NPR A Memory of Light Excerpt - "A Dangerous Place"

[Graendal probably did it]

Squeeee that is all.

 

Go androl!

[ArveduiEreinion]

 

Anyone else think Androl was going to open a gateway in someone's chest? Can't wait for that particular deathgate....

 yes, that's what I was thinking too. He clearly tried to use it as a weapon  so what else could he have been trying to do? he doesn't know the deathgate weave that Rand used in KoD but he can try to make a small gateway on top of somebody. He did use gateways creatively in "Working Leather".

 

I don't know but my thought was he trying to open a gateway inside of someone's body (brain, heart, would it matter?) If he opened it on top of them, I guess he would be going for a slicing effect? Also, would someone who was turned be unable to travel by gateway? Now, that would be interesting...

[Agitel]

 

 

Anyone else think Androl was going to open a gateway in someone's chest? Can't wait for that particular deathgate....

 yes, that's what I was thinking too. He clearly tried to use it as a weapon  so what else could he have been trying to do? he doesn't know the deathgate weave that Rand used in KoD but he can try to make a small gateway on top of somebody. He did use gateways creatively in "Working Leather".

 

I don't know but my thought was he trying to open a gateway inside of someone's body (brain, heart, would it matter?) If he opened it on top of them, I guess he would be going for a slicing effect? Also, would someone who was turned be unable to travel by gateway? Now, that would be interesting...

 

I don't think Turning would prevent them from traveling. This only twists their personality. They're not shadowspawn, or constructs.

[yoniy0]

Actually, I didn't follow that part. Did he actually try for a Gateway? Because even if it failed, everyone should've seen the weaves he used. I don't know about you, but if I were Mezar and co., that's just the sort of thing I would be waiting for, to make short work out of him.

 

Why did they let him go?

[Sentinel78]

Actually, I didn't follow that part. Did he actually try for a Gateway? Because even if it failed, everyone should've seen the weaves he used. I don't know about you, but if I were Mezar and co., that's just the sort of thing I would be waiting for, to make short work out of him.

 

Why did they let him go?

 

Because it was in public, and Taim doesn't want most of the people to know they're trapped.  I mean, Taim's gameplan is to lie to everybody that there's no division between him and Logain (that's the task he's put Mezar and Welyn to at least), so what the heck is the point of going through that effort and then publicly harass / intimidate / attack Logain's most ardent supporters?  That would call out the lie to the people he's trying to assuage of suspicion.

 

Taim doesn't have the manpower to stop a stampede of people from leaving the Black Tower; he only has a few people stationed at intervals around the perimeter; it would be easy to breach that type of enclosure with a concentrated effort, assuming you had enough people (and assuming that Taim's people also can't use gateways to bring in support when that happens, which we can't assume necessarily because there are 'keys' to the Dreamspike and maybe Taim can share the key).  

 

As far why he doesn't just start Turning people en masse, keep in mind we don't know the specifics of the 13x13 trick, but my guess it that it kills all the Fades involved, so you can't just Turn the whole Black Tower in a single night unless you have 13000 Fades lying around.  Plus, it would be very difficult to implement the 13x13 trick at the Black Tower itself because all the channelers would feel the presence of the nearby Shadowspawn (unless they were all warded which would make implementation more difficult).  So, you'd either have to kidnap people and take them to someone who knows the Dreamspike key for Traveling, or put a hood over their head and leave through one at the checkpoints where channeling is possible again.

 

So Taim could obviously have his cronies take Androl and his group, but it would be noisy and he's trying to keep everybody oblivious.  He probably figures he has nothing to lose by biding his time, unless he has sufficient outright power to quell any resistance even if organized.

[Valley of Death]

He lets Androl live because he is so weak in the power. Taim who is very strong in the power would not see Androl as a threat because of the power difference. Obviously we know that is false, but I guess its a bad side effect of being strong in the power.

 

Also, is Androl just BT filler because BS needed to show things happening at the BT before Logain showed up?

[herid]

 

Actually, I didn't follow that part. Did he actually try for a Gateway? Because even if it failed, everyone should've seen the weaves he used. I don't know about you, but if I were Mezar and co., that's just the sort of thing I would be waiting for, to make short work out of him.

Why did they let him go?

 
Good point. But it's not totally clear what they saw because Androl was trying to make a gateway and was thwarted by the dreamspike. They also pretty clearly have their own attack already planned and didn't want to rush it unless it was really necessary.
 
