not actually a nation state nor a province of a kingdom (at the start of the books anyway).

I am not sure how many could successfully escape should the trollocs use some advance hunting (and scouting) parties.

 

The purpose was to give the main character a chance to win the war that would otherwise be hopeless. To me that's the only valid reason to fight a fight like Merrilor given the advantages (travelling mostly) of the light in a prolonged, mobile war.

 

I agree.

 

But how does that accomplish Demandreds goals of conquest

 

The Shadow can't conquer in the LB, it has no benefit of holding land as the population would either flee or be killed. The Shadow wasn't going for conquest. I am not sure what was Demandred's purpose, that's part of the incompetency.

 

The trollocs would simply be hunted down over weeks and months and destroyed piecemeal. Anywhere they converged for a major attack would be an easy target for channelers. Moreover this would bring the Aiel back into the conversation, as they would be singularly excellent at hunting down and destroying small isolated bands of trollocs.

 

This was an idea of a tactics to use in case the shadow's strategy would have been to go for a large battle at FoM. Forcing the Light to send forces away from FoM (must be larger than the trolloc forces since they need to cover a lot of ground, to find and engage the trollocs) is a win for the Shadow.

How would the channelers know to show up where the shadow converges? are you going to hold a gateway capable channeler in every small town to summon reinforcements? the Light doesn't even do this with large cities (at least not shown). Intelligence is invaluable, especially when fighting in a-symmetrical warfare.

 

As for the Aiel, I expect the Shadow to have some kind of minimum competency to have known that the Aiel were sent to SG.

Edited April 9, 2013 by A Duke

[mbuehner]

 

 

it would have been a mistake as the fortresses of Arafel could have been the anvil and the combined forces of the light, rested for a few days, the hammer to take them in the rear

Not really, the Shadow could have brought both of their armies there at roughly the same time. Had the Light choose to engage they would have had less time to rest and prepare, moreover it would not have been over terrain the Light has chosen, learned and set up for the combat.

Comparing the size of the Shadow armies to those that guard the fortress, plus throwing in channelers to negate the walls, I would say that only a fraction of the Shadow armies would have been needed to engage the fortress. Freeing the rest of the armies to take advantageous position in the vicinity.

without knowing the lay of the land in the area it's hard to make good estimates, but I am pretty confident that there the Shadow could field the trollocs much better then funneling them through narrow passages like on the FoM.

 

All pretty much true, (except the the forces of light would have a bit more time to rest as at least the Shienar army would have further to march) but the point is if the Shadow wanted Arafel badly enough, they could have done all that even given the gathering at Merrillor. But they didn't, because Arafel wasn't worth the time and effort... hence it would be wise (if ruthless) for the Light to encourage it (anything bad for the enemy must be good for me, in this case wasting time on Arafel). Theyd sacrificed Kandor, Caemlyn, and Shienar in the interests of strategy, no point in not sacrificing Arafel if it meant a great chance to win the war by giving the light a few days to rest their channelers and regroup.

 

 

 

 

That's very true, and they also march too fast when we aren't looking. I call it the Quantum Theorem of Trolloc Marching. Nobel is pending.

:-) Just out of curiosity, is there an estimate how fast did they get in the extreme (km/day)?

I'll look but I seem to recall it in the neighborhood of working out to 50 miles a day or something like it. Across mixed terrains, crossing rivers etc, for many days, without supplies.

 

 

"True, we're still talking small pockets of people, by definition not enough to support a nation-state. Assumedly most of them would flee."

 

I am not sure, Almoth Plain seems to have plenty of people, and so does the TR, both are not actually a nation state nor a province of a kingdom (at the start of the books anyway).

I am not sure how many could successfully escape should the trollocs use some advance hunting (and scouting) parties.

I'd imagine most if not all of them had fled to population centers when the world started going crazy, and certainly would have when news that Kandor was toast and the AS army defeated reached them. Thats an isolated spot to be in and TV is the closest city, and would seem to be the safest place you're likely to find.

 

How would the channelers know to show up where the shadow converges? are you going to hold a gateway capable channeler in every small town to summon reinforcements? the Light doesn't even do this with large cities (at least not shown). Intelligence is invaluable, especially when fighting in a-symmetrical warfare.

 

As for the Aiel, I expect the Shadow to have some kind of minimum competency to have known that the Aiel were sent to SG.

The light seemed to have hit upon some excellent intelligence tools (flying lizards, gateways in the skies, not to mention channelers that can sense them at a distance).

 

And the vast majority of the Aiel were at Merrilor (or more accurately put, disappeared completely). Only those sworn to the Dragon and wise ones went to SG, all of the clans and their chiefs fought in the south (which is why Rhuarc had to resign as a Chief to go to SG).

[szilard]

When I re-read threads like that, it occurs to me every time that the best resolution I ever made was to not read anything by sanderson. Even the minimini samples of his wotrilogy left a traumatic experience in me.

[Mik]

When I re-read threads like that, it occurs to me every time that the best resolution I ever made was to not read anything by sanderson. Even the minimini samples of his wotrilogy left a traumatic experience in me.

Best. Decision. Ever.

[wotfan4472]

The Aiel did not disappear. They were all at Thakandar fighting. The Last Battle was not the only front.

[mbuehner]

The Aiel did not disappear. They were all at Thakandar fighting. The Last Battle was not the only front.

 

*Only the Aiel sworn to the Dragon and the WOs were at Thakandar.

[wotfan4472]

Which means all of the clans, since they were sworn to Rand. The only exception should have been the Aiel that swore to Perrin. Thakandar was much more important than Merrilor, since Rand was fighting there. I found the Thakandar campaign much more interesting to read.

 

I actually now think that it was a mistake for Sammael and Be lal to be removed early. These two alive at the LB would give a very tight conflict. With Samnael defending Thakandar and Be'lal invading the south.

Edited July 2, 2017 by wotfan4472

[Sabio]

Samm had to die, Rand needed Illian and Samm wasn't the type to give up somehting he owned.  So one had to go.

 

I say it was a waste to have Aran'gar die such a pointless death.  With Semi dead she should of been sent to Seanchean to take over the rebel forces there and bring them to the LB.  Always thought it would of given the LB more of a OMG we might lose feel if two Seanchean armies had to fight each other.  Also would of gotten rid of the pointless Tuon leaves to save her, but she will come back later.  Seems like a dumb plan at the LB to send away the biggest army to simply try and save Tuon as you are supposedly barely hanging on.