 

As far why he doesn't just start Turning people en masse, keep in mind we don't know the specifics of the 13x13 trick, but my guess it that it kills all the Fades involved

There is nothing in the books to support that idea. I'm quite certain this is wrong.

 

He lets Androl live because he is so weak in the power. Taim who is very strong in the power would not see Androl as a threat because of the power difference. Obviously we know that is false, but I guess its a bad side effect of being strong in the power.

Also, is Androl just BT filler because BS needed to show things happening at the BT before Logain showed up?

Androl is obviously more than just filler. It's pretty clear that he and Pevara will link and beat the dreamspike. They might use  gateways as weapons in some creative ways too. But a lot of these BT scenes DO feel like filler with the same thing being repeated and nothing happening.

[TLHansum]

 

 It's pretty clear that he and Pevara will link and beat the dreamspike.

 

That was my first thought as well.  Every time it says that Androl just doesnt have the power to push through

[Selene's Shadow]

It seems like to me like the Androl Pevara connection is just an addition to what Logain represents after bonding his two Aes Sedai.

This faction seem to be paving the way for the union between the two and at least Chapter 2 would be seen as incredibly important in the steps to such a union. 

 

And how much does Androl know about the 13x13?

Does he know everything? He seems pretty knowledgeable about stuff but that is probably a bit beyond him, especially as he wants to rescue a Logain who should have been turned already if he was being held prisoner. 

 

Also a general 13x13 question. If a person is 13x13 then becomes stilled/gentled.. is he still 13x13? 

And can he be cut off from the shadow similar to how Rand cut off Asmodean? Because that would be helpful..

[ArveduiEreinion]

Actually, I didn't follow that part. Did he actually try for a Gateway? Because even if it failed, everyone should've seen the weaves he used. I don't know about you, but if I were Mezar and co., that's just the sort of thing I would be waiting for, to make short work out of him.

 

Why did they let him go?

 

I'm fairly certain that he did try for a Gateway. Here's the quote:

 

"Everything Androl could hold—all of the One Power he could muster—flooded into him. It was minuscule compared to the others. He was the weakest man in the room; the newest of recruits could manage more than he could."

 

Then...

 

"Androl reached out, trying to do the one thing he could do, form a gateway. To him, this was something beyond weaves. It was just him and the Power, something intimate, something instinctive."

 

Now, why didn't Coteren take action against Androl? Two possibilities: 1. He saw the weave for a gateway and assumed nothing would come of it given the dreamspike. 2. He assumed that Androl couldn't harm him no matter what he did given how weak in the power he is.

[herid]

And how much does Androl know about the 13x13?

 

Androl doesn't know any more than we do. actually, he knows less. He just knows that people are being turned to the Shadow somehow. He doesn't know any more than that.

 

 

Does he know everything? He seems pretty knowledgeable about stuff but that is probably a bit beyond him, especially as he wants to rescue a Logain who should have been turned already if he was being held prisoner. 

 

Also a general 13x13 question. If a person is 13x13 then becomes stilled/gentled.. is he still 13x13? 

And can he be cut off from the shadow similar to how Rand cut off Asmodean? Because that would be helpful..

 

Nothing is known about whether or not turning via 13x13 can be undone. One can hope that it can. It would be really unfair otherwise. There is one possibly relevant comment by RJ on the issue

 

 

 

Interview: Jul 19th, 2005

TOR Questions of the Week Part III (Verbatim)

Week 15 Question

When a channeler is forcibly turned to the Dark, is his/her former personality lost to eternity? Are they in a permanent state of mindless Compulsion? Furthermore, can a channeler forcibly turned to the Dark return to the Light unaided?

Robert Jordan

They are not in a mindless state of Compulsion. Their former personality is twisted, the darker elements that everyone has to some degree elevated while what might be called the good elements are largely suppressed. I don't mean things like courage, which is useful even to villains, but they are unlikely to be very charitable, for example, and forget any altruistic impulses. Call it being turned into a mirror image of yourself in many ways. It is very unlikely that a channeler forcibly turned to the Shadow could find a way back to the Light unaided. For one reason, by virtue of the twisting he or she had undergone, it is very unlikely that he or she would have any desire to do so.

 

 

 

[Agitel]

When challenged in a chapter near the end of ToM, Androl can barely nick a stone using the stone exploding weave. Coteren likely felt pretty safe. A well placed gateway could do some damage, but Androl can't make one, and I doubt Coteren even thought of using a gateway in that way anyway or knew what Androl was trying. That thinking hasn't gotten around yet. Androl just makes gateways so well that I'm sure he's been more innovative with their potential than anyone else in the BT.

[ArveduiEreinion]

When challenged in a chapter near the end of ToM, Androl can barely nick a stone using the stone exploding weave. Coteren likely felt pretty safe. A well placed gateway could do some damage, but Androl can't make one, and I doubt Coteren even thought of using a gateway in that way anyway or knew what Androl was trying. That thinking hasn't gotten around yet. Androl just makes gateways so well that I'm sure he's been more innovative with their potential than anyone else in the BT.

 

Ah, excellent. I remembered there being a reference to Androl barely being able to knick something but I couldn't remember what it was. I'd imagine it was fairly well-known just how weak Androl was in this particular regard...

[shortkut]

I can see androl using gateways to block fireballs and other attacks. Someone shoots a fireball at him, he opens a gateshield to send it somewhere else

[Orderofolde]

I have to say I truly enjoyed this excerpt. And to comment if this was full chapter? Doubtful, the thing cant have been more than 2 pages. 10 days to go, can't wait, wish I knew how to deal with the wait now.

It is only a small portion of the chapter.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Responding to a few things. 

 

1. Re: 13x13, Androl knows about the 13x13, Pevara told him about it in the prologue/chapter 1/2 or whatever. He knows as much as the reader does about it at this point. 

 

2. Why they didn't kill Androl: 

    a) In general: It's a typical villain theme. They overlook the weak guy. It is consistent with BT/Channeler thinking. We see it with their scorn of normal weapons. We see all channelers concerned with strength. Asha'man are promoted by strength/skill. Thus Androl was demoted. Same with the Aes Sedai. So it is typical of channelers to disregard weak ones like we see with Daigain. Add the fact that they are Darkfriends and evil - arrogance makes them even more dismissive. They don't think that any resistance will work even if Androl is suspected of leading it. They are overconfident. 

    

     b) When he tried to make a Gateway: I supsect they know about Androl being a danger with Gateways, but they know about the Dreamspike, or at least they are confident that (if they don't know why) that Gateways would not work. 

 

 

 

"Don't waste your time with the pageboy, Welyn," Coteren said from behind. Mishraile stepped aside to make room for this third newcomer. The bulky, beady-eyed man pressed a hand against Androl's chest and shoved him aside as he passed. "Oh, wait. You can't play pageboy anymore, can you?"

Coteren knew it wouldn't work, so he didn't care. 

 

 

3. I wonder about Weylen and Mezar's  comments. Are they just straight up lies? Obviously they is lying about Rand and Logain, however, the comment about Arafel. 

 

 

 

 

Mezar laughed, and Androl heard Welyn stand up behind him. "Ah, there you are! I was telling them you'd talk about defenses in Arafel."

 

"Come listen," Mezar said. "This will be important for the Last Battle."

 

I wonder if there is something to this comment. Arafel has been quiet, assumed overrun by the Shadow. Also, it might be worth something that Rand thinks Alanna dashed off to the north - he suspects Arafel after receiving the letter from Verin. 

[NotTaveren]

From my reading, it sounded like he didn't even need any more strength in the one power to beat the dream spike. Just a bit of will-power, a bit of sanity, and a situation in which it wouldn't be suicidal to try it. I think he just backed down, rather than failed. It does seem likely that they will form a circle, since that's the sensible thing to do, but I'm not sure it's necessary.

[herid]

Responding to a few things. 

 

1. Re: 13x13, Androl knows about the 13x13, Pevara told him about it in the prologue/chapter 1/2 or whatever. He knows as much as the reader does about it at this point. 

 

 

good find. I totally forgot about it.

 

 

2. Why they didn't kill Androl: 

    a) In general: It's a typical villain theme. They overlook the weak guy. It is consistent with BT/Channeler thinking. We see it with their scorn of normal weapons. We see all channelers concerned with strength. Asha'man are promoted by strength/skill. Thus Androl was demoted. Same with the Aes Sedai. So it is typical of channelers to disregard weak ones like we see with Daigain. Add the fact that they are Darkfriends and evil - arrogance makes them even more dismissive. They don't think that any resistance will work even if Androl is suspected of leading it. They are overconfident. 

    

     b) When he tried to make a Gateway: I supsect they know about Androl being a danger with Gateways, but they know about the Dreamspike, or at least they are confident that (if they don't know why) that Gateways would not work. 

 

 

 

"Don't waste your time with the pageboy, Welyn," Coteren said from behind. Mishraile stepped aside to make room for this third newcomer. The bulky, beady-eyed man pressed a hand against Androl's chest and shoved him aside as he passed. "Oh, wait. You can't play pageboy anymore, can you?"

Coteren knew it wouldn't work, so he didn't care. 

 

 

3. I wonder about Weylen and Mezar's  comments. Are they just straight up lies? Obviously they is lying about Rand and Logain, however, the comment about Arafel. 

 

 

 

>>

 

Mezar laughed, and Androl heard Welyn stand up behind him. "Ah, there you are! I was telling them you'd talk about defenses in Arafel."

 

"Come listen," Mezar said. "This will be important for the Last Battle."

 

I wonder if there is something to this comment. Arafel has been quiet, assumed overrun by the Shadow. Also, it might be worth something that Rand thinks Alanna dashed off to the north - he suspects Arafel after receiving the letter from Verin. 

 

 

It's a weird comment to be sure given that Mezar was addressing Androl. I suspect Verin sent Alanna to deal with the Waygate on the border of Arafel and the Blight that is being used in the Caemlyn attack. This might be related to what Mezar is talking about here too.

[Elan Tedronai]

talking and talking and talking since knife of dreams

 

brandon and harriet sure milked the black tower standoff to hell and back

[yoniy0]

To be clear, I didn't ask why they don't go after Androl in general. I get that. The thing is, they were clearly goading him here, daring him to take a stand. And by his own account, they'd have destroyed him utterly had he done it. Except that, you know, he did channel at them--however ineffectively--and they didn't do anything about it. Odd, that's all.

[HighSimms]

To be clear, I didn't ask why they don't go after Androl in general. I get that. The thing is, they were clearly goading him here, daring him to take a stand. And by his own account, they'd have destroyed him utterly had he done it. Except that, you know, he did channel at them--however ineffectively--and they didn't do anything about it. Odd, that's all.

perhaps they have other plans for him. as far as we know, they may mean to eliminate the resistance tonight, given all the logain talk. i think he senses the DF are preparing to make a final push, i sense it as well.

[aunt_pol]

 

 

As far why he doesn't just start Turning people en masse, keep in mind we don't know the specifics of the 13x13 trick, but my guess it that it kills all the Fades involved, so you can't just Turn the whole Black Tower in a single night unless you have 13000 Fades lying around.

 

Dude no way could it kill the Fades. They're too valuable to throw away like that. If that was the case only the absolute best of the best channellers would be taken and turned, not mid level toadies and Taim's sycophants.

[Aiyen kin Leary]

 

 

 

As far why he doesn't just start Turning people en masse, keep in mind we don't know the specifics of the 13x13 trick, but my guess it that it kills all the Fades involved, so you can't just Turn the whole Black Tower in a single night unless you have 13000 Fades lying around.

Dude no way could it kill the Fades. They're too valuable to throw away like that. If that was the case only the absolute best of the best channellers would be taken and turned, not mid level toadies and Taim's sycophants.

 

We don't know how many Fades there are.  Someone was fine with sending hundreds of Fades after Rand at Algarin's Manor, and they had to know that it probably wasn't going to work.  Even if he hadn't managed to defeat 100,000 shadowspawn, what's to stop him from Traveling to safety?  Remember, Brandon has said that there are "an order of magnitude/orders of magnitude" (the signing report wasn't clear which) more Trollocs than could be supported in the Blight, which means incredible numbers of Myrddraal too (since they're the children of Trollocs).  There has to be a reason they haven't simply started Turning channellers right and left, and lack of Fades might well be it.

[Deroi]

Who's Linda Taglieri btw?

[Olver_is_a_Forsaken]

To those who say "why Arafel?", if I had to guess, it will be a place of notable action during the last book.

I say this because Terez said there was 1 new map in the book.
I think it will be a Shol Arbela city map. Why?
 
-I think the map will be of a city (not of Shara/Seanchan)
-No character has been to that city onscreen
-No character has been to that country onscreen
-It won't be Mayene City (too far from the blight-this being the other country no character has been to onscreen)
-On the map it is the closest city to Shayol Ghul. Fitting.

 

Who's Linda Taglieri btw?

 
She runs the http://13depository.blogspot.ca/